If it were too easy people would be bashing it saying it wsa too easy. I played for several hours this weekend and there was a learning curve for sure. Had a ball though and got better as I learned. It can be expensive though for sure.
For example, we are winning by so much that it's just not fun anymore!
Don't worry you will eventually meet up with other top servers and prob get your face kicked in. Though maybe your server is so bad ass'd you might just end up taking the top spot.
The other day my server was 100k and the next faction was around 12k. Today we are 34k and last.
There's only 1 server that's been on par with us and that's Desolation, hopefully it'll pick up though
Enjoy your wins while you can because it won't last forever. Its only been 2 days so expect fierce competition in few weeks.
The more I hear about GW2s WvW the more it sounds like DAOC's frontier, and the more it sounds like DAOC's frontier the more I'm tempted to get it.
@OP - give it few weeks for people to figure out all the dynamics and servers to get organised and it'll all come together. RvR/WvW isn't the same as straight PvP, it's not about individuals and small groups hunting other individuals and small groups, it's all about massed armies and organisation.
Zones are so huge, with so few waypoints that it takes forever to get anywhere. You can easily die falling off a cliff, from getting swarmed by level 80 mob packs, or jumped by veteran spawns These have nothing to do with PvP. When you die you must run all the way back to where you started, and due to the size of each area it is very tedious.
Everything costs money - siege weapons, commanders, repairs, and yet you earn very little in PvP for all of these expenses.
It always comes down to who has the most people online. In a fight with 10 v 6 everywhere you go, the 10 are going to win most of the time. There are exceptions, but on average there's simply not much you can do.
It's too complex. There are orbs, and Quaggins, and NPC mobs, and players, and points, and buffs, and keep lords, and gates, and siege engines, supply etc. I saw several people in chat today say it was too complicated, and left back for PvE. It's cumbersome to try to explain it all when people have questions.
It's too Pve'ish. There are roaming packs of level 80 mobs that can make life difficult on any roaming player (see item 1). There is more time spent running along terrain, dodging mobs, and killing mobs, than is actually spent hunting and killing other players.
1. Yes the zones are huge that's the whole point. It's a massive battleground and yes running back suck... so don't die if you can avoid it.
2. I made 30s in WvW in about an hour and a half this afternoon. That's at level 38, so rewards are much higher. Run suppy caravan if nothing much else is going on, that's a good secure way of getting gold and karma.
Commanders are for guild leaders, so the whole guild puts in money. Siege weapons you can buy with badges of honour as well and you should get getting at least a few of these. You almost always get 2 drop when you kill any of the NPC bosses, and you also occasionally get them from player kills.
3. No entirely true. Eventually the zones cap out with a max population then it doesn't matter how many people you have online because all sides will have roughly the same humbers.
4. Not really. Kill the red stuff.
5. Depends on the circumstances. In the hour and a half I spend in WvW this afternoon, roughly 2/3rds was direct combat with the opposing forces (either defending or taking a tower/keep or some battles for locations like bridges and so forth).
Well this was kind of given during betas that there will be huge zergs in W vW. So not a new news. I tried to do small group PVP but got stomped by huge numbers. So our group decided to join the zerglings too;)
I guess it is too soon to expect a small scale PVP right now. But i must say that i still had fun..even though PVP reminded me a lot of WAR keep seiges. Lets say that i am used to zergs
It's not suprise at all that its zerg-based. Thats all world PvP ever ends up being. WAR had this problem, as did SWTOR. GW2 PvP probably works best at the level of mini games where its smaller and the numbers are capped in the instance. I always felt WvWvW was a gimick, and wouldn't ammount to anything much.
I've never had problems finding plenty of smaller scale combat. Just steer away from the zergs, go for supply camps / raid their supply lines. It's such a blast, best massive PvP experiences I've ever had. You actually feel like part of bigger effort and there is great sense of 'us vs them'.
Zones are so huge, with so few waypoints that it takes forever to get anywhere. You can easily die falling off a cliff, from getting swarmed by level 80 mob packs, or jumped by veteran spawns These have nothing to do with PvP. When you die you must run all the way back to where you started, and due to the size of each area it is very tedious.
