Originally posted by Istavaan nobody has even played end game yet. The end game gear will be better, it just wont be astronomically better like it is in wow, which puts other players at a severe disadvantage.
i dont know how else to say this... different strokes for different folks
some gamers enjoy having a big advantage due to their gear (I'm not one of them)
I preferred the way it was in SWG, rare resources created gear with a slight advantage. We're only talking about a few single digit numbers though, 80% rather than 75% as an example, or legendary weapons with dots that were very rare drops. None of it was needed to be useful, it was something there as a reward for the time/credits put in to aquire it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by NadiaOriginally posted by Istavaan nobody has even played end game yet. The end game gear will be better, it just wont be astronomically better like it is in wow, which puts other players at a severe disadvantage.
i dont know how else to say this... different strokes for different folkssome gamers enjoy having a big advantage due to their gear (I'm not one of them)I preferred the way it was in SWG, rare resources created gear with a slight advantage. We're only talking about a few single digit numbers though, 80% rather than 75% as an example, or legendary weapons with dots that were very rare drops. None of it was neede to be useful, it just was something there as a reward for the time/credits put in to aquire it. Yep. And the beauty of it was that it was finite. Gear degraded and eventually broke with enough use. You replaced gear because you wore it out. Now some patch comes out and your gear is garbage because of obsolete stats.
so what would you call the legendary weapons and gear sets? how is that not gear progression?
There is a hamster wheel, the legendary gear looks better than any other gear..this hamster wheel is visual rather than numerical. Some gamers only know wow and trying to unbrainwash them is impossible.
The key word here is progression, or gear that progresses your character's abilities. This is something GW2 doesn't have.
Yes it does. Gear progression exists and is an important part of GW2. It plateaus at some point though. Getting that first set of top end gear will still give players a goal once they hit 80. Different builds will still require different gear and therefor will require the aquisition of different top end gear.
I don't know why people say it has "no" gear progression. They don't add a new gear treadmill requirement every 3 - 6 months to experience new content, but there is definitely progression.
Well I was thinking end-game progression which is what gear grinding has offered. With statements like the plateau of gear at 80, it seems as though progression stops there in terms of gear. As the guy who I replied to even stated visuual rather than numerical.
If we look at WoW, it's like gearing up in their end game raid to get the best gear in the game. Except when the next content patch hits, you can use that same gear instead of having to aquire new gear for the new raid.
I believe they said they were planning on raising the level cap once and expansion actually hits, so I expect that there will actually be new gear at that point. People just seem to be twisting things up for some reason.
Originally posted by Istavaan nobody has even played end game yet. The end game gear will be better, it just wont be astronomically better like it is in wow, which puts other players at a severe disadvantage.
i dont know how else to say this... different strokes for different folkssome gamers enjoy having a big advantage due to their gear (I'm not one of them)
I preferred the way it was in SWG, rare resources created gear with a slight advantage. We're only talking about a few single digit numbers though, 80% rather than 75% as an example, or legendary weapons with dots that were very rare drops. None of it was neede to be useful, it just was something there as a reward for the time/credits put in to aquire it.
Yep. And the beauty of it was that it was finite. Gear degraded and eventually broke with enough use. You replaced gear because you wore it out. Now some patch comes out and your gear is garbage because of obsolete stats.
Good points Foom.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
so what would you call the legendary weapons and gear sets? how is that not gear progression?
in GW2 - everyone is balanced for power
theres no mandatory gear hamster wheels
some gamers like those mandatory hamster wheels
There is a hamster wheel, the legendary gear looks better than any other gear..this hamster wheel is visual rather than numerical. Some gamers only know wow and trying to unbrainwash them is impossible.
Typically hardcore raiders are number crunchers and min maxers. They would use anything if stats are 1% better. And the other reason they play is that they want to be first killing the new raid boss. Server first, maybe. Or world first if they are really elit and hardcore.
A visual "hamster wheel" will not work for players like that. They will want the new gear to help them do 1% more damage..or survive better. They will sometimes spend more time trying to figure out how to min max the character and gear than playing the game. So that they can beat the players in that other guild when trying to kill the new boss. Or so that they can boast about the numbers and stats...
