Originally posted by Angier2758 Op.. the roles are defined in pvp pretty clearly. They are not dps fests... too many ways for a smart player to stop that.
The roles are also there in PvE, but everything "feeling" the same to him is subjective and I'll take it at face value.
Personally I know my Warrior with a Mace and Shield feels quite different than when he's using a Greatsword, and that my Mesmer with a Sword and Pistol or Greatsword is completely different from that.
People find what they are looking for. If he prefers "hard trinity" and was looking for homoginization in GW2 he found it. I was looking for freedom, flexibility, and diversity and I also found what I was looking for.
They are the ones that have chosen to use an overflow system which is poor design in the first place and the bugs with partying and the overflow existed in beta if you read my post long before it was flooded . They have thousands of tools to stress test software and databases. They dont need to "hire" people to play, you can simulate connections players etc. Sure you may get a unexpected peak at launch but those are issues for log in servers (which did crash but were resolved with in a day) and latency issues not in game bugs.Partying is fundimental aspect of any mmo not a minor feature.
I had no issues with your OP and wish you the best in wherever your gaming interests take you...
BUT...
This response I have issues with. First off calling the overflow a "poor design in the first place" - well yes you are entitled to your opinion but I and I'm pretty sure hundreds of thousands of others would rather be playing the game in the overflow zones than waiting in multi-hour queues (see the complaint posts from people trying to get into WvW for examples).
Second, it is actually incredibly hard even with automated load-testing tools to simulate a true live environment. I've been there. I've used them. I've seen the tools fall short of expectations.
Finally assuming that unexpected peak activity only impacts login servers tells me you know very very little about modern distributed computing software design. Once again I have no issue with you being unhappy about how grouping is currently working with the overflow servers but to assume that "it's a simple problem" is just flat out wrong.
Also many have ignored Creslin's post but how many people struggling with grouping were all trying to join the Party Lead/Member in the Main Server rather than joining the person in the Overflow Server?
The overflow system the way it is working now is bad design, it's a disjointed and smoke and mirrors way to host an mmo and is a way of making up for the game engine's inability to cope with large numbers of people in certain areas. Just taken down the fire ele boss in the "main server" only to join a friend stuck in the overflow to find the fire boss up and ready to go again or you slap bang in the middle of it? Persistent immersive world? Plenty of other MMOs manage without it. I never said it was a simple problem but it is a problem for the developers and software architect designers, people that are paid a lot of money and given a lot of time to implement these systems. It shouldn't be the player's problem and it gets very tiring to have people make excuses for developers every time they drop the ball. With regards to your points on testing I 100% agree they are not full proof but they are there as a guide. Do you not think that if you knew you were going to use an overflow style system that is already a bit of a disruptive system that you would make 100 % sure that your solution for getting parties together worked flawlessly? You then find out it's got issues reported to you in beta and should make sure to get it sorted, that is the point in having a beta isn't it? This isn't a direct load issue, it's an issue with a feature.
I said the unexpected peaks are issues for log in servers and latency issues, my point being not relevant to in game bugs. Your point about my lack of understanding about "modern distributed computing software design" is not actually true, I actually work for a large scale IPTV company but let's assume it was. Should I need to know how Dyson's cyclone suction engine works so that if it's faulty I can let it go and say "hey you know what they did a pretty good job on a complex product, I don't need that feature on the box anyway, it mostly works"? No is the answer. 90% of the people playing this game won't even know anything about distributed computing and nor should they to play a game. I have hi-jacked my own thread here a bit but please stop making excuses for people that are paid to do a job.
Doing what Creslin suggested is a work around that works sometimes but it's by no means a solution. What if an event is happening on the main server and you want to help a friend, you port to that zone or area only to be put into an overflow no longer able to either play with him or participate in the event. Oh well you missed the event and both join the overflow to play on the same map. Now you are plagued with a pop up every 5 mins asking you to go to the main server you then both try to select yes only to have one of you join the main server and the other to reload back to an overflow. It's just a pain in the ass.
