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Official news: The Endgame Reimagnined
The_Korrigan
Member RarePosts: 3,459
http://https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined
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In the past, we’ve talked about how in Guild Wars 2 we designed the game to avoid a common problem in many MMOs: grinding through chunks of boring, repetitive content to get to the occasional pockets of fun. With Guild Wars 2, we wanted the entire gameplay experience to be something that players enjoyed, regardless of how much time they could dedicate.
When we looked at the concept of “endgame” for Guild Wars 2, we designed it the same way. We didn’t want the endgame to be something you could only experience after a hundred hours of gameplay or after you reached some arbitrary number. We wanted it to be something that players got to experience every step along the way, spread out across the entire world of Tyria, so we’ve introduced game elements that you’d normally associate with “endgame” at every level and every possible opportunity.
Starting with each player’s first introductory adventure, we pit them against large-scale boss encounters—one for each race—just to whet their appetites and give them a taste of the boss battles to come. We wanted to show players that this really is just the beginning. We want the experiences that players will have while progressing through the game to be a journey that they take with their character, something that they will remember and cherish.
Sure, once your character reaches max level, we’ve created new and interesting ways to challenge you as a player, but we didn’t want to force you to master an entirely new subset of the game.
Our goal with Guild Wars 2 was to continue to build upon what we’ve shown you before while finding new and interesting ways to engage you as a player, regardless of your level. Each new experience, new dungeon, and new giant boss is a chance for us to layer on more difficulty, or teach you an interesting aspect about your profession and what you can do when you combine forces with other players. Guild Wars 2 is a game about banding together with friends and complete strangers to accomplish great things in a world ruled by uncertainty and challenge.
For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.
For people who enjoy massive encounters where large numbers of players band together to take down epic monsters, we created our giant bosses, which are scattered throughout the world. These massive dynamic events usually come at the end of one of our meta-event chains, and they reward players with a challenging encounter and a loot chest for their accomplishments. You’ve already seen a few of these behemoths in our intro story, but later in the game, these giant bosses really come at you with gloves off.
But the concept of “endgame” isn’t restricted to a few specific encounters and monsters; we have multiple paths and a variety of different content for players of all kinds. For people who enjoy crafting, we added legendary weapons that use rare components gathered from multiple game types—they’re created using the Mystic Forge. The final reward at the end of this epic crafting path is a visual masterpiece: a weapon with a unique appearance and special effects that are sure to make you stand out in a crowd.
For explorers and completionists, we added the idea of “world completion,” which involves completing renown regions, Vistas, skill challenges, waypoints, and points of interest for each of the maps in Tyria. We keep each map interesting thanks to the level adjustment system, which removes the ability for higher-level characters to enter lower-level maps and trivialize the content. You’ll still be more powerful in lower-level zones because you have more traits, skills, and gear, but the level adjustment system will insure that the monsters give you a proper fight.
With all the branches in the personal storylines and the sheer number of different stories available to players of each race, Guild Wars 2 has a lot of replayability for those looking to explore Tyria from a different perspective or experience new stories.
As players reach the max level of 80, the dynamic events become larger, the battles more spectacular, the circumstances more dire. Each of the high-level maps in the corrupted land of Orr contain battles on a grand scale against Zhaitan’s forces, an epic war with shifting fortunes and frontlines.
As you can see, we’ve taken the idea of “endgame” content beyond the traditional model and have infused it in all levels of the game, while adding enough variety to keep players with a wide array of interests engaged.
The launch of Guild Wars 2 is just the start. With the game now out in the hands of the players, we can focus our efforts to adding new types of events, new dungeons, new bosses, new rewards, and new places for players to explore. Together, our journey is just now beginning, and I hope to see you in-game.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Comments
I get what he is saying, and why he feels the need to underline it.
My 'endgame' will be doing the exp mode on all the dungeons (I have only done the story on the way up), getting 100% world, completing all the jumping puzzles that I have missed, crafting, and WvW.
After this, I will level two new characters through their stories to gain the Priory and Whisper badges for my front page (and to see how the story plays out for them).
Plenty for me to be going on with tbh, and I am sure they have new content and events that were not quite done for launch already on the boiler. I am not even 80 yet (I have a 40 and a 60).
