Got a feeling Anet really doesnt want to do a "traditional" thief. I would guess anything that makes stealth last more then 5 seconds will be fixed. For original qustion.. if you want the theif like WoW or any other always stealth game, or even a longer lasting stealth, this is not a game for you. Good luck in finding a game you do enjoy.
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
+1
I dislike perma stealth in all situations. It's a feature that is not needed in any game
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
oh I hope it will get a permanent stealth and tbh I dont care what other people are playing in other games
uh the variety of opinions - must be hard for some
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
I think the way they have it now is great. The stealth feels like an action rather than a condition for people to hide behind. I have no problem with longer stealth durations in PvE, but when it gets into PvP waters it is kinda fuzzy on what is an approriate length to be stealthed ans also what are they ways of detecting.
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
+1
I dislike perma stealth in all situations. It's a feature that is not needed in any game
I agree 100%. The mechanics of the Theif in GW2 make it very exciting to play and play against I think. When they go stealth, you are frantically looking around trying to find them, and at the same time trying to get away from where they disappeared to try to avoid an attack out of stealth.
The teleportation the theif has is just incredible as far as movement and juking potential. It is more difficult to use skillfully, but is also incredibly hard to keep up with someone that knows how to use it. I have had a great time with the shadow stepping in game so far.
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
I think the way they have it now is great. The stealth feels like an action rather than a condition for people to hide behind. I have no problem with longer stealth durations in PvE, but when it gets into PvP waters it is kinda fuzzy on what is an approriate length to be stealthed ans also what are they ways of detecting.
Agreed. Stealth should be something you use situationally, and not something you use as soon as you are out of combat granting you an insane advantage over everyone else by being able to permanently pick your fights.
Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r
oh I hope it will get a permanent stealth and tbh I dont care what other people are playing in other games
Well, I doubt that will ever happen. This said, you have WoW, SW:TOR and LOTRO if that's what you enjoy.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
I think the way they have it now is great. The stealth feels like an action rather than a condition for people to hide behind. I have no problem with longer stealth durations in PvE, but when it gets into PvP waters it is kinda fuzzy on what is an approriate length to be stealthed ans also what are they ways of detecting.
Agreed. Stealth should be something you use situationally, and not something you use as soon as you are out of combat granting you an insane advantage over everyone else by being able to permanently pick your fights.
Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r
oh I hope it will get a permanent stealth and tbh I dont care what other people are playing in other games
Well, I doubt that will ever happen. This said, you have WoW, SW:TOR and LOTRO if that's what you enjoy.
no no I enjoy gw2 too but I just prefer perma stealth
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
oh I hope it will get a permanent stealth and tbh I dont care what other people are playing in other games
uh the variety of opinions - must be hard for some
To each their own, but I am wondering why you think this is "better". I don't think permanent Stealth does anything to enhance gameplay. It slows it down. It turns it into a camp-fest. Being invisible and stun locking someone for 10 seconds as you kill them isn't skillful or balanced. Also, stealth is an easy mode crutch escape tool most of the time.
How do you think it actually adds to gameplay? This is ignoring the fact that you like it.
I seriously don't see it happening in this game, that is for sure. PvP situations are where it has the biggest balance problem and unfairness.
I hope it gets one, it keeps me on my toes as to thinking someone sneaky is around..
Person who don't like it probably had bad experience against such class in the past..
I can say the way a person reacts to such class is priceless compare to other classes, it makes them think and act quicker, it they don't they won't there is a high chance of them dying...
I just hope this game will never get a permanent stealth like classes in WoW, SW:TOR or other games. I can live without the average person playing a WoW rogue playing this game too.
oh I hope it will get a permanent stealth and tbh I dont care what other people are playing in other games
uh the variety of opinions - must be hard for some
To each their own, but I am wondering why you think this is "better". Permanent Stealth does nothing to enchance gameplay. It slows it down. It turns it into a camp-fest. It is incredibly over powered in most games I have played. And is also an easy mode crutch escape tool most of the time.