The overflow system the way it is working now is bad design, it's a disjointed and smoke and mirrors way to host an mmo and is a way of making up for the game engine's inability to cope with large numbers of people in certain areas. Just taken down the fire ele boss in the "main server" only to join a friend stuck in the overflow to find the fire boss up and ready to go again or you slap bang in the middle of it? Persistent immersive world? Plenty of other MMOs manage without it. I never said it was a simple problem but it is a problem for the developers and software architect designers, people that are paid a lot of money and given a lot of time to implement these systems. It shouldn't be the player's problem and it gets very tiring to have people make excuses for developers every time they drop the ball. With regards to your points on testing I 100% agree they are not full proof but they are there as a guide. Do you not think that if you knew you were going to use an overflow style system that is already a bit of a disruptive system that you would make 100 % sure that your solution for getting parties together worked flawlessly? You then find out it's got issues reported to you in beta and should make sure to get it sorted, that is the point in having a beta isn't it? This isn't a direct load issue, it's an issue with a feature.
I said the unexpected peaks are issues for log in servers and latency issues, my point being not relevant to in game bugs. Your point about my lack of understanding about "modern distributed computing software design" is not actually true, I actually work for a large scale IPTV company but let's assume it was. Should I need to know how Dyson's cyclone suction engine works so that if it's faulty I can let it go and say "hey you know what they did a pretty good job on a complex product, I don't need that feature on the box anyway, it mostly works"? No is the answer. 90% of the people playing this game won't even know anything about distributed computing and nor should they to play a game. I have hi-jacked my own thread here a bit but please stop making excuses for people that are paid to do a job.
Doing what Creslin suggested is a work around that works sometimes but it's by no means a solution. What if an event is happening on the main server and you want to help a friend, you port to that zone or area only to be put into an overflow no longer able to either play with him or participate in the event. Oh well you missed the event and both join the overflow to play on the same map. Now you are plagued with a pop up every 5 mins asking you to go to the main server you then both try to select yes only to have one of you join the main server and the other to reload back to an overflow. It's just a pain in the ass.
Like I said I have no issues with your annoyance with how Grouping is functioning. I can see it as being frustrating for those who really want to play with their friends at launch as it does currently require an undesirable amount of workarounds that don't always work.
But I was in the BWEs and Stress Tests where Overflow Grouping broke, and was also there when they patched it and it worked. Unfortunately the solution they came up with didn't scale to the "uber-loads" they are seeing. I was too strident in proclaiming you know nothing about software architecture, but I still stand by my point that you haven't much thought about the distributed architecture ANet has employed in GW2's design. There are multiple potential overflow zones and the overflow is shared across multiple main Servers (I believe it is a triad cluster of current WvW Opponents but don't quote me on that - I do know for sure that Overflow Zones are multi-server).
I do wish they had better ways of handling the popup but I do understand the issue they are having. Their goal is to have as many people playing on the Main Zone Servers as possible at all times and to despawn Overflow Zones as soon as they are able. How much time, effort, and programming should they dedicate to allowing Groups to maintain coherency during what I'm sure they hope is an anomalous set of conditions - ie launch?
I want to see it improved. I definitely feel and acknowledge your frustration. But I still feel you are somewhat dismissing the complexity of the issue because unlike most MMOs they are obviously using distributed farms or clouds to manage Zone load meaning the concept of a "Server" is completely conceptual and as the first company to do that they are encountering some unforeseen issues under heavy load.
And I still stand by my point that I personally (and I think a lot of other people) are very happy I never have to experience a Server Queue Countdown when logging in (I will be really interested to see what they do for WvW, because as soon as they are able I'm pretty sure they are going to address how greatly demand exceeds capacity for it right now).
Most of the problems with the broken in-game features including partying, overflow, and trading post are due to the load the server is trying to manage. ANet has done internal tests, beta tests, and stress tests, but unless they hired at least as many people who are currently playing right now (peak figure was 400K) they really don't have any chance to discover these issues. You have to understand that and maybe then you'll realize that it is forgiveable to have grouping issues at launch, especially with something as complicated as having to an overflow server that prioritizes a group. Your group is just one of the thousands of concurrent groups that the server is trying to sort out. Give them time to fine tune things. Also I think the trading post is up for everyone now? This is the first time I've had access ever since it was taken down at launch.
