no dungeon finder would ruine the game like it did to WOW.
coz u just loose the fun and end up with randonme people thta you dont know or get to know and that you will never see again
can't believe people really think this.. dungeon finder did not ruin wow nor its community..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
no dungeon finder would ruine the game like it did to WOW.
coz u just loose the fun and end up with randonme people thta you dont know or get to know and that you will never see again
can't believe people really think this.. dungeon finder did not ruin wow nor its community..
Agreed what ruined the community was the community itself and that isn't to say thet its all a bad apple im sure there is still good parts left but more often then not you'll find worms.
Far as group finder or no group finder...
Yes why not? it does add convience which this game is full of.
Yes I would use it.
BUT make it server only so that there is a chance for a lasting friendship and partnership.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by VesaviusThe less automated systems and more actual talking in a MMORPG the better IMO. I prefer to not use dungeon finders.
Yes, but GW2 is not that kind of MMO, its for casualls that hate looking for group being stale for 30 minutes, they want a fire and forget tool
You have a whole pile of assumption going on here.
In my experiences casual players feel less pressure to have all of these "tools" than other groups. I have found plenty of hardcore players that want to save time by using dungeon finders and rush through the content as fast as they can. I also know casual players that feel the same way.
An automatic group-formation tool would be nice, but i wouldn't want it to teleport us to the entrance. I've mentioned it before, but i think it would be nice to have a drop-down selection menu for dungeons on the Map UI.
only with one stipulation, that it doesn't and will never instantly teleport you to the dungeon. That's my only requirement, otherwise it is a necessary tool for any mmo with dungeons.
I personally prefer open world everything but they added dungeons anyway and that's fine but that pretty much was the only disappointment i experienced at all for this title.
Originally posted by VesaviusThe less automated systems and more actual talking in a MMORPG the better IMO. I prefer to not use dungeon finders.
Yes, but GW2 is not that kind of MMO, its for casualls that hate looking for group being stale for 30 minutes, they want a fire and forget tool
You have a whole pile of assumption going on here.
In my experiences casual players feel less pressure to have all of these "tools" than other groups. I have found plenty of hardcore players that want to save time by using dungeon finders and rush through the content as fast as they can. I also know casual players that feel the same way.
I always find it amazing how people who don't seem to really know how the communities work (not you chef) blame the wrong community for tools they don't like. We all know from experience that it's always been the content consumers and the hard core pve'ers and the pvp communities that result in the tools and "features" that kill immersion, not the other way around. They have to have everything right now. Heck the reason they put teleporters in this world is due to these people (rather then flight paths and or machine rides).
only with one stipulation, that it doesn't and will never instantly teleport you to the dungeon. That's my only requirement, otherwise it is a necessary tool for any mmo with dungeons.
I personally prefer open world everything but they added dungeons anyway and that's fine but that pretty much was the only disappointment i experienced at all for this title.
In a game like this why would the instant teleport thing be a big deal for you?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
dungeon finders r the worst possible thing to happen to a MMO! It KILLED WoW....whast the point of having a wrld if ppl just sit in town and click a button to find a dungeon?
I miss the days of wow where you get a grp together, and everyone meets up at the location...gave the game a sense of exploration and fun....if this isnt fr you and you prefer a dungeon finder then get out of the MMO gamebase you GD scumbag! you killed wow now you wish to INFECT all other MMO's with this VIRUS or LAZYNESS!
The less automated systems and more actual talking in a MMORPG the better IMO.
I prefer to not use dungeon finders.
Yes, but GW2 is not that kind of MMO, its for casualls that hate looking for group being stale for 30 minutes, they want a fire and forget tool
why exactly is guild wars 2 for casuals? it has more depth than most mmo's on the market.
Depth, or casual? You don t need to be hardcore to play a deep game. Casual in the fact, you don t have to group for literally anything, except dungeons. In other words I can log in, do some DEs, WvW, SPvP, story quest, log out, without needing anyone. Thats the epitome of casual. If it has alot of depth, just means casuals will have alot time to enjoy the game.
It adds convenience but can detract from community. In WoW, for example, I noticed time and again when doing a random group that social norms would get thrown out the window since you'd never see those folks again. It gave people a license to act in a self-centered and boorish manner.
If they added one, it would be helpful if it were server-specific, so that one's "reputation" would follow them.
However, since you could run a dungeon with, say, 5 necromancers, I wonder how hard it would be to actually make a group?
The things that always slowed down group formation was "LF Tank" or "LF Healer" then GTG. With that gone, what's to stop people from quickly grouping, at least for story modes?