No. GW2 will probably not be the best choice for that type of PvE-player.
Some of you are having delusions of grandeur. If you think for one minute that WoW will go with a free to play model due to Gw2, you have just lost your mind. If you think that they won't have ridiculous sales of MoP you are out of your trees. You're letting the small group of people on this forum confuse you about how popular that game is.
If I mention World of Warcraft to ANYONE.. they know what it is. Even family members at get togethers. My 63 year Aunt knows what WoW is. If I mention Guild Wars... a few people even know what the hell I'm talking about. I'm not saying this is everything, but my Aunt is not buying my 13 year old nephew Guild Wars 2... she's buying him WoW cause he won't shut the hell up about it. I was with him the other day and he asked me what I'm currently playing. I told him I was messing around with TSW and was buying Gw2 later this month to jump into that. You know what he said? What is TSW and What is Guild Wars. Now granted, I don't necessarily want a bunch of 13-15 y/o's playing either..lol, I'm just saying, they don't even know what it is.
Warcraft is going nowhere. When Mist comes out, they WILL jump back up over 11 million easily. Just because you hate the game doesn't mean you have to lie to yourself. Just do what I'll be doing. Play Gw2 and be happy.
Oh joy, I was wondering when these sorts of posts would jump up. I'll say the same thing rabid fanbois said about WAR, AOC, RIFT, SWTOR, when this subject comes up.
For those who have left WOW behind or don't like it, it's difficult to fully understand the hold it has on people. I was personally adicted to it for a year and half. Why is that? There are a number of reasons, it offers a decent amount of different content, (PVP, PVE, exploring, crafting), is accessible, but the biggest reason it has done well is because it offered a lot of those things in a time when many of it's rivals were screwing up left right and centre. That means a lot of people have been loyal to it and a lot of people play, which means your more likely to find people you like to play with. Hence why most people stay with the game, it's usually the community over any content that is the lifeblood of a MMO.
Blizzard have been smart here, there releasing MOP a month after GW2. At best GW2 will have four weeks to prove their game offers more then something like WOW does to the expat. It frankly isn't enough, most of those people who were curious will go back for MOP.
Why? Because for all their high concept talk GW2 doesn't offer that much of a different experience then WOW does, or more of a better experience I should say. The quest system is a reverse of what themeparks have been doing for years, there really isn't much joy in running into another area and finding yet another kill lots of these quests, or help farmer John quest. At least WOW generally gives you a context to what your doing. The PVE is essentially the same as WOW's, you have dungeons and 'hard' dungeons, same as WOW. PVP is battleground based, or Arena style. Why would anyone who likes WOW hang around for that? Hang around in fact to form new communites, communties diverse enough to have people you might like to game with.
WOW is an old game now and will slowly fade away, it;s very dated in many ways and the developers can only keep recycling content for so long, but GW2 is not going to make a dent because it's not as different in a better way to attract WOW fans away.
Or actually it gives context but you prefer to ignore it.
And lets ignore the joy of playing with your level 2 friend with your level 20 character, receiving level appropriate loot, not ruining their experience and still be challanged, all this taking 30 seconds to teleport to your friend from the other side of the world.
WoW PvE experience is solo questing, GW PvE experience is playing with a few or hundreds of other players, without wasting time looking for parties.
You should probably reread what I wrote rather then picking bits out that offended you.
I'm talking about it from a WOW players perspective, which is what this threads about, not about whether you,or I ,like GW2 and if its features are any good.
Put it this way, if your in a WOW guild and you play GW2 do you think there's enough different features which are that much better, too stop you playing WOW and walking away from those people there, to start afreash in GW2? I don't think so.
If you are tired of WoW, if you want to save money, if you want something different people will - they are and they have been.
Do you think that the current 9 million subs are people that played all the time? Some will, but many aren't.
What that means is that WoW has been losing subs since pretty much day 1, but they have been getting new subs at a faster rate.
Not anymore - proof is a negative 3 million subs turnaround for the last years.
