I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Yeah that happened to me too. Sometimes people say "noobs" or "u suck" before ragequitting.
the less need for social interaction in MMOs, the less fun they get, even with the more and more frequent player who doesnt care for the social side of MMOs at all, but just want the game part....so voted no, even if I would more than likely use it, if there were a dungeon finder tool,,,,even though I never used it in EQ2, but then atleast when I played it worked horrible, and my guild werent that dead at the time, also people have always used the chat channels.
am just very much against the whole notion of making the point of MMOs, into instance grinding, it just make the whole perception of MMOs so very horrible boring, do like a good instance but want it to feel like an achievement, not only to clear but to reach as well, for the sake of making it feel like more of a part of the world, also its just great when you happen to stumble into a "special place" during a dungeon run, which wont happen either now, since everything have to be mapped out, or it get "frustrating" >< even can accept fog of war on that...the compromise for that issue.
so...dungeon finder blargh imo...it take away the "journey" how ever long or short it might be made by the designers, it is something I miss alot from MMOs, if dungeon running is made the by far biggest point of MMOs there is just no reason to waste ressources on making the game world at all, in an online envoirnment. really a setup like Diablo 3 would be perfect - not to claim D3 is a MMO, but the setup seem to be what most would want, at all time can decide if you want to go solo or in groups and the group part always being done through a "dungeon finder"
other than my personal preferences...do actually agree that GW2 cater to people who want dungeon finders, it is going for the streamlined experience, should ask the developers some time about their reason for not adding an instance finder.
The problem with a dugneon finder is you don't know who you get. Dungeons are for those that want a CHALLENGE and will take intensive teamwork, it's not to be some sort of gear grind thing made easy which people have made the mistake of expecting this. Guilds will be crucial here or people you know and work well with. 5 or 6 randomly put together group WILL NOT WORK. Just like how all the QQ threads fail to realize, sure you can access the dungeon, sure you can get 5 or 6 people together, no you cannot just walk in and expect everything to be a cakewalk.
Dungeons are in no shape or form a required content and is purely cosmetic rewards so a dungeon finder is not needed. With no one guild restriction one can easily have a guild specifically for PvE Dungeon content. Dungeons being a challenge aspect of GW2 and allowing a dungeon finder will only cause people QQing of "ohhh it's TOO hard" BS crap. Now if your talking an LFM tool filer that you can post like how numerous MMOs have done that's one thing, but an automated system like Blizz will just end poorly and people will stop using it as the majority of the time dungeons end in failure.
Also the dungeon finder was only needed because of class/role restrictions as I only needed it if I needed a tank or a healer.
Chances are the if you have less than 2 hours of gameplay then you are not going to finish the dungeon period unless it's on farm mode. These are not quick adventures.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
counter-examples: D2 (compare it to D3), GW1, DAoC had the best communities in online gaming.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Bingo.
I remember being in tons of groups in EQ where it was like dead silence, or even verbal abuse from one the members that was a douche/elitist. So it's like you say...socialization if up to the people involved.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Yeah that happened to me too. Sometimes people say "noobs" or "u suck" before ragequitting.
same happens in games with or without a dungeon finder... again it's just a tool the people behind the keyboard doesn't change based on a tool. If you are social and encourage it others will be social.. In many cases I noticed al lI had to do is crack a few jokes or something and it would get everyone in the group talking it's not hard to inspire some communication within a group of random people.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But I seriously don't see how spamming LFG or LFM is socialization...it's more like enforced personals adds lol .
You misunderstood what I said... there's no LFG or LFM spamming involved in what I proposed.
You're right, it's not LFG spamming, but it's still a completely unnecessary manual "interrogation" process. Instead of LFG spamming, you just look at a list of people who are LFG and keep spamming whispers "hey saw you are LFG, want to join for Ascalon Catacombs?"
How is this all that much better than LFG spamming? I guess it's just a bit more organized? I still don't see what the point of not automating this is. Whispering "LFG or LFM" to people is no more socialization than spamming LFG is.