Nice "speech". Too bad it's so far away from the real truth. It makes me laugh when I read the comments on facebook
I'm really trying to like GW2. I'm sure many of you like it a lot already. But how long until I get burned?
Farming the same "dynamic" events tends to get to the thing you do in almost any mmo: "grind". I really don't wanna craft at the moment so I would like to level up from quests and personal story. Sadly, area quests give you too little XP. After doing the daily tasks, gathering, exploring, doing level events + "dynamic" (repeated) events, I feel the need to repeat those since killing mobs won't help you level up anytime soon. Please feel free to let me know if there are other ways to do it (that evade me atm) besides crafting and PVP.
Also the fact that you get the best gear for your level means absoutely nothing. No progress at all. Just that you can go on par with mobs of the same level. That for me, is very very sad. Balancing? I'd say that has a serious downside also. Where is the joy of finding a nice powerful weapon that devastates my foes? Not here, since it's obviously... balanced.
The world of Tyria is beautiful so far, and it brings a lot of joy to me. The Story is nice and makes me want to continue it. But now I'm starting to recall a user comment on this forums a long time ago which sounded something like:
"Guild wars 2 won't be revolutionary. It will just use a nice stroke brush to mask all the grind and routine you expect in an mmo."
Same here, plenty of things left to do on my main (80 now) and a lot to do on my alts too.
This game is more like Asheron's Call than like the "EQ/WoW model", they are only confirming what they have already said.
I don't know what you're doing wrong, but there's something you do wrong. I'm leading a guild of 75 members, and none has problems finding NEW content to level. We have different play styles too, some have almost maxed out crafting before max level, others have just barely touched it yet (there's one 80 with 27 and 43 points in his crafting skills).
Things you may want to keep in mind... there's a whole world to explore, you aren't limited to your precise level area, and you aren't limited to your race's area either. Not to mention changing zone brings variety - sick of farmlands? Go enjoy some winter sports in the Norn area!
I personally got to 80 without repeating a single dynamic event twice - or well, if it happened, it was not intentional, just because I was passing by doing something else and it happened at that moment so I participated, and that didn't happen often (maybe 4 or 5 times on the way to 80, not more).
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I've hit 100% completion. I have one level 80 and one level 7x with 4 maxed professions. Now playing at a much more casual level.
I mean. there is stuff to do here and there. But DE farming isn't that fun - Running dungeons over and over isn't worthwhile since you only get weapon/armor skins that don't look that great.
You would have to play at Korean levels or buy gold with gems to get a legendary - though I'm sure world first has happened or will happen soon.
Luckily the game is free and WvW and sPvP are fun to do for an hour or so each day
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Smells like preemptive damage control based on not wanting players to leave early. Maybe too many are already leaving? I wouldn't be surprised.
No matter how pretty a picture they want to paint of the "massive" amount of activities at cap - the truth is that only the legendary/visual upgrade grind is significant in terms of time required. The rest will be exhausted in a few weeks, after cap, by all but the most casual. Then there's doing WvW over and over for those ok with not getting meaningful rewards for their efforts.
Sorry, but the game isn't made for longterm play - and if Arenanet didn't deliberately plan for that, they're simply incompetent as designers.
The post by ArenaNet was a direct response to certain professional reviewers who don't understand GW2's endgame. Several have incorrectly stated that there is no endgame, likely because they believe that the only possible endgame in the genre is a "traditional" raid grind and vertical gear treadmill. Hopefully this article (plus the many, many other times this has been explained) will help the hopelessly dense and intentionally obtuse among the community and professional reviewers understand that GW2 does indeed (or at least CAN) continue to be fun for a long time after your first character hits 80. The only difference is that there's no bait-and-switch where the only worthwhile play starts at max level. This game is fun from the start, and you just keep playing the way you enjoy even after max. There's plenty to do.
Also with free content updates being confirmed by ArenaNet, and expansions certainly on the way...if someone enjoys the game it's highly unlikely they will run out of new things to do. If someone doesn't like the game, that's fine...but blaming it on "lack of endgame" doesn't fly. Just because it's different, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Wow, that's pretty hardcore!
My gaming blog
Endgame consists of
o_O. It's a B2P MMO, how is "too many leaving" is even possible?
