People like him dont care that it takes people out of the world and breaks gameplay. All he cares about are the shinny things he gets at the end of his random dungeon runs.
Nah .. i care about shinnies *and* interesting combat. Taking out of the world ... that is fine. Apparently that is fine with many MMO players since LFD/LFR are so popular.
No its not ok with MMO players. Its fine for your console jockeys though.
You haven't read the forums on TOR where players were asking for LFD/LFR?
You don't see all the WOW players lining up for LFD in Orgrimmar?
Walking from point A to point B is boring, whether i am doing it for 1 hour or 10 hours.
Travel for AN HOUR? I won't play a game that requires me to do it for 15 min.
How about THIS player choice: if you like to walk, walk, if not ... go through this portal and you are there instantly. Now THAT is player's choice.
What traveling gives you is the feeling that the world is big and alive. If everything is around the next corner its just gonna look like your own neighborhood... and that's the whole game. Of course i am not saying that everyone should like it this way. but i totally understand the people that do. IMO there is also something relaxing about traveling about and looking at new places, especially if the world is interesting and well made. Fight for some time, then travel for some time. Some times you have to make big trips. To me big trips gives an epic feeling. Again different tastes.
Bro dont even bother. Your talking to someone who in hindsight, doesent even want to play MMOs. Just a form of mmo with all the features of Black Ops and D3. Neather one is a MMO. Its pointless.
"a form of MMO with all the features of D3 and Black Ops" .. yeah .. those are the modern MMOs.
In fact, i think i will go queue up a mission in DCUO now. Wait ... DCUO is not a MMO anymore?
That is BS. There is no depth in walking. Sure, you can make walking gameplay .. very BORING gameplay. Count me out.
Selfish? So what .. we are talking about entertainment here, not charity. I do rage quit in dungeon groups which i do not like. And i do have guild friends, and battle net friends ... but are they like rl friends ... of course not. I do not apologize for that. Games are entertainment. I do whatever ways i have fun. And if devs want my money, implement my preference. Very simple.
And here you have it folks. The reason the genre is in the toilet.
What, your dream MMO requires walking and walking for hours?
No one is stopping you from quitting genre you do not like. Some just can't deal with progress and live in the past.
ROFL your just talking out your ass now. Never once did i say i wanna walk for HOURS. Did you gain ventriloquy superpowers to? You love to put words into other peoples mouths.
What you call progress i call regression.
You sounds like one who is stuck in the 90s. MMOs in 2012 is not the same anymore.
He never said he wanted to walk for hours. If you're going to quote someone, AT LEAST read what they have to say.
"a form of MMO with all the features of D3 and Black Ops" .. yeah .. those are the modern MMOs.
In fact, i think i will go queue up a mission in DCUO now. Wait ... DCUO is not a MMO anymore?
This genre is getting close to buckling under it's own sheer mass of stagnation. We have way too many disposable titles that bring less and less to the table. Excessive game jumping is not healthy for the industry, it spreads the butter too thin.
The King's (WOW) hull has been breached and has begun it's inevitable but slow descent. The largest budget mmorpg (SWTOR) ever created is collapsing at an alarming rate and has already announced a painfully premature squeezing of the sponge (the dreaded "F2P" switcheroo). How many investors do you think are lining up to throw big sums of moula at future projects in this industry?
All's not well in Wonderland, Mr. Seldon. In the not so distant future, something tells me you're not going to be singing the same happy tune that you do here to death.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"a form of MMO with all the features of D3 and Black Ops" .. yeah .. those are the modern MMOs.
In fact, i think i will go queue up a mission in DCUO now. Wait ... DCUO is not a MMO anymore?
This genre is getting close to buckling under it's own sheer mass of stagnation. We have way too many disposable titles that bring less and less to the table. Excessive game jumping is not healthy for the industry, it spreads the butter too thin.
The King's (WOW) hull has been breached and has begun it's inevitable but slow descent. The largest budget mmorpg (SWTOR) ever created is collapsing at an alarming rate and has already announced a painfully premature squeezing of the sponge (the dreaded "F2P" switcheroo). How many investors do you think are lining up to throw big sums of moula at future projects in this industry?