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I'm generally against such tools but from my experience in GW2 there really wasn't anything a grouping tool could kill- the great majority of interactions I had with other players was through actions: reviving someone when I'd seen they'd fallen or helping with a mob or unintended add; very rarely was a word said- or even necessary.
GW2 in my experience has mechanics that allow players to be social without ever actually socializing- a dungeonfinder just seems par for the course.
I would love a dungeon finder tool but Im not sure if I want one that instantly teleports you to the dungeon though. Id like it to just put a group together for me but we all have to meet up at the dungeon
I would love a dungeon finder tool but Im not sure if I want one that instantly teleports you to the dungeon though. Id like it to just put a group together for me but we all have to meet up at the dungeon
you are like the 10th person to say this.. in a game like GW2 that has instant teleports all over as soon as they are discovered what would be the big deal with instant teleport for dungeons?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
dungeon finders r the worst possible thing to happen to a MMO! It KILLED WoW....whast the point of having a wrld if ppl just sit in town and click a button to find a dungeon?
I miss the days of wow where you get a grp together, and everyone meets up at the location...gave the game a sense of exploration and fun....if this isnt fr you and you prefer a dungeon finder then get out of the MMO gamebase you GD scumbag! you killed wow now you wish to INFECT all other MMO's with this VIRUS or LAZYNESS!
it did not kill wow.. I can see the argument for cross server but overall the tool did not kill wow or its community and the fact so many people say this is really ridiculous imho. Many other factors come into play with the degenerated community you find in many of these games and the LFD tools are the least of their problems.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Those who voted no, are 100% free to find groups w/o it.
Those who voted yet are not 100% free to find groups w/o it because they don't have endless hours to sit on a video game day after day spamming general and global chat channels in hopes of getting a group together. WoW has been doing very well with a group finder and even a RAID finder tool. Plenty of top guilds never use these things, or they use them for solo play between raid nights when they want a fast group...
Feel like this is a troll attempt, considering LFG tools have already proven to be very valuable and only an extremely limited group of players are against them (mainly the lot who troll these forums).
Rift, WoW, SWTOR, EQ2... Every major MMO player just about has a LFG tool or added one shortly after release if i'm not mistaken. They're an important tool in the modern MMO market.
I understand the arguments for and against having a dungeon finder. However, as a casual player (once hardcore in the DAoC/SWG days), I'd prefer to spend the small amount of time I have each day playing, instead of spamming LFG in a channel for minutes/hours on end.
I think a smart LFG system would be better than having nothing or a one button port inside dungeon feature. Let people put themselves into "the system" and have those looking for groupmates decide which professions they want to build a group from without leaving it to an algorithm. There may be no set roles but condition types would be one example of selective grouping.
dungeon finders r the worst possible thing to happen to a MMO! It KILLED WoW....whast the point of having a wrld if ppl just sit in town and click a button to find a dungeon?
I miss the days of wow where you get a grp together, and everyone meets up at the location...gave the game a sense of exploration and fun....if this isnt fr you and you prefer a dungeon finder then get out of the MMO gamebase you GD scumbag! you killed wow now you wish to INFECT all other MMO's with this VIRUS or LAZYNESS!
it did not kill wow.. I can see the argument for cross server but overall the tool did not kill wow or its community and the fact so many people say this is really ridiculous imho. Many other factors come into play with the degenerated community you find in many of these games and the LFD tools are the least of their problems.
When did you start playing WoW, Aerowyn? I am genuinely curious. When you stopped, or if you stopped would be helpful to know as well.
No sane person would NOT use a group finder if it was in game, you would have no choice but to use it unless you have a guild full of buddies and even then most of the time theres some perk for using it.
Furthermore if you understood the group dynamics, lack of trinity system, no "raids" and lack of dungeon focus or to put it simply actually understoof what the basic design of GW2 was, you would realize how pointless and actually damaging a group finder would be to the game.
The only real question is whether or not we ACTUALLY WANT ONE.
Seriously this poll gives me chest pains.
I chose no and am pretending thats the I dont want a group finder option.
I am for a tool to help players find groups on their own.
I am against a tool that auto-groups players.
There is a difference.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Rather than completely automated dungeon finder like the one Blizzard introduced with WoW, I'd like to see a proper LFG list with filters and all that fancy stuff. That way people could tag themselves as looking for specific dungeon and would be easy to find. Would also help with getting paired with people you might not really want to play with (due to previous experience or whatever).