GW2 might not be incredible enough to pinch players still having fun with WoW but it is good enough for new players considering a MMORPG to choose GW2 instead of WoW.
It is also good enough for players of WoW to try it and good enough to grab some of those players that believe they would play both since only WoW has subs.
It is also good enough to prevent people that left returning to WoW.
It also has superior PvP and superior Questing system for PvPers and quester/leveller PvErs.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Illyssia I think GW2 launch is going to crucify the Panda expansion and force that company to a free-to-play model.
So instead of enjoying GW2 when it comes out, all your enjoyment will be concentrated on some other game being destroyed or harmed in any possible way? So once you split from your mate and now you are very happy when something bad happen to him despite she/he has become your past? Great attitude. But not only yours, human kind it looks have genetical potential for this. But at least shrinks will be always in demand and never bee out of money, just as lawyers.
wow is like rome can only really be devoured from within, the barbarians(other mmos) are really only there to pillage whatever is left. but just remember eq1 is still around way after it probably should have been and even with its own "pandaran expansions" is still considered decent.
Like someone else pointed out hardly any teen I know knows guildwars 2. They all play WoW or waiting to play pandas. Mists will make a tonne of money as their other expansions have.
If we look at WoW, it's like gearing up in their end game raid to get the best gear in the game. Except when the next content patch hits, you can use that same gear instead of having to aquire new gear for the new raid.
I believe they said they were planning on raising the level cap once and expansion actually hits, so I expect that there will actually be new gear at that point. People just seem to be twisting things up for some reason.
And what's fantastic compared to all other theme parks is that those level increases will NOT make old content obsolete... if you want to go back to that old area you liked so much, you can still gain XP and loot there.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The juxtoposition of timing is going to produce an awful lot of toldyasos....and false conclusions too.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Hurvart Typically hardcore raiders are number crunchers and min maxers. They would use anything if stats are 1% better. And the other reason they play is that they want to be first killing the new raid boss. Server first, maybe. Or world first if they are really elit and hardcore.A visual "hamster wheel" will not work for players like that. They will want the new gear to help them do 1% more damage..or survive better. They will sometimes spend more time trying to figure out how to min max the character and gear than playing the game. So that they can beat the players in that other guild when trying to kill the new boss. Or so that they can boast about the numbers and stats...No. GW2 will probably not be the best choice for that type of PvE-player.
QFE, I think this will be another reason why hardcore PvP'ers would rather stick with WoW as well. While GW2 certainly looks to be more fair and casual-friendly (i.e. not having to put in hours upon hours of grinding to be competitive) I just don't see "visual upgrades" being enough to lure the hardcore players away from WoW or hold any lasting appeal.
I don't doubt that many will play both but I'm willing to bet that the game that allows statistical character advancement at endgame is more likely to be a player's "main MMO" compared to a game they can race to cap, then drop entirely for an untold amount of time and upon return still be on equal footing gear-wise.
GW2 will be a wonderful diversion MMO while it's the new hotness but the 3-6 month mark is when server activity will be a real sign as to how focused the majority of players are on this game.
I think GW2 will only suck handfuls of players from other games on a full-time basis. It will become a solid "second MMO" though. With a LOT of players staying with their current favourite but casually playing GW2 on non-raid days & other non-guild event days.
I honestly don't think it'll impact massively upon the Mists of Pandaria either, WoW fans will return in droves from other titles they have been playing to try it out & then as the content from it is consumed gradually bleed back out again, much as it has historically around WoW expansions, popping back in for the slow dribble of major patch updates.
I think GW2 will have a very very large number of players, but it will mostly share these with other titles.
I think GW2 will only suck handfuls of players from other games on a full-time basis. It will become a solid "second MMO" though. With a LOT of players staying with their current favourite but casually playing GW2 on non-raid days & other non-guild event days.
I honestly don't think it'll impact massively upon the Mists of Pandaria either, WoW fans will return in droves from other titles they have been playing to try it out & then as the content from it is consumed gradually bleed back out again, much as it has historically around WoW expansions, popping back in for the slow dribble of major patch updates.