I updated my proposition with more details, look the post of mine just above the one of you I quoted here
Basically, it just adds a layer of choice of who (and with what classes) you want to group with. It's just a pressing "yes" or "no" choice, no big "work" is required. The fully automated DF tools just make you feel you aren't in control at all, if you have a list, you may actually see nice people you met in other dungeons waiting for a group too (and also not so nice people you rather avoid unless you have no choice).
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
yea i'm fine with that I think issue with swtor is it wasn't layed out in a way many people even noticed it was there at launch.. But that implementation is better than nothing at all imho. I don't mind fully automatted but can see the argument against it and if it's layed out in a decent and easy to use format the way you propose be more than adequate especially in a non trinity type game
The SW:TOR problem is a bit different actually I think... you had to get to your ship, and go to the dungeon or the fleet, all of which involved a couple of very long loading screens.
In GW2 there's no such problem. You can instantly teleport to the other side of the world with a minimal loading screen.
mostly agree, SW;TOR needed it because who wants to hang around fleet for hours trying to form groups, being able to join a 'queue' and get on with 'regular' gameplay was definitely a better option, some games need an automated dungeon finder tool, but that doesnt mean all games do, it really depends on the games own mechanics, social ones rather than combat mechanics that is, it does sound like movement around GW2 is far easier than it is in SW;TOR, which can only be described as a PITA imo.. thats not to say that i don't think a df tool wouldnt work in GW2 though, for the sake of saving time, which for some may be an issue, it might seem like the perfect choice. Particularly for those who arent in a guild.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
counter-examples: D2 (compare it to D3), GW1, DAoC had the best communities in online gaming.
Ah, so you haven't actually played anythng outside the Blizzard and ANet then? Whups, there's DAoC, sorry.
If you're making a poll decision solely on the basis of WoW's tool, you're selling the rest of the industry really short.
Same mistake? the op made.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.It's literally the cancer of MMOs.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Yeah that happened to me too. Sometimes people say "noobs" or "u suck" before ragequitting.
same happens in games with or without a dungeon finder... again it's just a tool the people behind the keyboard doesn't change based on a tool. If you are social and encourage it others will be social.. In many cases I noticed al lI had to do is crack a few jokes or something and it would get everyone in the group talking it's not hard to inspire some communication within a group of random people.
The difference is how often it happens. In WoW it happens in 90%+ of groups while in DAoC for example it happened maybe about 5% of the time.
Im pretty sure 90% of the community is unaware but there is a finder...Not a 100% dungeon finder that most of the easy mod MMO's present but a group finder..It's P(default) for party but allows you to do a refined search for players and you can flag yourself as looking. It was more detailed in Beta 3 then the first 3 were. Allowed you to flag for WvW or SPvP and DE but not Dungeons..Yet as someone who did do the dungeons I don't find any need for it as anyone who looking for the dungeons usually met outside of them (old school style) and just spammed /map LFG.
But I seriously don't see how spamming LFG or LFM is socialization...it's more like enforced personals adds lol .
You misunderstood what I said... there's no LFG or LFM spamming involved in what I proposed.
You're right, it's not LFG spamming, but it's still a completely unnecessary manual "interrogation" process. Instead of LFG spamming, you just look at a list of people who are LFG and keep spamming whispers "hey saw you are LFG, want to join for Ascalon Catacombs?"
How is this all that much better than LFG spamming? I guess it's just a bit more organized? I still don't see what the point of not automating this is. Whispering "LFG or LFM" to people is no more socialization than spamming LFG is.
I updated my proposition with more details, look the post of mine just above the one of you I quoted here
Basically, it just adds a layer of choice of who (and with what classes) you want to group with. It's just a pressing "yes" or "no" choice, no big "work" is required. The fully automated DF tools just make you feel you aren't in control at all, if you have a list, you may actually see nice people you met in other dungeons waiting for a group too (and also not so nice people you rather avoid unless you have no choice).
generally those people are on my ignore list anyway :P but I can't argue with some people may want a selection list aside from automatic grouping in some cases.. perhaps if the persons name is IpwnNUbs you may want to avoid them.. who knows heh
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But I seriously don't see how spamming LFG or LFM is socialization...it's more like enforced personals adds lol .