All's not well in Wonderland, Mr. Seldon. In the not so distant future, something tells me you're not going to be singing the same happy tune that you do here to death.
May be not. However, who says i only play MMOs? There are plenty of good games out there ...
Just this year, i am playing D3 waiting for ...
- borderlands 2
- MOP
- Torchlight 2
and in the future, Marvel Heroes, the inevitable D3 expansion, SC2 Heart of the Swarm .... in fact, my problem is probably find time to play the games i like.
I have a feeling i would not be short of entertainment any time soon (not to mention, i read, watch movies, and a few other things). Unlike others here, if (and when) MMO does not go the way i like, i would simply quit and do something else. It is not like it is my life ... we are only talking about GAMES.
100% combat oriented online games. Cash shops come standard. Purely developer driven content. Esport is the name of the game for pvp. Socialization has become automatized.
If you were to tell me ten years ago that this is what MMORPGS would be like, I would have never even bothered to get involved.
MMO versions of old console games from a decade ago. Thats what we have right now. The irony is that console games today are actually more open and diverse than these so called mmorpgs.
Its a shame. I have faith in indie devs, as always. But the AAA mmo devs have really led the genre astray as of late. I wonder if it will ever get back on track.
If I knew then what I knew now, I never would have given my FFXI character away, and I would have played up to abyssea expansion.
I am just hoping AA can bring some MMORPG elements back to this online rpg dominated genre.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
100% combat oriented online games. Cash shops come standard. Purely developer driven content. Esport is the name of the game for pvp. Socialization has become automatized.
If you were to tell me ten years ago that this is what MMORPGS would be like, I would have never even bothered to get involved.
MMO versions of old console games from a decade ago. Thats what we have right now. The irony is that console games today are actually more open and diverse than these so called mmorpgs.
Its a shame. I have faith in indie devs, as always. But the AAA mmo devs have really led the genre astray as of late. I wonder if it will ever get back on track.
It is never too late to quit. In fact, it would be highly illogical to stay if you do not like the current MMO offerings.
Whenever MMO is not being made the way i like it, i am quitting. It is not like there is a lack of games, or other forms of entertainment.
This genre is getting close to buckling under it's own sheer mass of stagnation. We have way too many disposable titles that bring less and less to the table. Excessive game jumping is not healthy for the industry, it spreads the butter too thin.
The King's (WOW) hull has been breached and has begun it's inevitable but slow descent. The largest budget mmorpg (SWTOR) ever created is collapsing at an alarming rate and has already announced a painfully premature squeezing of the sponge (the dreaded "F2P" switcheroo). How many investors do you think are lining up to throw big sums of moula at future projects in this industry?
All's not well in Wonderland, Mr. Seldon. In the not so distant future, something tells me you're not going to be singing the same happy tune that you do here to death.
May be not. However, who says i only play MMOs? There are plenty of good games out there ...
Just this year, i am playing D3 waiting for ...
- borderlands 2
- MOP
- Torchlight 2
and in the future, Marvel Heroes, the inevitable D3 expansion, SC2 Heart of the Swarm .... in fact, my problem is probably find time to play the games i like.
I have a feeling i would not be short of entertainment any time soon (not to mention, i read, watch movies, and a few other things). Unlike others here, if (and when) MMO does not go the way i like, i would simply quit and do something else. It is not like it is my life ... we are only talking about GAMES.
Whether it be game jumping, or apparently genre jumping as well, you seem to be ready at a moment's notice to hop off like frog at the first sign of trouble. This does not portray you as anything remotely close to a fan of anything. Fans are a necessary component to the success of any form of entertainment.
BTW I have a love of many different gaming genres, but I am nowhere near as ready as you to give up on, what is to me, the most potentially incredible of them all.
At the very least, try having some sort of standard above the need to have cheap thrill after cheap thrill constantly jammed down your throat. We have at our fingertips a genre that could be so much more.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.
It's annoying and frustrating, but the demand is there, and will be sated eventually. My hopes rest with archeage. I just hope I don't have kids by then so they get to have all the fun.