Sadly, the current LFG in GW2 is probably one of weakest points of the game, since it only works in one zone and does not include any information on what exactly is given person looking for.
Right -- something like a bulletin board would be better.
Mmhh this poll doesn't make much sense. If there's such a tool, people will automatically use it since everybody else will and therefore it will become the only way to find a group (for a dungeon). Even those who voted "NO" will end being forced to use it too.
A more interesting poll would have been "do you want a dungeon finder in GW2?". But this... is kinda pointless.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it sure as hell beats not able to find a group or having to wait 30+ min to form one. When SWTOR first released, you had to stand in the fleet station and spam for a group. For the first few dungeons, it wasn't too hard to find one. It'd take you anywhere from 5-15min on average. But mid to late game dungeons took at least 30-60 min if you even found one. That's because everyone was out leveling, instead of wasting their time spamming LFG in the fleet.
TSW has a better LFG channel, since it spans all zones, but you'd still be LFG for anywhere from 5min to forever. Needless to say, if there was a Dungeon Finder, it'd be a lot easier to get in groups and get the party started. The 10-20 min travel times required in most games to get to the dungeon, added to the possibly 30min it took to find a group, and you then only have those without a life able to group up for dungeons. The rest of us only get at most a few hours a day to play. Who wants to spend 1/3 of their time allottment LFG and Traveling to the dungeon? You then have a 1 hour dungeon, and that's if there aren't any wipes, which always will happen when a game is new and people don't know their classes or dungeon fights yet.
Compount all of this when the game gets older and the population becomes top heavy. Any newcomers or people rolling alts will have an even tougher time finding groups.
Mmhh this poll doesn't make much sense. If there's such a tool, people will automatically use it since everybody else will and therefore it will become the only way to find a group (for a dungeon). Even those who voted "NO" will end being forced to use it too.
A more interesting poll would have been "do you want a dungeon finder in GW2?". But this... is kinda pointless.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it sure as hell beats not able to find a group or having to wait 30+ min to form one. When SWTOR first released, you had to stand in the fleet station and spam for a group. For the first few dungeons, it wasn't too hard to find one. It'd take you anywhere from 5-15min on average. But mid to late game dungeons took at least 30-60 min if you even found one. That's because everyone was out leveling, instead of wasting their time spamming LFG in the fleet.
TSW has a better LFG channel, since it spans all zones, but you'd still be LFG for anywhere from 5min to forever. Needless to say, if there was a Dungeon Finder, it'd be a lot easier to get in groups and get the party started. The 10-20 min travel times required in most games to get to the dungeon, added to the possibly 30min it took to find a group, and you then only have those without a life able to group up for dungeons. The rest of us only get at most a few hours a day to play. Who wants to spend 1/3 of their time allottment LFG and Traveling to the dungeon? You then have a 1 hour dungeon, and that's if there aren't any wipes, which always will happen when a game is new and people don't know their classes or dungeon fights yet.
Compount all of this when the game gets older and the population becomes top heavy. Any newcomers or people rolling alts will have an even tougher time finding groups.
Putting aside the fact that if there is one you have to use it or gimp yourself for a moment....
As I tried to explain GW2 is NOTHING like SWTOR, WOW or Rift when it comes to grouping.
1. When adventuring in the world your pretty much auto grouped with everyone around you for all intents and purposes.
2. There is NO raiding
3. There is no trinity system or arguebly if there is one its so light touch any random group can get stuff done provided the players themselves know what their doing.
4. Dungeons aren't nearly as important or integeral to GW2 as they are in other theme parks. Between that + multi guild membership + no trinity system finding people to do dungeons with will be a joke.
So in closing.....due to gw2's unique design a group finder is pointless and would furthermore actually DAMAGE the core game design.
Those who voted no, are 100% free to find groups w/o it.
Those who voted yet are not 100% free to find groups w/o it because they don't have endless hours to sit on a video game day after day spamming general and global chat channels in hopes of getting a group together. WoW has been doing very well with a group finder and even a RAID finder tool. Plenty of top guilds never use these things, or they use them for solo play between raid nights when they want a fast group...
Feel like this is a troll attempt, considering LFG tools have already proven to be very valuable and only an extremely limited group of players are against them (mainly the lot who troll these forums).
Rift, WoW, SWTOR, EQ2... Every major MMO player just about has a LFG tool or added one shortly after release if i'm not mistaken. They're an important tool in the modern MMO market.
Great post.