You misunderstood what I said... there's no LFG or LFM spamming involved in what I proposed.
You're right, it's not LFG spamming, but it's still a completely unnecessary manual "interrogation" process. Instead of LFG spamming, you just look at a list of people who are LFG and keep spamming whispers "hey saw you are LFG, want to join for Ascalon Catacombs?"
How is this all that much better than LFG spamming? I guess it's just a bit more organized? I still don't see what the point of not automating this is. Whispering "LFG or LFM" to people is no more socialization than spamming LFG is.
I updated my proposition with more details, look the post of mine just above the one of you I quoted here
Basically, it just adds a layer of choice of who (and with what classes) you want to group with. It's just a pressing "yes" or "no" choice, no big "work" is required. The fully automated DF tools just make you feel you aren't in control at all, if you have a list, you may actually see nice people you met in other dungeons waiting for a group too (and also not so nice people you rather avoid unless you have no choice).
I guess that would be okay. I would honestly be happy with any system that allowed me to get into a dungeon and having fun quickly .
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
counter-examples: D2 (compare it to D3), GW1, DAoC had the best communities in online gaming.
Ah, so you haven't actually played anythng outside the Blizzard and ANet then? Whups, there's DAoC, sorry.
If you're making a poll decision solely on the basis of WoW's tool, you're sellying the industry really short.
Who created DAoC? Anet or blizz? (didn't see your edit)
I also played WAR and tried many other MMOs that I didn't like (rift, RoM, AoC)
The difference is how often it happens. In WoW it happens in 90%+ of groups while in DAoC for example it happened maybe about 5% of the time.
that's your perspective sure many could say much higher % happened to them in DAOC and much lower % in wow.. honestly if wow had zero LFG tool or dungeon matcher the people would not change the only difference would be new players would never find a group for the lower level dungeons.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
counter-examples: D2 (compare it to D3), GW1, DAoC had the best communities in online gaming.
Ah, so you haven't actually played anythng outside the Blizzard and ANet then? Whups, there's DAoC, sorry.
If you're making a poll decision solely on the basis of WoW's tool, you're sellying the industry really short.
Who created DAoC? Anet or blizz?
I also played WAR and tried many other MMOs that I didn't like (rift, RoM, AoC)
Did you miss the edit correction? Nope, you quoted it, there's the apology right there.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
counter-examples: D2 (compare it to D3), GW1, DAoC had the best communities in online gaming.
Ah, so you haven't actually played anythng outside the Blizzard and ANet then? Whups, there's DAoC, sorry.
If you're making a poll decision solely on the basis of WoW's tool, you're sellying the industry really short.
Who created DAoC? Anet or blizz?
I also played WAR and tried many other MMOs that I didn't like (rift, RoM, AoC)
Did you miss the edit correction? Nope, you quoted it, there's the apology right there.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Yeah that happened to me too. Sometimes people say "noobs" or "u suck" before ragequitting.
same happens in games with or without a dungeon finder... again it's just a tool the people behind the keyboard doesn't change based on a tool. If you are social and encourage it others will be social.. In many cases I noticed al lI had to do is crack a few jokes or something and it would get everyone in the group talking it's not hard to inspire some communication within a group of random people.
Been there before and after the Dungeon Finder and the quality of groups did degenerate. In BC people actually talked and planned and teamwork was there... Dungeon Finder not so as it was just one giant speed run/zerg fest without a word spoken between the party. Now this of course could be the shift in dungeon difficulty but I do find people a lot less social in these groupds as people are like "okay, lets get this done so I can queue up again." Which imagine how well the dungeon finder would have worked if they kept the BC difficulty of dungeons/heroics.
Anyway--most of the gaming universe, it seems, completely managed to miss the best of the LFG (NOT LFD) tools.
This discussion is somewhat crippled by the OP, and other people, assuming that Blizzard's tool is the only/best example.
