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The trinity broken (video)

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,624

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/

 

They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.

Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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Comments

  • RivalenRivalen Member Posts: 503
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/

     

    They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.

    Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?

     

    In this game teamwork is more important then specific roles.

     

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    It all makes sense when you realize that there are no roles. Skills have the various damage, control and support aspects tied to them, and they're all at everyones disposal.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 2,857
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/

     

    They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.

    Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?

    uhm in Gw2 while u can spec to have more support role , isnt needed at all.....more dmg or more control means less time dealing with mobs :)
     

    while having a full support team is safer will means the run will go slower.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,957

    Super cool, nice find thanks for post!

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk Member Posts: 894

    I'm just glad that people can finally play any class and any build without worrying about whether or not they'll be able to play with their friends or accomplish their goals.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,723

    I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.



  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904

    2 Things:

    He keeps referring to Gear issues. I thought "gear issues" were abolished in gw2, and there was no notable difference in gear.

    He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.

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  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/breaking-the-trinity/

     

    They beat part of the ascalon catacombs with a full DPS team.

    Did they break the trinnity or would this have been easier with a full team of support pecced players?

    Very interesting.

    I still think that's a completely wrong mindset to look at the combat system, but w/e it should help illustrate it a bit easier to more trinity-oriented folks.

    In this game coordinating skills is definitely the more important way to go. The whole 'dps vs. support' issue I think is less important in a lot of fights, than simply choosing skills that synergize well, as everyone is kind of incharge of taking care of their own health pools.

  • GundricGundric Member UncommonPosts: 344

    I've done some group fighting bosses. It's very different at first but once you get the hang of dodging, using stuns etc. and cordinating with your teammates, it's actually very fun and challenging.  Me and my friend found a boss roaming around a field and with the help of 2 other random people, managed to take him down.  It was nice actually being able to stun/knockback a boss to stay alive instead of just throwing a meatshield at him.  

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,957
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

    Last time I'll explain this lol

    If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

    *sigh*

  • RobertDinhRobertDinh Member Posts: 647

    No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game. 

  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 2,857
    Originally posted by RobertDinh

    No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game. 

    easy pve? Hahahah go and try explorable dungeons and come back

  • MattVidMattVid Member Posts: 399

    I don't think they have really "broken it completely". But they have definitely put a lot less focus on "who you have" rather than "how well you play". Which I think is great.

    While I am sure it is possible to finish content with all DPS, or some DPS and some Control, or some Support and some Control, there are going to be some weaknesses your group will have. Is it outplayable if you play well with your group? Most definitely.

    However, I do definitely think there will be some min/maxing happening with players over time. I could definitely see groups wanting a support class, a control class and maybe 2 DPS. This isn't a stringent requirement, but could result in faster and more smooth runs. If that turns out to be the case, I am sure players will adopt these strategies to make things easier.

    Whether that is really going to happen or not. I don't know. I ran the first dungeon with 2 guardians, a warrior, a ranger and an elementalist and it went pretty well. I have no clue how everyone was spec'd, but I was more defensive/support than DPS. We definitely wiped a few times on bosses here and there, but for the most part it went pretty smooth.

    I am personally not going to care who is in my group. As long as they can play well and hold there own, I won't have an issue. There is no need to create a trinity system if I don't have issues with the dungeons to begin with. But I also don't doubt that people start pushing classes in a certain direction due to the roles that each fits into more than another class. I mean ... it is bound to happen. Hopefully ArenaNet can address these issues and balance things so classes are not pigeonholed into these roles.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy Member UncommonPosts: 2,053

    I'm not really a fan of this video. Also keep in mind that this is just the storymode version of the dungeon.

    We already know that trying to play as the trinity won't work as the tools aren't there. Although I think it would be interesting to see them try it (I would expect it to fail horribly to be honest).

    I think having balanced builds that synergy within the group would have worked better. I understand that this is trying to showcase that they could get through it with whatever build they have. And I'm sure that is true for the story mode versions of the dungeons.

  • causscauss Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

    Last time I'll explain this lol

    If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

    *sigh*

    Yeah.. if everyone can do all, there is just no trinity. I guess some people want to be right, and stretch their argument and logic VERY far.

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607
    Originally posted by Nitth

    2 Things:

    He keeps referring to Gear issues. I thought "gear issues" were abolished in gw2, and there was no notable difference in gear.

    He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.

    If you are level 35 and wearing level 10 gear you will have gear issues.

     

    You are correct. GW2 has more of a soft trinity (IMO) and any class can fill any role.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Nitth

    2 Things:

    He keeps referring to Gear issues. I thought "gear issues" were abolished in gw2, and there was no notable difference in gear.

    He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.

    Yes and no.

    1) It's hard to tell what he's referring to, as the video doesn't seem to really reflect a lot of his statements. For example, most times he complains about dying (except for the add), you may notice that he actually died to a trap (red circle on the ground) and not a mob. He may be aware of this, it's really hard to say one way or another.