How do you think it actually adds to gameplay, especially when it takes basically zero skill to use. I seriously don't see it happening in this game, that is for sure. PvP situations are where it has the biggest balance problem.
[mod edit]
I read it as his opinion on it. If you read it as an emotional response to what you were saying, I can see that.
I can see both sides of this, as someone who played a Hunter in DaoC and a Rogue in WoW. Some of those stealther wars in DaoC was epic, and perma stealth in a bg was a tool that came in handy.
The problem is, I can see how some people that dont play stealthers can get annoyed with being attacked without a chance to fight back. A stealthers greatest weapon is being able to chose when and where the battle starts. And lets face it, it sucks taking your hands off the keyboard to take a drink or eat something and suddenly you are in a battle you werent ready for.
I can take it or leave it. It seems to me like Anet has decided not to go with the MMO traditional invisable stealth.
It's simply not a stealth class. It's a mobility class and very versatile . There are some vanishes but not a true stealth class by MMO standards even with traits.
That outlook on the class is just another case of certain players forming an opinion of a class being lacking, when the reality of the situation is that the particular thief player simply wasn't very good.
An example of what thieves can do when you are not terrible:
Every beta weekend I've beta pummeling players with my Thief, non-stop, without much issue. Take it as you will, but for me that is evidence enough that skilled thieves will be just fine come launch.
Not to long ago some one leaked an internal conversation between the devs & the closed beta tester and judging from that, the Thief is being completely reworked. Chances are that any such build, like the one in that vid, won't work in the next beta weekend.
to my knowledge,leaping death blossom spam didnt work in recent bwe builds.which from what i saw,is what that video basically is.another leaping death blossom spam cool kid thief
I hated the Rogue class in WoW... such a one trick, cheese class. I initially discounted the Thief in GW2 but decided to roll one in BWE1. I haven't played any other class past level 5 because the Theif is that much fun to me. Great manuverability and evasiveness is SOOO much fun to play in PvP and I don't feel like I'm a one trick stealth/ambush baddie. I get to make a rogue-like class more like a Pirate!
That outlook on the class is just another case of certain players forming an opinion of a class being lacking, when the reality of the situation is that the particular thief player simply wasn't very good.
An example of what thieves can do when you are not terrible:
Every beta weekend I've beta pummeling players with my Thief, non-stop, without much issue. Take it as you will, but for me that is evidence enough that skilled thieves will be just fine come launch.
Not to long ago some one leaked an internal conversation between the devs & the closed beta tester and judging from that, the Thief is being completely reworked. Chances are that any such build, like the one in that vid, won't work in the next beta weekend.
to my knowledge,leaping death blossom spam didnt work in recent bwe builds.which from what i saw,is what that video basically is.another leaping death blossom spam cool kid thief
That Thief in the video seems like a good player especially as far as positioning goes. The thing with the Thief is that every build seems to have an ability you need to spam to a degree, not the players fault for playing the spec correctly.
From my experience in all the previous tests: no, there is no such thing as a class that has a perma-stealth or even an extended amount of invisibility.
Interesting.
Stealth is one of those mechanics individuals either love or despise; generally, because of toggled stealth.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I hated the Rogue class in WoW... such a one trick, cheese class. I initially discounted the Thief in GW2 but decided to roll one in BWE1. I haven't played any other class past level 5 because the Theif is that much fun to me. Great manuverability and evasiveness is SOOO much fun to play in PvP and I don't feel like I'm a one trick stealth/ambush baddie. I get to make a rogue-like class more like a Pirate!
yeah,i tried making a rogue in wow.it was fun at early levels but i just couldnt stand the needing to be in stealth all the time so i stopped playing it
its kinda funny to cuz in the mmo i played before wow all i really ever pvp'd with were rogue types but they didnt use stealth though
That outlook on the class is just another case of certain players forming an opinion of a class being lacking, when the reality of the situation is that the particular thief player simply wasn't very good.
