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Oh the drama...

WoWisLEETWoWisLEET Member Posts: 68

http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=e366265bdf8c1cbff4d43097c6c428e5&threadid=18261

Well seems like the community, including one of the more popular mods, has just about had it with the US distributer of Mourning...

edit:  The original poster is no longer a moderator.

edit2: changed to new reposted link (original was deleted)

«134

Comments

  • WarcriminalWarcriminal Member Posts: 244

    holy crap

     

    This is good quality DRAMA!!!! imageimageimage

  • GrunchGrunch Member Posts: 493

    Here is spoon benders post thought to copy paste it incase Dave deletes yet another post over there.

    "You want news? I'll give you news

    I have given up on this game, for a lot of reasons. I know a lot of people respect me, and my word carries a lot of weight. i can't support this game. I don't want to be the reason countless people buy the game

    Let me be absolutely clear on a few points though. There is a game. It's not yet ready for release, but the devs are working their asses off because they want the game to succeed. This is not why I give up. In fact, the devs are the main reason I've stayed on for so long. Because I like them and trust them, and because I thought they deserved this chance.

    But how can a game succeed when the US publisher is the biggest jerk on the face of the planet? A man who has no respect for rules, even when they're his own, and even less respect for his own customers, and less still for the people trying to work with him?

    I've spent months now, trying to keep people from leaving the community in disgust every time that man opened his mouth. I can't keep up with this level of superhuman stupidity and incompetence.

    As a community member, I have to deal with him pissing us all off with arrogant and offensive remarks. I have to deal with this kind of person being in charge of a game I'm interested in. I don't trust him to hire decent GM's. I don't trust him to buy decent servers. I don't trust him to fund the development long enough to get the game to a playable state.

    As a beta tester, I'm still tied by the NDA, and I respect that, for the devs' sake. But I can say that you should all be glad you're not testers, because then you'd have to put up with even more of Dave's crap. You saw what happened with the videos. Some of us get permission to post screenshots and videos, and when we do, he insult us, and tell us not to post any more of either.

    As a moderator? Well, don't even get me started. Again, I can't and won't give you any details, because unlike Dave, I have a minimum of respect for rules. But let's just say that if we could, and I speak for *every* mod here, and a few of the devs, we would have banned him countless times already.
    And let's just say that you are extremely lucky you don't have to deal with him on the moderators board. We've always tried to compensate for his incompetence, apologize when he did something stupid, and in general, try to help people deal with the fact of having him in charge.
    In return, we just have to put up with more crap. We have to put up with personal abuse, general insults, with the fact that the one person who most deserves a ban is outside the rules. We have to put up with him changing the rules on the forum with no prior notice to us. We have to put up with him randomly deleting threads he doesn't like. We have to put up with him making a new account every week. We have to put up with him deleting an entire subforum for no particular reason, and without ever giving an explanation. We have to deal with him banning people (and moderators), and occasionally even deleting their account completely. We have to put up with being told that we simply don't matter.
    [edit]
    After posting this, I noticed that he has now even deleted a thread on the moderators forum. We complained about his recent actions, and even there, he deletes threads.
    [/edit]

    A lot of you have asked why I haven't preordered. My answer has always been that I never preorder a MMO. That is true, but it's not the full story. The other part of it is that the way things are going now, it's not worth preordering. Not because the devs intend to s-c-a-m you, or because the game doesn't exist, or because the CC handling company is a registered spammer, or any of the other crazy conspiracy theories that are floating around. Simply because the man in chargeof the American release (which is the only one you can preorder) is the most incompetent publisher I've ever seen.

    To summarize:
    You probably all know how big a part of a MMO customer service and GM's play. And guess who's in charge of this. You also know how important it is that the devs are given time to develop the game. Guess who makes this decision as well.
    You've seen the screenshots and the movies. Make up your own mind on what they show, what they don't show, how they show it, and what it means for the game.
    You've seen their estimates on how many people to invite to beta, and how long it should run for. Compare that to how other games run their beta, and make up your own mind on what that means for the game.