Everything costs money - siege weapons, commanders, repairs, and yet you earn very little in PvP for all of these expenses.
It always comes down to who has the most people online. In a fight with 10 v 6 everywhere you go, the 10 are going to win most of the time. There are exceptions, but on average there's simply not much you can do.
It's too complex. There are orbs, and Quaggins, and NPC mobs, and players, and points, and buffs, and keep lords, and gates, and siege engines, supply etc. I saw several people in chat today say it was too complicated, and left back for PvE. It's cumbersome to try to explain it all when people have questions.
It's too Pve'ish. There are roaming packs of level 80 mobs that can make life difficult on any roaming player (see item 1). There is more time spent running along terrain, dodging mobs, and killing mobs, than is actually spent hunting and killing other players.
Some how WvW became PvE hardmode, and I'm seeing people on my server quitting back to regular PvE because of it (making it even harder to compete). I just feel not enough attention was spent on how this was all going to fit together. The pieces are there, but right now it is just a very cumbersome and frustrating experience, unless you simply have the numbers to steamroll.
That is actually good to hear.
I thought WvW in GW2 could be maybe to small, and the traveling would be to short.
Look. WvW is not a short term game. It is meant to play for years. It have to be somewhat complex. It have to have long traveling distances that it is possible to be lost there, or to dodge the zerg, for small scale warefare and all the things in between. WAR failed, because it was to small(and the 2 faction was another pitfall).
It may be not that good now.. but just wait a few weeks and or month. The money skins will be not that much with higher level, the knowledge of the tactics will be better known. And than it opens up possibilities for a different kind of pvp.
For the fast hot seat pvp you can join at any time sPvP.. but it may get rather stale after some time. But in WvW you will have enough amount of unpredictability and ways to toy around to be interesting for a much longer time. Maybe it is just a matter of flavor.
But i tell you a little DAoC story. We played as a group running around in the old RvR zones(pre Frontiers), and at times running 1 h without even meeting another group, or to get a fight. Of course, we avoided the zerg.. 1 group vs zerg is never that good of an idea. But overall every encounter of another group, or a few groups resulted in some very satisfying pvp battles. And the time invested running around was totally worth it.
So after all, your critics over WvW sound extremely promising for me. But after all we have to wait a few weeks/month how it all comes down.
For example, we are winning by so much that it's just not fun anymore!
Well. i guess you have towait two weeks to get some better action. You server will be then matched up with more active ones.
On the other side, a lot of ppl just play pve up to now. Give them a week until they saw enough, and a greater amount of ppl starting to play WvW regulary. It is really to early to say anything about WvW. I guess the most action will start when the average gamer hits max level, and a lot of them will then focus entirly on WvW, or at least almost.
Zones are so huge, with so few waypoints that it takes forever to get anywhere. You can easily die falling off a cliff, from getting swarmed by level 80 mob packs, or jumped by veteran spawns These have nothing to do with PvP. When you die you must run all the way back to where you started, and due to the size of each area it is very tedious.
Everything costs money - siege weapons, commanders, repairs, and yet you earn very little in PvP for all of these expenses.
It always comes down to who has the most people online. In a fight with 10 v 6 everywhere you go, the 10 are going to win most of the time. There are exceptions, but on average there's simply not much you can do.
It's too complex. There are orbs, and Quaggins, and NPC mobs, and players, and points, and buffs, and keep lords, and gates, and siege engines, supply etc. I saw several people in chat today say it was too complicated, and left back for PvE. It's cumbersome to try to explain it all when people have questions.
It's too Pve'ish. There are roaming packs of level 80 mobs that can make life difficult on any roaming player (see item 1). There is more time spent running along terrain, dodging mobs, and killing mobs, than is actually spent hunting and killing other players.
Some how WvW became PvE hardmode, and I'm seeing people on my server quitting back to regular PvE because of it (making it even harder to compete). I just feel not enough attention was spent on how this was all going to fit together. The pieces are there, but right now it is just a very cumbersome and frustrating experience, unless you simply have the numbers to steamroll.