For all of the clamoring about the "social" aspects this will break the "no DF tool" proponents simply do not care, have little repect or empathy for and have zero understanding of casually playing a MMO. They would be all too happy to completely lock out the casual crowd from dungeouns all togeather. They have no intention of grouping with these "bads", you will never be skilled enough to join thier group. This issue is simply MMO elitism masked under the guise of community building. They aren't interested in the community because they are all to happy to simply eliminate the casual segment from thier dungeoun games. They believe Arenanet made these dungeons for them and only people like them.
You can say "but I don't have time to spam chat and sit in town waiting for a group to form" all day long until you're blue in the face. But don't expect the community building retorict they are trying to push to change thier response to from anything but an unempathic "maybe dungeons aren't for you then". Nothing kills a community faster than elitism born in the womb of exlusion.
Comments
Voted no myself but don't really care either way. I think it was a bit wrong to state your oppinion before posing the question though.
can't believe people really think this.. dungeon finder did not ruin wow nor its community..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Agreed what ruined the community was the community itself and that isn't to say thet its all a bad apple im sure there is still good parts left but more often then not you'll find worms.
Far as group finder or no group finder...
Yes why not? it does add convience which this game is full of.
Yes I would use it.
BUT make it server only so that there is a chance for a lasting friendship and partnership.
Seeing how there is no factions...this is easy.
As Always IMHO
In my humble opinion.
M.
You have a whole pile of assumption going on here.
In my experiences casual players feel less pressure to have all of these "tools" than other groups. I have found plenty of hardcore players that want to save time by using dungeon finders and rush through the content as fast as they can. I also know casual players that feel the same way.
An automatic group-formation tool would be nice, but i wouldn't want it to teleport us to the entrance. I've mentioned it before, but i think it would be nice to have a drop-down selection menu for dungeons on the Map UI.
only with one stipulation, that it doesn't and will never instantly teleport you to the dungeon. That's my only requirement, otherwise it is a necessary tool for any mmo with dungeons.
I personally prefer open world everything but they added dungeons anyway and that's fine but that pretty much was the only disappointment i experienced at all for this title.
I always find it amazing how people who don't seem to really know how the communities work (not you chef) blame the wrong community for tools they don't like. We all know from experience that it's always been the content consumers and the hard core pve'ers and the pvp communities that result in the tools and "features" that kill immersion, not the other way around. They have to have everything right now. Heck the reason they put teleporters in this world is due to these people (rather then flight paths and or machine rides).
In a game like this why would the instant teleport thing be a big deal for you?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
dungeon finders r the worst possible thing to happen to a MMO! It KILLED WoW....whast the point of having a wrld if ppl just sit in town and click a button to find a dungeon?
I miss the days of wow where you get a grp together, and everyone meets up at the location...gave the game a sense of exploration and fun....if this isnt fr you and you prefer a dungeon finder then get out of the MMO gamebase you GD scumbag! you killed wow now you wish to INFECT all other MMO's with this VIRUS or LAZYNESS!
Depth, or casual? You don t need to be hardcore to play a deep game. Casual in the fact, you don t have to group for literally anything, except dungeons. In other words I can log in, do some DEs, WvW, SPvP, story quest, log out, without needing anyone. Thats the epitome of casual. If it has alot of depth, just means casuals will have alot time to enjoy the game.
I have mixed feelings about a dungeon finder.
It adds convenience but can detract from community. In WoW, for example, I noticed time and again when doing a random group that social norms would get thrown out the window since you'd never see those folks again. It gave people a license to act in a self-centered and boorish manner.
If they added one, it would be helpful if it were server-specific, so that one's "reputation" would follow them.
However, since you could run a dungeon with, say, 5 necromancers, I wonder how hard it would be to actually make a group?
The things that always slowed down group formation was "LF Tank" or "LF Healer" then GTG. With that gone, what's to stop people from quickly grouping, at least for story modes?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I'm generally against such tools but from my experience in GW2 there really wasn't anything a grouping tool could kill- the great majority of interactions I had with other players was through actions: reviving someone when I'd seen they'd fallen or helping with a mob or unintended add; very rarely was a word said- or even necessary.
GW2 in my experience has mechanics that allow players to be social without ever actually socializing- a dungeonfinder just seems par for the course.
I would love a dungeon finder tool but Im not sure if I want one that instantly teleports you to the dungeon though. Id like it to just put a group together for me but we all have to meet up at the dungeon
you are like the 10th person to say this.. in a game like GW2 that has instant teleports all over as soon as they are discovered what would be the big deal with instant teleport for dungeons?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
it did not kill wow.. I can see the argument for cross server but overall the tool did not kill wow or its community and the fact so many people say this is really ridiculous imho. Many other factors come into play with the degenerated community you find in many of these games and the LFD tools are the least of their problems.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Those who voted no, are 100% free to find groups w/o it.