They wouldn't have had to hire anybody. There are literally tens of thousands of people who were signed up and volunteered to Beta, and never recieved even a stress test invite. Why? Because they wanted to push the pre-purchase access instead. They had somewhere in the ballpark of 1 million pre-orders. Why didn't they extend the stress testing to all of those people? That's a huge pool to pull from to stress test the overflow and it's bugs.
The fact is, they had plenty of volunteer and paid beta tester access that went un-utilized. For a problem like this to be reported and to remain untested/unfixed well into release is kind of a bummer.
The effects can be closed down. The trading post is up. Overflow is at least gone most of the time now on my server, just change to one of the medium servers.
Overflows will after the first few weeks only happen prime time on the busiest servers but it was a great way to eliminate waiting 3 hours to log in like Wow and TOR had on launch without making way too many servers. It is annoying that your group dont always end up in the same overflow though, it is a bugg but that still is really annoying.
Most of your bad stuff is already fixed, besides the effects that you could have tuned down from the beginning in the gfx options.
Left is the proffesions, but I for one are really glad that you cant tank or heal, it makes combat a lot less fun, particularly in dungeons.
I'm sure your review will save people time and money in exploring the game on their own. Alternatively, they may have read any of the 100s of articles published in the past 12 months which all explicitly discuss the paradigm shift from traditional trinity roles in MMOs. If you were caught off guard by anything about that, you just weren't paying attention. Most people are flocking to this game specifically for that reason.
The effects can be closed down. The trading post is up. Overflow is at least gone most of the time now on my server, just change to one of the medium servers.
Overflows will after the first few weeks only happen prime time on the busiest servers but it was a great way to eliminate waiting 3 hours to log in like Wow and TOR had on launch without making way too many servers. It is annoying that your group dont always end up in the same overflow though, it is a bugg but that still is really annoying.
Most of your bad stuff is already fixed, besides the effects that you could have tuned down from the beginning in the gfx options.
Left is the proffesions, but I for one are really glad that you cant tank or heal, it makes combat a lot less fun, particularly in dungeons.
really? mind to share where this option is located? because either I'm blind(possible) or its not there
here is a list of all graphical options please point out the one that allows spell effects to be turned down.
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
Comments
The roles are also there in PvE, but everything "feeling" the same to him is subjective and I'll take it at face value.
Personally I know my Warrior with a Mace and Shield feels quite different than when he's using a Greatsword, and that my Mesmer with a Sword and Pistol or Greatsword is completely different from that.
People find what they are looking for. If he prefers "hard trinity" and was looking for homoginization in GW2 he found it. I was looking for freedom, flexibility, and diversity and I also found what I was looking for.
The overflow system the way it is working now is bad design, it's a disjointed and smoke and mirrors way to host an mmo and is a way of making up for the game engine's inability to cope with large numbers of people in certain areas. Just taken down the fire ele boss in the "main server" only to join a friend stuck in the overflow to find the fire boss up and ready to go again or you slap bang in the middle of it? Persistent immersive world? Plenty of other MMOs manage without it. I never said it was a simple problem but it is a problem for the developers and software architect designers, people that are paid a lot of money and given a lot of time to implement these systems. It shouldn't be the player's problem and it gets very tiring to have people make excuses for developers every time they drop the ball. With regards to your points on testing I 100% agree they are not full proof but they are there as a guide. Do you not think that if you knew you were going to use an overflow style system that is already a bit of a disruptive system that you would make 100 % sure that your solution for getting parties together worked flawlessly? You then find out it's got issues reported to you in beta and should make sure to get it sorted, that is the point in having a beta isn't it? This isn't a direct load issue, it's an issue with a feature.
