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Mourning scam, a well compiled case

happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

I'm going to post this here in full in case they decide to delete it on their own forums.  I did not write a shred of this, to clear any confusion.

The author is quoting others often, other then editing out the intro I posted it all as he had it.

Also the word scam is cencored on the mourning forum so if you see a **** its most likely scam.

http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=16978


After one of my clan members pre-ordered the game, it triggered a thought in his mind of how a spurios vaporware game could be "developed" and sold in advance to get people's credit card details.

The idea was developed on our boards, i present to you a summary of that discussion:



quote:


I just had a great idea for a ****

Create a false MMO claiming to be the MMO's player's wet dream. Get someone to make some 3D renders, fake some screenshots etc. Put up a website, forums, etc. Put up beta-applications, followed by some fake accounts saying that they've been accepted in the typical "I'm not allowed to say anything way *hint hint*" way.

Leave it a few months, adding some more screenshots even faked movies here and there and obviously the obligatory progress news reports.

Then you stick up a pre-order option on the website and let the cash roll in. Then "slip" a bit. Maybe put up some fake magazine's review results (though this could give the game away). When the cash has stopped flowing in announce one final slip to be able to deliver a polished product, gather up all the money, leave the website going and dissappear.

You'd have at least a couple of months to vanish before anyone even started looking (and let's not forget about the option of selling the credit card numbers to certain members of the darker side of society).

Almost perfect, no?





It seemed far fetched and Mourning just seemed to good a concept:


quote:


This game does indeed sound too good too be true, and I prefer to think of it as a **** - and nurture a tiny hope that my cynicism will be put to shame. A push-back of 4 months really isn't a problem for me personally, as there is WoW to be enjoyed first - and there's even City of Heroes to go back to when the PvP expansion comes out. So it suits me just fine that Mourning most likely won't be out for a while. They should issue a comment on the release date, though.

If Mourning is for real... then getting it would be akin to getting married. It would sorta prevent me from having short-lived flings with varius moderately interesting games, as I do now. Mourning sounds like it would have real long-term appeal.

So - if Mourning is for real, I will marry the game. But - I am still enjoying my status as a gaming "bachelor", and I have some more wild oats to sow before settling down with Mourning.

Of course, there is also Darkfall somewhere on the horizon... which I, in my garbled metaphors, refer to as my childhood sweetheart and future second wife
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Comments

  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    The idea was developed, and a few guild mates started doign some background research on Mourning and its developers and publishers.

    quote:


    Maybe I shhoulda started a new treat about this, but whatever - what are the chances of this being a fake game, like "Dawn" you know. Not really to slag the game, which I hope will come out soon, bit rather to list some "anomalies" concerning the game - perhaps in a humorous way. It is all done somewhat light-heared, and not to hassle those who have faith in the game and have preorderes.

    Bah, who am I kidding... of coure it is! Haha - Corb, are you really buying this game - come on

    OK now

    * Notice the striking similarity betwenn the original MOG hoax: "Dawn" and this game "Mourning. I mean, come on... "Dawn" and "Morning"?

    * the game only has a "virtual" publisher. To quote the faq:
    quote:


    Limitless Horizons Entertainment, LLC is the producer and world wide license holder of Mourning.


    Problem is, Limitless Horizons Entertainment don't have a web site, nor any other games ever prublished, and the company's marketing manager has an @realmsofkrel.com e-mail... realmsofkrel.com is inded the adress to the Mourning web site.
    quote:


    Marketing Manager
    Limitless Horizons Entertainment, LLC
    athos@realmsofkrel.com


    Fishy...

    * Romania? Aww man, I don't know...
    The developers are rumenian. They are headquartered in Buchuresti, which I am certian is a lovely city - never been there.

    Romania, however, has gained something of a reputation as a cyber-****ming capitol these few last years. Read this article, form 2003:
    quote:


    Internet crime could cost more than $200bn, say some experts. Most of it originates in the US but other like nations such as Romania are becoming hotbeds for online ****ming, as technology correspondent Clark Boyd reports from Bucharest.


