He is prob upset, cuse he knows if they create a PvE server, the PVP servers would be barren waste lands, Just like when Ultima Online released the Trammel Rule set, Felucca died..
(for those who dont know what UO is, Felucca was the original world, was open PVP full loot.. then they released Trammel an exact copy of Felucca, but no PvP no Full Loot, and Felucca died pretty much, i almost bet the same would happen in this game)
And here is the truth. Behold, as it is universal.
Every FFA open world PvP game would be more popular with consent-only PvP. Period.
Don't believe me? Prove me wrong. There are several examples (one in the quoted text above) to back me up and none that say otherwise.
They're not open world PvP games if its consensual.
Games like Salem and Darkfall are niche games, developers know it, players know, but theres still enough players out there who enjoy them for them to be made.
As for Ultima, even the dev's have said they wished they had never split the facets. That game is played more on player run servers than the official servers these days, why? because they run the old rulesets prior to the facet split...
They're not open world PvP games if its consensual.
Games like Salem and Darkfall are niche games, developers know it, players know, but theres still enough players out there who enjoy them for them to be made.
As for Ultima, even the dev's have said they wished they had never split the facets. That game is played more on player run servers than the official servers these days, why because they run the old rulesets prior to the facet split.
Can you link that statement, as I cannot seem to find it with google?
Ultima Online died because AoS made the game something it was not designed to be. It gained almost 100% more subscriptions after the launch of Renaissance (Trammel).
He is prob upset, cuse he knows if they create a PvE server, the PVP servers would be barren waste lands, Just like when Ultima Online released the Trammel Rule set, Felucca died..
(for those who dont know what UO is, Felucca was the original world, was open PVP full loot.. then they released Trammel an exact copy of Felucca, but no PvP no Full Loot, and Felucca died pretty much, i almost bet the same would happen in this game)
And here is the truth. Behold, as it is universal.
Every FFA open world PvP game would be more popular with consent-only PvP. Period.
Don't believe me? Prove me wrong. There are several examples (one in the quoted text above) to back me up and none that say otherwise.
Popular is not what some people look for. Some people DON'T want what other people want. NOT EVERY GAME HAS TO HAVE WOW NUMBERS! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
I know. Your best bet is to hope the devs are content into catering for the niche crowd and don't sell out to the masses.
As far as I have found its not "true" open PvP. You need to unlock that ability to attack another player, which requires time. So if you dont want to deal with PvP dont bother unlocking it, and avoid leaving Boston or stay near it, or even better, make friends and start a town. You know thats what real life people did to avoid raiders, they formed villages and worked in groups.
Mouse look dont work ingame for me, I see salem uses Java6 launching etc not 7.. anyone know of a fix for mouse looking around problems? Liked the idea of the game but the fact I could not rotate the screen at all was a bind..
Read on main forums with one thread about it but nobody seems to know anything much at all.
Can you link that statement, as I cannot seem to find it with google?
Ultima Online died because AoS made the game something it was not designed to be. It gained almost 100% more subscriptions after the launch of Renaissance (Trammel).
I read it many years ago on Uo stratics, feel free to wade through that, i believe it was one of the fem devs that said it.
Yes AoS was awful, but UO at that time had no real competition in the mmo market, once the pve games started flowing, then UO started emptying.
Can you link that statement, as I cannot seem to find it with google?
Ultima Online died because AoS made the game something it was not designed to be. It gained almost 100% more subscriptions after the launch of Renaissance (Trammel).
I read it many years ago on Uo stratics, feel free to wade through that, i believe it was one of the fem devs that said it.
Yes AoS was awful, but UO at that time had no real competition in the mmo market, once the pve games started flowing, then UO started emptying.
Still, you think UO would have retained their customer base better with Felucca only? Seriously?
Mouse look dont work ingame for me, I see salem uses Java6 launching etc not 7.. anyone know of a fix for mouse looking around problems? Liked the idea of the game but the fact I could not rotate the screen at all was a bind..
Read on main forums with one thread about it but nobody seems to know anything much at all.
You could install 6 if you dont need 7. I've ran it with 7 and middle mouse button worked fine for rotating the camera, so no idea why you can't.
Mouse look dont work ingame for me, I see salem uses Java6 launching etc not 7.. anyone know of a fix for mouse looking around problems? Liked the idea of the game but the fact I could not rotate the screen at all was a bind..
Read on main forums with one thread about it but nobody seems to know anything much at all.
Still, you think UO would have retained their customer base better with Felucca only? Seriously?
I believe it would have continued to be a fantastic sandbox MMO with one facet. It went with pve for profit and lost, but that's what you get from the likes of EA.
hmm wonder if its my razer mouse profile messing up.. middle mouse opened chat or did something else.. but I have java 6 and 7 on here, they get selected when whatever the applicaiton is called with whatever it needs, the forums say it was primarly working better and for java 6 and people had no end of trouble with java 7. I guess I can deselct the option for its use in its control panel and test.
I will try default profile on mouse software see what happens also
PVP is the game has to be learned. KO is diffrent you lose 2-3 ramdom skils and inventory but not permadeath. ONLY a HUman can permadeath you through the skill of Cain and babel which is the second hardest skill to learn. We are talking about a huge amount of time invested into a chartcer which many people may not even want to risk dyeing them selves. Permadeath in the game is ment to also wipe out these so called grifers. because what happens to highmen that gang together. Suprise town folk working together also work together to wipe out these grifers even permenatly. If your going around killing people its only a matter of time when these players get permadeath as well.
The whole game is designed around perma death, it would break without it. If you understood the game you would realise why, but its too tedious to explain. There will never be pve servers, I can garentee you that 100%.
It also must be too tedious to read the OP, as he said Permadeath was something he could deal with. It was the PVP he had an issue with.
I agree with him. I've been playing a couple hours a night and the game seems to open up new things for me to do each night. I look forward to playing each night but dread ever having to deal with the PVP in this game. Personally, I don't see the point of this game's PVP in its current state.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
He is prob upset, cuse he knows if they create a PvE server, the PVP servers would be barren waste lands, Just like when Ultima Online released the Trammel Rule set, Felucca died..
(for those who dont know what UO is, Felucca was the original world, was open PVP full loot.. then they released Trammel an exact copy of Felucca, but no PvP no Full Loot, and Felucca died pretty much, i almost bet the same would happen in this game)
And here is the truth. Behold, as it is universal.
Every FFA open world PvP game would be more popular with consent-only PvP. Period.
Don't believe me? Prove me wrong. There are several examples (one in the quoted text above) to back me up and none that say otherwise.
Asheron call 1 has full loot PVP, and PVE servers the game has been around since 1998, and the PVP server has always been busy compared to the PVE servers, so that is a prime example.
Again not all people who like PVP are griefers, I'm an anti PK, but I love PVP, I like to protect the weak, and fight the griefers its more challengeing that fighting the same boring AI that is out there..... So before you bash all PVPers do some research, I been gaming since the commadore days .
I don't mind PVP at all, even open PVP. What I mind in this game is perma-death. Now perma-death is a great mechanic in shorter games, it adds replay value especially in procedural generation models (see most roguelikes). But in this game where you potentially sink 100's of hours, to have it be ALL swept away after 1 death is a deterrent to even play. Think of the prospect of doing all that tedious grinding all over again. Most people, including me, won't. They will just say screw it, and never come back.
if you have played haven and hearth you would know how to avoid perma death pvp. salem is no differant, the main trick to avoid or aleast lessen the % you will get pked is to:
A) dont be an idiot and cause problems. (tresspass/steal stuff from people or talk trash to someone(s)
do not loiter near the main populated areas. (just dont sit anywhere that is open for pvp where alot of people are seen running around.. aka starting town)
C) team up with some trustworthy people who dont cause problems (see A... this can backfire at times but some raiders wont bother with a active village/town)
pretty much, start the game. complete the early noob guide. and then run off as far away as you can go from the main town(s) and find an area that seems quiet and empty to settle. while it wont prevent you being killed by creatures or players. the less populated and main path trecked it is, the less chance a random pk will just wanter by and whamp you for the fun of it.
while salem is alot harder on noobs then haven was. as you are required to find food and such to survive, and relocating is alittle hard at times. its not impossible to completely skip over pvp/pk.
the majorty of people who get pked deserve it. they either stole from someone and got caught or talked trash to the wrong person(s)
The whole game is designed around perma death, it would break without it. If you understood the game you would realise why, but its too tedious to explain. There will never be pve servers, I can garentee you that 100%.
however I was thinking about this other day and in theory there is a way you can play and never get killed. you could live as a player trader, stay perminantly in boston. buy and sell things you need, especially with new player owned shops. it would probably be quite tedious, as its not what the game is designed for its in interesting thought anyway
Perma death does not neccesarily mean you must have PvP, you can make a PvE only game with permadeath that might be good.
Problem here however is that the game is made for permadeath and PvP, taking out the PvP of a PvP game usually leaves it a bleak shadow of what it should be, a bit like taking all PvE out of Wow.
If Salem were made to have PvE servers from the beginning things would be different but like it is OPs idea is terrible.