I said the unexpected peaks are issues for log in servers and latency issues, my point being not relevant to in game bugs. Your point about my lack of understanding about "modern distributed computing software design" is not actually true, I actually work for a large scale IPTV company but let's assume it was. Should I need to know how Dyson's cyclone suction engine works so that if it's faulty I can let it go and say "hey you know what they did a pretty good job on a complex product, I don't need that feature on the box anyway, it mostly works"? No is the answer. 90% of the people playing this game won't even know anything about distributed computing and nor should they to play a game. I have hi-jacked my own thread here a bit but please stop making excuses for people that are paid to do a job.
Doing what Creslin suggested is a work around that works sometimes but it's by no means a solution. What if an event is happening on the main server and you want to help a friend, you port to that zone or area only to be put into an overflow no longer able to either play with him or participate in the event. Oh well you missed the event and both join the overflow to play on the same map. Now you are plagued with a pop up every 5 mins asking you to go to the main server you then both try to select yes only to have one of you join the main server and the other to reload back to an overflow. It's just a pain in the ass.
Like I said I have no issues with your annoyance with how Grouping is functioning. I can see it as being frustrating for those who really want to play with their friends at launch as it does currently require an undesirable amount of workarounds that don't always work.
But I was in the BWEs and Stress Tests where Overflow Grouping broke, and was also there when they patched it and it worked. Unfortunately the solution they came up with didn't scale to the "uber-loads" they are seeing. I was too strident in proclaiming you know nothing about software architecture, but I still stand by my point that you haven't much thought about the distributed architecture ANet has employed in GW2's design. There are multiple potential overflow zones and the overflow is shared across multiple main Servers (I believe it is a triad cluster of current WvW Opponents but don't quote me on that - I do know for sure that Overflow Zones are multi-server).
I do wish they had better ways of handling the popup but I do understand the issue they are having. Their goal is to have as many people playing on the Main Zone Servers as possible at all times and to despawn Overflow Zones as soon as they are able. How much time, effort, and programming should they dedicate to allowing Groups to maintain coherency during what I'm sure they hope is an anomalous set of conditions - ie launch?
I want to see it improved. I definitely feel and acknowledge your frustration. But I still feel you are somewhat dismissing the complexity of the issue because unlike most MMOs they are obviously using distributed farms or clouds to manage Zone load meaning the concept of a "Server" is completely conceptual and as the first company to do that they are encountering some unforeseen issues under heavy load.
And I still stand by my point that I personally (and I think a lot of other people) are very happy I never have to experience a Server Queue Countdown when logging in (I will be really interested to see what they do for WvW, because as soon as they are able I'm pretty sure they are going to address how greatly demand exceeds capacity for it right now).
They wouldn't have had to hire anybody. There are literally tens of thousands of people who were signed up and volunteered to Beta, and never recieved even a stress test invite. Why? Because they wanted to push the pre-purchase access instead. They had somewhere in the ballpark of 1 million pre-orders. Why didn't they extend the stress testing to all of those people? That's a huge pool to pull from to stress test the overflow and it's bugs.
The fact is, they had plenty of volunteer and paid beta tester access that went un-utilized. For a problem like this to be reported and to remain untested/unfixed well into release is kind of a bummer.
The effects can be closed down. The trading post is up. Overflow is at least gone most of the time now on my server, just change to one of the medium servers.
Overflows will after the first few weeks only happen prime time on the busiest servers but it was a great way to eliminate waiting 3 hours to log in like Wow and TOR had on launch without making way too many servers. It is annoying that your group dont always end up in the same overflow though, it is a bugg but that still is really annoying.
Most of your bad stuff is already fixed, besides the effects that you could have tuned down from the beginning in the gfx options.
Left is the proffesions, but I for one are really glad that you cant tank or heal, it makes combat a lot less fun, particularly in dungeons.
If everyone is special, then no one is.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
really? mind to share where this option is located? because either I'm blind(possible) or its not there
here is a list of all graphical options please point out the one that allows spell effects to be turned down.
Thanks
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Options
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze