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Dungeon finder poll

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  • vesuviasvesuvias Member UncommonPosts: 151
    Originally posted by Zhylaw
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    Mmhh this poll doesn't make much sense. If there's such a tool, people will automatically use it since everybody else will and therefore it will become the only way to find a group (for a dungeon). Even those who voted "NO" will end being forced to use it too.

    A more interesting poll would have been "do you want a dungeon finder in GW2?". But this... is kinda pointless.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but it sure as hell beats not able to find a group or having to wait 30+ min to form one. When SWTOR first released, you had to stand in the fleet station and spam for a group. For the first few dungeons, it wasn't too hard to find one. It'd take you anywhere from 5-15min on average. But mid to late game dungeons took at least 30-60 min if you even found one. That's because everyone was out leveling, instead of wasting their time spamming LFG in the fleet.

    TSW has a better LFG channel, since it spans all zones, but you'd still be LFG for anywhere from 5min to forever. Needless to say, if there was a Dungeon Finder, it'd be a lot easier to get in groups and get the party started. The 10-20 min travel times required in most games to get to the dungeon, added to the possibly 30min it took to find a group, and you then only have those without a life able to group up for dungeons. The rest of us only get at most a few hours a day to play. Who wants to spend 1/3 of their time allottment LFG and Traveling to the dungeon? You then have a 1 hour dungeon, and that's if there aren't any wipes, which always will happen when a game is new and people don't know their classes or dungeon fights yet.

    Compount all of this when the game gets older and the population becomes top heavy. Any newcomers or people rolling alts will have an even tougher time finding groups.

     

             Putting aside the fact that if there is one you have to use it or gimp yourself for a moment....

        As I tried to explain GW2 is NOTHING like SWTOR, WOW or Rift when it comes to grouping.

    1. When adventuring in the world your pretty much auto grouped with everyone around you for all intents and purposes.

    2. There is NO raiding

    3. There is no trinity system or arguebly if there is one its so light touch any random group can get stuff done provided the players themselves know what their doing.

    4. Dungeons aren't nearly as important or integeral to GW2 as they are in other theme parks. Between that + multi guild membership + no trinity system finding people to do dungeons with will be a joke.

    So in closing.....due to gw2's unique design a group finder is pointless and would furthermore actually DAMAGE the core game design.

     

    You cannot logically say not using using an existing DF tool will gimp you and 4 sentences later say that dungeons are nearly as important to GW2 as they are to other themeparks. It either gimps you because they are important or they aren't important and it doesn't gimp you to not do them.

    Dungeons are core part of Arenanets content but not because you "need" them for gear that you would be gimped without. There are 8 of them. By comparison there are 4 sPvP maps and there are 4 WvW maps. There is as much Dungeon specific content as there is all of the PvP content. Arenanet built these to be played by everyone. These are not niche peices of content.

    The reason DF tools pull all of the players into the fold when avialable is because most players don't consider putting togeather a group fun or even that challenging (in terms of thought provoking difficulty). When you've been spamming chat for 15-20 mins you could care less who pops up next you just want a body so you can actually start actually PLAYING this content. Trinity or no, gear based or not, it doesn't matter the logistics of getting 5 players together to play the exact dungeon you are looking to do at the exact time you are looking to do it are problematic. But its a problem that solves itself the more players you throw at it.

    How long will the poor guy who works till 1 am have to spam chat to put together a group to do the level 40 dungeon? And if he only has an hour or two to play? He can't afford a to go LFG and wander around Lion's Arch for a half hour on the off chance he might get lucky. That guy simply doesn't get to play dungeons unless he has a DF tool. But out of the 1.5 million players playing the game there is a pool of players that would probably be willing to do the level 40 dungeon at 1am. But what percentage of that pool is on his server? What percentage of those just happen to be running through lion's arch at the time he spams for more group members? A DF tool maximizes his ability to find someone to play with. He unlike you doesn't care who, he justs wants anyone like him that wants to run the same content when he wants to run it. You would deny him the ability to play with others just so you can keep your guild members and friends from doing dungeons with others and always being avialable to you?

     

  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by stragen001

    Automated dungeon finder tool - No

    Fully featured LFG tool that allows you to look for other people that also want to do that dungeon/DE/Champion/Quest and invite them to group - Yes

    Dungeon Finders ruin community by making people not have to talk to each other

    Im not sure how GW2 dungeons work yet as I havent played through any, but it would be cool if you could automatically group with anyone outside of the dungeon entrance....

    I haven't been in many groups since pre-WoW days where people actually talked anyways. People, since WoW came out, are just in a rush to beat the dungeon asap and collect loot. People are more apt to take things slow at release, but even then, people still rarely talk, so I don't think your point is valid.

  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    Mmhh this poll doesn't make much sense. If there's such a tool, people will automatically use it since everybody else will and therefore it will become the only way to find a group (for a dungeon). Even those who voted "NO" will end being forced to use it too.

    A more interesting poll would have been "do you want a dungeon finder in GW2?". But this... is kinda pointless.

    Exactly this

    To answer your question, yes I will use it since it is already there.

    If you asked whether we want the tool in the game, I would hesitate.

    In WoW, on one hand I am glad that it is there. I remember the times when it took an hour to make a group for low/mid level dungeon. Then if someone left or got DC or something, it was nearly impossible to replace them. Especially if it was tank or healer (not the case of GW obviously). Now you just click a button and in several minutes / seconds (depends on your role), you are inside the dungeon.

    On the other hand, it made the world unnecessary. I can very well play the game without leaving the town which is not the way I wanted the game to be. I remember when WoW actually included open world pvp and exploring. I think that all the dungeon, BG, raid finding tools killed that part of the game.

    Do you want the tool in the game? In spite of the comfortableness it brings, I would probably vote NO.

    I hear this argument using WoW as an example all the time.

    If people want to grind dungeons to lvl up, then that's on them. Otherwise, you still need to explore the world in order to quest and level up. At end game, with or without a dungeon finder, people would be grinding dungeons, raids, and BG's anyways. There's no world exploration at max level for these players, so having or not having a dungeon finder wouldn't change their playstyle.

  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    The less automated systems and more actual talking in a MMORPG the better IMO.

    I prefer to not use dungeon finders. 

    Yes, but GW2 is not that kind of MMO, its for casualls that hate looking for group being stale for 30 minutes, they want a fire and forget tool

    I'm confused why you believe DF's are necessary.  It is my understanding that they were created to overcome the problem of people needing specific roles (usually tanks & healers) and being able to group because of shortages in people willing to play them.

    Since GW2 has no such design I thought pretty much any class combination is viable and in fact what really matters is how skilled a person plays their class is much more important.

    Seems it would behoove a person to take some time to get to know who is worth grouping with rather than just relying on random chance, which frequently results in incompatible pairings, people being kicked, feelings hurt, etc.

    I am a casual player by every definition, and have no issue with being forced to work a bit at being social, take some time using LFG tools and building contacts rather than always playing the game itself.

    In fact, seems like its pretty easy to keep busy doing solo stuff until you find the group you are looking for.

    This title alledgedly does away with traditional dungeon oriented gear grinding gameplay we've all been conditioned  to conform to, and DF'ers are definitely tools designed to support them.  

    I say leave them out and return some of the socialization that MMORPG's used to have.

     

    It takes a while to get to know a person. So while groups are forming around you, you're going to refuse to join them until you get to know the people, which could take days, weeks, and months depending on how often you talk to them? I doubt it, you'll probably join the first group that'll have you, or them to you if you're forming the group, and you'll build contacts from there. So you're still joining random groups until you've played with people long enough to get to know them.

  • prpshrtprpshrt Member Posts: 258

    Will probably use it if it's there. Now whether I want one in game or not is another question. Don't want it.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    The less automated systems and more actual talking in a MMORPG the better IMO.

    I prefer to not use dungeon finders. 

    Yes, but GW2 is not that kind of MMO, its for casualls that hate looking for group being stale for 30 minutes, they want a fire and forget tool

    I'm confused why you believe DF's are necessary.  It is my understanding that they were created to overcome the problem of people needing specific roles (usually tanks & healers) and being able to group because of shortages in people willing to play them.

    Since GW2 has no such design I thought pretty much any class combination is viable and in fact what really matters is how skilled a person plays their class is much more important.

    Seems it would behoove a person to take some time to get to know who is worth grouping with rather than just relying on random chance, which frequently results in incompatible pairings, people being kicked, feelings hurt, etc.

    I am a casual player by every definition, and have no issue with being forced to work a bit at being social, take some time using LFG tools and building contacts rather than always playing the game itself.

