Have to agree. For myself, I'm not "living in the past", I'm drawing from it.
Even so, if we never had that past, these are still the things I'd be looking for. When UO came out it was exactly the first effort for an MMORPG that I expected and wanted. A world. It made as much sense as a world that I expected for the first truly large scale offering.
I expected that MMORPGs would advance their worlds into greater things. Alas.....
They did. Now they are fun games instead of worlds with lots of gameplay problems. No more camping. No more griefing. No more ghetto housing. No more waiting long time for groups.
Have to agree. For myself, I'm not "living in the past", I'm drawing from it.
Even so, if we never had that past, these are still the things I'd be looking for. When UO came out it was exactly the first effort for an MMORPG that I expected and wanted. A world. It made as much sense as a world that I expected for the first truly large scale offering.
I expected that MMORPGs would advance their worlds into greater things. Alas.....
They did. Now they are fun games instead of worlds with lots of gameplay problems. No more camping. No more griefing. No more ghetto housing. No more waiting long time for groups.
MMOs are now tiny. zoned or instanced worlds with less than a month of on the rails content before having to repeat 5 dungeons over and over for gear, 2-3 instanced pvp areas that you grind to get gear, etc. No huge worlds to explore, no endless advancement, no monthly updates, no community.. just instanced and 5 dungeons.
Darkfall accomplished something which UO never managed and that is epic fights with dozens, if not hundreds of participants.
The only part of your post that I not only disagree with but is just false. I saw many player built towns sacked by hundreds of players RPing an orc horde in UO.
Sandbox fans are not living in the past, they are living in a fantasy world, where the majority doesn't matter and companies cater exclusively to them (sandbox players) and now have crossed over to the real world and realized this world does not operate in such a manner.
Oh well sucks to be them.
ADDED: BTW i don't hate sandbox games, I just hate sandbox warriors. What happen to liking or hating a game based on its merits and not on some arbitrarily definition of that will never truly exist. I like to compare sandbox warriors to dreamers, dreaming is nice because the rules of reality can be broken, but at some point you gotta wake up.
Have to agree. For myself, I'm not "living in the past", I'm drawing from it.
Even so, if we never had that past, these are still the things I'd be looking for. When UO came out it was exactly the first effort for an MMORPG that I expected and wanted. A world. It made as much sense as a world that I expected for the first truly large scale offering.
I expected that MMORPGs would advance their worlds into greater things. Alas.....
They did. Now they are fun games instead of worlds with lots of gameplay problems. No more camping. No more griefing. No more ghetto housing. No more waiting long time for groups.
A long time ago criminals figured out that it was better to milk people for a smaller amount of money over a long period of time than to do big hits alone. The Themeparks are designed as cash grabs now. Pretty quick they will get wise to producing something that engages players for longer periods of time again to bring in that steady cash flow.
Themeparks are the single that you bought the album for. Sandboxes are the rest of the album that you soon learn to love more than the single.
Sandbox fans are not living in the past, they are living in a fantasy world, where the majority doesn't matter and companies cater exclusively to them (sandbox players) and now have crossed over to the real world and realized this world does not operate in such a manner.
Oh well sucks to be them.
ADDED: BTW i don't hate sandbox games, I just hate sandbox warriors. What happen to liking or hating a game based on its merits and not on some arbitrarily definition of that will never truly exist. I like to compare sandbox warriors to dreamers, dreaming is nice because the rules of reality can be broken, but at some point you gotta wake up.
This message brought to you by the console gamers association.
The problem is that for every 1 of you there are 10 people who will go "what the heck am I supposed to do? This game is dumb, I'm out." They will quit and not come back. This is the dilemma for game designers and publishers. If it's a AAA development they can't afford to take the chance that people will quit and therefore the type of game you are describing is generally made by the indie companies and made on the cheap because they don't need a huge playerbase to make their money back.
I think this is part of where the OP is going. There needs to be innovation and compromise. A game like UO launched now wouldn't be more than a niche game. They need to encorporate some "hand-holding" if you will at the beginning and probably use some guides, it's really a matter of how much or how little they use.