Thus: Whatever is "evil" about Blizzard's tool must share all of those traits with every other tool.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The difference is how often it happens. In WoW it happens in 90%+ of groups while in DAoC for example it happened maybe about 5% of the time.
that's your perspective sure many could say much higher % happened to them in DAOC and much lower % in wow.. honestly if wow had zero LFG tool or dungeon matcher the people would not change the only difference would be new players would never find a group for the lower level dungeons.
Actually WoW didn't start with a dungeon finder and it was totally different. After a while we all knew each other on the server and many of us became friends. We knew who was good and who sucked so our groups became better and better. It was like the server was one big guild. When they implemented it everyone became a stranger again.
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Yeah that happened to me too. Sometimes people say "noobs" or "u suck" before ragequitting.
same happens in games with or without a dungeon finder... again it's just a tool the people behind the keyboard doesn't change based on a tool. If you are social and encourage it others will be social.. In many cases I noticed al lI had to do is crack a few jokes or something and it would get everyone in the group talking it's not hard to inspire some communication within a group of random people.
Been there before and after the Dungeon Finder and the quality of groups did degenerate. In BC people actually talked and planned and teamwork was there... Dungeon Finder not so as it was just one giant speed run/zerg fest without a word spoken between the party. Now this of course could be the shift in dungeon difficulty but I do find people a lot less social in these groupds as people are like "okay, lets get this done so I can queue up again." Which imagine how well the dungeon finder would have worked if they kept the BC difficulty of dungeons/heroics.
it's also a problem with the core game design. When you design a game ot be a carrot on a stick dungeon grinder where people just want to farm dungeons over and over again for that epic drop obviously this is going to boil down to people wanting nothing more than just blowing through dungeons over and over.. Again nothing to do with a dungeon finder tool just basic core game design.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Actually WoW didn't start with a dungeon finder and it was totally different. After a while we all knew each other on the server and many of us became friends. We knew who was good and who sucked so our groups became better and better. It was like the server was one big guild. When they implemented it everyone became a stranger again.
again that's your perspective I would say it boils down to more to what I posted right above this. Once people ran dungeons a couple times it stops being about enjoying them and about getting through them as fast as possible to hopefully get the drop you wanted
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I find that dungeon finders make games anti-social (best examples: WoW and D3). You press a button and join a group with people you will never see again, Nobody actually talks and if there's a wipe people leave without saying a word. It turns people into robots.
guess what? PLENTY of groups I have played in games with no dungeon finder tool nobody said a word after the group was put together and plenty everyone talked in both cases. The tool is just that a tool the social aspect is up to the person.
Bingo.
I remember being in tons of groups in EQ where it was like dead silence, or even verbal abuse from one the members that was a douche/elitist. So it's like you say...socialization if up to the people involved.
Some good points, however this is somewhat of a complex issue.
While the dungeon finder is just a tool, it does remove some of the incentives to socialize from dungeon groups. What's most likely to happen is that story-mode groups will get impacted by this the most. Explorable mode dungeons will still require quite a bit of communication, because they are supposedly much harder, and require a lot more strategy and preparation. People may not even use the tool for explorables, because they will want to find skilled players over filling slots.
Basically, the dungeon finder tool (in it's current iteration), is a great tool for games that don't require much skill or prep, have rigid roles (tank,healer,dps), and thus it's very easy to categorize players. It would have to be seriously revamped (and made much more complex) to handle the needs of some of the dungeons in this game. Because, individual classes aren't as important as having the right combination of skills, and the right stats backing them up.
- Basically, a dungeon finder tool isn't going to encourage socialization, and is actually a tool to bypass it to some extent (as you're not using the chat to try and find groups). While this isn't bad from a convenience standpoint, it is a downside to be aware of.
