Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You can actually do this. The last BWE I played our team used this as a viable means to control a character for longer than the 2-3 sec CCs. You let them use their heal, interrupt, then pummle the living crap out of them to keep them downed.
Last I recall, there isn't a suicide button. Also, they could have fixed this. Not certain.
Strategy? Yes. Compelx? No. Simply using ( abusing? ) the system you're given.
The game doesnt need a suicide button because you bleed out unless you activate a heal. Want to die so you can spawn? Don't hit the heal button.
Sure you can bleed out but imagine how frustrating that is if the enemies force you to bleed out every time. I'm sure it will become a popular "strategy" very fast. Not only you delay your opponents but you crush their spirit too.
everytime? this is going to be a very situational type of thing.
I can easily see players who finish enemies getting yelled at by their teammates for not keeping them downed as long as possible. Like Teldo said it was a mistake that he finished him quickly.
Very, very true - but most people I've come across aren't interested in dying, so they continue to chain heal after the CD to continue their struggle, in vain of course.
that's their own fault and something smart players can use to their advantage.
Certainly is their own fault. I wasnt' disagreeing.
To say that it requires a smart player to do this though, that I won't agree.
I mean, I did it and I'm a considerably average MMO player.
then you give yourself less credit than you deserve.. most people I fought with don't think twice and go in for the finisher asap.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
everytime? this is going to be a very situational type of thing.
Not necessarily.
The game promotes a self-sustaining type of gameplay; therefore, it makes sense for everyone's initial reaction to be going for the heal when downed. Of course, in higher rankings of the arena-esq PVP, more players will be aware of this type of CCing and will work-around.
everytime? this is going to be a very situational type of thing.
Not necessarily.
The game promotes a self-sustaining type of gameplay; therefore, it makes sense for everyone's initial reaction to be going for the heal when downed. Of course, in higher rankings of the arena-esq PVP, more players will be aware of this type of CCing and will work-around.
and if it becomes a major issue I don't see why Anet wouldn't resolve it.. same thing with any PVP type game if something starts getting overabused and causes more frustration than good developers generally remedy it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
everytime? this is going to be a very situational type of thing.
Not necessarily.
The game promotes a self-sustaining type of gameplay; therefore, it makes sense for everyone's initial reaction to be going for the heal when downed. Of course, in higher rankings of the arena-esq PVP, more players will be aware of this type of CCing and will work-around.
and if it becomes a major issue I don't see why Anet wouldn't resolve it.. same thing with any PVP type game if something starts getting overabused and causes more frustration than good developers generally remedy it.
And I totally hope something like that does get fixed, if it was unintended. I'm not here to bash the Dev Team, I like Anet.
I'm just here to post my thoughts on the design decision of the "Downed State" and how I believe it isn't as "Complex / Strategic" as people are trying to make it out to be.
everytime? this is going to be a very situational type of thing.
Not necessarily.
The game promotes a self-sustaining type of gameplay; therefore, it makes sense for everyone's initial reaction to be going for the heal when downed. Of course, in higher rankings of the arena-esq PVP, more players will be aware of this type of CCing and will work-around.
and if it becomes a major issue I don't see why Anet wouldn't resolve it.. same thing with any PVP type game if something starts getting overabused and causes more frustration than good developers generally remedy it.
And I totally hope something like that does get fixed, if it was unintended. I'm not here to bash the Dev Team, I like Anet.
I'm just here to post my thoughts on the design decision of the "Downed State" and how I believe it isn't as "Complex / Strategic" as people are trying to make it out to be.
in many ways it's another form of CC. CC is the basis for much of the strategic ways PVP is played. But if CC gets out of hand it also becomes more frustrating than fun. Rift had these issues and struggled through many patches until they finally just added the whole immunity thing. Anet is a good dev team and have been doing PVP for awhile now, I'm sure if it becomes something that enough people complain about it will get adjusted.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
in many ways it's another form of CC. CC is the basis for much of the strategic ways PVP is played. But if CC gets out of hand it also becomes more frustrating than fun. Rift had these issues and struggled through many patches until they finally just added the whole immunity thing. Anet is a good dev team and have been doing PVP for awhile now, I'm sure if it becomes something that enough people complain about it will get adjusted.