    Read the whole thing at Computer Crime Research Center

    Does this mean that there are no honest people in Romania, or that all software companies based in Buchuresti are ****mers? Of course not. Nonono.

    But it does make me think twice before giving out my credit card to a some Romenian cyber-type dudes.

    * No beta reports. I have never heard anything from anyone actually in the beta. Nobody I know have been invited to the beta. For all I know, there IS no beta. And release is only a few weeks off.

    All in all - all taken together, it almost seems more likely that this is an elaborate hoax or a **** than a real game... but the odd chance that is is for real certainly warrants further investigation. But the last point remains:

    * When something seems too good to be true - it usually isn't true. And Mourning certainly seems too good to be true


  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260
    Of course some people presented counter arguments
    quote:


    Mourning has a contract with a huge german online games hoster. (They run Anarchy Online, D4O, Puzzle Pirates and some other stuff)
    I seriously doubt that they will fail to see a ****.

    They simply suck in keeping people updated and are well behind schedule. Thats what i think the reason is.


    Some were'n't convinced:
    quote:


    Okay. Did some digging of my own;

    The pre-orders will be billed by a company called "Accentra, Inc." (www.accentrainc.com).

    Here's what I have on them;

    listed on the Register of Known Spam Operators (ROKSO) - though might be a different Accentra, Inc? (Dunno, I have a bad feeling)

    Administrative contact for the website www.accentrainc.com has a @yahoo.com email address.

    Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC are not the only people involved. Appearantly another TWO "companies" Quad Software and Newrosoft Research and Development are as well.

    As with Limitless Horizons, none have a website and aren't mentioned anywhere other than various game sites.

    Also checking out some company registrar websites for Romania turned up nothing on all three.

    All 'reviews' on any game site so far has all been interview style. Nobody has seen anything. You'd think they'd want Game Reviewers to have a look and sing it's praises in the (non-exsistant?) beta.

    Let's see if we can't dig a bit deeper. If this is a **** we could expose it

    I'm going to play it safe and cancel my credit card and get a new one. Rather safe than very sorry.




    So Mourning community, please give me the information/links to go back to my community and prove their fears unfounded, lest these rumours spread through the net. We need to quash them.
  • HarelinHarelin Member UncommonPosts: 409

    ouch...

    happydan, I think most people are beyond the scam claims. That's really old news, all things considered. The game's PR has serious problems, but not to the degree of being a scam... I have my beef with the game's developers, which I've detailed elsewhere... but it's my personal opinion that perpetuating these scam claims simply makes the Mourning critics look petty.

  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    I wanted to highlight this section for all the preordering folk.

    The pre-orders will be billed by a company called "Accentra, Inc." (www.accentrainc.com).

    Here's what I have on them;

    listed on the Register of Known Spam Operators (ROKSO) - though might be a different Accentra, Inc? (Dunno, I have a bad feeling)

    Administrative contact for the website www.accentrainc.com has a @yahoo.com email address.

    This is my main focus, the saftey of those preordering. I'm SUGGESTING the company this is going through might not be legit, and IF that were the case youre giving credit card numbers to them.

  • ShrubberShrubber Member Posts: 219

    Very nice put together case::::20::

  • ShrubberShrubber Member Posts: 219

    That doesnt prove crap. Its a small company in a third world country, thats all that article said. More proof that if it really is a game, its going to be crap.

  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    I thank you for posting that.  It's nice to see evidence one way or the other rather then... "youre dumb shut up."

    I can't pretend to get a lot of meaning out of it, im no accountant, but it filled in a gap.

    BUT

    You are forced to take the posters word for everything... There is not one single link in that whole thing.  Now granted they gave a decent reason for it...  But still, Unlike the post I have given there is no outside evidence supporting the post.

    It appears legit to me but, it it WAS a scam... that's exactly what theyd do, post company info with no outside verfication.

  • HarelinHarelin Member UncommonPosts: 409

    No, it doesn't prove crap... but there's all their information and just about all the information anyone is going to get.