In other news, nariusseldon's opinions make me sick in my mouth.
Originally posted by quasi_dead Genre isn't dead. It's dormant. It's annoying and frustrating, but the demand is there, and will be sated eventually. My hopes rest with archeage. I just hope I don't have kids by then so they get to have all the fun. In other news, nariusseldon's opinions make me sick in my mouth.
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.
Non combat classes. It really depends on the game. Take a game with world pvp/pvp servers. Something built as a pure support class is going to have a hard time in that game. But, you can't just take those support classes, homogenize their offense with dps classes, and call it good like some games have. Sadly, I like to play support classes. And, as much as I love them, It's easy to see why they are problematic for developers.
Virtual worlds. In the last few mmorpgs that I have played, that is a common missing element. The community aspect is just flat out not there. Classes are made to be self sufficient for anything but raiding. There is no going to people to get things made or done for crafting anymore. Everything is just premade and sold on an auction house. You never remember who made things or has that rare recipe anymore. The design is good and bad, but it definitely helps lose the community aspect of it. Buffing others has also been reduced to group/raid buffs only that are truly generic in nature. Group/raid wide smallnumber% buffs that are shared by multiple classes and don't stack are fair, but very boring. LFG/LFR with short cross server queues make for quick setups, but do you remember people from the group? Do you remember how they played? Do you care about if they get the gear they need or do you just want it all for profit even if you won't wear it. Convenience is nice, but is it worth what we lose to it?
I've played mmorpgs where end game loot is looted and where end game loot is 100% player made. I honestly can't say I have a preference. I can say that in the games I've played of late, crafting has felt pretty bad. Some feel horribly shallow(TSW) and others feel pointless except for very select professions or a very small amount of items(SWTOR).
I think one of the biggest issues I have with mmorpgs of late is how they try to achieve balance. Developers are on this kick of trying to remove the number of variables or the amount of variance to try to make balancing easier. It needs to stop. It's flat out boring. And sadly, the games aren't really any closer to being remotely balanced. Try a new approach.
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.
Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.
Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something? If so, I think you just won.
I just think he completely missed the point of time investment style vs the jump in and out style. As always, it depends on what you want from a particular game. Which, is exactly what Foomerang was eluding too.
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.
Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?
I want a MMO that plays like playdoh and firecrackers personally.
Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.
I 100% agree with you that the crafting in these games are complete garbage. The last few games to have any worth while crafting were VG DAoC and Istaria ( Horizons )
You may want to look too a game like A Tale in the Desert for insperation for non combat clases. Hell doesent even FF14 have non bombat classes. I would LOVE to play one.
It's annoying and frustrating, but the demand is there, and will be sated eventually. My hopes rest with archeage. I just hope I don't have kids by then so they get to have all the fun.
In other news, nariusseldon's opinions make me sick in my mouth.
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.
Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?
He started it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.
Non combat classes. It really depends on the game. Take a game with world pvp/pvp servers. Something built as a pure support class is going to have a hard time in that game. But, you can't just take those support classes, homogenize their offense with dps classes, and call it good like some games have. Sadly, I like to play support classes. And, as much as I love them, It's easy to see why they are problematic for developers.
Virtual worlds. In the last few mmorpgs that I have played, that is a common missing element. The community aspect is just flat out not there. Classes are made to be self sufficient for anything but raiding. There is no going to people to get things made or done for crafting anymore. Everything is just premade and sold on an auction house. You never remember who made things or has that rare recipe anymore. The design is good and bad, but it definitely helps lose the community aspect of it. Buffing others has also been reduced to group/raid buffs only that are truly generic in nature. Group/raid wide smallnumber% buffs that are shared by multiple classes and don't stack are fair, but very boring. LFG/LFR with short cross server queues make for quick setups, but do you remember people from the group? Do you remember how they played? Do you care about if they get the gear they need or do you just want it all for profit even if you won't wear it. Convenience is nice, but is it worth what we lose to it?