The whole game is designed around perma death, it would break without it. If you understood the game you would realise why, but its too tedious to explain. There will never be pve servers, I can garentee you that 100%.
It also must be too tedious to read the OP, as he said Permadeath was something he could deal with. It was the PVP he had an issue with.
I agree with him. I've been playing a couple hours a night and the game seems to open up new things for me to do each night. I look forward to playing each night but dread ever having to deal with the PVP in this game. Personally, I don't see the point of this game's PVP in its current state.
PvP in a permadeath system gives every player an option and responsibility to think of their actions.
It adds a whole new dimension compared to a strictly PvE locked system.
It's nice that if someone steals from you or scamms you, you have an option to hunt him down and kill him.
It's good that there are consequences. There are too little consequences on the internet and there are thousands of games you can play without any direct consequence to your actions. That's why internet can be such a dump hole anyway.
I wouldn't even touch PvE server. No reason, might as well play WoW.
Isn't this a crafting game? how did pvp and permadeath find its way into a crafting game?
Since it's pvp+ftp there will be griefers, most likely groups of them on top of that. How do they expect to deal with this?
devs dont do anything with griefers. basicly if you want to grief/spawn camp you can. its up to the playerbase to deal with you. which they do, to some extent. the problem comes from the fact as the game ages fewer and fewer people bother helping noobs out as most tend to view noobs as expendable or possible alt/spies.
from what i understand reading the forums, some of the early testers(guys from HnH) started spawncamping the jamestown "boston" until players forced them to leave. so the full loot pvp in this game is pretty destructive. ultimately the most costly item in the game is the toon. all items can be bought/found/crafted or stolen so apart from the normal high-low trading of items for items. nothing in the game outside of the actual toon has real value.
so you can craft all you want, just dont expect to get a "free from pvp" card or assume you wont ever get attacked/raided/pked in salem
Originally posted by Hodo As far as I have found its not "true" open PvP. You need to unlock that ability to attack another player, which requires time. So if you dont want to deal with PvP dont bother unlocking it, and avoid leaving Boston or stay near it, or even better, make friends and start a town. You know thats what real life people did to avoid raiders, they formed villages and worked in groups.
Ok, if I read this correctly:
You need to unlock an ability to be able to attack others, but others (who have unlocked it) can still attak you, hence the "don't leave town" comment? That's bloody retarded.
A PvP game where you appearently have to spend a lot of time to unlock the PvP ability...
Originally posted by Hodo As far as I have found its not "true" open PvP. You need to unlock that ability to attack another player, which requires time. So if you dont want to deal with PvP dont bother unlocking it, and avoid leaving Boston or stay near it, or even better, make friends and start a town. You know thats what real life people did to avoid raiders, they formed villages and worked in groups.
Ok, if I read this correctly:
You need to unlock an ability to be able to attack others, but others (who have unlocked it) can still attak you, hence the "don't leave town" comment? That's bloody retarded.
A PvP game where you appearently have to spend a lot of time to unlock the PvP ability...
Lmfao.
Actualy it's a feature well done. In a (permadeath) system like this it has to be relatively easy to survive if you wish so and ability to kill someone needs to be penalised. It is good that people have to spend some time on their toon before they can attack somene else, otherwise any noob could make an alt and go grief.
To me it seems the retardation lies elsewhere.
ps. Those who come to this game just for PvP are either confused or hardcore to the bone.
Comments
They're not open world PvP games if its consensual.
Games like Salem and Darkfall are niche games, developers know it, players know, but theres still enough players out there who enjoy them for them to be made.
As for Ultima, even the dev's have said they wished they had never split the facets. That game is played more on player run servers than the official servers these days, why? because they run the old rulesets prior to the facet split...
Can you link that statement, as I cannot seem to find it with google?
Ultima Online died because AoS made the game something it was not designed to be. It gained almost 100% more subscriptions after the launch of Renaissance (Trammel).
I know. Your best bet is to hope the devs are content into catering for the niche crowd and don't sell out to the masses.
So much crap, so little quality.
Mouse look dont work ingame for me, I see salem uses Java6 launching etc not 7.. anyone know of a fix for mouse looking around problems? Liked the idea of the game but the fact I could not rotate the screen at all was a bind..
Read on main forums with one thread about it but nobody seems to know anything much at all.
I read it many years ago on Uo stratics, feel free to wade through that, i believe it was one of the fem devs that said it.
Yes AoS was awful, but UO at that time had no real competition in the mmo market, once the pve games started flowing, then UO started emptying.
Still, you think UO would have retained their customer base better with Felucca only? Seriously?
You could install 6 if you dont need 7. I've ran it with 7 and middle mouse button worked fine for rotating the camera, so no idea why you can't.