And that's my point, in a nutshell.
The design itself is tedious and pointless, as well open for abuse ( if you want to consider the manipulation of the mechanic that, instead of strategy ).
For a game that's all about self-sustaining PVP with little to no CC, it seems counter-productive to impliment a system in which you're forced into becoming a stationary beating post for a duration of time. I can see the obvious intentions of trying to be forgiving with death and allowing better team-play, but it doesn't feel at all necessary to me.
I'd prefer to die and get it over with. I sincerely doubt simply dying would in any way hinder the PVP, or jeopardize its design.
in many ways it's another form of CC. CC is the basis for much of the strategic ways PVP is played. But if CC gets out of hand it also becomes more frustrating than fun. Rift had these issues and struggled through many patches until they finally just added the whole immunity thing. Anet is a good dev team and have been doing PVP for awhile now, I'm sure if it becomes something that enough people complain about it will get adjusted.
And that's my point, in a nutshell.
The design itself is tedious and pointless, as well open for abuse ( if you want to consider the manipulation of the mechanic that, instead of strategy ).
For a game that's all about self-sustaining PVP with little to no CC, it seems counter-productive to impliment a system in which you're forced into becoming a stationary beating post for a duration of time. I can see the obvious intentions of trying to be forgiving with death and allowing better team-play, but it doesn't feel at all necessary to me.
I'd prefer to die and get it over with. I sincerely doubt simply dying would in any way hinder the PVP, or jeopardize its design.
Game has a lot of CC and a TON if you play engineer not sure where you got little CC from.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
in many ways it's another form of CC. CC is the basis for much of the strategic ways PVP is played. But if CC gets out of hand it also becomes more frustrating than fun. Rift had these issues and struggled through many patches until they finally just added the whole immunity thing. Anet is a good dev team and have been doing PVP for awhile now, I'm sure if it becomes something that enough people complain about it will get adjusted.
And that's my point, in a nutshell.
The design itself is tedious and pointless, as well open for abuse ( if you want to consider the manipulation of the mechanic that, instead of strategy ).
For a game that's all about self-sustaining PVP with little to no CC, it seems counter-productive to impliment a system in which you're forced into becoming a stationary beating post for a duration of time. I can see the obvious intentions of trying to be forgiving with death and allowing better team-play, but it doesn't feel at all necessary to me.
I'd prefer to die and get it over with. I sincerely doubt simply dying would in any way hinder the PVP, or jeopardize its design.
Game has a lot of CC and a TON if you play engineer not sure where you got little CC from.
The CC available in GW2 is light in comparison to most other MMOs in the fact that it lasts mere seconds ( 5+ being long ).
Other available games have much longer durations; therefore, I do not consider GW2 to have many conventional CC abilities that would jeopardize anyone for more than a second or so. Which, for the design of the game, works fine as it is normally quite fast-paced.
in many ways it's another form of CC. CC is the basis for much of the strategic ways PVP is played. But if CC gets out of hand it also becomes more frustrating than fun. Rift had these issues and struggled through many patches until they finally just added the whole immunity thing. Anet is a good dev team and have been doing PVP for awhile now, I'm sure if it becomes something that enough people complain about it will get adjusted.
And that's my point, in a nutshell.
The design itself is tedious and pointless, as well open for abuse ( if you want to consider the manipulation of the mechanic that, instead of strategy ).
For a game that's all about self-sustaining PVP with little to no CC, it seems counter-productive to impliment a system in which you're forced into becoming a stationary beating post for a duration of time. I can see the obvious intentions of trying to be forgiving with death and allowing better team-play, but it doesn't feel at all necessary to me.
I'd prefer to die and get it over with. I sincerely doubt simply dying would in any way hinder the PVP, or jeopardize its design.