    So, in closing, I'll just ask you all to consider this game from an objective point of view. Forget the conspiracy theories. Forget the blind fanboy'ism and forget the people who just want to flame the game. Stick to what you know. Stick to the available screenshots and movies, the info available from devs, the way they keep their promises, the way the publisher acts, the way the community is treated.
    Then ask yourself this: Is it worth waiting for? Is it worth preordering?

    I know it's not worth it for me.
    It sucks, because the devs are good people, and the ideas behind the game are good. But I don't believe they can pull it off while Dave is involved with the project.
    And for that reason, they shouldn't count on my support any more. If, as Dave says, we moderators aren't important, then there's no harm in me telling everyone why I don't believe in the game. The man in charge has told me nothing I do matters.

    I'm just sorry I led so many of you into giving this a second, third or twentieth chance when it clearly doesn't deserve it.
    And I'm sorry for the devs who have their dream game tied up on a person like this.

    Finally, I suppose I should just mention that I am completely serious in the above. I am not using all this as some kind of threat to get Admini to get his act together, because I don't believe for a second it will happen. I don't trust him to be able to do anything like that.
    It is simply what it appears to be, a warning to the community. A warning from someone who's been here longer than most, and had to put up with more than most.

    Important edit: (A bit of clarification)
    All of this obviously only deals with the US publisher. I've heard lots of good things about Gamigo, the publisher in Europe/Canada. And as I said, the devs are great, the ideas behind the game are great. So with any luck, the game can get the success it deserves there.

    One of my main reasons for all this is that I don't want to be the reason people follow the game. I don't want to be blamed for luring people into believing all is well. I have no wish to hurt the game or the devs. I know that is what I've done, but I never wanted to do so.

    I'm not saying the game is doomed. I am saying that I believe it to be doomed, in the US, at least.
    Not the "I believe" part. It's up to each of you to decide what you believe."

    "I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  • Lord_AraLord_Ara Member Posts: 73
    it most certainly did get deleted, did he really believe he could contain this by deleting it and not trying to fix it.

    ...in the end there was no Good and Evil only living and dead...

  • BoogieBoogie Member Posts: 14

    Heh , the link is invalid . . . .  Who would have guessed image

     

     

    Who the hell is Dave ?  ( Rhetorical question ;) )

    Rather rule in hell , than serve in heaven

  • IckehaltIckehalt Member Posts: 2

    thank you for posting it over here. i also have made a copy of the post on my harddisk, just in case.

    i am feeling sorry for the mourning developers and i wish them good luck but i hope that admini has no success with his tactics, that would mean no success for mourning but... oh well. :(

    there is still a good chance for the european market. lets hope that they do better over here. :)

  • ShrubberShrubber Member Posts: 219

    Case in point, mourning fanboys, that the moderator/dev team is nazi and censors things they dont argee with.::::32::

  • RubycatRubycat Member Posts: 223

    you would of had to seen the whole thing to notice Tiamat did not want the thread closed (it was reopened). for discussion to continue then it just dissapeared

    -all eyes lay on Admini/Dave

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Shrubber
    Case in point, mourning fanboys, that the moderator/dev team is nazi and censors things they dont argee with.::::32::

    Do you have a reading problem or something? He just clearly stated over and over the Dev's have been hindered by the US publisher and Dave (Admini) is the one that has been doing all the nazi tactics on the forums. Dave being the american publisher. Even I got that and I don't follow Mourning what so ever!

    If that mod is being honest, Mourning is screwed in the US. That post shed a whole new light on things for me about what has been going on. And it would also explain the poor choice of CC company, since it was probably Dave that decided to go with the 2 bit credit card outfit.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ShrubberShrubber Member Posts: 219

    The point is that his fellow admins didnt even let him express himself.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    The more I read spoons posts over the last few weeks the more it became apparent he was a lone voice of reason amid the madness of the Mourning forums.

    Whilst every major drama this game has gives me tiny smile inside, because the arrogance of the people behind it publically getting their just deserts is so satisfying, I feel really sorry for both the players and people like Spoon.