I think GW2 will have a very very large number of players, but it will mostly share these with other titles.
I agree with ya Skuz. I still don't understand why it has to be "one game to rule them all!". WoW is fun for alot of people. If GW2 is going to hurt anyone it would seem to me to hurt more recent games like Rift, Tor, TSW, Tera, Aion, etc... Even then I think people will play GW2 on top of their other MMo of choice.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
wow this thread has gone way off topic in the first post the link to the post on Forbes it was about how Blizzard is almost completely sustained by the revenue it reaps from one game, World of Warcraft. it not about gear, progression, PvE, PvP , or witch game is better.
the Forbes post is about how a drop in the subs for WoW could be the end of Blizzard not just WoW
and Blizzard even said there is a threat to the popularity of World of Warcraft,
I always like the comments about how "you'll always come back" and "there won't be a change because you can afford both games at the same time".
First of all, no, people won't always come back. If an expansion doesn't interest me, I'm not going to buy it just to grind more gear, and an Asian theme and Pokemon battles are not my idea of wicked-awesome.
Secondly, if I'm playing a game I enjoy vastly more than a sub game, I won't pay for that game just to have it sit there collecting dust, and there are people who share my feelings. Will it change WoW's numbers? That's what I don't know... all I do know is that I haven't seen a better alternative to WoW until GW2, and coupled with the massive popularity of GW2, that could be an important factor.
How do you know a lot of them didn't go play Diablo 3 ? First of all WoW players do not leave WoW, they go on a temporary vacation and always come back. Do you really think a theme park like GW2 who most will probably level to make within a month will have an effect on a proven mmo that has many times more the content as GW2 ? I just laugh, i do , really I do. The things that some players come up with are just insane.
Comments
I preferred the way it was in SWG, rare resources created gear with a slight advantage. We're only talking about a few single digit numbers though, 80% rather than 75% as an example, or legendary weapons with dots that were very rare drops. None of it was needed to be useful, it was something there as a reward for the time/credits put in to aquire it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I preferred the way it was in SWG, rare resources created gear with a slight advantage. We're only talking about a few single digit numbers though, 80% rather than 75% as an example, or legendary weapons with dots that were very rare drops. None of it was neede to be useful, it just was something there as a reward for the time/credits put in to aquire it.
Yep. And the beauty of it was that it was finite. Gear degraded and eventually broke with enough use. You replaced gear because you wore it out. Now some patch comes out and your gear is garbage because of obsolete stats.
If we look at WoW, it's like gearing up in their end game raid to get the best gear in the game. Except when the next content patch hits, you can use that same gear instead of having to aquire new gear for the new raid.
I believe they said they were planning on raising the level cap once and expansion actually hits, so I expect that there will actually be new gear at that point. People just seem to be twisting things up for some reason.
Here is some confirmation about level cap:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/19873-level-cap-increase-in-expansions/
58:35
http://www.gameovercast.co.uk/index.php?id=news&db3=68
Good points Foom.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Typically hardcore raiders are number crunchers and min maxers. They would use anything if stats are 1% better. And the other reason they play is that they want to be first killing the new raid boss. Server first, maybe. Or world first if they are really elit and hardcore.
A visual "hamster wheel" will not work for players like that. They will want the new gear to help them do 1% more damage..or survive better. They will sometimes spend more time trying to figure out how to min max the character and gear than playing the game. So that they can beat the players in that other guild when trying to kill the new boss. Or so that they can boast about the numbers and stats...
No. GW2 will probably not be the best choice for that type of PvE-player.
My theme song.
caues saying the name makes a lot of folfs want to vomit
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
Yup. Pretty much THIS ^^^^^.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If you are tired of WoW, if you want to save money, if you want something different people will - they are and they have been.
Do you think that the current 9 million subs are people that played all the time? Some will, but many aren't.
What that means is that WoW has been losing subs since pretty much day 1, but they have been getting new subs at a faster rate.
Not anymore - proof is a negative 3 million subs turnaround for the last years.
GW2 might not be incredible enough to pinch players still having fun with WoW but it is good enough for new players considering a MMORPG to choose GW2 instead of WoW.