Game has a lot of CC and a TON if you play engineer not sure where you got little CC from.
the CC is very low duration. WoW for example has a lot of 8-10 second CC and DAoC had some insane >1 minute long mezzes and roots (yet somehow they are one of the reasons that made daoc so awesome and unpredictable)
The CC available in GW2 is light in comparison to most other MMOs in the fact that it lasts mere seconds ( 5+ being long ).
Other available games have much longer durations; therefore, I do not consider GW2 to have many conventional CC abilities that would jeopardize anyone for more than a second or so. Which, for the design of the game, works fine as it is normally quite fast-paced.
I see yea CC is short which is good because being constantly locked down for long periods of time isn't fun for anyone imho. Thought you meant just number of CC skills as there are quite a few
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features...
good point you are effectivly taking yourself from the battle as well so as I said this is VERY situational to say the least.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
I don't see how that is effectively taking him out of action. Casting a single dot to negate the cast of his heal shouldn't trivialize his contribution to the game, especially considering that, if you play a dot class, it only takes a single key stroke and a tab target to select the downed player and continue to harrass them before moving on to bigger, better things.
As well, regardless of your stance on the topic, it is an effective way to CC someone if they fall into it. Getting your "jollies" would simply be a side-effect of using some of the so-called "strategy" invovled with the downed state.
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
I don't see how that is effectively taking him out of action. Casting a single dot to negate the cast of his heal shouldn't trivialize his contribution to the game, especially considering that, if you play a dot class, it only takes a single key stroke and a tab target to select the downed player and continue to harrass them before moving on to bigger, better things.
As well, regardless of your stance on the topic, it is an effective way to CC someone if they fall into it. Getting your "jollies" would simply be a side-effect of using some of the so-called "strategy" invovled with the downed state.
you are still required to effectivly "sit" on the target though and you are still assuming they are dumb enough to constantly keep bandaging themself as well. So if the fight is going on elsewhere you are taking both of you out of the fight for that time period. Just don't see this one being a very big issue overall.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
What if I'm controlling a capture point? It's essentially 5v4 then (or 8v7). If someone comes to 1v1 me I can either stomp him quickly or fight the other guy out of range while dotting the downed guy once every ~15 sec (plus if he goes to rezz him I can use that to my advantage as well). If 2 come to 2v1 me then the rest of the map is 4v2 until they kill me (and I can use stability to stomp him just before they down me). And to all that add the frustration I'm causing him and the fun I'm getting from being evil.
What other features do I hate? I don't even know if I hate the downed state anymore. It opens up so many opportunities for griefing that I'll have fun whether they remove it or not
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
I don't see how that is effectively taking him out of action. Casting a single dot to negate the cast of his heal shouldn't trivialize his contribution to the game, especially considering that, if you play a dot class, it only takes a single key stroke and a tab target to select the downed player and continue to harrass them before moving on to bigger, better things.
As well, regardless of your stance on the topic, it is an effective way to CC someone if they fall into it. Getting your "jollies" would simply be a side-effect of using some of the so-called "strategy" invovled with the downed state.
you are still required to effectivly "sit" on the target though and you are still assuming they are dumb enough to constantly keep bandaging themself as well. So if the fight is going on elsewhere you are taking both of you out of the fight for that time period. Just don't see this one being a very big issue overall.
Then I'm glad we agree it's not a very good strategy, save for certain particular situations.
Downed state is.. just that, a boring 'ol downed state.
Take for example a 4v4 fight. One side wins and they leave all 4 downed. 3 players of the winners leave to cap points and they leave 1 guy to keep the 4 downed dotted and unable to rezz. They will be forced to let themselves die slowly and lose so much time and of course all capture points.