    It does prove they are a very small company and their performance is directly in relation to that. No surprise there.

    I was just as suspicious of the scam claims when they surfaced... but really, I think they've been sufficiently assuaged. Look at all the screenshots released by the beta players. 40, 50+ screenshots...

    I highly doubt the game will live up to the hype, but I believe the scam claims are just as unfounded if not more so than the thread above that 'doesn't prove crap' - it's a small development company with piss poor social skills from Romania... doesn't mean it's a scam. Pursuant to your criteria, any company that fails to put out information quickly enough, is from a third world country, and sucks at what it does.. could be a scam.

    Meh.

  • KiamdeKiamde Member CommonPosts: 5,820

    This is an interesting idea. I have never even thought about this. Say you are going to build the mmorpg of the future, get a 3D artist to make some renders, build a webpage, and egg people on to a game that will never be real, yet still has a fanbase. How interesting. I would actually love to do this just for the psycological tests you could do. Seeing how long people can follow a nonexistent game would be so interesting.

    "Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"

    "When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman

  • GrunchGrunch Member Posts: 493
    Whats funny Kiamde is you would get fanbios that will defend your fake game to the death saying they know people that know people that know people that are in beta. lololol image

    "I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."

  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    I agree completely, and that is why I'm so interested in mouring...  Because no matter how it turns out I think it will set a precedent for MMORPGS.  We have been coddled by the big names and so we trust them.  We normally never consider a scam, nor worry about our credit card information when we make purchases.

    If this thing sours as I suspect it will and hope it wont...  It's going to be the most well documented consumer fraud example, as we've all these posts and forums leading around it.

    People assume they are safe on this preorder issue but they really aren't.  you GAVE someone your credit card information without any real evidence (that I've seen) that a legitimate company exists.  It's also an overseas company for most of us this adds a layer of complicated legally and the bottom line is everyone who preorders chooses to do so... so you cant call the credit card company and get it that way.  All they have to do is file chapter 11 and they cant be sued from that day forth.  they've set a precident of slow information they could easily get a few months head start.

    The middle man company dealing directly with the cash has a very similar spelling to a company placed on the scam watch list.  The simple fact of this whole matter is that every company involved (save for the german one) has no documentation on the sites that list companies like this...  The only records that can be found are on game related sites.  Admins for these companies with yahoo email addresses for publishers and the publisher SHARES the site with the developer.

    But remember when everyone was so sure that there were nukes in IRAQ? Everyone was wrong on that score no matter how good the circumstantial evidence was....  Although I have clearly chosen a side in all of this, I know that all of my evidence is circumstantial... meaning theres still a chance i'm totally wrong.

    In the end I think that a game will be released, and that those who've "believed" in the game will be so grateful they will swallow any alpha version crap with which they ar e presented and call it the food of the gods.  Because thats another issue all together... who says any MMORPG released and ready to charge a fee has to work at all?  You buy it as is, so even if they release a version of pong... would they be liable for fraud?  I doubt it.

    Forgive my errors as its nearly 4 am, why did I even bother? LOL

  • bugmenbugmen Member Posts: 61


    Originally posted by happydan20
    Because thats another issue all together... who says any MMORPG released and ready to charge a fee has to work at all? You buy it as is, so even if they release a version of pong... would they be liable for fraud? I doubt it.


    A guild all got there money back on shadowbane after there first 30 days. All credit card charges were put back on ubi-soft.

  • ShrubberShrubber Member Posts: 219


    Originally posted by bugmen
    Originally posted by happydan20
    Because thats another issue all together... who says any MMORPG released and ready to charge a fee has to work at all? You buy it as is, so even if they release a version of pong... would they be liable for fraud? I doubt it.


    A guild all got there money back on shadowbane after there first 30 days. All credit card charges were put back on ubi-soft.


    Id like to see that article. Either way, UBI is a massive company with a US base and is responsible for there actions. But a small company in a third world country....... not so sure.