Ummm... DAoC was/is considered by many the pinnacle of MMORPG combat, and their PvP had no rewards whatsoever for a very long time... I have a strange recollection that people did it because they 'enjoyed' it?
The elephant in the room? a lot of MMO players are incapable of longterm play...
Beyond that, Anet have time to develop more plans/content for their endgame. Whilst SWTOR had to "fix things before the subs run out", Anet don't have that limitation. If Anet resolve Bob's "issue" in 5 months, Bob can just login and see whether he likes it...
Having more stories will help people that want/need direction
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
What this guy says is the endgame most people are experiencing right now.
I really hate how arenanet and everyone else is throwing out the term endgame. To most people, endgame is what you do at level 80. Usually its when the game comes into its own and you can set goals for yourself and strive for them. Arenanet wants the whole game to be this, and it does. Leveling and seeing everything in the game it truly is a wonderful and enjoyable game. But once you hit 80 it changes drastically. Its painful at 80 when you realize what you can and can't do. You can set goals for yourself, but if you aren't enjoying what your doing, why are you playing the game? I find I am asking myself this question a lot as of late. Its like they tried too hard to make the whole game enjoyable, then when you hit max level it goes downhill and downhill hard.
Its hard to pinpoint what is wrong with the game, but something is wrong. I just wonder if patches and content updates will fix it. All I know is its hard for me to actually enjoy the game at max level.
The game is out for 20 days (including early access). I'm level 51 with 60 hours played and 25% map completion. I currently only play the PvE part and level my crafting with gathered materials. That means 3 full hours a day, every day, 20 days in a row. Am I so casual then? I don't think so...
At this rate, of 3 hours playing every day, I have another 15 days before I'll be max level. I'll probably need another 180 hours = 60 days for my map to complete from here on. I still haven't done WvW or sPvP. I'll easily enjoy that for another 60 days. I still have to do explorable mode dungeons then... 8 dungeons, x 3 hours for a run = 8 days to do them all once. Doing them about 5 times each still isn't a grind since each of them gives 3 different paths... equals 40 days added for doing the dungeons.
So, currently I have 20 days played, 60 days more for map completion and getting max level meanwhile. And another 60 days after that to finally take a look at WvW and sPvP. And another 40 days to step into the explorable dungeon part. That means, I'm having 180 days of play on 1 character alone... we are at 20 days now. 180 day's that's 6 months of playing 3 hours a day every day. On 1 character. Since I'm realistic, by that time I will have gathered enough gold, karma, and materials to craft my a full exotics set so I will have hit the power plateau without extra effort.
I also plan to do the story line on 3 characters (to see the other story lines from order of whispers and the priory) so that's another 35 days to level each of these 2 alt characters to 80 and stop right there when I have done my personal story line (without doing map completion or WvW & sPvP & dungeons on these characters). So total it adds 70 more days.
If i'm by that time still playing GW2 every day for 3 hours (which I think would be pretty sick) I will start on creating my other planned characters to have a character of lvl 80 for each of the classes. Again experiencing other story lines but maybe not to the end because I might level them partially in WvW too this time. That's 5 more characters going just to level 80... taking me 35 days (= 105 hours) each. This again totals at 175 days.
Final math:
- main character = 180 days, lvl 80, story completion, map completion 100%, WvW, sPvP, expl. dungeons (540 hours)
- 2nd & 3rd character = 70 days, lvl 80, story completion (210 hours)
- 5 other alts for class completion = 175 days, lvl 80, mix of PvE & WvW (525 hours)
TOTAL = 1275 hours played in little over a year, playing every day +3 hours a day.
And then I haven't even done the most time consuming part yet... grinding the legendary weapons. Or taking new content in mind that will be released in the next year. Or concidered the expantions that will follow for GW2. Or even taking the time to socialize with people around you, attend player driven events (I'm on an unonfficial RP server), or spend time on mini games.
How can anyone say this game isn't made for longtime play? If you don't see it, then it's because you don't want to see it or you just don't like the game. For those that do enjoy the game (and believe me there are plenty) there's -SHITLOADS- of stuff to do.