I've played mmorpgs where end game loot is looted and where end game loot is 100% player made. I honestly can't say I have a preference. I can say that in the games I've played of late, crafting has felt pretty bad. Some feel horribly shallow(TSW) and others feel pointless except for very select professions or a very small amount of items(SWTOR).
I think one of the biggest issues I have with mmorpgs of late is how they try to achieve balance. Developers are on this kick of trying to remove the number of variables or the amount of variance to try to make balancing easier. It needs to stop. It's flat out boring. And sadly, the games aren't really any closer to being remotely balanced. Try a new approach.
For the most part this. Crafting for me has been a HUGE letdown in mmos of today's. last one to do it right was VG. Sure crafting was tough and complicated but that made the rewards from it ( plats, a sense of accomplishment and notoriety) worth the hard work that was put into it.
There was a CRAFTING COMMUNITY. Those who built homes knew they needed other mats from other crafters to get houses built. Same for boat builders. They needed masts, sails and riggings to get it done and they would have to find an tailor to get them made. And the community knew who made what.
If Frenton wasn't on to make t3 thatches then Byron was on and he too could make them. You had to keep a list on your desk of people that could make cretin things. "Oh Spike isent on to make your high end armor piece? you should try Jaridus" ( can't remember spelling of his name). I want these days back. The days where everyone CANT do everything themselves.
And make it hard so people can't make 5 alts with maxed out professions. Im just tired of all this gimmie now, i don't have time to waist playing mmos to get what i want so just let me buy it or make it crazy easy type of games we have today.
Comments
Like i said. Console Jockeys
No its not. Now your starting to get it.
He never said he wanted to walk for hours. If you're going to quote someone, AT LEAST read what they have to say.
This genre is getting close to buckling under it's own sheer mass of stagnation. We have way too many disposable titles that bring less and less to the table. Excessive game jumping is not healthy for the industry, it spreads the butter too thin.
The King's (WOW) hull has been breached and has begun it's inevitable but slow descent. The largest budget mmorpg (SWTOR) ever created is collapsing at an alarming rate and has already announced a painfully premature squeezing of the sponge (the dreaded "F2P" switcheroo). How many investors do you think are lining up to throw big sums of moula at future projects in this industry?
All's not well in Wonderland, Mr. Seldon. In the not so distant future, something tells me you're not going to be singing the same happy tune that you do here to death.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
LOL ... now you want to change the name of the genre?
To be honest .. i play fun .. good .. GAMES. i really care less how they should be defined. MMO, ARPG, even shooters.
May be not. However, who says i only play MMOs? There are plenty of good games out there ...
Just this year, i am playing D3 waiting for ...
- borderlands 2
- MOP
- Torchlight 2
and in the future, Marvel Heroes, the inevitable D3 expansion, SC2 Heart of the Swarm .... in fact, my problem is probably find time to play the games i like.
I have a feeling i would not be short of entertainment any time soon (not to mention, i read, watch movies, and a few other things). Unlike others here, if (and when) MMO does not go the way i like, i would simply quit and do something else. It is not like it is my life ... we are only talking about GAMES.
If I knew then what I knew now, I never would have given my FFXI character away, and I would have played up to abyssea expansion.
I am just hoping AA can bring some MMORPG elements back to this online rpg dominated genre.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
It is never too late to quit. In fact, it would be highly illogical to stay if you do not like the current MMO offerings.
Whenever MMO is not being made the way i like it, i am quitting. It is not like there is a lack of games, or other forms of entertainment.
Sure, but "normal" obviously shouldn't be an almost complete lack of interaction.
You certainly don't get anything interesting, curious, wonderous, or (for me) any sense of mastery by having a lack of interaction.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Whether it be game jumping, or apparently genre jumping as well, you seem to be ready at a moment's notice to hop off like frog at the first sign of trouble. This does not portray you as anything remotely close to a fan of anything. Fans are a necessary component to the success of any form of entertainment.
BTW I have a love of many different gaming genres, but I am nowhere near as ready as you to give up on, what is to me, the most potentially incredible of them all.