Well aware of that problem, any sandbox fan should be, and there's a point to be made for some change in the sandbox genre; that aims it a little more toward a larger audience. I don't disagree with that point. Still there's a line that should be drawn on how much "hand-holding" is added to the balance. It's never wise to attempt to replace one audience with another; NGE is proof enough of that.
ALl that said, I don't know if I can say I'm exactly living in the past, when what I see today, I view as a degression from where the genre was in 2003-04. Games offered more IMO, be it something like SWG/UO, DAOC or EVE. Take SWG in early 2004 for example, the game offered something for everyone, there hasn't been an MMO since that reached as far as that game did, so many options, so much unique game-play. Everything since has been shallow in comparison IMO.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Have to agree. For myself, I'm not "living in the past", I'm drawing from it.
Even so, if we never had that past, these are still the things I'd be looking for. When UO came out it was exactly the first effort for an MMORPG that I expected and wanted. A world. It made as much sense as a world that I expected for the first truly large scale offering.
I expected that MMORPGs would advance their worlds into greater things. Alas.....
They did. Now they are fun games instead of worlds with lots of gameplay problems. No more camping. No more griefing. No more ghetto housing. No more waiting long time for groups.
MMOs are now tiny. zoned or instanced worlds with less than a month of on the rails content before having to repeat 5 dungeons over and over for gear, 2-3 instanced pvp areas that you grind to get gear, etc. No huge worlds to explore, no endless advancement, no monthly updates, no community.. just instanced and 5 dungeons.
Yes. Instances are good. Small group co-op is good. Endless is boring .. there are plenty of other games to play. Community? I have enough friends. Few plays only one game anyway.
Okay let me start this off by saying that I AM a sandbox fan, but what I have noticed is that most sandbox fans, myself included, typically clamor for just a few features that have been around since the nineties. For example, we all want player housing, many of us want open-world PvP, we want crafting to be a dominant force, we want a very large amount of "gatherable" resources, we want to be able to own vehicles, etc. etc.
In fact, it seems like many developers are "living in the past" as well. Just about every fantasy sandbox game I have played seems like it's living in UO's shadow. Darkfall and MO are prime examples here. They really don't try to accomplish anything that UO already didn't do...and they sadly fall short in that department.
My point in all this is that I feel like the free-form ideals of sandbox games are really the ultimate future of MMORPGs, but we're never going to get there if we keep living in the past. Many ideas of the past are great and are still applicable, but devs and players alike have to start looking forward to new sandbox ideas, instead of just trying to replicate the deified games of the past. We can't have housing, crafting, and FFA-PvP be the end all be all of sandbox gaming if we ever want it to succeed.
Thoughts?
Open world-PvP is a sure sign of niche'dom.
I think, alot of us want most of those things on your list but for myself I only am interested in:
Player Housing
Open World Exploration aka Skyrim style with hundreds if not thousands of dungeons, villas and Towers to explore.
Crafting is featured but not exclusive, I still like for dropped loot to be the prime source of player power with either crafting used to augment dropped loot (ala Asherons Call) or supplement dropped loot.
Combat centric with open ended classless systems. Similar to AC or Skyrim.
In depth, detailed long completion questing system
Horizontal progression that takes months if not years to max out.
These are the only sandbox items I prefer in my MMO, most others turn the game into rubbish.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Have to agree. For myself, I'm not "living in the past", I'm drawing from it.
Even so, if we never had that past, these are still the things I'd be looking for. When UO came out it was exactly the first effort for an MMORPG that I expected and wanted. A world. It made as much sense as a world that I expected for the first truly large scale offering.
I expected that MMORPGs would advance their worlds into greater things. Alas.....
They did. Now they are fun games instead of worlds with lots of gameplay problems. No more camping. No more griefing. No more ghetto housing. No more waiting long time for groups.
MMOs are now tiny. zoned or instanced worlds with less than a month of on the rails content before having to repeat 5 dungeons over and over for gear, 2-3 instanced pvp areas that you grind to get gear, etc. No huge worlds to explore, no endless advancement, no monthly updates, no community.. just instanced and 5 dungeons.
Yes. Instances are good. Small group co-op is good. Endless is boring .. there are plenty of other games to play. Community? I have enough friends. Few plays only one game anyway.