Hold down middlemouse button to rotate the view.
I believe it would have continued to be a fantastic sandbox MMO with one facet. It went with pve for profit and lost, but that's what you get from the likes of EA.
hmm wonder if its my razer mouse profile messing up.. middle mouse opened chat or did something else.. but I have java 6 and 7 on here, they get selected when whatever the applicaiton is called with whatever it needs, the forums say it was primarly working better and for java 6 and people had no end of trouble with java 7. I guess I can deselct the option for its use in its control panel and test.
I will try default profile on mouse software see what happens also
It also must be too tedious to read the OP, as he said Permadeath was something he could deal with. It was the PVP he had an issue with.
I agree with him. I've been playing a couple hours a night and the game seems to open up new things for me to do each night. I look forward to playing each night but dread ever having to deal with the PVP in this game. Personally, I don't see the point of this game's PVP in its current state.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Its Abel, not babel.
So much crap, so little quality.
Asheron call 1 has full loot PVP, and PVE servers the game has been around since 1998, and the PVP server has always been busy compared to the PVE servers, so that is a prime example.
Again not all people who like PVP are griefers, I'm an anti PK, but I love PVP, I like to protect the weak, and fight the griefers its more challengeing that fighting the same boring AI that is out there..... So before you bash all PVPers do some research, I been gaming since the commadore days .
if you have played haven and hearth you would know how to avoid perma death pvp. salem is no differant, the main trick to avoid or aleast lessen the % you will get pked is to:
A) dont be an idiot and cause problems. (tresspass/steal stuff from people or talk trash to someone(s)
C) team up with some trustworthy people who dont cause problems (see A... this can backfire at times but some raiders wont bother with a active village/town)
pretty much, start the game. complete the early noob guide. and then run off as far away as you can go from the main town(s) and find an area that seems quiet and empty to settle. while it wont prevent you being killed by creatures or players. the less populated and main path trecked it is, the less chance a random pk will just wanter by and whamp you for the fun of it.
while salem is alot harder on noobs then haven was. as you are required to find food and such to survive, and relocating is alittle hard at times. its not impossible to completely skip over pvp/pk.
the majorty of people who get pked deserve it. they either stole from someone and got caught or talked trash to the wrong person(s)
Perma death does not neccesarily mean you must have PvP, you can make a PvE only game with permadeath that might be good.
Problem here however is that the game is made for permadeath and PvP, taking out the PvP of a PvP game usually leaves it a bleak shadow of what it should be, a bit like taking all PvE out of Wow.
If Salem were made to have PvE servers from the beginning things would be different but like it is OPs idea is terrible.
Well what's the PvP for as is?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
PvP in a permadeath system gives every player an option and responsibility to think of their actions.
It adds a whole new dimension compared to a strictly PvE locked system.
It's nice that if someone steals from you or scamms you, you have an option to hunt him down and kill him.
It's good that there are consequences. There are too little consequences on the internet and there are thousands of games you can play without any direct consequence to your actions. That's why internet can be such a dump hole anyway.
I wouldn't even touch PvE server. No reason, might as well play WoW.
Isn't this a crafting game? how did pvp and permadeath find its way into a crafting game?
Since it's pvp+ftp there will be griefers, most likely groups of them on top of that. How do they expect to deal with this?
devs dont do anything with griefers. basicly if you want to grief/spawn camp you can. its up to the playerbase to deal with you. which they do, to some extent. the problem comes from the fact as the game ages fewer and fewer people bother helping noobs out as most tend to view noobs as expendable or possible alt/spies.
from what i understand reading the forums, some of the early testers(guys from HnH) started spawncamping the jamestown "boston" until players forced them to leave. so the full loot pvp in this game is pretty destructive. ultimately the most costly item in the game is the toon. all items can be bought/found/crafted or stolen so apart from the normal high-low trading of items for items. nothing in the game outside of the actual toon has real value.
so you can craft all you want, just dont expect to get a "free from pvp" card or assume you wont ever get attacked/raided/pked in salem
Ok, if I read this correctly:
You need to unlock an ability to be able to attack others, but others (who have unlocked it) can still attak you, hence the "don't leave town" comment? That's bloody retarded.
A PvP game where you appearently have to spend a lot of time to unlock the PvP ability...
Lmfao.
Actualy it's a feature well done. In a (permadeath) system like this it has to be relatively easy to survive if you wish so and ability to kill someone needs to be penalised. It is good that people have to spend some time on their toon before they can attack somene else, otherwise any noob could make an alt and go grief.
To me it seems the retardation lies elsewhere.
ps. Those who come to this game just for PvP are either confused or hardcore to the bone.