An example of what thieves can do when you are not terrible:
Every beta weekend I've beta pummeling players with my Thief, non-stop, without much issue. Take it as you will, but for me that is evidence enough that skilled thieves will be just fine come launch.
Not to long ago some one leaked an internal conversation between the devs & the closed beta tester and judging from that, the Thief is being completely reworked. Chances are that any such build, like the one in that vid, won't work in the next beta weekend.
to my knowledge,leaping death blossom spam didnt work in recent bwe builds.which from what i saw,is what that video basically is.another leaping death blossom spam cool kid thief
I don't think LDB was ever supposed to be a primary single-target burst damage power. It's good for throwing out a little bit of aoe damage, works GREAT with poisons, and provides fantastic mobility. It's like having an extra dodge roll if you knowhow to use it well.
I remember the days of a guy playing a Undead rogue posting YouTube videos...
Naked, no armor, using starter level 1 grey (junk) quality weapons... and destroying people 1vs1.
Back in Vanilla days.
Perma-stealth is a crutch for bad PvP'ers.
"OH I hid like a pansy and then stun-locked you to death! I have talent!"
Umm no, no you don't kid.
LMAO exactly! I hated in particular that i'd be following my friends on a mount in PVP BG's and suddenly get sapped while still mounted, and left sapped while they were all fighting in the area i was heading. It's ridiculous and stupid and OP that a class can do that to anyone. What's next mages be able to mindstun people from a distance and just leave them standing there?
From my experience in all the previous tests: no, there is no such thing as a class that has a perma-stealth or even an extended amount of invisibility.
Interesting.
Stealth is one of those mechanics individuals either love or despise; generally, because of toggled stealth.
I actually almost always go for a stealthy approach in games with "true stealth" aka, using the environment to avoid detection. Even in MMO's (where I almost never play a stealth class), I tend to use LoS to avoid detection as much as possible.
But toggled stealth has sort of become synonymous with a dude stunlocking you for ages while you see your health dwindle away, unable to act, or to classes that can use stealth to extend their expected life span in PvP for ages. That combined with the fact that these classes have always suffered under severe balancing problems in all MMO's I've played (either killing people WAY too fast, or being totally unviable because their initial burst is too low), make me dislike them.
It just feel like every stealth class in all recent MMO's are continuously giving me the finger whenever they use their stuff. Even though I've become extremely good at rooting people out of stealth using AOE damage, they continue to annoy me to no end.
I won't make any big claims about required skill (though double mace rogues and pre-nerf operatives / scoundrels still linger in my mind), but it just fucking annoys me, period. I also don't think there's a role for them in huge castle sieges and so forth, or even in PvE, given the way GW2 is build.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Here's the thing about stealth. In the perma-stealth model, with no foil in place, the class with togglable perma-stealth has a ridiculous ad vantage over others.
"Aha!" developers say. " We'll create skills for other classes to use to defeat/negate the usefulness of stealth!"
And then stealth becomes pointless. People stop using it because they know it will be foiled; other people carry an ability that they don't use but need just in case there's a stealth type. I've not seen a game where the use of perma toggleable stealth as well implemented. Don't say WoW. Just don't.
There's even worse than stealth in WoW clones. The mechanic called "Vanish" in WoW (it also exists in SW:TOR and other clones). The character basically casts one spell to get him rid of all debuffs, then another to re-stealth it in the middle of combat. The typical overpowered coward ability.
Ideal stealth would be having to stay in shadows - under trees, near walls, etc - to be "invisible" - but that would be impractical and would require very specific PvP areas. The way GW2 does stealth is a damned good compromise in my opinion.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I'm surprised that no one has said anything about the "reveal" mechanic in the game. This stops any sort of heavy stealth builds with this class since you get revealed for around 4 seconds after you get out of stealth, even if you re-stealth.