Those who voted yet are not 100% free to find groups w/o it because they don't have endless hours to sit on a video game day after day spamming general and global chat channels in hopes of getting a group together. WoW has been doing very well with a group finder and even a RAID finder tool. Plenty of top guilds never use these things, or they use them for solo play between raid nights when they want a fast group...
Feel like this is a troll attempt, considering LFG tools have already proven to be very valuable and only an extremely limited group of players are against them (mainly the lot who troll these forums).
Rift, WoW, SWTOR, EQ2... Every major MMO player just about has a LFG tool or added one shortly after release if i'm not mistaken. They're an important tool in the modern MMO market.
I understand the arguments for and against having a dungeon finder. However, as a casual player (once hardcore in the DAoC/SWG days), I'd prefer to spend the small amount of time I have each day playing, instead of spamming LFG in a channel for minutes/hours on end.
So I voted YES
When did you start playing WoW, Aerowyn? I am genuinely curious. When you stopped, or if you stopped would be helpful to know as well.
This poll is painfully incomplete.
No sane person would NOT use a group finder if it was in game, you would have no choice but to use it unless you have a guild full of buddies and even then most of the time theres some perk for using it.
Furthermore if you understood the group dynamics, lack of trinity system, no "raids" and lack of dungeon focus or to put it simply actually understoof what the basic design of GW2 was, you would realize how pointless and actually damaging a group finder would be to the game.
The only real question is whether or not we ACTUALLY WANT ONE.
Seriously this poll gives me chest pains.
I chose no and am pretending thats the I dont want a group finder option.
I am for a tool to help players find groups on their own.
I am against a tool that auto-groups players.
There is a difference.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Right -- something like a bulletin board would be better.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but it sure as hell beats not able to find a group or having to wait 30+ min to form one. When SWTOR first released, you had to stand in the fleet station and spam for a group. For the first few dungeons, it wasn't too hard to find one. It'd take you anywhere from 5-15min on average. But mid to late game dungeons took at least 30-60 min if you even found one. That's because everyone was out leveling, instead of wasting their time spamming LFG in the fleet.
TSW has a better LFG channel, since it spans all zones, but you'd still be LFG for anywhere from 5min to forever. Needless to say, if there was a Dungeon Finder, it'd be a lot easier to get in groups and get the party started. The 10-20 min travel times required in most games to get to the dungeon, added to the possibly 30min it took to find a group, and you then only have those without a life able to group up for dungeons. The rest of us only get at most a few hours a day to play. Who wants to spend 1/3 of their time allottment LFG and Traveling to the dungeon? You then have a 1 hour dungeon, and that's if there aren't any wipes, which always will happen when a game is new and people don't know their classes or dungeon fights yet.
Compount all of this when the game gets older and the population becomes top heavy. Any newcomers or people rolling alts will have an even tougher time finding groups.
Putting aside the fact that if there is one you have to use it or gimp yourself for a moment....
As I tried to explain GW2 is NOTHING like SWTOR, WOW or Rift when it comes to grouping.
1. When adventuring in the world your pretty much auto grouped with everyone around you for all intents and purposes.
2. There is NO raiding
3. There is no trinity system or arguebly if there is one its so light touch any random group can get stuff done provided the players themselves know what their doing.
4. Dungeons aren't nearly as important or integeral to GW2 as they are in other theme parks. Between that + multi guild membership + no trinity system finding people to do dungeons with will be a joke.
So in closing.....due to gw2's unique design a group finder is pointless and would furthermore actually DAMAGE the core game design.
Great post.
For all of the clamoring about the "social" aspects this will break the "no DF tool" proponents simply do not care, have little repect or empathy for and have zero understanding of casually playing a MMO. They would be all too happy to completely lock out the casual crowd from dungeouns all togeather. They have no intention of grouping with these "bads", you will never be skilled enough to join thier group. This issue is simply MMO elitism masked under the guise of community building. They aren't interested in the community because they are all to happy to simply eliminate the casual segment from thier dungeoun games. They believe Arenanet made these dungeons for them and only people like them.
You can say "but I don't have time to spam chat and sit in town waiting for a group to form" all day long until you're blue in the face. But don't expect the community building retorict they are trying to push to change thier response to from anything but an unempathic "maybe dungeons aren't for you then". Nothing kills a community faster than elitism born in the womb of exlusion.