Originally posted by otinanai123 Take for example a 4v4 fight. One side wins and they leave all 4 downed. 3 players of the winners leave to cap points and they leave 1 guy to keep the 4 downed dotted and unable to rezz. They will be forced to let themselves die slowly and lose so much time and of course all capture points.
so you are again assuming that many people are that dumb to just keep spamming their downed heals and not just let themselves die? If you don't spam your downed state heal and you are getting a dot from an enemy you are going to die pretty fast.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Imagine how much fun that downed guy would have if teldo wouldn't let him rezz until the game ended. Also the game could be 4v5 until the end.
... you have no idea how downed state works, do you?
No wonder why you hate it so much.
(Hint: You can't do what you just said, unless the guy got killed in the last 10 seconds or so before the game ended)
Why not? let him heal up to 95% and then throw a dot on him to stop his healing for like 10 sec. The only way to get out of it is to stop healing up and let yourself die slowly (even more enraging)
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
I don't see how that is effectively taking him out of action. Casting a single dot to negate the cast of his heal shouldn't trivialize his contribution to the game, especially considering that, if you play a dot class, it only takes a single key stroke and a tab target to select the downed player and continue to harrass them before moving on to bigger, better things.
As well, regardless of your stance on the topic, it is an effective way to CC someone if they fall into it. Getting your "jollies" would simply be a side-effect of using some of the so-called "strategy" invovled with the downed state.
you are still required to effectivly "sit" on the target though and you are still assuming they are dumb enough to constantly keep bandaging themself as well. So if the fight is going on elsewhere you are taking both of you out of the fight for that time period. Just don't see this one being a very big issue overall.
But you aren't required to sit on a downed target. All you are 'required' to do is pay attention. As others have pointed it it's just another set of options to keep in mind as you're fighting. You can ignore him, you can place some kind of sustained damage on him (either a dot, a pet, a turret, or just shoot at him every few seconds). You could leave him to die while you run off to cap a diff point. There's a lot of options.
The downed player can contribute to a fight by tossing in some variables while he waits to get back up. The alive players have to way finishing him / ressing him, with how vulnerable they will be if they do so, if they expect backup (or if they think the enemy is going to have backup soon), etc.
As a mechanic it really doesn't force any specific strategy on you as a player. Downed players also decay over time, so if they can't heal themselves back up after a short while, they are dead anyway.
Originally posted by otinanai123 Take for example a 4v4 fight. One side wins and they leave all 4 downed. 3 players of the winners leave to cap points and they leave 1 guy to keep the 4 downed dotted and unable to rezz. They will be forced to let themselves die slowly and lose so much time and of course all capture points.
so you are again assuming that many people are that dumb to just keep spamming their downed heals and not just let themselves die? If you don't spam your downed state heal and you are getting a dot from an enemy you are going to die pretty fast.
The dot will be casted only when the downed player is healing himself and near 95% or so. If he lets himself die you will let him die.
BTW are saying people will just let themselves die in most cases? How does that add any fun to PvP? How isn't it incredibely frustrating?
This is actually the epitome of contradiction... if anything, the downed state encourages people to take more risks and play more offensively since they still have the chance of being saved by their team mates. It actually rewards agressive play.
Basic logic... really...
You are both right.
Downed state promotes zerging in large groups, but hurts aggressive play for teams at a disadvantage.
Originally posted by otinanai123 Take for example a 4v4 fight. One side wins and they leave all 4 downed. 3 players of the winners leave to cap points and they leave 1 guy to keep the 4 downed dotted and unable to rezz. They will be forced to let themselves die slowly and lose so much time and of course all capture points.
so you are again assuming that many people are that dumb to just keep spamming their downed heals and not just let themselves die? If you don't spam your downed state heal and you are getting a dot from an enemy you are going to die pretty fast.
This ^
You'll also find a lot of the more skilled players will weigh death against reviving. If it's faster to just die and respawn, than it is to sit there on your ass, most skilled players will let themselves die. However, as with all skilled games, there are other factors to consider. (i.e. if A necro can get a fear bomb off to delay an enemy from capping a point, that may be worth the extra time on his arse)
But you aren't required to sit on a downed target. All you are 'required' to do is pay attention. As others have pointed it it's just another set of options to keep in mind as you're fighting. You can ignore him, you can place some kind of sustained damage on him (either a dot, a pet, a turret, or just shoot at him every few seconds). You could leave him to die while you run off to cap a diff point. There's a lot of options.