That said, you can still spec for a heavy stealth build, it's just not as effective as other builds currently (in PvP anyways).
Comments
Got a feeling Anet really doesnt want to do a "traditional" thief. I would guess anything that makes stealth last more then 5 seconds will be fixed. For original qustion.. if you want the theif like WoW or any other always stealth game, or even a longer lasting stealth, this is not a game for you. Good luck in finding a game you do enjoy.
+1
I dislike perma stealth in all situations. It's a feature that is not needed in any game
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
oh I hope it will get a permanent stealth and tbh I dont care what other people are playing in other games
uh the variety of opinions - must be hard for some
I think the way they have it now is great. The stealth feels like an action rather than a condition for people to hide behind. I have no problem with longer stealth durations in PvE, but when it gets into PvP waters it is kinda fuzzy on what is an approriate length to be stealthed ans also what are they ways of detecting.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I agree 100%. The mechanics of the Theif in GW2 make it very exciting to play and play against I think. When they go stealth, you are frantically looking around trying to find them, and at the same time trying to get away from where they disappeared to try to avoid an attack out of stealth.
The teleportation the theif has is just incredible as far as movement and juking potential. It is more difficult to use skillfully, but is also incredibly hard to keep up with someone that knows how to use it. I have had a great time with the shadow stepping in game so far.
Agreed. Stealth should be something you use situationally, and not something you use as soon as you are out of combat granting you an insane advantage over everyone else by being able to permanently pick your fights.
Well, I doubt that will ever happen. This said, you have WoW, SW:TOR and LOTRO if that's what you enjoy.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
no no I enjoy gw2 too but I just prefer perma stealth
uh pigeonholing
To each their own, but I am wondering why you think this is "better". I don't think permanent Stealth does anything to enhance gameplay. It slows it down. It turns it into a camp-fest. Being invisible and stun locking someone for 10 seconds as you kill them isn't skillful or balanced. Also, stealth is an easy mode crutch escape tool most of the time.
How do you think it actually adds to gameplay? This is ignoring the fact that you like it.
I seriously don't see it happening in this game, that is for sure. PvP situations are where it has the biggest balance problem and unfairness.
Person who don't like it probably had bad experience against such class in the past..
I can say the way a person reacts to such class is priceless compare to other classes, it makes them think and act quicker, it they don't they won't there is a high chance of them dying...
I read it as his opinion on it. If you read it as an emotional response to what you were saying, I can see that.
I can see both sides of this, as someone who played a Hunter in DaoC and a Rogue in WoW. Some of those stealther wars in DaoC was epic, and perma stealth in a bg was a tool that came in handy.
The problem is, I can see how some people that dont play stealthers can get annoyed with being attacked without a chance to fight back. A stealthers greatest weapon is being able to chose when and where the battle starts. And lets face it, it sucks taking your hands off the keyboard to take a drink or eat something and suddenly you are in a battle you werent ready for.
I can take it or leave it. It seems to me like Anet has decided not to go with the MMO traditional invisable stealth.
It's simply not a stealth class. It's a mobility class and very versatile . There are some vanishes but not a true stealth class by MMO standards even with traits.
to my knowledge,leaping death blossom spam didnt work in recent bwe builds.which from what i saw,is what that video basically is.another leaping death blossom spam cool kid thief
I hated the Rogue class in WoW... such a one trick, cheese class. I initially discounted the Thief in GW2 but decided to roll one in BWE1. I haven't played any other class past level 5 because the Theif is that much fun to me. Great manuverability and evasiveness is SOOO much fun to play in PvP and I don't feel like I'm a one trick stealth/ambush baddie. I get to make a rogue-like class more like a Pirate!
That Thief in the video seems like a good player especially as far as positioning goes. The thing with the Thief is that every build seems to have an ability you need to spam to a degree, not the players fault for playing the spec correctly.