At the very least, try having some sort of standard above the need to have cheap thrill after cheap thrill constantly jammed down your throat. We have at our fingertips a genre that could be so much more.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Lets move on to non combat classes and how they've been swept under the rug. Or do you still want to talk about travel times. Would you agree that a virtual world needs more to do than combat and mini games? The crafting is pathetic in most and is usually obsolete about three hours into launch day. Do you think this is fine too? I dont.
Genre isn't dead. It's dormant.
It's annoying and frustrating, but the demand is there, and will be sated eventually. My hopes rest with archeage. I just hope I don't have kids by then so they get to have all the fun.
In other news, nariusseldon's opinions make me sick in my mouth.
I like to play games like nariusseldon, just not particularly in my mmorpgs. The type of game he is describing is best enjoyed at an arcade with a handful of quarters. Unfortunately thats also what a AAA mmo is these days.
Non combat classes. It really depends on the game. Take a game with world pvp/pvp servers. Something built as a pure support class is going to have a hard time in that game. But, you can't just take those support classes, homogenize their offense with dps classes, and call it good like some games have. Sadly, I like to play support classes. And, as much as I love them, It's easy to see why they are problematic for developers.
Virtual worlds. In the last few mmorpgs that I have played, that is a common missing element. The community aspect is just flat out not there. Classes are made to be self sufficient for anything but raiding. There is no going to people to get things made or done for crafting anymore. Everything is just premade and sold on an auction house. You never remember who made things or has that rare recipe anymore. The design is good and bad, but it definitely helps lose the community aspect of it. Buffing others has also been reduced to group/raid buffs only that are truly generic in nature. Group/raid wide smallnumber% buffs that are shared by multiple classes and don't stack are fair, but very boring. LFG/LFR with short cross server queues make for quick setups, but do you remember people from the group? Do you remember how they played? Do you care about if they get the gear they need or do you just want it all for profit even if you won't wear it. Convenience is nice, but is it worth what we lose to it?
I've played mmorpgs where end game loot is looted and where end game loot is 100% player made. I honestly can't say I have a preference. I can say that in the games I've played of late, crafting has felt pretty bad. Some feel horribly shallow(TSW) and others feel pointless except for very select professions or a very small amount of items(SWTOR).
I think one of the biggest issues I have with mmorpgs of late is how they try to achieve balance. Developers are on this kick of trying to remove the number of variables or the amount of variance to try to make balancing easier. It needs to stop. It's flat out boring. And sadly, the games aren't really any closer to being remotely balanced. Try a new approach.
If you really want to go there, what you describe is not actually playing a game but playing like playing with a doll house.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Is this a Top Trumps game of shockingly bad analogies or something?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I just think he completely missed the point of time investment style vs the jump in and out style. As always, it depends on what you want from a particular game. Which, is exactly what Foomerang was eluding too.
I want a MMO that plays like playdoh and firecrackers personally.
a yo ho ho
I 100% agree with you that the crafting in these games are complete garbage. The last few games to have any worth while crafting were VG DAoC and Istaria ( Horizons )
You may want to look too a game like A Tale in the Desert for insperation for non combat clases. Hell doesent even FF14 have non bombat classes. I would LOVE to play one.
Right there with ya pal.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Oh no, if its dead to him its dead to everyone.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
He started it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
For the most part this. Crafting for me has been a HUGE letdown in mmos of today's. last one to do it right was VG. Sure crafting was tough and complicated but that made the rewards from it ( plats, a sense of accomplishment and notoriety) worth the hard work that was put into it.
There was a CRAFTING COMMUNITY. Those who built homes knew they needed other mats from other crafters to get houses built. Same for boat builders. They needed masts, sails and riggings to get it done and they would have to find an tailor to get them made. And the community knew who made what.
If Frenton wasn't on to make t3 thatches then Byron was on and he too could make them. You had to keep a list on your desk of people that could make cretin things. "Oh Spike isent on to make your high end armor piece? you should try Jaridus" ( can't remember spelling of his name). I want these days back. The days where everyone CANT do everything themselves.
And make it hard so people can't make 5 alts with maxed out professions. Im just tired of all this gimmie now, i don't have time to waist playing mmos to get what i want so just let me buy it or make it crazy easy type of games we have today.