Translation: I don't need a lot to do, and neither do you.
I am so tried of the anti sandbox fans that say that no one is looking a sandbox by using "logic" that since AAA MMOs makers don't make them, the majority of gamers don't want to play a sandbox game.
Never mind that before CU/NGE and WOW, SWG had good numbers despite that it was horribly balanced and ridded with bugs that SOE had no interest in fixing.
Nor do they seem to care that EVE has been running strong, with a sub model, for more then 9 years in the age of WOW.
They also seem to ingore the millions that play Skyrim and Minecraft. Are they true sandboxes? Nope but they anrt linear cooridoor games with crappy stories and bland combat like these "MMOs" we have been getting.
Now I am willing to admit that none of these mean that a more sandbox like MMO would been the next WoW but to say that there isn't a good market is just silly. Clearly there is a market for it, the only question is how big of a market it is.
Heck give a sandbox MMO a good IP, lots of hype/spin and well known dev/pubisher, I would bet it would sell just as well as WAR or SWTOR did before everyone quit.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I am so tried of the anti sandbox fans that say that no one is looking a sandbox by using "logic" that since AAA MMOs makers don't make them, the majority of gamers don't want to play a sandbox game.
Never mind that before CU/NGE and WOW, SWG had good numbers despite that it was horribly balanced and ridded with bugs that SOE had no interest in fixing.
Nor do they seem to care that EVE has been running strong, with a sub model, for more then 9 years in the age of WOW.
They also seem to ingore the millions that play Skyrim and Minecraft. Are they true sandboxes? Nope but they anrt linear cooridoor games with crappy stories and bland combat like these "MMOs" we have been getting.
Now I am willing to admit that none of these mean that a more sandbox like MMO would been the next WoW but to say that there isn't a good market is just silly. Clearly there is a market for it, the only question is how big of a market it is.
Heck give a sandbox MMO a good IP, lots of hype/spin and well known dev/pubisher, I would bet it would sell just as well as WAR or SWTOR did before everyone quit.
All very good points, but something should also be added, we're heading into an age where development can easily be backed by fans or private investors. With the seeming early success of kickstarter, I wouldn't be surprised to see this route become more and more prevalent for those seeking to build games that are a bit more out of the box, if those companies see success it will only grow.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyone who implies Sandbox games are in any way a thing of the past is not paing attention. In recent years we have seen hugely funded themepark after themepark go fp2 or outright fail. Yet, few sandboxes follow this path or fold in near the same amount of time these themeparks collapse.
Many of the Genre's most duable titles are sandboxes. Yet, a vast majority of the total titles are themeparks.
I don't know, i see alot of people saying that sandbox players are the minority of players compared to themepark players - what i think is true.
But question is, how many ACTUALLY are sandbox players? I am sure if you gather up all the sandbox players who actually WANT a sandbox game such as similar to UO etc, then i am sure you will get a nice large playerbase within a game. Of course wont be as much as WoW - but dont care, who needs 10million players anyway.
How many players did UO have at its peak? I am sure there are so many more players who have flocked to the sandbox liking that having another UO kind of game would bring in the masses.
We just need a developer who will take their money and the risks to make something - because in reality there ARE many people who will go to their game providing it pleases the sandbox community to give them what they want.
Okay let me start this off by saying that I AM a sandbox fan, but what I have noticed is that most sandbox fans, myself included, typically clamor for just a few features that have been around since the nineties. For example, we all want player housing, many of us want open-world PvP, we want crafting to be a dominant force, we want a very large amount of "gatherable" resources, we want to be able to own vehicles, etc. etc.
In fact, it seems like many developers are "living in the past" as well. Just about every fantasy sandbox game I have played seems like it's living in UO's shadow. Darkfall and MO are prime examples here. They really don't try to accomplish anything that UO already didn't do...and they sadly fall short in that department.
My point in all this is that I feel like the free-form ideals of sandbox games are really the ultimate future of MMORPGs, but we're never going to get there if we keep living in the past. Many ideas of the past are great and are still applicable, but devs and players alike have to start looking forward to new sandbox ideas, instead of just trying to replicate the deified games of the past. We can't have housing, crafting, and FFA-PvP be the end all be all of sandbox gaming if we ever want it to succeed.