    In fact, seems like its pretty easy to keep busy doing solo stuff until you find the group you are looking for.

    This title alledgedly does away with traditional dungeon oriented gear grinding gameplay we've all been conditioned  to conform to, and DF'ers are definitely tools designed to support them.  

    I say leave them out and return some of the socialization that MMORPG's used to have.

     

    It takes a while to get to know a person. So while groups are forming around you, you're going to refuse to join them until you get to know the people, which could take days, weeks, and months depending on how often you talk to them? I doubt it, you'll probably join the first group that'll have you, or them to you if you're forming the group, and you'll build contacts from there. So you're still joining random groups until you've played with people long enough to get to know them.

    Except the dungeon finder groups you with people you'll never see again after you leave the dungeon. Not to mention the majority of people using the tool are anti social, so they won't talk even in the dungeon, and you won't make any lasting relationships.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    I don´t care one way or the other, I usually do dungeons with friends and guildies, or get invited by people I meet in the open world but on the other hand is it not anything that affect me in any way so I am not against it either.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by kantseeme

     

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by Rivalen You can't really compare GW2 grouping to other games and there is where you're confusing the need for a dungeon finder.  
    GW2 will need it more then any other MMo out there...
    why?
     Because there is no open world grouping required. And to succeed with many of the casuall players that prefer this easy to use grouping methodes. There is almost no interplayer ineraction and communication during the dynamic events, it will be a culture shock for people once actuall communication is required to find groups for the few dungeons

     

    Aye i actually agree with you for once lol. :)

    Now clean up the spelling and typos.  Heh.

    When do you arrogant people finally grab the fact that many people on these boardsare not natively English speaking?

     

    I would love to see you post on these boards in Dutch, German or French, as those are other languages i mastered to some degree. Get over it, English spelling and grammar got lost when everyoen in the world addopted it as the international trade language.

     

    Acting as spelling Nazi is not even remotely funny to me. Its irritaitng and gets old fast, showing that you dont even graps the basics of an international community.

     

    Sorry if it hurt, but this just has to be said from time to time.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • AishiramiAishirami Member Posts: 47
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Now clean up the spelling and typos.  Heh.

    When do you arrogant people finally grab the fact that many people on these boardsare not natively English speaking?

     

    I would love to see you post on these boards in Dutch, German or French, as those are other languages i mastered to some degree. Get over it, English spelling and grammar got lost when everyoen in the world addopted it as the international trade language.

     

    Acting as spelling Nazi is not even remotely funny to me. Its irritaitng and gets old fast, showing that you dont even graps the basics of an international community.

     

    Sorry if it hurt, but this just has to be said from time to time.

    I'm with you on this.... my brother is one of them -_-

    I have yet to see how one could gain pride from calling themselves some form of a Nazi....

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,036

    I would definitely use it for instances.  I have a feeling GW2 will be my go to game for PVP but not PVE.

     

    All AAA MMOs should have group finders on release though.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by Aishirami
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Now clean up the spelling and typos.  Heh.

    When do you arrogant people finally grab the fact that many people on these boardsare not natively English speaking?

     

    I would love to see you post on these boards in Dutch, German or French, as those are other languages i mastered to some degree. Get over it, English spelling and grammar got lost when everyoen in the world addopted it as the international trade language.

     

    Acting as spelling Nazi is not even remotely funny to me. Its irritaitng and gets old fast, showing that you dont even graps the basics of an international community.

     

    Sorry if it hurt, but this just has to be said from time to time.

    I'm with you on this.... my brother is one of them -_-

    I have yet to see how one could gain pride from calling themselves some form of a Nazi....

    Any way, peopel should concentrate on the contents of the message and not on the wrapping.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • joocheesejoocheese Member Posts: 845
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Any way, peopel should concentrate on the contents of the message and not on the wrapping.

    Agreed, if we start talking about Nazis, considering how they affected our recent history, it's only going to end badly. Let's get back to the topic at hand!

    I personally do not want a DF in GW2, but for the sake of those who do not have as much time as I do to play GW2, if the DF can increase their gameplay and have them enjoy more of GW2... how can I be against that? I can't. If the day came where I could only spend a little time in GW2, I would want something which would allow me to enjoy GW2 as much as possible.

