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I finally understand the Pay to Win argument

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  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Member Posts: 222

    OMG guys wait!! If they launch the game at early morning like at say 8 AM Eastern time then the East coast US players will have a couple hours head start over the Pacific time zone on launch day!

    GW2 is just "Time-zone to win"

  • ennymithennymith Member UncommonPosts: 121

    The polllyanna responses here that no one is going to spend piles of money consistently to have the best possible scenario is just totally out of sync with what can be observed in just about every competitve human activity where economics can make a difference.  I know from personal observation in other MMORPGs that some players/guilds spend upwards of  thousands of real dollars a month on large scale PVP game buffs, supplies, consumables, quickly leveling up using cash shop XP boosts to make new members max level and fully skilled and then paying members to show up for battles. 

     

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk Member Posts: 894
    Originally posted by ennymith

    The polllyanna responses here that no one is going to spend piles of money consistently to have the best possible scenario is just totally out of sync with what can be observed in just about every competitve human activity where economics can make a difference.  I know from personal observation in other MMORPGs that some players/guilds spend upwards of  thousands of real dollars a month on large scale PVP game buffs, supplies, consumables, quickly leveling up using cash shop XP boosts to make new members max level and fully skilled and then paying members to show up for battles. 

     

    You can get to 80 faster with boosts and trade gems for gold but neither will give you an advantage.

     

    I predict that the first people to hit 80 will do so in less than 4 days time. Most hardcore players that focus on leveling a single character will start to hit 80 in about 2 weeks. Gold may seem hard to get at level 15 in a 2 day beta weekend but that's going to change very quickly when the game goes live.

     

    So less than one month after the game goes live, where does that leave us?

    Many people are already 80 and getting to 80 isn't a challenge.

    Cash shop items don't give an advantage in sPvP or WvW.

    You won't need to sell gems in order to be able to afford blueprints.

    Blueprint   Coins or     Badges for Blueprint     Supplies needed to build  
    Flame Ram  4 Silver coin.png 2 Badge of Honor.png 40
    Arrow cart  4 Silver coin.png 2 Badge of Honor.png 20
    Ballista  6 Silver coin.png 3 Badge of Honor.png 30
    Catapult  8 Silver coin.png 4 Badge of Honor.png 50
    Trebuchet  16 Silver coin.png 4 Badge of Honor.png 50
    Alpha Siege Golem Gold coin.png 40 Badge of Honor.png 100

     

    Guild Wars 2 PvE is cooperative.

     

    So what exactly is the advantage in Guild Wars 2 that justifies the pay to win label assigned by the OP?

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima Member UncommonPosts: 865

    It's really dreadful to read  so much misinformation and jacked speculation in a single thread.

    The MMO Market has changed, whether gamers like it or not. The subscription model is already a thing of the past. Only a selective few Western titles still cling to it. As the new current business model is F2P, the companies need to create ways to generate revenue from titles.

    There are good and bad ways to do so. The 'bad' way is the traditional Korean/Chinese model of F2P with heavy focus on cash shop buffs, to the point of the game being almost unplayable unless you buy you way into it. The good way is how Anet did it for GW2: AAA production title, with a Cash Shop that sells some services (some of which are also paid in P2P games) and heavily oriented towards cosmetics and other perks.

    People who complain GW2 is P2W or a Cash Shop dependent game have no idea what they are talking about. They obviously haven't seen how bad Cash Shops can get, and they have some distorted view about the role of in-game currency has in GW2 (due to the fact that you can exchange Gold for Gems, which are bought with real money).

    Of course, we can be speculative and say that if they decided already to implement a Cash Shop, Anet could be persuaded later on to perform a Black Mess in their Attic, sacrificing 7 WoW Fans to obtain the favors of Beelzecash, overlord fo the Perverse Cash Shops, sealing the fate of the game with direct combat boosts and PvP sets. Sure, we can do that. But is there any indication that this will happen? No. Anet already has experience with Cash Shops in GW1, and the game is still a success today.

    If you are do debilitatingly irritated by the Cash Shop, Never click that small little button there, and you are good to go. Play the game, still be competitive as the guy next door, and have fun your way. It's not like LotRO, where you have thousands buttons of BUY NOW spread throughout the game's interface.

    And, if you are REAALLY mad, simple ask for a refund now. Anet is granting those, hassle free, for those who hated the game for some reason or another.

    But don't weave complex tales of idiocy about the Cash Shop, please. You are only making yourself look stupid for those who played the game and know how things work.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,792

    Not worried about this for 3 reasons:

    1. As the OP said level 80 cash will be a different ball game. Also you will have guilds working together to fund their WvW efforts. Every orgnized guild is going to show up with all the toys. This is a fact. I am a old school DAoC player and this is how all guilds rolled.

    2nd is not many people have a endless supply of cash to keep them top dog. 

    3rd is the most important to remember. ANet has said they dont want GW2 to be pay 2 win. If things are out of balance, be sure that ANet will fix it. If they dont, ANet stands to lose a lot of players. They know this.



  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa Member Posts: 620
    Originally posted by lifeordinary
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by lifeordinary

    Who gives a f*** which MMO takes MMO OF THE YEAR reward as if it means anything. Eve was nominated MMO of the year many times and i wouldn't even touch it.

    Also back to topic, right now the only fix is to boost the money rewards in PVP at lower levels because a lot of players like me would be playing GW2 for PVP alone. And i certainly don't want people to buy seige and stuff because they can spend more rl money through gems.

    It might not be  a problem at high levels but since you can start pvp at lvl 1 in GW2 it is certainly a problem for low level players.

    WvW isn't PvP.

    WvW isn't perfectly balanced.

    It is a PvE/PvP hybrid.

    WHAT?

    what what? WvW isnt only pvp, is a mix of PvE and PvP...... and isnt supposed to be balanced either. 

  • MothanosMothanos Member UncommonPosts: 1,910

    Never had money problems tbh....

    I conquered keeps and towers left and right all day and ended up with 13 silver from doing WvW alone from level 3 :)

    1 thing that is anoying is my gear breaks down fast tough :(

    Hope this will get slightly adjusted before release.

     

  • GoldenArrowGoldenArrow Member UncommonPosts: 1,185
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Not worried about this for 3 reasons:

    1. As the OP said level 80 cash will be a different ball game. Also you will have guilds working together to fund their WvW efforts. Every orgnized guild is going to show up with all the toys. This is a fact. I am a old school DAoC player and this is how all guilds rolled.

    2nd is not many people have a endless supply of cash to keep them top dog. 

    3rd is the most important to remember. ANet has said they dont want GW2 to be pay 2 win. If things are out of balance, be sure that ANet will fix it. If they dont, ANet stands to lose a lot of players. They know this.

    1) That's how it should be. With GW2 a one player can put effort of 20 players in a slash of a credit card. I doubt any serious guilds are going to avoid the CS. It'll be a big part of WvW.

    2) You'd be suprised how much cash people use in CS that sell "power".

    3) It's B2P A.Net doesn't give a crap about  retention as long as the players come back for the expansions. They want to keep the CS selling so the revenue will keep coming.

    The whole statement from A.net that WvWvW is/ will not be balanced is retarded. The only balanced PvP in this game is the instanced one and that feels like playing Counter-Strike. Job well done! :P

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa Member Posts: 620

    what guild need to trade gems for gold???? that must be a very small guild, my guild with just some day could have lot of gold (and we werent even work for that). this with low lvl characters, now imagine with most of guiildies with 80 lvl characters.

    dont know in what kind of guild some people are to think gold is hard to get and i need to remember almost all siege weapon (except silly golem) are almost free, 4-7s is nothing to a serious guild. 

  • ennymithennymith Member UncommonPosts: 121

    I will just put it this way, if you think you are going to be successful in WvW without a significant monthly outlay of cash greater than the average game sub, I think you have a surprise in store. 

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