Thoughts?
In my opinion, we CAN have housing, meaningful crafting, resource gathering, and PvP, which comprise the cornerstone of sandboxing, with a few themepark features like dungeons, quests, instancing, auction houses, banks, etc., plus other new goodies they may want to dream up. Why not? A smart developer would know that these are the things players want. Satisfying player wants = subscriptions and everybody is happy. Seriously considering player suggestions is a great way of making a great game and keeping it alive. That, and balancing their races classes weapons and armor are essential. These all should be inplace at release. I say this because there is nothing more frustrating than having something taken away from players when they are already used to having it. Problem is, few developers do this. Instead, they have a tendency to nerf their games to oblivion making their subscribers unhappy campers. Unhappy campers tend to walk.
I think they make a lot of noise with their keyboards but very little impact with their wallets.
imho your statement is SO wrong, you are saying sandbox players are not talking with there wallets......i think they are talking with their wallets because real sandbox player aint buying panda expansions and every new mmo that comes out.
They are prolly playing UO free charts and minecraft alikes (maybe some themeparks, but i am sure they dont play every theme-MMO you throw at them).
So imho Sandboxers are the only one that DO talk with their money....and devs are starting to see this, housing is slowly making its return into games, also crafting is becoming (slowly but surely) more and more important in newer games these days.....so sandbox elements ARE slowly comming back because they did talk talk with their money.
The only reason there are alot of theme-mmo's out there is because of the theme-park fans out there who buy every mmo that hits the market, rush to endgame and then quit after playing 1 to 2 months.
So companies make 50bucks(for the boxed game or digital download) + 2 months sub (30 bucks).....thats 80 bucks a person and then they have to go FTP because the thempark fans just give up (blaming the devs there aint enough content).
If a good sandbox would hit the market (proof is in the puddin, example is UO, the mother of all MMO's imo) and you charged a 10 bucks sub you would make alot of money in the long run. Why? it would take you about 6 months (as in the old UO days) to get you to your maximum potential with skills (max lvl), then you still had no house of your own and even if you did you would always want more decorations for your home or you had vendors at your house to sell your crafting goods or treasures you looted in dungeons.....your vendors need restocking and you would have to do some crafting or heavy dungeon grinding to get good gear to sell. (i miss the days of mining and crafting/repairing peoples armors and weapons).
My point, in a sandbox YOU decide what you want to do, not the game....your imagination was the endgame.
So to sum it up who could make more money as a dev.....the themepark games or the sandbox??
50 bucks for the game + 10 bucks sub for at least 6 months = 110 bucks and going steady because there is always something to do in a sandbox. This agains the 80 bucks of the themepark that also costed a good 100+ millions to make (SWTOR anyone??).
Not just the sandbox guys, it's pandemic to this website.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
@ OP if living in the past means wanting a good sandbox game, with openworld pvp, cuty building, harsh death penalties, good crafting, player run ecoamy, good game play, good community... if thats the case then hell yeah im living in the past..and i hope to see this past become the future..
I dont want instant gratification games, themepark games, easy games, no pvp or restricted to silly battle zoens or whatever.. if thats the future then im a sad person..
Dont get me wrong i know sandbox type games have a small following and i dont expect millions of people to be playing them. Saying that there are enough people out there who would sub to a well made sandbox mmmorpg to make a company quite a big of cash.. Companies just have to realise they dont need to compete with WOW... WoW fans are WoW fans for a reason they like it and they probally wont leave..
Comments
They did. Now they are fun games instead of worlds with lots of gameplay problems. No more camping. No more griefing. No more ghetto housing. No more waiting long time for groups.
You are making noise right now. Should I infer anything from this?
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
MMOs are now tiny. zoned or instanced worlds with less than a month of on the rails content before having to repeat 5 dungeons over and over for gear, 2-3 instanced pvp areas that you grind to get gear, etc. No huge worlds to explore, no endless advancement, no monthly updates, no community.. just instanced and 5 dungeons.
The only part of your post that I not only disagree with but is just false. I saw many player built towns sacked by hundreds of players RPing an orc horde in UO.