    So I guess I'm in favor of a DF for GW2.

  • RequiamerRequiamer Member Posts: 2,034
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan

    Mmhh this poll doesn't make much sense. If there's such a tool, people will automatically use it since everybody else will and therefore it will become the only way to find a group (for a dungeon). Even those who voted "NO" will end being forced to use it too.

    A more interesting poll would have been "do you want a dungeon finder in GW2?". But this... is kinda pointless.

    This

     

    Aslo group finder are good for games with some age already, i'll rather let them build some server community at first, they could lock the tool to be server wide at first though, no matter if you can go in other server with much restriction. Honestly i don't thing it's such a big thing as many think, almost all the mmo i played had no finder and we never had problem with group, trinity made it a must, without it, i don't think it will be that needed.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,930
    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Vesavius

    The less automated systems and more actual talking in a MMORPG the better IMO.

    I prefer to not use dungeon finders. 

    Yes, but GW2 is not that kind of MMO, its for casualls that hate looking for group being stale for 30 minutes, they want a fire and forget tool

    I'm confused why you believe DF's are necessary.  It is my understanding that they were created to overcome the problem of people needing specific roles (usually tanks & healers) and being able to group because of shortages in people willing to play them.

    Since GW2 has no such design I thought pretty much any class combination is viable and in fact what really matters is how skilled a person plays their class is much more important.

    Seems it would behoove a person to take some time to get to know who is worth grouping with rather than just relying on random chance, which frequently results in incompatible pairings, people being kicked, feelings hurt, etc.

    I am a casual player by every definition, and have no issue with being forced to work a bit at being social, take some time using LFG tools and building contacts rather than always playing the game itself.

    In fact, seems like its pretty easy to keep busy doing solo stuff until you find the group you are looking for.

    This title alledgedly does away with traditional dungeon oriented gear grinding gameplay we've all been conditioned  to conform to, and DF'ers are definitely tools designed to support them.  

    I say leave them out and return some of the socialization that MMORPG's used to have.

     

    It takes a while to get to know a person. So while groups are forming around you, you're going to refuse to join them until you get to know the people, which could take days, weeks, and months depending on how often you talk to them? I doubt it, you'll probably join the first group that'll have you, or them to you if you're forming the group, and you'll build contacts from there. So you're still joining random groups until you've played with people long enough to get to know them.

    Except the dungeon finder groups you with people you'll never see again after you leave the dungeon. Not to mention the majority of people using the tool are anti social, so they won't talk even in the dungeon, and you won't make any lasting relationships.

    I think you'll find that many of those folks actually are not antisocial at all, but the game mechanics neither encourage nor really even provide the time during a dungeon run in order for people to be social at all.

    The lack of forced downtime between fights is probably the single greatest change in modern MMO's which greatly improved the solo player's experience while at the same time inherently destroying the socialization opportunities that groupers took advantage of.

    In fact, one of the key reasons to group up in DAOC was to help reduce downtime between fights, which therefore increased the speed at which you could level.  Add in all the bonus exp and rewards grouping gave you and players were heavily encouraged and incentived to group, something not present in modern MMO's to the same degree.

    Dungeon finders didn't cause the problem, and in fact are a practical solution in a traditional theme park MMO.

    GW2 is supposed to employ many different mechanics which should in theory make the need for a DF a lot less necessary, but perhaps in practice it doesn't really turn out the way it was intended.

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297

    I think the game should have a dungeon finder.. there is no harm to it at all. Those that would rather form their own groups can and will still do so, just like in every other game. GW2 is even better because you can still teleport straight to the dungeon and back without using a finder.

    I often miss out dungeons in games during the leveling process because I can't be bothered wasting time getting a group and wasting time sorting out the group if someone leaves early. I have hardly done any of the dungeons in TSW but in Rift and TERA I did them all thanks to the dungeon finder. Doesn't matter if you think that's a bad way to play or not, it's the reality for a lot of people.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • InFlamestwoInFlamestwo Member Posts: 662

    There is a teleport to each dungeon already. If you have been there before you can get there in an instant. Dungeon Finder isn't really necessary and will only ruin the game.

    image

  • stayBlindstayBlind Member UncommonPosts: 512

    They also need to have a botting feature built in.

    Then I won't have to do any work at all to play! Awesome!