I've got to say that this may not be your idea of PVP but it sounds fucking great to me.
Zones are so huge, with so few waypoints that it takes forever to get anywhere. You can easily die falling off a cliff, from getting swarmed by level 80 mob packs, or jumped by veteran spawns These have nothing to do with PvP. When you die you must run all the way back to where you started, and due to the size of each area it is very tedious.
Everything costs money - siege weapons, commanders, repairs, and yet you earn very little in PvP for all of these expenses.
It always comes down to who has the most people online. In a fight with 10 v 6 everywhere you go, the 10 are going to win most of the time. There are exceptions, but on average there's simply not much you can do.
It's too complex. There are orbs, and Quaggins, and NPC mobs, and players, and points, and buffs, and keep lords, and gates, and siege engines, supply etc. I saw several people in chat today say it was too complicated, and left back for PvE. It's cumbersome to try to explain it all when people have questions.
It's too Pve'ish. There are roaming packs of level 80 mobs that can make life difficult on any roaming player (see item 1). There is more time spent running along terrain, dodging mobs, and killing mobs, than is actually spent hunting and killing other players.
Some how WvW became PvE hardmode, and I'm seeing people on my server quitting back to regular PvE because of it (making it even harder to compete). I just feel not enough attention was spent on how this was all going to fit together. The pieces are there, but right now it is just a very cumbersome and frustrating experience, unless you simply have the numbers to steamroll.
but one thing i said about was actually a lack of compexity. Really, how do you find managing all things that hard? How are points hard? You just need to make sure you have a good combination of structures that give a good points so that your total war score is the highest.
Honestly, reading this and about chat makes me think that if my ideas, like multyple resources, where used, people's heads would explode or something.
Zones are so huge, with so few waypoints that it takes forever to get anywhere. You can easily die falling off a cliff, from getting swarmed by level 80 mob packs, or jumped by veteran spawns These have nothing to do with PvP. When you die you must run all the way back to where you started, and due to the size of each area it is very tedious.
Everything costs money - siege weapons, commanders, repairs, and yet you earn very little in PvP for all of these expenses.
It always comes down to who has the most people online. In a fight with 10 v 6 everywhere you go, the 10 are going to win most of the time. There are exceptions, but on average there's simply not much you can do.
It's too complex. There are orbs, and Quaggins, and NPC mobs, and players, and points, and buffs, and keep lords, and gates, and siege engines, supply etc. I saw several people in chat today say it was too complicated, and left back for PvE. It's cumbersome to try to explain it all when people have questions.
It's too Pve'ish. There are roaming packs of level 80 mobs that can make life difficult on any roaming player (see item 1). There is more time spent running along terrain, dodging mobs, and killing mobs, than is actually spent hunting and killing other players.
Some how WvW became PvE hardmode, and I'm seeing people on my server quitting back to regular PvE because of it (making it even harder to compete). I just feel not enough attention was spent on how this was all going to fit together. The pieces are there, but right now it is just a very cumbersome and frustrating experience, unless you simply have the numbers to steamroll.
but one thing i said about was actually a lack of compexity. Really, how do you find managing all things that hard? How are points hard? You just need to make sure you have a good combination of structures that give a good points so that your total war score is the highest.
Honestly, reading this and about chat makes me think that if my ideas, like multyple resources, where used, people's heads would explode or something.
Its not weather the OP finds it too hard, its weather the team can agree on strategy, because the more complicated it is, the more arguing with team members.
but one thing i said about was actually a lack of compexity. Really, how do you find managing all things that hard? How are points hard? You just need to make sure you have a good combination of structures that give a good points so that your total war score is the highest.
Honestly, reading this and about chat makes me think that if my ideas, like multyple resources, where used, people's heads would explode or something.
Its not weather the OP finds it too hard, its weather the team can agree on strategy, because the more complicated it is, the more arguing with team members.