    As for blaming the US publishers, well all I can say is I dont know what the "truth" is but I do know there is another thread right here that offers some sugestions about the broad range of excuses they could use they havnt tried yet. Right now its looking more and more like reality and less like a joke all the time.

    Not gonna take many more events like this and the drama of the development will be more exciting than the game itself.image

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Shrubber
    The point is that his fellow admins didnt even let him express himself.

    What are you talking about? His fellow moderators were in the same boat he was in, he just coulnd't do it anymore. Dave (aka "Admini") is censoring peple left and right on the forum, and Dave is the publisher here in the US.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ShrubberShrubber Member Posts: 219

    So only Dave is behind this? Did all the other mods quit?

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    This one is for you Superhero13

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote: by Spoonbender

    "I'm just sorry I led so many of you into giving this a second, third or twentieth chance when it clearly doesn't deserve it."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    image

    Id say that pretty much "de-trolls" me then. I have been saying exactly that in my own strangely illeterate and gibbering way for weeks.image 

    No longer alleged trolling..... now a confirmed statement of fact

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Shrubber
    So only Dave is behind this? Did all the other mods quit?

    Behind what? The bans and killed posts, along with alot of the rudeness to players? Thats what he seems to be saying, do you know otherwise that someone other then him has been a major problem with this? You keep changing your song and throwing questions back at me instead of staying with your original statement, do you have something that would indicate that the dev's were the ones causing all the problems and not him?

    I said you didnt read it right, because you said "see, proof that the dev's and mods are doing it" and the post was completely about something opposite of that. Now your changing your angle on me to try to not have to defend that original stance. Make up my mind.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • DerfelCadarnDerfelCadarn Member Posts: 875

    This is really funny, there are so many post on the general board being deleted/reposted.::::18::::::18::::::18::

  • ArtarylArtaryl Member Posts: 66

    Oh man, why did you bring this here?

    Mourning doesn't deserve getting this over any board that ain't the official boards of mourning. Actually, you are making everything worse by doing this and the dev doesn,t deserve this.

  • SpoonbenderSpoonbender Member Posts: 13


    Originally posted by Razorback
    This one is for you Superhero13
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote: by Spoonbender
    "I'm just sorry I led so many of you into giving this a second, third or twentieth chance when it clearly doesn't deserve it."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    image
    Id say that pretty much "de-trolls" me then. I have been saying exactly that in my own strangely illeterate and gibbering way for weeks.image
    No longer alleged trolling..... now a confirmed statement of fact

    Nope. The difference is that I have a bit more info on what has been going on than you do. The game has a problem with the publisher, and for that reason, I shouldn't have encouraged people to give the game more chances.

    That doesn't mean that your average forum troll saying the game is a scam is also right. Because your average forum troll doesn't have access to beta or moderator forums there... ;)
    No offense, of course. And I haven't actually read your posts, so it might not even apply to you. As you can probably imagine, I'm pretty busy at the moment. :)

    Life is like a grapefruit. It's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have half a one for breakfast

  • BoogieBoogie Member Posts: 14

    They should fire the idiot . . . and get a new publisher . imageimage

     

     

    I know its not a possibillity . . .  This HAD all what i was lookin for , its not a game anymore but the laughing stock of the gaming comunity. . .  Everytime I mention Mourning to my gaming buddies (and I have a few )  they roll on the floor laughing pounding their fist to the floor and inbetween the laugh induced tears and chuckles i can vaguely make out "good luck" . . . . . .

     

     

    Shame

    Rather rule in hell , than serve in heaven

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    Thanks Spoon I appreciate your response. I have gained a lot of respect for you over the past few weeks as it became increasingly obvious that you were attempting to bring some reason to a pretty mad situation on the Mourning boards.

    My comments to Superhero13 are based on the fact that he has been randomly appearing on this topc now and then to call anyone who says "handle Mourning with caution" a Troll! In addition to this he claims to have been an Alpha tester (which may be true) and that on his say so alone the rest of us should shut up and get in line to worship at the alter of Mourning.