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • DerrosDerros Member UncommonPosts: 1,216

    There are 2 options for the "masses" in MMOs for grouping in themeparks.  Some incarnation of dungeon finder, or LFG spam, I really havent seen anything else that worked for "the silent majority".  Heck even EQ was full of camp checks and "Druid LFG P caverns/Dervish camp"  God forbid they were all full.  Note that neither of these two options would impede players from making friends and forming up groups themselves. 

     

    I think the lack of socialization is, as Kyleran put it, because of the constant action/lack of downtime/no waiting for respawns that games work off of these days.  TSW is a big example of this, the instances usually go, Trash mob group, boss/boss/boss/trash pack/final boss.  Maybe taking 20 mins with a good group. 

     

    There isnt any stopping to chat, why would you? unless someone is new, if not, we've all done it a dozen times, any the others are probally just socializing on vent/TS/mumble with their guild anyway.  Now, ive explained many boss fights to new players in TSW, happy to do so, ill wipe a few times while they are getting the hang of it, no worries, most of the group feels the same way, the dungeons are short enough anyway. 

     

    Nightmare modes are another story many groups are requiring some form of VOIP to join, because of the difficulty, so maybe thats more of a social situation?

  • ZhylawZhylaw Member Posts: 115
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    There is a teleport to each dungeon already. If you have been there before you can get there in an instant. Dungeon Finder isn't really necessary and will only ruin the game.

     

     

    As I said earlier, I think most people who want a group finder don't understand how different GW2 is from other MMO's. Not only is it not needed but it would actually DAMAGE THE GAME.

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by petespriton
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Scypheroth

    dungeon finders r the worst possible thing to happen to a MMO! It KILLED WoW....whast the point of having a wrld if ppl just sit in town and click a button to find a dungeon?

     

    I miss the days of wow where you get a grp together, and everyone meets up at the location...gave the game  a sense of exploration and fun....if this isnt fr you and you prefer a dungeon finder then get out of the MMO gamebase you GD scumbag! you killed wow now you wish to INFECT all other MMO's with this VIRUS or LAZYNESS!

    it did not kill wow.. I can see the argument for cross server but overall the tool did not kill wow or its community and the fact so many people say this is really ridiculous imho. Many other factors come into play with the degenerated community you find in many of these games and the LFD tools are the least of their problems.

     When did you start playing WoW, Aerowyn?  I am genuinely curious.  When you stopped, or if you stopped would be helpful to know as well.

    played from beta till a couple months past WoTLK

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Zhylaw
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    There is a teleport to each dungeon already. If you have been there before you can get there in an instant. Dungeon Finder isn't really necessary and will only ruin the game.

     

     

    As I said earlier, I think most people who want a group finder don't understand how different GW2 is from other MMO's. Not only is it not needed but it would actually DAMAGE THE GAME.

    and how is that?

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898
    Originally posted by Vannor

    I think the game should have a dungeon finder.. there is no harm to it at all.

    There's tons of harm in it. It's incredibly short sighted to say otherwise.

  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,639

    Yes i will use it ........ ftw!


    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • AerowynAerowyn Member Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Garvon3
    Originally posted by Vannor

    I think the game should have a dungeon finder.. there is no harm to it at all.

    There's tons of harm in it. It's incredibly short sighted to say otherwise.

    what's all this harm people speak of? I see arguments it destroys communities all the time with no reason why at all. Explain how spamming chat to get a PUG will end any differn't than a random dungeon finder match system? In the end a pug is a pug(Cross server I can understand but no one is talking cross server LFD here). You want to truly play with people you trust to do well play with friends and guildmates. Pugs are a gamble no matter how the players are matched so why make it harder to get players together? i don't understand this logic at all. The downfall of many games communities does not come from some group matching system it comes down to the game itself. In a game designed around a gear grind where most peoples goal is to run an instance over and over hoping for that .001% drop the end result is a what has happened to the games of the past like wow. The instances no longer become about fun for many but become a chore and a job hoping to one day get that uber gear to show off to the world. This type of game brings out the worst in people and communities but how people are brought together to just run that instance in the end really doesn't change much at all.

     

    Also in a game that allows instant teleports to most all locations once you have visited them I don't see any issues with instant teleports to dungeons in this game.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • KyelthisKyelthis Member UncommonPosts: 287

    We don't need one in my opinion. Hit "M", see dungeons, go there, simple enough.

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