That's why there's a squad commander function and other stuff. I understand, organization isn't easy, specially in an mmorpg, but that's what makes it so fun. Players need to realize large scale pvp is about communication and tactics in game that tries to use.
Also, the fact that the game just launched probably as something to do with it. There'll probably be more organization later on.
but one thing i said about was actually a lack of compexity. Really, how do you find managing all things that hard? How are points hard? You just need to make sure you have a good combination of structures that give a good points so that your total war score is the highest.
Honestly, reading this and about chat makes me think that if my ideas, like multyple resources, where used, people's heads would explode or something.
Its not weather the OP finds it too hard, its weather the team can agree on strategy, because the more complicated it is, the more arguing with team members.
That's why there's a squad commander function and other stuff. I understand, organization isn't easy, specially in an mmorpg, but that's what makes it so fun. Players need to realize large scale pvp is about communication and tactics in game that tries to use.
Also, the fact that the game just launched probably as something to do with it. There'll probably be more organization later on.
that's why GW2 offers PvP mini games, for those that don't want to participate is large scale PvP
The more I hear about GW2s WvW the more it sounds like DAOC's frontier, and the more it sounds like DAOC's frontier the more I'm tempted to get it.
@OP - give it few weeks for people to figure out all the dynamics and servers to get organised and it'll all come together. RvR/WvW isn't the same as straight PvP, it's not about individuals and small groups hunting other individuals and small groups, it's all about massed armies and organisation.
WvWvW is instanced, it is not persistent and it is not open world but otherwise it is more similar to WAR or Planetside than DAoC. The map is a bit like Agramon however.
The biggest difference is in DAoC you fight the same enemies over and over, in GW2 your enemies change when the map rotates so you won't see the kinds of healthy rivalries the DAoC community was based on. It's arguably a good thing, they apparently plan on matching servers of equal ability so you don't get facerolled over and over, but it does mean it will lack that competitive DAoC feel and realm pride. Server pride maybe, but it will lack as all servers have the same races and classes. It's like Albion v Albion v Albion..."For Arthur megameights!!111eleven!2"
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My biggest problem with W v W v W so far is that it always feels as though I am "catching up" to the action. When I first zone in and head toward the action, it is usually over by the time I get there and there is a new hot spot. Then by the time I get there, it is over again, and on to the next. I finally caught up last night, and only had about 10 minutes left to play . Need to find a good guild, been trying to get into the mmorpg.com guild but I haven't receieved a response either on here or in game.
Did you really fall off cliffs? Is it really that hard to see a cilff and walk the other way? Mob packs....walk around them? or use your dodge roll, which no one seems to know how to use, or atleast those that complain about the game being too difficult. The PvE mobs actually aren't that difficult. They just aren't meant to be solo'd. It's meant to be run over by a sizeable force. Not taken down by a single person. That'd be stupid. Then thiefs, rangers and other high dmg classes could just go around capping everything. The maps size and lack of waypoints is there for a reason.
Here is an example in Aion if you were sieging a keep/fort the enemy could teleport to the nearest thing from their point in the pvp zone. It got troublesome when the enemy could just teleport right on top of you.
The way GW2 WvW handles this is by eliminating that. Now when you push back a force/clear them out of a fort..theyre gone; at least for a little while, anyway. Wouldn't it suck if you pushed back some invaders just to see another wave of those SAME invaders 5 seconds later because they all set up mobile spawn points for themselves.
I'll take walking a long distance after I die over being constantly zerged because the enemy can spawn too close.
Originally posted by zymurgeist Haven't played but if a good organized guild can beat a blob of scrubs twice their number large scale PvP is pretty good. Is that the case?
Yes and no, the "scrubs" would need to be braindead automotons as the game lacks class structure which means numbers usually win. Organisation works the same as any other homogenised pvp game, vice comms and group setups will help and there are already several powerful group set-ups which can be used to bes effect.
It could happen, but nothing like DAoC where an organised group could pb-box and slaughter 200 enemies, there is no 60 second mezz, it's not a 1-button i-win game....that simply won't happen.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I agree that they need a better way to travel around, even if its not teleporting around, just something better than walking.
That being said, I think WvW is great. I very rarely dabble in PVP, but this has reminded me of WAR's keep seiges, but better, which I am 100% ok with. I think the way it was implemented will ultimately bring more people into the game, because hardcore PVE types will feel more at a home. It's like baby steps into PVP, and it is PVP with a greater purpose than just killing other guys for points or stupid mini games. At least, its designed to feel like it has a greater purpose.
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Comments
I miss DAoC
Enjoy your wins while you can because it won't last forever. Its only been 2 days so expect fierce competition in few weeks.
Bite Me
The more I hear about GW2s WvW the more it sounds like DAOC's frontier, and the more it sounds like DAOC's frontier the more I'm tempted to get it.
@OP - give it few weeks for people to figure out all the dynamics and servers to get organised and it'll all come together. RvR/WvW isn't the same as straight PvP, it's not about individuals and small groups hunting other individuals and small groups, it's all about massed armies and organisation.
1. Yes the zones are huge that's the whole point. It's a massive battleground and yes running back suck... so don't die if you can avoid it.
2. I made 30s in WvW in about an hour and a half this afternoon. That's at level 38, so rewards are much higher. Run suppy caravan if nothing much else is going on, that's a good secure way of getting gold and karma.
Commanders are for guild leaders, so the whole guild puts in money. Siege weapons you can buy with badges of honour as well and you should get getting at least a few of these. You almost always get 2 drop when you kill any of the NPC bosses, and you also occasionally get them from player kills.
3. No entirely true. Eventually the zones cap out with a max population then it doesn't matter how many people you have online because all sides will have roughly the same humbers.
4. Not really. Kill the red stuff.
5. Depends on the circumstances. In the hour and a half I spend in WvW this afternoon, roughly 2/3rds was direct combat with the opposing forces (either defending or taking a tower/keep or some battles for locations like bridges and so forth).
The Enlightened take things Lightly
It's not suprise at all that its zerg-based. Thats all world PvP ever ends up being. WAR had this problem, as did SWTOR. GW2 PvP probably works best at the level of mini games where its smaller and the numbers are capped in the instance. I always felt WvWvW was a gimick, and wouldn't ammount to anything much.
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That is actually good to hear.
I thought WvW in GW2 could be maybe to small, and the traveling would be to short.
Look. WvW is not a short term game. It is meant to play for years. It have to be somewhat complex. It have to have long traveling distances that it is possible to be lost there, or to dodge the zerg, for small scale warefare and all the things in between. WAR failed, because it was to small(and the 2 faction was another pitfall).
It may be not that good now.. but just wait a few weeks and or month. The money skins will be not that much with higher level, the knowledge of the tactics will be better known. And than it opens up possibilities for a different kind of pvp.
For the fast hot seat pvp you can join at any time sPvP.. but it may get rather stale after some time. But in WvW you will have enough amount of unpredictability and ways to toy around to be interesting for a much longer time. Maybe it is just a matter of flavor.
But i tell you a little DAoC story. We played as a group running around in the old RvR zones(pre Frontiers), and at times running 1 h without even meeting another group, or to get a fight. Of course, we avoided the zerg.. 1 group vs zerg is never that good of an idea. But overall every encounter of another group, or a few groups resulted in some very satisfying pvp battles. And the time invested running around was totally worth it.
So after all, your critics over WvW sound extremely promising for me. But after all we have to wait a few weeks/month how it all comes down.
Well. i guess you have towait two weeks to get some better action. You server will be then matched up with more active ones.
On the other side, a lot of ppl just play pve up to now. Give them a week until they saw enough, and a greater amount of ppl starting to play WvW regulary. It is really to early to say anything about WvW. I guess the most action will start when the average gamer hits max level, and a lot of them will then focus entirly on WvW, or at least almost.
I've got to say that this may not be your idea of PVP but it sounds fucking great to me.