The downed player can contribute to a fight by tossing in some variables while he waits to get back up. The alive players have to way finishing him / ressing him, with how vulnerable they will be if they do so, if they expect backup (or if they think the enemy is going to have backup soon), etc.
As a mechanic it really doesn't force any specific strategy on you as a player. Downed players also decay over time, so if they can't heal themselves back up after a short while, they are dead anyway.
I realise that I was talking more in the instance we were discussing to effectivly shutdown a player who is spamming their bandage skill while down and you keep a dot on him to keep him in a downed state while the rest of your teams are elsewhere battling.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
This is actually the epitome of contradiction... if anything, the downed state encourages people to take more risks and play more offensively since they still have the chance of being saved by their team mates. It actually rewards agressive play.
Basic logic... really...
You are both right.
Downed state promotes zerging in large groups, but hurts aggressive play for teams at a disadvantage.
How does it promote zerging? If you play recklessly and get yourself killed, you're still leaving your teamm8s vulnerable, as they will have to take time out of combat to come res you. If the enemy is skilled enough, they can usually keep your teamm8s CCed / distracted long enough to delay the res, and down yet another member of the team.
Comments
I can easily see players who finish enemies getting yelled at by their teammates for not keeping them downed as long as possible. Like Teldo said it was a mistake that he finished him quickly.
my review of GW2
then you give yourself less credit than you deserve.. most people I fought with don't think twice and go in for the finisher asap.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Not necessarily.
The game promotes a self-sustaining type of gameplay; therefore, it makes sense for everyone's initial reaction to be going for the heal when downed. Of course, in higher rankings of the arena-esq PVP, more players will be aware of this type of CCing and will work-around.
and if it becomes a major issue I don't see why Anet wouldn't resolve it.. same thing with any PVP type game if something starts getting overabused and causes more frustration than good developers generally remedy it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
And I totally hope something like that does get fixed, if it was unintended. I'm not here to bash the Dev Team, I like Anet.
I'm just here to post my thoughts on the design decision of the "Downed State" and how I believe it isn't as "Complex / Strategic" as people are trying to make it out to be.
in many ways it's another form of CC. CC is the basis for much of the strategic ways PVP is played. But if CC gets out of hand it also becomes more frustrating than fun. Rift had these issues and struggled through many patches until they finally just added the whole immunity thing. Anet is a good dev team and have been doing PVP for awhile now, I'm sure if it becomes something that enough people complain about it will get adjusted.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
And that's my point, in a nutshell.
The design itself is tedious and pointless, as well open for abuse ( if you want to consider the manipulation of the mechanic that, instead of strategy ).
For a game that's all about self-sustaining PVP with little to no CC, it seems counter-productive to impliment a system in which you're forced into becoming a stationary beating post for a duration of time. I can see the obvious intentions of trying to be forgiving with death and allowing better team-play, but it doesn't feel at all necessary to me.
I'd prefer to die and get it over with. I sincerely doubt simply dying would in any way hinder the PVP, or jeopardize its design.
Game has a lot of CC and a TON if you play engineer not sure where you got little CC from.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The CC available in GW2 is light in comparison to most other MMOs in the fact that it lasts mere seconds ( 5+ being long ).
Other available games have much longer durations; therefore, I do not consider GW2 to have many conventional CC abilities that would jeopardize anyone for more than a second or so. Which, for the design of the game, works fine as it is normally quite fast-paced.
the CC is very low duration. WoW for example has a lot of 8-10 second CC and DAoC had some insane >1 minute long mezzes and roots (yet somehow they are one of the reasons that made daoc so awesome and unpredictable)
my review of GW2
I see yea CC is short which is good because being constantly locked down for long periods of time isn't fun for anyone imho. Thought you meant just number of CC skills as there are quite a few
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You do realize that as you're standing there putting a dot on him every minute or so while he self-heals that you, too, are effectively neutralized as well? So that fun 8-8 becomes a 7-7 as you have your "fun" griefing the player. If you are truly playing competitively this is not an effective strategy. If you are in a random pug and get your jollies this way then so be it.
