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How to improve the game and/or free to play to gain more players and hence improve pay to play...

daeamarthdaeamarth Member Posts: 24

Is this even a valid topic? Or, as I suspect, does it have merit and if so what?

-Cash restrictions retard player economy and detract even from pay to play players, some compromise?
-Are new expansions really the answer to gaining popularity or retaining existing players or is it more? Such as, game mechanics, in game culture, improving grouping and hence te social aspect, etc?
-Make the game "harder" to play or is the easy mode dps market the only route?
-Better collection system rewards.
-Marketing (#1) really... WTF sony?


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    You know there is a VERY big picture in game design.

    using Eq2 for example,it does have some challenge,but where MOST fail in design is threshold.What i mean by that is no matter how skillful you are the threshold stops you from doing any better.

    Eq2 is that very game,you have a certain limit then the enemy becomes maximum.Every game has it but where a great design shines is when you have your normal maximum and a much higher threshold when using skill.

    The prime example  always like to use is the RDM [Red Mage] from FFXI.It is not relegated to just the RDM but it was the first and imo best design ever for a class.The RDM under a skillful player can take down enemies that even a full group can easily wipe to.At the same time ,this does NOT mean the RDM is easy mode,it is still always ,well msot of the time better in a full group.

    Back to the EQ2 example and the reason i got bored with their combat is no gear swapping ,food is basically only a noticeable after fight effect.Stats are even very superficial EVERY class has a basic stat and nothing will change that or enhance the combat structure.There is a lot more to it  like FFXI having elemental properties and types of damage playing a much larger role.

    EQ2 you play it level 1 and other than knowing what a enemy uses on you ,it is the same old every single fight.Use your most recent spells most if not all old ones are just replaced,it is a VERY superficial design.

    I still found some fun and use for EQ2 but SOE's constent push for cash shop drove me away and i was a paying customer.The AOD expansion was an absolute joke,the worst cotnent related xpac i have ever seen in gaming.Other content even as a full paid customer you could not access unless using cash shop,very disrespectful developer SOE is.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • daeamarthdaeamarth Member Posts: 24

    I absolutely agree the paying customers not getting the expansion packs outright is at the least disrespectful and they should change that if for no other reason than its the trend and they will get stomped by it if they dont change. It should be more like DDO and such where you get full game and updates. This is the route even the enterprise world takes. You buy our product and support and that equates to full support AND life upgrades so long as you pay support. Monthly fees are, IMHO, paying support.

    The food stat impact I overall agree with. Food and drink should have a greater impact. Just like carry weight. They actually changed this to accommodate "easy mode". Of course with the crafting system drink and food have a much bigger impact than just after a fight Im guessing you have not explored this?

    I would have to fully disagree up front on the it being the same from level 1 on ward as its just the most recent spells. That is simply not true. I have a 6 "bars" of spells, abilities and trinkets and I use them all at one time or another during combat. Granted I tend to used 5 or 6 predominately but even FF is the same exact way(if not worse). Life, is the same way. Although dont take that as my saying it has to stay that way. FPS games to some degree are the divergence from that but then an FPS is not an MMORPG.

    The stats are anything but superficial. Regardless what system you use its going to involve a "stat". Whether its your ping and jitter or strength and mana or even time played. They all have a bearing. Its the environment in which they are used and how that has a bearing. Not the simple fact they exist for this reason or that. one of the points of an MMORPG is to have some predictable consistency to a class. Its a social system. Unfortunately this is actually a mistake I think Sony has made with EQ2 in that they have somewhat destroyed the class system in EQ2 and in so doing the social aspect.

    You can still become an incredibly powerful character in the game capable of things groups are not capable of simply based off your knowledge of the game. Of course, as it should be, anyone is capable of that if they determine the right methodology. Also certain classes most definitely have advantages in "running full solo" that others do not. ie: necromancer. Just like the warlock in WoW, etc.

    The purpose of a business is to make money and any system that is F2P is going to do this or flat out die. If the comparison is for a single player game you buy once and dont look back then ok but if its an MMO... good luck because even the open source, GPL etc MMO "equivalents" out there are quite literally 20+ years behind. From and EQ2 perspective I dont quite get where the constant push for cash comes from as you see the upgrade window once in like 10 hours of play unlike most F2P and most all content can be purchased.

  • ClywdClywd Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Hopefully even SOE noticed that AoD finally killed the game...
    As there are even no devs anymore I personally gave up on eq2. Returned to eq1 while waiting for eq next :-/

    Currently playing: EverQuest
    Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • daeamarthdaeamarth Member Posts: 24

    Curious but what about AoD killed the game? Seemed to have a swarming of new features both in other games and new to it. Other than the paying customers having to buy it (par for the course for any remotely successful MMORPG, once they hook you...) it seems to have been a good expansion pack in my book. Just my opinion.

  • ClywdClywd Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Age of discovery:
    1. No new content for raiders/ highend gamers.
    2. Further dumbing down the game by adding mercenaries.
    3. Announcement that there will be no more expansions.
    4. Forcing subscribers to use the cash shop.

    You call that a good expansion for an Everquest game? Really?

    Currently playing: EverQuest
    Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907

    EQ2's biggest hurdle isn't design or payment options, EQ2's biggest problem is it's Owner SOE.

    There are quite a few MMO Gamers like myself that were loyal customers for years, then due to SOE's own actions, lack of actions, and poor choice of re-actions, they lost us as customers, some of us forever. Only way for EQ2 to fix that is to get a new Owner and that won't happen. SOE never sells it's MMOs to new Owners.

    What will work? waiting around and keeping the Servers up and running another 5 years or so... and by then most of those who left will be replaced by new, younger Gamers that don't carry baggage around from SOE.

    Everything else is just spinning their wheels and going nowhere.

  • daeamarthdaeamarth Member Posts: 24

    1)Expansions are not only about providing for raiding parties and high end gamers. Its about providing content that competes with other products. The likes of mercenaries etc was needed in EQ2.

    2)I agree dumbing down is a bad move in almost all cases but other than the mercs making it vastly easier to play (really needed due to no groups to be found) Im not sure it was dumbed down further. The general concept though I absolutely agree with.

    3)I saw no announcement of that for AoD, perhaps I missed it, but obviously its not true. There have been several others.

    4)Subscribers are not forced to use the cash shop. You are simply wrong on that. If you are pay to play the only thing you might need to buy are exp paks. Which I think subscribers should get as part of the subscription, absolutely. The rest of the items are not needed to play the game. Even less so that they are for free to play of which they are also not required.

  • KeyloggerKeylogger Member Posts: 250

    I had alot of fun in EQ2, but it has some serious issues, not the least of which is it's parent company.

    Giving $0E money makes me feel very, very, very dirty.

    And not in a good way.

  • CasualMakerCasualMaker Member UncommonPosts: 862
    Originally posted by Gardavsshade

    EQ2's biggest hurdle isn't design or payment options, EQ2's biggest problem is it's Owner SOE.

    Could be worse... could have NCsoft as its owner.

  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154

    EQ2 is 8 years old now, well past the time where you can significantly generate interest in a game.  Sadly, it was never the success it deserved during the KoS -> RoK era.  It still is probably one of the best games on the market to level a new character if you have never played it before, but its days of having a top endgame are gone.  


    And it just doesnt have the revenue to do much.  The cash shop and f2p model allows for some development still at least, and SoE will keep adding content as long as there is enough revenue to allow it (just look at EQ1).  AT least the new expansion isnt just a 'feature pack', they saw how poorly that went over and went back to a traditional (but sadly tiny looking) expansion.  

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