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Manifesto breakdown and evaluation...

caetftlcaetftl Member Posts: 358

"We founded arenanet to innovate, so guild wars 2 was our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions.  If you love mmos you'll want to check out guildwars2, if you hate mmos you'll really want to check out guildwars2."

This is basically just marketing... did they defy existing conventions?  Doesn't that mean adding new conventions that didn't exist before?  Something to think about...

 

"GW2 takes everything you loved about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world. "

I think a lot of gw1 players will agree with me that this is also just marketing, gvg was huge in gw1, as was the dual profession system, neither of which was implemented into gw2.

 

"I swung a sword, i swung a sword again, hey i swung it again.  That's great, we just don't want players to grind in gw2 knowing that no one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat."

 

For a game with so few action bar slots, I do not feel they achieved that spirit in which this claim was made, you spam abilities and wait for cds more in this game than any other mmo i have personally ever played, and I started with UO and have played every AAA launch up until now.

 

"As a structure the mmo has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero, everybody around you is doing the same thing you're doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn't care that i'm there."

 

Sounds like dynamic events and their shortcomings. 

 

"In gw2 it's your world, it's your story, you affect things around you in a very permanent way". 

 

I affect my personal instanced story, I don't affect the mmo part of the game in a permanent way at all. 

 

"You're rescuing a village, that will stay rescued, who will then remember you".

 

Nope...

 

 

Looking back at some of the things they said, it seems to just be blatantly false advertising. 

 

 

 

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Comments

  • KuppaKuppa Member UncommonPosts: 3,292
    Lets sue them!!!

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  • KareliaKarelia Member Posts: 668
    Originally posted by caetftl

    "We founded arenanet to innovate, so guild wars 2 was our opportunity to question everything, to make a game that defies existing conventions.  If you love mmos you'll want to check out guildwars2, if you hate mmos you'll really want to check out guildwars2."

    This is basically just marketing... did they defy existing conventions?  Doesn't that mean adding new conventions that didn't exist before?  Something to think about...

     

    "GW2 takes everything you loved about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world. "

    I think a lot of gw1 players will agree with me that this is also just marketing, gvg was huge in gw1, as was the dual profession system, neither of which was implemented into gw2.

     

    "I swung a sword, i swung a sword again, hey i swung it again.  That's great, we just don't want players to grind in gw2 knowing that no one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view combat."

     

    For a game with so few action bar slots, I do not feel they achieved that spirit in which this claim was made, you spam abilities and wait for cds more in this game than any other mmo i have personally ever played, and I started with UO and have played every AAA launch up until now.

     

    "As a structure the mmo has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero, everybody around you is doing the same thing you're doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn't care that i'm there."

     

    Sounds like dynamic events and their shortcomings. 

     

    "In gw2 it's your world, it's your story, you affect things around you in a very permanent way". 

     

    I affect my personal instanced story, I don't affect the mmo part of the game in a permanent way at all. 

     

    "You're rescuing a village, that will stay rescued, who will then remember you".

     

    Nope...

     

     

    Looking back at some of the things they said, it seems to just be blatantly false advertising. 

     

     

     

    well said lad!

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Member CommonPosts: 1,122
    I disagree with several pointS. I will edit this and explain later when I get out of work.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
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  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer Member Posts: 415

    Why would you breakdown the trailer? It's a hype trailer. It was made to get players hyped and excited about the game. Everyone does it.

    It's marketing? Well, yeah OP. Everything about it is. They didn't "lie" about it. If you, or anyone, believed the game would be exactly like that, that's your own fault.

    It's not false advertisement. It's called "sugar coating" and use certain words and phrases to get you pumped up. Let it go.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
    I disagree with several pointS. I will edit this and explain later when I get out of work.

     

    Which means you also agree with several points?

  • MeowheadMeowhead Member UncommonPosts: 3,716

    Everything Ree Soesbee said is talking about the personal story part of the game.  True fact.

    I've pointed this out more than once.  Like RIGHT after the manifesto came out, they had multiple interviews where they cleared up this common misconception.  They probably should have edited it into the vide oitself, just a little asterik next  to her name at all times, but they weren't lying, and they DID clear this up.

  • QuicklyScottQuicklyScott Member Posts: 433
    Oh snap son.  Remember when the fans stated that all the hype was made by all of the "haters" claiming there was a lot of hype and that no hype was made by Anet because they delivered every promise..?

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  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154
    Originally posted by caetftl

     

     

     

    Looking back at some of the things they said, it seems to just be blatantly false advertising. 