PS: In this planning I haven't grinded for anything... not for Karma, not for PvP badges, not vor dungeon tokens. Yet I gathered so many hours of GW2 play. You can grind if you want to grind. You can level alts and do different stuff if you prefer that and still get +1000 hours played out of this game with the current content.
The game is still riddled with bugs, just no gamebreaking ones (*for non achievers).
The biggest issue fixed was guild chat not working, especially on prime time (kind of funny that the two latest mmorpgs released had chat related issues, the "pinnacle" of what they are really about, socialising). The second biggest issue that was fixed, again recently, was trade chat, aka auction house, aka mail between players.
Bugs that still exist and everyone will bump into them (depending on server):
+1
At last an intelligent post.
Summary:
Do the PvP or Dungeons and shut up with the complaints about the end game, we'll fix it sometime later!!!
Seriously...
So what you are really saying is "play the game like me" or you really are not getting it,right?
Let me tell you about longivity.
I've been playing Vanguard for five plus years and i still haven't done every dungeon or been everywhere in the world.I haven't played all the 19 races or played all 15 classes.I also haven't sail all the vast oceans or found all great deep sea fishing spots.
I could go on and on..
GW2 does not have a reimagined end game,that's a fallacy made up by over the top fans that really can't handle anyone having a different view of the game than they have.
Make a thread giving valid points on why you have issue with the game and the usual suspects will accuse you of trolling.
Make a thread saying that you love the game and the usual suspects will agree with you,telling you that your post is the best yet.
gw2 playerbase - hey mister anet,we dont have endgame content
mr anet - yes you do
[official] gw2 fanboys -cooooool! ty
gw2 players - hey mister anet,we still dont have endgame content
Let's internet
^ this essentially
The "explore every single jumping puzzle and dungeon" - "master all of the crafts and learn all of the recipes" and "make another character and do it all again" nonsense is NOT end-game, yet everyone keeps spouting that out whenever faced with players asking where the end-game content is.
The only end game you have is WvW zerging, normal PvP matches, grinding for karma/legendarys/etc., and... yeah that's pretty much it.
All players have different expectations out of end game. If only you don't like this kind of end game doesn't mean it is 'not' an end game.
Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..... [gets up off floor, re-reds] Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha...
Comedy gold. You just summed up everything wrong with your criticims and used them to attack others for your failure to get it with a 'reason' that has no more validity than anything they've said. What you, effectively, said was that YOU do NOT get it. You do NOT see it. And since YOU do not get it/see it, therefore, according to YOU, it can't exist.
You are, effectively, color-blind to the issue and no matter how much I explain red, if you' have protanopia, it's just another shade of green...
Never, in any MMO I have played, have I been exposed to high-level type encounters in starter areas. In GW2 I have. The Swamp. The Vile Maw. The Reactor. I haven't hit the ones in the Sylvari or Charr areas. Just bad luck, really. But they're there. And when I was there, I saw people who were different races flood in to play those encounters. Because they, too, 'get it.' Just like I 'get it.' Just like the people in my guild (which is similar to OPs guild) 'get it.'
We get it. You don't. You refuse to believe you don't get it, therefore it must not exist. That's the issue.
..but... there is grind at level 80 for karma... and there really is nothing being reimagined... the only difference is its like an MMO that is lacking content... there is nothing at end to 'change it up'....
I don't mind them trying to shift end game and all to pvp and focusing on that, but they really have done little to nothing to change end game... instead it reminds me of old MMOs that lacked end game stuff completely and had nothing to do. Heck, it wasn't bad considering people got bored and did crazy stuff like raid undercity/ironforge in another game but thats not quite possible in this game, its just stuck at wvw.
By the same logic that the nay-sayers are using, I would say that WoW has no endgame at all.
The "logic" is that if I don't like something, it doesn't exist. That's what folks are saying. They don't enjoy GW2's endgame, it's not their cup of tea, so it doesn't exist.
Therefore, since I don't like raids, WoW has no endgame. Rift has no endgame. In fact, almost no previous MMORPG has ever had an endgame. GW2 is the first game to have one, and I'm excited that MMORPGs finally have endgame, thanks to GW2.
Pretty asinine, isn't it? The truth is that games can be different, and appeal to different people. For those who don't understand or just don't prefer GW2's style of endgame...there are plenty of other games out there for you.