Interesting.
Stealth is one of those mechanics individuals either love or despise; generally, because of toggled stealth.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
yeah,i tried making a rogue in wow.it was fun at early levels but i just couldnt stand the needing to be in stealth all the time so i stopped playing it
its kinda funny to cuz in the mmo i played before wow all i really ever pvp'd with were rogue types but they didnt use stealth though
I remember the days of a guy playing a Undead rogue posting YouTube videos...
Naked, no armor, using starter level 1 grey (junk) quality weapons... and destroying people 1vs1.
Back in Vanilla days.
Perma-stealth is a crutch for bad PvP'ers.
"OH I hid like a pansy and then stun-locked you to death! I have talent!"
Umm no, no you don't kid.
I don't think LDB was ever supposed to be a primary single-target burst damage power. It's good for throwing out a little bit of aoe damage, works GREAT with poisons, and provides fantastic mobility. It's like having an extra dodge roll if you knowhow to use it well.
This is so true, i hate invisible shit more than anything.
and if you think about it the skill to flat out just turn invisible is magic, that should be a mage skill.
when did rogues all of the sudden get a powerfull magic spell in games that just lets them think it and turn invisible when ever they want?
NO perma-stealth in GW2.
And I pray to the GW2 Gods that there will never be any.
There are other MMOs out there that offer it, you should go enjoy one of those instead.
LMAO exactly! I hated in particular that i'd be following my friends on a mount in PVP BG's and suddenly get sapped while still mounted, and left sapped while they were all fighting in the area i was heading. It's ridiculous and stupid and OP that a class can do that to anyone. What's next mages be able to mindstun people from a distance and just leave them standing there?
I actually almost always go for a stealthy approach in games with "true stealth" aka, using the environment to avoid detection. Even in MMO's (where I almost never play a stealth class), I tend to use LoS to avoid detection as much as possible.
But toggled stealth has sort of become synonymous with a dude stunlocking you for ages while you see your health dwindle away, unable to act, or to classes that can use stealth to extend their expected life span in PvP for ages. That combined with the fact that these classes have always suffered under severe balancing problems in all MMO's I've played (either killing people WAY too fast, or being totally unviable because their initial burst is too low), make me dislike them.
It just feel like every stealth class in all recent MMO's are continuously giving me the finger whenever they use their stuff. Even though I've become extremely good at rooting people out of stealth using AOE damage, they continue to annoy me to no end.
I won't make any big claims about required skill (though double mace rogues and pre-nerf operatives / scoundrels still linger in my mind), but it just fucking annoys me, period. I also don't think there's a role for them in huge castle sieges and so forth, or even in PvE, given the way GW2 is build.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Here's the thing about stealth. In the perma-stealth model, with no foil in place, the class with togglable perma-stealth has a ridiculous ad vantage over others.
"Aha!" developers say. " We'll create skills for other classes to use to defeat/negate the usefulness of stealth!"
And then stealth becomes pointless. People stop using it because they know it will be foiled; other people carry an ability that they don't use but need just in case there's a stealth type. I've not seen a game where the use of perma toggleable stealth as well implemented. Don't say WoW. Just don't.
There's even worse than stealth in WoW clones. The mechanic called "Vanish" in WoW (it also exists in SW:TOR and other clones). The character basically casts one spell to get him rid of all debuffs, then another to re-stealth it in the middle of combat. The typical overpowered coward ability.
Ideal stealth would be having to stay in shadows - under trees, near walls, etc - to be "invisible" - but that would be impractical and would require very specific PvP areas. The way GW2 does stealth is a damned good compromise in my opinion.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I'm surprised that no one has said anything about the "reveal" mechanic in the game. This stops any sort of heavy stealth builds with this class since you get revealed for around 4 seconds after you get out of stealth, even if you re-stealth.
That said, you can still spec for a heavy stealth build, it's just not as effective as other builds currently (in PvP anyways).