    Your right that I dont know whats going on behind the scenes. But it doesnt take a rhodes scholar to read between the lines on the forums and see that something has been VERY wrong for some time. Because most of the people who make this observation on the Mourning boards are more often than not immediately temp banned and the very least flamed into submission, I have chosen to make my observations here.

    I encourage you to read back through my posts (if you care) because I have never said Mourning was a "scam" or "vapourware" or any of that nonsense. I have simply put my considered view that this is a title that folks should wait to see on the shelves. Mainly because its clear that if you cant organise a forum without it becoming an international talking point for all the wrong reasons, then your unlikely to be able to organise an MMO. Whoever is ultimatley responsible for pulling the strings behind Mourning, its clear that they are struggling with the issues of marketing and information release. Given that these issues are likely to be far simpler than those of actually developing and running a game it does not bode well for the players in the early stages of beta and or release.

    You yourself have explained why you do not "pre-order" MMO's and I agree 100%. I have simply argued that Mourning not only fits these reasons, it is a recent example of the worst case scenario for these reasons and more. All you have done with your action is confirm my suspicions. The very suspicions I have been airing here for weeks.

    I dont appreciate being labeled a "troll" for my trouble and that is why I took the opportunity to point out that if the posts I have made are "trolling" then yours must be the ultimate troll post of all time.

    We both know its not.... maybe its childish of me to throw in an "I told you so" but I will hand it to Superhero13 he has gotten under my skin with his BS of late. I guess I should learn to be more tollerant of children.

    Best of luck with your future in relation to Mourning Spoon. Maybe Ill see you in the game if and when it releases. I wish the game every success and I always have. I like all dedicated MMO players would like to see Mourning be all it can be.

    I just try to keep in mind that promising all sorts of stuff is different to deliveing it, many younger players forget that, I do what I can to remind them. Although sometimes I wonder why I bother image

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Spoonbender
    Originally posted by Razorback
    This one is for you Superhero13
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote: by Spoonbender
    "I'm just sorry I led so many of you into giving this a second, third or twentieth chance when it clearly doesn't deserve it."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    image
    Id say that pretty much "de-trolls" me then. I have been saying exactly that in my own strangely illeterate and gibbering way for weeks.image
    No longer alleged trolling..... now a confirmed statement of fact

    Nope. The difference is that I have a bit more info on what has been going on than you do. The game has a problem with the publisher, and for that reason, I shouldn't have encouraged people to give the game more chances.

    That doesn't mean that your average forum troll saying the game is a scam is also right. Because your average forum troll doesn't have access to beta or moderator forums there... ;)
    No offense, of course. And I haven't actually read your posts, so it might not even apply to you. As you can probably imagine, I'm pretty busy at the moment. :)


    Welcome to the party over here Spoon, good to see you. Let me just say that Razor generally doesn't troll and posts pretty contructively. superhero, well, he I can't make such claims for, but your welcome to go check the threads yourself and see what both have had to say. I myself have made a FEW comments about Mourning, I have never bought into the scam theory and feel it has been rediculous from the start. There are far easier ways to scam cash out of fools. Your post however explained alot, and cleared a lot of things up to me. And I say that as a non fan.

    I have nothing against mourning, I have just never had any interest in it. But at current rate I am starting too *chuckles*.

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253



    Originally posted by Fadeus



     

    Welcome to the party over here Spoon, good to see you. Let me just say that Razor generally doesn't troll and posts pretty contructively.


    Um thanks....... I think image 

    lol image

    +-+-+-+-+-+
    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
    image
    -+-+-+-+-+-+
    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Razorback
    Originally posted by Fadeus
    Welcome to the party over here Spoon, good to see you. Let me just say that Razor generally doesn't troll and posts pretty contructively.
    Um thanks....... I think image
    lol image

    Well dam, if I made it sound too good I would have gotten accused of being a fanboi somehow!

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • notalentnotalent Member Posts: 123

    i dont even care whats goin on with mourning anymore..too much bullshit. too many things were done wrong/poorly. its a joke. i canceled my preorder and i guess ill just wait to see how things turn out..and if somehow everything works out well (::::02::) then ill try it out. until then i could care less ::::20::

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