Comments
Good. Now, an example or two from one of the other hundred+ MMOs?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yeah that happened to me too. Sometimes people say "noobs" or "u suck" before ragequitting.
my review of GW2
the less need for social interaction in MMOs, the less fun they get, even with the more and more frequent player who doesnt care for the social side of MMOs at all, but just want the game part....so voted no, even if I would more than likely use it, if there were a dungeon finder tool,,,,even though I never used it in EQ2, but then atleast when I played it worked horrible, and my guild werent that dead at the time, also people have always used the chat channels.
am just very much against the whole notion of making the point of MMOs, into instance grinding, it just make the whole perception of MMOs so very horrible boring, do like a good instance but want it to feel like an achievement, not only to clear but to reach as well, for the sake of making it feel like more of a part of the world, also its just great when you happen to stumble into a "special place" during a dungeon run, which wont happen either now, since everything have to be mapped out, or it get "frustrating" >< even can accept fog of war on that...the compromise for that issue.
so...dungeon finder blargh imo...it take away the "journey" how ever long or short it might be made by the designers, it is something I miss alot from MMOs, if dungeon running is made the by far biggest point of MMOs there is just no reason to waste ressources on making the game world at all, in an online envoirnment. really a setup like Diablo 3 would be perfect - not to claim D3 is a MMO, but the setup seem to be what most would want, at all time can decide if you want to go solo or in groups and the group part always being done through a "dungeon finder"
other than my personal preferences...do actually agree that GW2 cater to people who want dungeon finders, it is going for the streamlined experience, should ask the developers some time about their reason for not adding an instance finder.
The problem with a dugneon finder is you don't know who you get. Dungeons are for those that want a CHALLENGE and will take intensive teamwork, it's not to be some sort of gear grind thing made easy which people have made the mistake of expecting this. Guilds will be crucial here or people you know and work well with. 5 or 6 randomly put together group WILL NOT WORK. Just like how all the QQ threads fail to realize, sure you can access the dungeon, sure you can get 5 or 6 people together, no you cannot just walk in and expect everything to be a cakewalk.
Dungeons are in no shape or form a required content and is purely cosmetic rewards so a dungeon finder is not needed. With no one guild restriction one can easily have a guild specifically for PvE Dungeon content. Dungeons being a challenge aspect of GW2 and allowing a dungeon finder will only cause people QQing of "ohhh it's TOO hard" BS crap. Now if your talking an LFM tool filer that you can post like how numerous MMOs have done that's one thing, but an automated system like Blizz will just end poorly and people will stop using it as the majority of the time dungeons end in failure.
Also the dungeon finder was only needed because of class/role restrictions as I only needed it if I needed a tank or a healer.
Chances are the if you have less than 2 hours of gameplay then you are not going to finish the dungeon period unless it's on farm mode. These are not quick adventures.
counter-examples: D2 (compare it to D3), GW1, DAoC had the best communities in online gaming.
my review of GW2
Bingo.
I remember being in tons of groups in EQ where it was like dead silence, or even verbal abuse from one the members that was a douche/elitist. So it's like you say...socialization if up to the people involved.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
same happens in games with or without a dungeon finder... again it's just a tool the people behind the keyboard doesn't change based on a tool. If you are social and encourage it others will be social.. In many cases I noticed al lI had to do is crack a few jokes or something and it would get everyone in the group talking it's not hard to inspire some communication within a group of random people.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I updated my proposition with more details, look the post of mine just above the one of you I quoted here
Basically, it just adds a layer of choice of who (and with what classes) you want to group with. It's just a pressing "yes" or "no" choice, no big "work" is required. The fully automated DF tools just make you feel you aren't in control at all, if you have a list, you may actually see nice people you met in other dungeons waiting for a group too (and also not so nice people you rather avoid unless you have no choice).
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
mostly agree, SW;TOR needed it because who wants to hang around fleet for hours trying to form groups, being able to join a 'queue' and get on with 'regular' gameplay was definitely a better option, some games need an automated dungeon finder tool, but that doesnt mean all games do, it really depends on the games own mechanics, social ones rather than combat mechanics that is, it does sound like movement around GW2 is far easier than it is in SW;TOR, which can only be described as a PITA imo.. thats not to say that i don't think a df tool wouldnt work in GW2 though, for the sake of saving time, which for some may be an issue, it might seem like the perfect choice. Particularly for those who arent in a guild.
Ah, so you haven't actually played anythng outside the Blizzard and ANet then? Whups, there's DAoC, sorry.