My theme song.
Sandbox fans are not living in the past, they are living in a fantasy world, where the majority doesn't matter and companies cater exclusively to them (sandbox players) and now have crossed over to the real world and realized this world does not operate in such a manner.
Oh well sucks to be them.
ADDED: BTW i don't hate sandbox games, I just hate sandbox warriors. What happen to liking or hating a game based on its merits and not on some arbitrarily definition of that will never truly exist. I like to compare sandbox warriors to dreamers, dreaming is nice because the rules of reality can be broken, but at some point you gotta wake up.
A long time ago criminals figured out that it was better to milk people for a smaller amount of money over a long period of time than to do big hits alone. The Themeparks are designed as cash grabs now. Pretty quick they will get wise to producing something that engages players for longer periods of time again to bring in that steady cash flow.
Themeparks are the single that you bought the album for. Sandboxes are the rest of the album that you soon learn to love more than the single.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
This message brought to you by the console gamers association.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Well aware of that problem, any sandbox fan should be, and there's a point to be made for some change in the sandbox genre; that aims it a little more toward a larger audience. I don't disagree with that point. Still there's a line that should be drawn on how much "hand-holding" is added to the balance. It's never wise to attempt to replace one audience with another; NGE is proof enough of that.
ALl that said, I don't know if I can say I'm exactly living in the past, when what I see today, I view as a degression from where the genre was in 2003-04. Games offered more IMO, be it something like SWG/UO, DAOC or EVE. Take SWG in early 2004 for example, the game offered something for everyone, there hasn't been an MMO since that reached as far as that game did, so many options, so much unique game-play. Everything since has been shallow in comparison IMO.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes. Instances are good. Small group co-op is good. Endless is boring .. there are plenty of other games to play. Community? I have enough friends. Few plays only one game anyway.
Open world-PvP is a sure sign of niche'dom.
I think, alot of us want most of those things on your list but for myself I only am interested in:
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Translation: I don't need a lot to do, and neither do you.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I am so tried of the anti sandbox fans that say that no one is looking a sandbox by using "logic" that since AAA MMOs makers don't make them, the majority of gamers don't want to play a sandbox game.
Never mind that before CU/NGE and WOW, SWG had good numbers despite that it was horribly balanced and ridded with bugs that SOE had no interest in fixing.
Nor do they seem to care that EVE has been running strong, with a sub model, for more then 9 years in the age of WOW.
They also seem to ingore the millions that play Skyrim and Minecraft. Are they true sandboxes? Nope but they anrt linear cooridoor games with crappy stories and bland combat like these "MMOs" we have been getting.
Now I am willing to admit that none of these mean that a more sandbox like MMO would been the next WoW but to say that there isn't a good market is just silly. Clearly there is a market for it, the only question is how big of a market it is.
Heck give a sandbox MMO a good IP, lots of hype/spin and well known dev/pubisher, I would bet it would sell just as well as WAR or SWTOR did before everyone quit.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
All very good points, but something should also be added, we're heading into an age where development can easily be backed by fans or private investors. With the seeming early success of kickstarter, I wouldn't be surprised to see this route become more and more prevalent for those seeking to build games that are a bit more out of the box, if those companies see success it will only grow.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyone who implies Sandbox games are in any way a thing of the past is not paing attention. In recent years we have seen hugely funded themepark after themepark go fp2 or outright fail. Yet, few sandboxes follow this path or fold in near the same amount of time these themeparks collapse.
Many of the Genre's most duable titles are sandboxes. Yet, a vast majority of the total titles are themeparks.
Do the math.
I don't know, i see alot of people saying that sandbox players are the minority of players compared to themepark players - what i think is true.
But question is, how many ACTUALLY are sandbox players? I am sure if you gather up all the sandbox players who actually WANT a sandbox game such as similar to UO etc, then i am sure you will get a nice large playerbase within a game. Of course wont be as much as WoW - but dont care, who needs 10million players anyway.
How many players did UO have at its peak? I am sure there are so many more players who have flocked to the sandbox liking that having another UO kind of game would bring in the masses.
We just need a developer who will take their money and the risks to make something - because in reality there ARE many people who will go to their game providing it pleases the sandbox community to give them what they want.
In my opinion, we CAN have housing, meaningful crafting, resource gathering, and PvP, which comprise the cornerstone of sandboxing, with a few themepark features like dungeons, quests, instancing, auction houses, banks, etc., plus other new goodies they may want to dream up. Why not? A smart developer would know that these are the things players want. Satisfying player wants = subscriptions and everybody is happy. Seriously considering player suggestions is a great way of making a great game and keeping it alive. That, and balancing their races classes weapons and armor are essential. These all should be inplace at release. I say this because there is nothing more frustrating than having something taken away from players when they are already used to having it. Problem is, few developers do this. Instead, they have a tendency to nerf their games to oblivion making their subscribers unhappy campers. Unhappy campers tend to walk.
Maybe we're living in denial of how well known this concept is. I saw this over at SWTOR forums.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=516677
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
imho your statement is SO wrong, you are saying sandbox players are not talking with there wallets......i think they are talking with their wallets because real sandbox player aint buying panda expansions and every new mmo that comes out.
They are prolly playing UO free charts and minecraft alikes (maybe some themeparks, but i am sure they dont play every theme-MMO you throw at them).
So imho Sandboxers are the only one that DO talk with their money....and devs are starting to see this, housing is slowly making its return into games, also crafting is becoming (slowly but surely) more and more important in newer games these days.....so sandbox elements ARE slowly comming back because they did talk talk with their money.
The only reason there are alot of theme-mmo's out there is because of the theme-park fans out there who buy every mmo that hits the market, rush to endgame and then quit after playing 1 to 2 months.
So companies make 50bucks(for the boxed game or digital download) + 2 months sub (30 bucks).....thats 80 bucks a person and then they have to go FTP because the thempark fans just give up (blaming the devs there aint enough content).
If a good sandbox would hit the market (proof is in the puddin, example is UO, the mother of all MMO's imo) and you charged a 10 bucks sub you would make alot of money in the long run. Why? it would take you about 6 months (as in the old UO days) to get you to your maximum potential with skills (max lvl), then you still had no house of your own and even if you did you would always want more decorations for your home or you had vendors at your house to sell your crafting goods or treasures you looted in dungeons.....your vendors need restocking and you would have to do some crafting or heavy dungeon grinding to get good gear to sell. (i miss the days of mining and crafting/repairing peoples armors and weapons).
My point, in a sandbox YOU decide what you want to do, not the game....your imagination was the endgame.
So to sum it up who could make more money as a dev.....the themepark games or the sandbox??
50 bucks for the game + 10 bucks sub for at least 6 months = 110 bucks and going steady because there is always something to do in a sandbox. This agains the 80 bucks of the themepark that also costed a good 100+ millions to make (SWTOR anyone??).
just mho....
Ever since I played Minecraft I haven't been able to go back to Themeparks.
I miss you so much SWG.
Cult of Defeatism.
Not just the sandbox guys, it's pandemic to this website.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I often get the feeling many people like Sandbox games because it's the cool thing to like right now.
But yes, i do get the feeling that many Sandboxers (the real ones) are living in the past.
GW2 isn't a sandbox mmo.
@ OP if living in the past means wanting a good sandbox game, with openworld pvp, cuty building, harsh death penalties, good crafting, player run ecoamy, good game play, good community... if thats the case then hell yeah im living in the past..and i hope to see this past become the future..
I dont want instant gratification games, themepark games, easy games, no pvp or restricted to silly battle zoens or whatever.. if thats the future then im a sad person..
Dont get me wrong i know sandbox type games have a small following and i dont expect millions of people to be playing them. Saying that there are enough people out there who would sub to a well made sandbox mmmorpg to make a company quite a big of cash.. Companies just have to realise they dont need to compete with WOW... WoW fans are WoW fans for a reason they like it and they probally wont leave..
Living in the past? No.
Living in denial about the proportion of MMO players that enjoy sandbox games? Absolutely.
no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAFWxk7oF6s&feature=player_embedded
actly we allways live in the future
WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ys
FH1942 best tanker for 4years
Playing WWII OL for some years untill now
many other for some months