     

     

     

    OMG an MMORPG exaggerates things in prerelease hype?

    Go read the boxes for MMOs/expansions.  same as it ever was.  

    Here is a recent example:  Storm Legion will be tripling Rift's size!  Not that Rift is a large game, but given that its only 6 zones in SL those zones will have to be pretty enormous to live up to their claims.  But hey, it sounds good.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    Why would you breakdown the trailer? It's a hype trailer. It was made to get players hyped and excited about the game. Everyone does it.

    It's marketing? Well, yeah OP. Everything about it is. They didn't "lie" about it. If you, or anyone, believed the game would be exactly like that, that's your own fault.

    It's not false advertisement. It's called "sugar coating" and use certain words and phrases to get you pumped up. Let it go.

     

    Because of threads like http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/357959. That thread showed that 65.1 % of those who voted felt that Guild Wars 2 at that point lived up to the manifesto trailer.

  • heavy3p0heavy3p0 Member Posts: 16
    While I am really enjoying the game, I agree with you on all your assesments of the manifesto except combat. I enjoy how the incorporated more mobility than your typical tab targeting mmo and feel the combo system adds more depth than people give it credit for.
  • caetftlcaetftl Member Posts: 358
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    Why would you breakdown the trailer? It's a hype trailer. It was made to get players hyped and excited about the game. Everyone does it.

    It's marketing? Well, yeah OP. Everything about it is. They didn't "lie" about it. If you, or anyone, believed the game would be exactly like that, that's your own fault.

    It's not false advertisement. It's called "sugar coating" and use certain words and phrases to get you pumped up. Let it go.

    No it's false advertising, it is common in today's era, but it is not ethical.  If you promote something in a way that it isn't truly, you are being deceptive.  It has become so commonplace that people just accept it and tolerate it, but it doesn't make it right. 

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    Everything Ree Soesbee said is talking about the personal story part of the game.  True fact.

    I've pointed this out more than once.  Like RIGHT after the manifesto came out, they had multiple interviews where they cleared up this common misconception.  They probably should have edited it into the vide oitself, just a little asterik next  to her name at all times, but they weren't lying, and they DID clear this up.

     

    Yes, they had the chance to modify the manifesto trailer to more accuretely point out what they meant, but they didn't.  So they made their choice and they ought to take responsability for it.

  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Originally posted by caetftl

    "GW2 takes everything you loved about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world. "

    I think a lot of gw1 players will agree with me that this is also just marketing, gvg was huge in gw1, as was the dual profession system, neither of which was implemented into gw2.

    Don't forget the skill system. IMO the best skill system in any MMO until now. Even blizzard copied it with D3 and it was D3's ONLY universally praised feature. Yet Anet abandoned it.

  • sammyelisammyeli Member Posts: 765

    Oh damn he posted it again.

     

     

    /grab popcorn

     

    was bored at work anyway

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    “The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.”

    Carl Sagan-

  • caetftlcaetftl Member Posts: 358
    Originally posted by dynamicipftw
    Originally posted by caetftl

    "GW2 takes everything you loved about GW1 and puts it into a persistent world. "

    I think a lot of gw1 players will agree with me that this is also just marketing, gvg was huge in gw1, as was the dual profession system, neither of which was implemented into gw2.

    Don't forget the skill system. IMO the best skill system in any MMO until now. Even blizzard copied it with D3 and it was D3's ONLY universally praised feature. Yet Anet abandoned it.

    You make a good point...

  • MMOwandererMMOwanderer Member Posts: 415
    Originally posted by caetftl
    Originally posted by MMOwanderer

    Why would you breakdown the trailer? It's a hype trailer. It was made to get players hyped and excited about the game. Everyone does it.

    It's marketing? Well, yeah OP. Everything about it is. They didn't "lie" about it. If you, or anyone, believed the game would be exactly like that, that's your own fault.

    It's not false advertisement. It's called "sugar coating" and use certain words and phrases to get you pumped up. Let it go.

    No it's false advertising, it is common in today's era, but it is not ethical.  If you promote something in a way that it isn't truly, you are being deceptive.  It has become so commonplace that people just accept it and tolerate it, but it doesn't make it right. 

    I don't agree that it's false advertising per se.

    Let me use one of TSW's trailer. In it, the devs say there's no classes and no levels. Now, as you may know, TSW does have item Quality as substitute to normal levels, but it's still quite similar in function. BUT, TSW's does not have a "character level", a numerical value like "level 37", so it's somewhat true.