If you're making a poll decision solely on the basis of WoW's tool, you're selling the rest of the industry really short.
Same mistake? the op made.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
^ this
The difference is how often it happens. In WoW it happens in 90%+ of groups while in DAoC for example it happened maybe about 5% of the time.
my review of GW2
Im pretty sure 90% of the community is unaware but there is a finder...Not a 100% dungeon finder that most of the easy mod MMO's present but a group finder..It's P(default) for party but allows you to do a refined search for players and you can flag yourself as looking. It was more detailed in Beta 3 then the first 3 were. Allowed you to flag for WvW or SPvP and DE but not Dungeons..Yet as someone who did do the dungeons I don't find any need for it as anyone who looking for the dungeons usually met outside of them (old school style) and just spammed /map LFG.
generally those people are on my ignore list anyway :P but I can't argue with some people may want a selection list aside from automatic grouping in some cases.. perhaps if the persons name is IpwnNUbs you may want to avoid them.. who knows heh
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I guess that would be okay. I would honestly be happy with any system that allowed me to get into a dungeon and having fun quickly
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Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Who created DAoC? Anet or blizz?
(didn't see your edit)
I also played WAR and tried many other MMOs that I didn't like (rift, RoM, AoC)
my review of GW2
that's your perspective sure many could say much higher % happened to them in DAOC and much lower % in wow.. honestly if wow had zero LFG tool or dungeon matcher the people would not change the only difference would be new players would never find a group for the lower level dungeons.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Did you miss the edit correction? Nope, you quoted it, there's the apology right there.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I didn't see it
my review of GW2
Been there before and after the Dungeon Finder and the quality of groups did degenerate. In BC people actually talked and planned and teamwork was there... Dungeon Finder not so as it was just one giant speed run/zerg fest without a word spoken between the party. Now this of course could be the shift in dungeon difficulty but I do find people a lot less social in these groupds as people are like "okay, lets get this done so I can queue up again." Which imagine how well the dungeon finder would have worked if they kept the BC difficulty of dungeons/heroics.
Anyway--most of the gaming universe, it seems, completely managed to miss the best of the LFG (NOT LFD) tools.
This discussion is somewhat crippled by the OP, and other people, assuming that Blizzard's tool is the only/best example.
Thus: Whatever is "evil" about Blizzard's tool must share all of those traits with every other tool.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Actually WoW didn't start with a dungeon finder and it was totally different. After a while we all knew each other on the server and many of us became friends. We knew who was good and who sucked so our groups became better and better. It was like the server was one big guild. When they implemented it everyone became a stranger again.
my review of GW2
it's also a problem with the core game design. When you design a game ot be a carrot on a stick dungeon grinder where people just want to farm dungeons over and over again for that epic drop obviously this is going to boil down to people wanting nothing more than just blowing through dungeons over and over.. Again nothing to do with a dungeon finder tool just basic core game design.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
again that's your perspective I would say it boils down to more to what I posted right above this. Once people ran dungeons a couple times it stops being about enjoying them and about getting through them as fast as possible to hopefully get the drop you wanted
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Some good points, however this is somewhat of a complex issue.
While the dungeon finder is just a tool, it does remove some of the incentives to socialize from dungeon groups. What's most likely to happen is that story-mode groups will get impacted by this the most. Explorable mode dungeons will still require quite a bit of communication, because they are supposedly much harder, and require a lot more strategy and preparation. People may not even use the tool for explorables, because they will want to find skilled players over filling slots.
Basically, the dungeon finder tool (in it's current iteration), is a great tool for games that don't require much skill or prep, have rigid roles (tank,healer,dps), and thus it's very easy to categorize players. It would have to be seriously revamped (and made much more complex) to handle the needs of some of the dungeons in this game. Because, individual classes aren't as important as having the right combination of skills, and the right stats backing them up.
- Basically, a dungeon finder tool isn't going to encourage socialization, and is actually a tool to bypass it to some extent (as you're not using the chat to try and find groups). While this isn't bad from a convenience standpoint, it is a downside to be aware of.