I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post OP, since i already gave my fully detailed impressions of WVW from beta on this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/361986/page/1
but one thing i said about was actually a lack of compexity. Really, how do you find managing all things that hard? How are points hard? You just need to make sure you have a good combination of structures that give a good points so that your total war score is the highest.
Honestly, reading this and about chat makes me think that if my ideas, like multyple resources, where used, people's heads would explode or something.
Its not weather the OP finds it too hard, its weather the team can agree on strategy, because the more complicated it is, the more arguing with team members.
All of your points make WvW awesome...never played DAOC or Shadowbane huh? Im sorry this isnt easy mode WoW
^this ; and the good news is that is going to get better as players level up, gain more resources and deploy more warfare devices
That's why there's a squad commander function and other stuff. I understand, organization isn't easy, specially in an mmorpg, but that's what makes it so fun. Players need to realize large scale pvp is about communication and tactics in game that tries to use.
Also, the fact that the game just launched probably as something to do with it. There'll probably be more organization later on.
that's why GW2 offers PvP mini games, for those that don't want to participate is large scale PvP
WvWvW is instanced, it is not persistent and it is not open world but otherwise it is more similar to WAR or Planetside than DAoC. The map is a bit like Agramon however.
The biggest difference is in DAoC you fight the same enemies over and over, in GW2 your enemies change when the map rotates so you won't see the kinds of healthy rivalries the DAoC community was based on. It's arguably a good thing, they apparently plan on matching servers of equal ability so you don't get facerolled over and over, but it does mean it will lack that competitive DAoC feel and realm pride. Server pride maybe, but it will lack as all servers have the same races and classes. It's like Albion v Albion v Albion..."For Arthur megameights!!111eleven!2"
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Did you really fall off cliffs? Is it really that hard to see a cilff and walk the other way? Mob packs....walk around them? or use your dodge roll, which no one seems to know how to use, or atleast those that complain about the game being too difficult. The PvE mobs actually aren't that difficult. They just aren't meant to be solo'd. It's meant to be run over by a sizeable force. Not taken down by a single person. That'd be stupid. Then thiefs, rangers and other high dmg classes could just go around capping everything. The maps size and lack of waypoints is there for a reason.
Here is an example in Aion if you were sieging a keep/fort the enemy could teleport to the nearest thing from their point in the pvp zone. It got troublesome when the enemy could just teleport right on top of you.
The way GW2 WvW handles this is by eliminating that. Now when you push back a force/clear them out of a fort..theyre gone; at least for a little while, anyway. Wouldn't it suck if you pushed back some invaders just to see another wave of those SAME invaders 5 seconds later because they all set up mobile spawn points for themselves.
I'll take walking a long distance after I die over being constantly zerged because the enemy can spawn too close.
I think the OP and others are jumping to conclusions way too fast.
1. We are still in the pre-launch phase! The big mob of players will join tomorrow.
2. Pretty much everyone is new to the game, exploring and busy leveling up in PVE. So there is not much focus on PVP yet.
When people get higher level, they will start to be inclined more and more to join W v W v W to get a break from PVE.
So just give it some time. I know myself that I like PVP, but right now I am just busy exploring PVE and enjoying that.
Yes and no, the "scrubs" would need to be braindead automotons as the game lacks class structure which means numbers usually win. Organisation works the same as any other homogenised pvp game, vice comms and group setups will help and there are already several powerful group set-ups which can be used to bes effect.
It could happen, but nothing like DAoC where an organised group could pb-box and slaughter 200 enemies, there is no 60 second mezz, it's not a 1-button i-win game....that simply won't happen.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
If they don't do something to fix the pvp queues, those new players will cause a much bigger problem don't you think?
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I agree that they need a better way to travel around, even if its not teleporting around, just something better than walking.
That being said, I think WvW is great. I very rarely dabble in PVP, but this has reminded me of WAR's keep seiges, but better, which I am 100% ok with. I think the way it was implemented will ultimately bring more people into the game, because hardcore PVE types will feel more at a home. It's like baby steps into PVP, and it is PVP with a greater purpose than just killing other guys for points or stupid mini games. At least, its designed to feel like it has a greater purpose.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