    Again, it's sugar coating for the sake of adversting and marketing, just like in GW2. For example, "GW2 takes everything you love about GW1". If someone that played GW1 agreed with that line, how woud it false adversting?

    Remember, pretty words to get players hyped up. It's always like this.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,305

    They respected any single point made in their manifesto. There's no lie, no marketing, the game is what the manifesto says. The fact that "you" (you being the random person out there) don't like the game doesn't make this less true. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    I could make a manifesto about me making a movie about blue aliens living on a planet in orbit around Alpha Centauri... and you may dislike the movie. Fact is, the movie is still about blue aliens living on that planet, even if you don't like it.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • caetftlcaetftl Member Posts: 358
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    They respected any single point made in their manifesto. There's no lie, no marketing, the game is what the manifesto says. The fact that "you" (you being the random person out there) don't like the game doesn't make this less true. This is a fact, not an opinion.

    So you permanently affect the world, bosses don't respawn 10 minutes later?  They took EVERYTHING people loved about gw1 and put it in a persistent world for gw2?  Everything is expecting too much, but they didn't even take the biggest things people loved about gw1. 

     

    Such a fact eh? 

  • NaeviusNaevius Member UncommonPosts: 334

    That would be an awesome MMO - the first group to kill a boss kills it PERMANENTLY.

    Not.

  • caetftlcaetftl Member Posts: 358
    Originally posted by Naevius

    That would be an awesome MMO - the first group to kill a boss kills it PERMANENTLY.

    Not.

    Or at least have the boss not respawn a couple minutes later while you are still in the area. 

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,305
    Originally posted by caetftl

    So you permanently affect the world, bosses don't respawn 10 minutes later?  They took EVERYTHING people loved about gw1 and put it in a persistent world for gw2?  Everything is expecting too much, but they didn't even take the biggest things people loved about gw1. 

     

    Such a fact eh? 

    You distorting what is said in the manifesto and trying to make it say what it never said, just to make it fit your own personal agenda on these forums, doesn't make the manifesto less accurate.

    You being angry because GW2 is not a carbon copy of GW1 doesn't make the game bad or the manifesto wrong either.

    You confuse "what I wished GW2 would be" and "what the manifesto said GW2 would be".

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • caetftlcaetftl Member Posts: 358
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by caetftl

    So you permanently affect the world, bosses don't respawn 10 minutes later?  They took EVERYTHING people loved about gw1 and put it in a persistent world for gw2?  Everything is expecting too much, but they didn't even take the biggest things people loved about gw1. 

     

    Such a fact eh? 

    You distorting what is said in the manifesto and trying to make it say what it never said, just to make it fit your own personal agenda on these forums, doesn't make the manifesto less accurate.

    You being angry because GW2 is not a carbon copy of GW1 doesn't make the game bad or the manifesto wrong either.

    You confuse "what I wished GW2 would be" and "what the manifesto said GW2 would be".

    I quoted the manifesto verbatim in every single one of my quotes, there is no distortion. 

     

    When they claim they are taking the things the players loved from gw1 and putting them into a persistent world, the claim is what it is, there is no distortion.  Did they do that?  What were the things players loved most about gw1?  Are they in gw2? 

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,305
    Originally posted by caetftl

    I quoted the manifesto verbatim in every single one of my quotes, there is no distortion. 

    Your interpretation of it is definitely adapted to fit your own little agenda here, and doesn't reflect the reality.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759

    I kind of find it funny that people keep bringing up the point of no dual classes. What did the dual classes do for you exactly? Let you mix roles like dps,support, cc and create customized builds rather than being like many games where the 1 class you pick defines the roles you play. Hmmm... now where have i seen the ability to combine various roles into 1 character? I could have sworn I saw that same exact thing somewhere..... oh yeah thats right. In GW2.

  • LeononaLeonona Member UncommonPosts: 225
    Originally posted by caetftl

    "As a structure the mmo has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero, everybody around you is doing the same thing you're doing, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later, it doesn't care that i'm there."

     

    "In gw2 it's your world, it's your story, you affect things around you in a very permanent way". 

     

    "You're rescuing a village, that will stay rescued, who will then remember you"

     

    These quotes are all by Ree Soesbee who is doing the personal story, and what she says here is meant only for the personal story. Like stated above Arenanet should have made that clear in the video, because it creates a lot of false hope that the open world will be like that.

This discussion has been closed.