  • KiamdeKiamde Member CommonPosts: 5,820


    Originally posted by Grunch
    Whats funny Kiamde is you would get fanbios that will defend your fake game to the death saying they know people that know people that know people that are in beta. lololol image


    The ultimate soldiers!

    "Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"

    "When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman

  • WoWisLEETWoWisLEET Member Posts: 68



    Originally posted by happydan20

     
    People assume they are safe on this preorder issue but they really aren't.  you GAVE someone your credit card information without any real evidence (that I've seen) that a legitimate company exists.  It's also an overseas company for most of us this adds a layer of complicated legally and the bottom line is everyone who preorders chooses to do so... so you cant call the credit card company and get it that way.  All they have to do is file chapter 11 and they cant be sued from that day forth.  they've set a precident of slow information they could easily get a few months head start.
    The middle man company dealing directly with the cash has a very similar spelling to a company placed on the scam watch list.  The simple fact of this whole matter is that every company involved (save for the german one) has no documentation on the sites that list companies like this...  The only records that can be found are on game related sites.  Admins for these companies with yahoo email addresses for publishers and the publisher SHARES the site with the developer.
     



    Don't forget that Accentra Inc. is an established business in the U.S. .  Which means if they are running a scam (of which there is only speculation that I have read so far), then they will be held responsible seeing as they are accepting and handling the credit card issues.  Yahoo does offer business email services btw.  The oversees company you refer to is developing the game (Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC), not handling your money first hand.  If you people are so concerned about your pre-orders.  Then place your pre-order with a gift card that only has a $30 limit.  That way you can cut your losses in case of a scam.

    I have not pre-ordered this game.  I do agree they need to release more info on this game.  I am following this game, Darkfall, and Dark and Light.  So far I have seen no evidence of a scam, at most (in my opinion) this game may possibly never make it to market.

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,359


    Originally posted by Kiamde
    Originally posted by Grunch
    Whats funny Kiamde is you would get fanbios that will defend your fake game to the death saying they know people that know people that know people that are in beta. lololol image


    The ultimate soldiers!


    lol sad but true

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • ghoul31ghoul31 Member Posts: 1,955

    Yes the game doesn't exist

    And Elvis is still alive and working for the FBI

     

    After the game is released, I hope you guys all come here and post about what complete morons you were for posting this nonsense. BUt you won't of course

     

  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    With this whole companies issue heres the quote from the piece:

    The pre-orders will be billed by a company called "Accentra, Inc." (www.accentrainc.com).

    Here's what I have on them;

    listed on the Register of Known Spam Operators (ROKSO) - though might be a different Accentra, Inc? (Dunno, I have a bad feeling)

    Administrative contact for the website www.accentrainc.com has a @yahoo.com email address.

    Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC are not the only people involved. Appearantly another TWO "companies" Quad Software and Newrosoft Research and Development are as well.

    As with Limitless Horizons, none have a website and aren't mentioned anywhere other than various game sites.

    Also checking out some company registrar websites for Romania turned up nothing on all three.

    --------

    Not only do they not have websites they don't appear to be registered companies in their country.

    Show me another MMORPG that has this lack of company documentation.

    I can name one, my mmorpg starcarft universe... because it's not real and I have nothing:)

  • WoWisLEETWoWisLEET Member Posts: 68

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC announces partnership with South Korean publisher/distributor Abyss Interactive.
    Hartford CT - (8/11/2002) Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC, producer/publisher of the upcoming next generation massively multi-player online role-playing game (MMORPG) Realms of Torment announces a publishing and distribution partnership with Abyss Interactive Co., Ltd. located in Seoul Korea.

    "About Abyss Interactive Co., Ltd."

    Abyss Interactive has successfully published and or distributed more than 30 titles including Starcraft, Baldurs gate II, Diablo II, Icewind dale and most recently Dark Age of Camelot to the Korean market and has now been granted publishing rights to the upcoming Realms of torment title.

    Abyss Interactive currently holds distribution rights to PC cafe's which number more than 20,000 nationwide, making them one of the leading publishing and distribution firms in South Korea.

    "About Realms of Torment"

    Realms of Torment is a next generation MMORPG set in a medieval fantasy world featuring 3D accelerated graphics which take full advantage of Nvidia's geforce3 and geforce4 technology. The core of Realms of Torment is made up of country vs country strife with RTS elements mixed in. Started in 2001 and currently in the early beta stages of development, Realms of Torment is scheduled for a Q1 2003 release. Realms of Torment sets out to change the general perception of the playability of MMORPG titles by veering off of the well traveled path others have taken and by implementing many innovative ideas such as blood lines, degradable skills, player generated questing systems, permanent death situations, player driven economy and the removal of player levels and classes.

    "About Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC"

    Based in the Hartford CT area Limitless Horizons Entertainment LLC is a software development firm providing internet solutions for online businesses.

    "About Quad Software & Maxim Software"

    Both companies are based in Bucharest,Romania and are two of the leading software development organizations in the Bucharest area. The companies have extensive experience in 3D graphics ,networking, 3D engine programming and software for managing the activities of large scale insurance companies, banks and small businesses.



    Teich Dragon
    Stratics Central APM
    UO Stratics News Team Manager
    Stratics - The Massive Multiplayer Network

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lets not forget that the textures are being done by the same person who did the textures in Gothic 2 (Mihai Anghelina).  So from what I have found, this game is far from a scam.  Below is a pic of Mihai.

    http://www.computergames.ro/site/p/articles/o/interview/lng/en/artid/245/mihai_anghelina_and_gothic_ii.html

     

    edit:  Btw, there sure are alot of companies at work for a scam that has less than 4000 pre-orders.  In the end that is not alot of money for all the proof that exists for this game.  Once again I am following this game, Darkfall, and Dark and Light.  I do not currently have a pre-order with any of these games.

  • HarelinHarelin Member UncommonPosts: 409

    Good find.

  • WoWisLEETWoWisLEET Member Posts: 68



    Originally posted by happydan20
    Not only do they not have websites they don't appear to be registered companies in their country.
    Show me another MMORPG that has this lack of company documentation.
    I can name one, my mmorpg starcarft universe... because it's not real and I have nothing:)



    Aventureine S.A. (creators of Darkfall) only have a site with a logo: http://www.aventurine.gr/  .  So does this mean that Darkfall will be a scam when they start to take pre-orders?
  • CervethCerveth Member Posts: 97

    Well, I've been in beta for over 2 years and been playing on and off for this amount of time.

    I don't care if I break NDA because I don't plan to buy, or play my beta account anymore. I havn't for over 6 months as it is.

    It does exist.

  • happydan20happydan20 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    I don't know why people fear an NDA in a game, a new name new board and how are they ever to connect the two? LOL

    Could you perhaps address some of the issues then?  Do the staff in-game treat people as they do on their boards?

    Concerning the screenshots that look fake or incomplete (like the wall thats clearly not 3d and others)

    Can you relate any of this in game?  Concering your preorder (is that a requirement for the beta? if it is..)

    What information did you have to give them?

    Also whens the last time you played? how recent is your playing time? (making the assumption that they are improving things.. how old is your info:)

    --

    And for all of you that say its a beta, realise they havent bothered to update sites like MMORPG.COM so according to this info the game is released erm 2 days from now.

    That lack of communication aside, I've heard of the open beta only scheduled to last a week...  Can anyone more familar with  the situation give some insight?

  • CervethCerveth Member Posts: 97

    The game last time I played had a full skill line, creatures...dungeons..monsters...PVP. It was a full on game. It needed vast improvment, and the graphic detail even at highest wasn't up to snuff with the screen shots.


    I cannot comment on the screenshots he refers too, but I can say the game worked, seemed to be a working real game and the staff was almost never present in the game world. I did however have a GM/Staff talk to me while I was trying to re-create a dupe bug. He asked how I found what I did and such.


    I still do not plan to buy this game, but I'm sure it's not a scam. If anyone wants me to fire up my account give me a PM and we'll talk.

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