It is also good enough for players of WoW to try it and good enough to grab some of those players that believe they would play both since only WoW has subs.
It is also good enough to prevent people that left returning to WoW.
It also has superior PvP and superior Questing system for PvPers and quester/leveller PvErs.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
So instead of enjoying GW2 when it comes out, all your enjoyment will be concentrated on some other game being destroyed or harmed in any possible way? So once you split from your mate and now you are very happy when something bad happen to him despite she/he has become your past? Great attitude. But not only yours, human kind it looks have genetical potential for this. But at least shrinks will be always in demand and never bee out of money, just as lawyers.
And what's fantastic compared to all other theme parks is that those level increases will NOT make old content obsolete... if you want to go back to that old area you liked so much, you can still gain XP and loot there.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The juxtoposition of timing is going to produce an awful lot of toldyasos....and false conclusions too.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
and Bettlejuice!
sadly but true
QFE, I think this will be another reason why hardcore PvP'ers would rather stick with WoW as well. While GW2 certainly looks to be more fair and casual-friendly (i.e. not having to put in hours upon hours of grinding to be competitive) I just don't see "visual upgrades" being enough to lure the hardcore players away from WoW or hold any lasting appeal.
I don't doubt that many will play both but I'm willing to bet that the game that allows statistical character advancement at endgame is more likely to be a player's "main MMO" compared to a game they can race to cap, then drop entirely for an untold amount of time and upon return still be on equal footing gear-wise.
GW2 will be a wonderful diversion MMO while it's the new hotness but the 3-6 month mark is when server activity will be a real sign as to how focused the majority of players are on this game.
I think GW2 will only suck handfuls of players from other games on a full-time basis. It will become a solid "second MMO" though. With a LOT of players staying with their current favourite but casually playing GW2 on non-raid days & other non-guild event days.
I honestly don't think it'll impact massively upon the Mists of Pandaria either, WoW fans will return in droves from other titles they have been playing to try it out & then as the content from it is consumed gradually bleed back out again, much as it has historically around WoW expansions, popping back in for the slow dribble of major patch updates.
I think GW2 will have a very very large number of players, but it will mostly share these with other titles.
I agree with ya Skuz. I still don't understand why it has to be "one game to rule them all!". WoW is fun for alot of people. If GW2 is going to hurt anyone it would seem to me to hurt more recent games like Rift, Tor, TSW, Tera, Aion, etc... Even then I think people will play GW2 on top of their other MMo of choice.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Guild Wars 2 to join the list of WoW-killers.
Just like Guild Wars 1, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Aion, ToR, Conan, Rift, Tera, The Secret World...
I'm pretty sure I'm still forgetting another dozen of them.
Truth is, WoW can only kill itself, which by the way, it's doing a good job at it for the last 2 years.
I hope Guild Wars 2 aspires to be a great game by itself, not to kill anything else - because at that it will fail misserably.
GW2 is not a wow killer
but GW2 will *grow* the mmo playerbase - just like wow did years ago
some players that dont like mmos will like this game
EQ2 fan sites
On that I agree.
wow this thread has gone way off topic in the first post the link to the post on Forbes it was about how Blizzard is almost completely sustained by the revenue it reaps from one game, World of Warcraft. it not about gear, progression, PvE, PvP , or witch game is better.
the Forbes post is about how a drop in the subs for WoW could be the end of Blizzard not just WoW
and Blizzard even said there is a threat to the popularity of World of Warcraft,
I always like the comments about how "you'll always come back" and "there won't be a change because you can afford both games at the same time".
First of all, no, people won't always come back. If an expansion doesn't interest me, I'm not going to buy it just to grind more gear, and an Asian theme and Pokemon battles are not my idea of wicked-awesome.
Secondly, if I'm playing a game I enjoy vastly more than a sub game, I won't pay for that game just to have it sit there collecting dust, and there are people who share my feelings. Will it change WoW's numbers? That's what I don't know... all I do know is that I haven't seen a better alternative to WoW until GW2, and coupled with the massive popularity of GW2, that could be an important factor.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/