    2) Gear issues aren't that big of a deal in GW2. It still helps, but the biggest issue would be if they are under-lvled for the dungeon. Because the game doesn't scale you up to PvE content anymore, only down.

    - It's hard to say if they were running it with white (junk quality) lvl 1 gear (it is a lvl 30 dungeon), or if they were underlvled, or both.

    3) Most fantasy games haven't broken the trinity, so it actually is a big deal. I can only think of a small few that have successfully done it. And of them, most are using completely different mechanics to what we'd consider a normal MMO. It is kind of a big deal.

    4) You'd be surprised how many people don't understand the 'jump in & tank a bit, jump back out' mentallity. There are still a lot of people who complain that warriors can't tank, or guardians, etc, and then you realize they think this way because they aren't used to having to dodge & kite as a melee character.

    You're right, it's not rocket science, but old habits do die hard.

  • RedempRedemp Member UncommonPosts: 1,136

     I enjoy the system in Gw2 , I still think people are going to bring the typical support roles into the dungeons though. We already do it in sPvP and WvW runs, dungeons seem to make even more sense. I would really like to see a glimpse of a super hard dungeon though, I tend to think that because they must "break" the trinity by allowing 5 dps to run a dungeon ... the dungeons are going to be fairly simple. I hope I am completely wrong ....  but even random bosses about in the world,  the skull ones, a buddy and I were able to duo no problem at level.

     

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,624

    One thing is sure, the best heal abbility is a battle rezz...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • RedempRedemp Member UncommonPosts: 1,136
    Originally posted by DJJazzy

     

    We already know that trying to play as the trinity won't work as the tools aren't there. Although I think it would be interesting to see them try it (I would expect it to fail horribly to be honest).

     

     

     Actually ... it can work very well, the tools ARE there. The lack of a taunt mechanic makes it interesting but you can still very much pull off having one person tank damage and heal it.

     

    @ Lord.Barachus  "One thing is sure, the best heal abbility is a battle rezz..."

     I think the Guardians conal full heal is the best personally.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,723
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

    Last time I'll explain this lol

    If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

    *sigh*

    As I have told you before I dont agree. Trinity = damage mitigation, healing and DPS. All 3 roles are in GW2. IF the trinity was dead you would need to remove at least one of the three roles from the game. All three roles are very much alive in GW2 its just played different. Trinity is very much alive and well in GW2, its just done in a way you dont need to LFG. Its well done and smart and I enjoy it but no MMO have given us the death to the trinity yet.



  • RobertDinhRobertDinh Member Posts: 647
    Originally posted by Skuall
    Originally posted by RobertDinh

    No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game. 

    easy pve? Hahahah go and try explorable dungeons and come back

    Yes easy pve, I come from an era where pve content wasn't designed to be beaten in the matter of weeks.  I come from an era when devs made bosses that they weren't even sure were beatable, just to see if players would take up the challenge. 

    You really think gw2 pve even comes close to such challenge?  GW2 isn't even harder than the later wow expansions. 

  • DfixDfix Member UncommonPosts: 238
    Originally posted by RobertDinh

    No the trinity isn't broken, when you are up against easy pve you never had to worry about the trinity in any game. 

    I wish people could contribute to the conversation instead of blurting out this kind of garbage.

    Thank you for making yourself look like a complete tool by having no idea what you're talking about.

     

    I do believe they do a good job with doing away with the trinity. On one hand I'm glad to see it go, on the other I will probably still play a game with it beause I do enjoy it.

    Vivik-Cerberus
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  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Redemp

     Actually ... it can work very well, the tools ARE there. The lack of a taunt mechanic makes it interesting but you can still very much pull off having one person tank damage and heal it.

    Good luck w/ that in explorables.

    The lack of a taunt is much less significant than one of the key aspects of combat being 'avoiding damage'. If you try and meatshield it up on a boss, you will die, and even a team of water eles spamming healing rain won't be able to save you from yourself.

    There are pleanty of ways to get a monster's attention, there aren't many to repair taking significant damage.

    The closest thing this game gets to a trinity is a scale of specs that focus either more heavily on offense, or more heavily on support. However not even the guardian can straight up tank for that long.

  • otacuotacu Member UncommonPosts: 547
    Originally posted by Nitth

     

    He makes it seem like its some milestone that the trinity is broken. There are games without trinities and soft trinities. Whats basicly occurring here seems like a dps is taking a tank psudo role and then switching when low on health. not rocket science.

    Well GW2 has a soft trinity.

    It's not rocket science overall but it's quite the revolution for a mmorpg.

    Lots of mmorpg gamers don't even understand or are capable to figure what a mmorpg without a holy trinity is.

     

    I for one welcome our new no trinity overlords.

    It gives back that old D&D feeling where you can go do adventure without even thinking about "who is tanking? who is healing?"

     

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