It's strange, but for someone who keeps claiming that you like this game and are going to play it, you really do seem to hate most of its features.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
good point you are effectivly taking yourself from the battle as well so as I said this is VERY situational to say the least.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I don't see how that is effectively taking him out of action. Casting a single dot to negate the cast of his heal shouldn't trivialize his contribution to the game, especially considering that, if you play a dot class, it only takes a single key stroke and a tab target to select the downed player and continue to harrass them before moving on to bigger, better things.
As well, regardless of your stance on the topic, it is an effective way to CC someone if they fall into it. Getting your "jollies" would simply be a side-effect of using some of the so-called "strategy" invovled with the downed state.
you are still required to effectivly "sit" on the target though and you are still assuming they are dumb enough to constantly keep bandaging themself as well. So if the fight is going on elsewhere you are taking both of you out of the fight for that time period. Just don't see this one being a very big issue overall.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What if I'm controlling a capture point? It's essentially 5v4 then (or 8v7). If someone comes to 1v1 me I can either stomp him quickly or fight the other guy out of range while dotting the downed guy once every ~15 sec (plus if he goes to rezz him I can use that to my advantage as well). If 2 come to 2v1 me then the rest of the map is 4v2 until they kill me (and I can use stability to stomp him just before they down me). And to all that add the frustration I'm causing him and the fun I'm getting from being evil.
What other features do I hate? I don't even know if I hate the downed state anymore. It opens up so many opportunities for griefing that I'll have fun whether they remove it or not
my review of GW2
Then I'm glad we agree it's not a very good strategy, save for certain particular situations.
Downed state is.. just that, a boring 'ol downed state.
my review of GW2
so you are again assuming that many people are that dumb to just keep spamming their downed heals and not just let themselves die? If you don't spam your downed state heal and you are getting a dot from an enemy you are going to die pretty fast.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But you aren't required to sit on a downed target. All you are 'required' to do is pay attention. As others have pointed it it's just another set of options to keep in mind as you're fighting. You can ignore him, you can place some kind of sustained damage on him (either a dot, a pet, a turret, or just shoot at him every few seconds). You could leave him to die while you run off to cap a diff point. There's a lot of options.
The downed player can contribute to a fight by tossing in some variables while he waits to get back up. The alive players have to way finishing him / ressing him, with how vulnerable they will be if they do so, if they expect backup (or if they think the enemy is going to have backup soon), etc.
As a mechanic it really doesn't force any specific strategy on you as a player. Downed players also decay over time, so if they can't heal themselves back up after a short while, they are dead anyway.
The dot will be casted only when the downed player is healing himself and near 95% or so. If he lets himself die you will let him die.
BTW are saying people will just let themselves die in most cases? How does that add any fun to PvP? How isn't it incredibely frustrating?
my review of GW2
You are both right.
Downed state promotes zerging in large groups, but hurts aggressive play for teams at a disadvantage.
This ^
You'll also find a lot of the more skilled players will weigh death against reviving. If it's faster to just die and respawn, than it is to sit there on your ass, most skilled players will let themselves die. However, as with all skilled games, there are other factors to consider. (i.e. if A necro can get a fear bomb off to delay an enemy from capping a point, that may be worth the extra time on his arse)
I realise that I was talking more in the instance we were discussing to effectivly shutdown a player who is spamming their bandage skill while down and you keep a dot on him to keep him in a downed state while the rest of your teams are elsewhere battling.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
How does it promote zerging? If you play recklessly and get yourself killed, you're still leaving your teamm8s vulnerable, as they will have to take time out of combat to come res you. If the enemy is skilled enough, they can usually keep your teamm8s CCed / distracted long enough to delay the res, and down yet another member of the team.