The future of MMO payment.

SkullyWoods

So I'm up way too early and once again I'm mulling over random MMO shit in my head and I was thinking...will payment methods for MMOs always be in the structure that they're in now? And if not how do you think they will change?

GTwander

I think they are going to move unilaterally into even MORE ways to work you for cash... at least from triple-A games.

The sub is going nowhere, lets face it. It proves a sly launch phase method to get guaranteed income in the initial months, and they will only change direction once it proves a sufficient barrier over time. So we will end up seeing a lot more of Box + Sub + CS + Xpacs/DLC in the future.

Smaller games will likely go a more 'honest' route, if only to catch players frustrated by how the big name games are taking it.

The question is, though - what else can they charge you for on top of all that?

Because *that* will be the future of the genre... tacked onto what is.

SkullyWoods

But I mean how long has it been the way it is now? You would think that they would have hit that wall by now. Do you think they're probably rethinking it as we speak? Or are they content with what they're making as it is...

GTwander

Dude, they are making so much money it's funding completely different projects from the ground up.

Very little goes into the game you're *actually* paying for these days. As for being 'content' with it? Not until they can legally lift you up by the feet and shake you till the jingly falls out.

SkullyWoods

I believe that. I mean looking at it from their angle I guess there isn't much to complain about. What about maybe an overall fee for an account with the company? Like say Blizzard charged you a sub for a Blizzard account which would gain you access to all of their games. Would that be feasible?

GTwander

SOE is a better example. Blizzard still only has WoW atm, but they may think about such a thing when the next cashcow arrives... or not. Maybe they'll have a meeting and figure it's best to just make people pay 15$ a month for each. They do seem to hold anything they make in high regard, like a Squeenix game, but in both circumstances - I just don't see it... but millions of others do, and that's all that matters.

Plus, the SOE pass is just for access to subbed games, which are mostly now going to a freemium service, meaning you likely get a bare minimum sub out of a range of usually 3 per-game. I have no idea how they are working it these days - but remember that each game has a CS as well.

~Oh yeah, I expect some emulation of the Diablo 3 RMAH as well. Imagine what will happen when MMOs starting picking that up.

Z3R01

 

The future of mmo payment models. 

I think we are already getting a taste for it now no?

High quality mmos releasing F2p, Failed P2P MMOs going F2p and suceeding, One B2P game being anything anyone ever wants to talk about and the passed 6 or so AAA P2P games completely failing.

I would be surprised if only a very few developers stick with the P2P subscription model in the next 5-10 years.

SkullyWoods

Ah good point good point. In any case it seems there will always be multiple ways to or not to pay.

toddze

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

So I'm up way too early and once again I'm mulling over random MMO shit in my head and I was thinking...will payment methods for MMOs always be in the structure that they're in now? And if not how do you think they will change?

These online RPG;s that masquarade around as MMO's need to be changed. I am more than happy to pay 15 a month for an MMORPG that has a plethora of content with constant updates. I refuse to pay for a subscription to 99% of these games now, because they are just not MMO's. Basically developers now are abusing the system of what the good old MMO's established. But I cant blame them either, the world is all about the all mighty $$$. Why wouldnt they abuse the system with all the brain dead sheep that buy into all the crap they release now. I know I would I would milk the system. The insentave to actually make a good well thought out game is gone. Why put the extra effort into when you can make a steaming pile of garbage cheep and sell millions of copies with knowing that you might get an extra month or two of subs, and come out making 1 hell of a profit. The problem isnt the game developers, its the consumers.

If we the consumers as a whole say were not paying for your cheeply made garbage, things will change. On the other hand if you guys keep supporting the crap were getting it will not change only get worse. For example I am hearing rumors of games haveing a cash shop AND subscriptions. wtf people. if you support games like that, others will milk you even more, its a snowball effect. Its like DLC, at first it started with good intentions, now its degraded to leaving content out at launch to make you buy it a week after launch. I knew several years ago when DLC just started that it was going to turn into a fleecing of the gamers, my crystal ball did not dissapoint, unfortunatly......

So to answer your question: it depends on the gamers if and how things will change. I am not holding my breath that it will be for the better.

GTwander

Originally posted by toddze
~snip

It's good to see another poster who can see why I'm so FUCKIN' ANGRY!

SkullyWoods

Originally posted by toddze

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

So I'm up way too early and once again I'm mulling over random MMO shit in my head and I was thinking...will payment methods for MMOs always be in the structure that they're in now? And if not how do you think they will change?

These online RPG;s that masquarade around as MMO's need to be changed. I am more than happy to pay 15 a month for an MMORPG that has a plethora of content with constant updates. I refuse to pay for a subscription to 99% of these games now, because they are just not MMO's. Basically developers now are abusing the system of what the good old MMO's established. But I cant blame them either, the world is all about the all mighty $$$. Why wouldnt they abuse the system with all the brain dead sheep that buy into all the crap they release now. I know I would I would milk the system. The insentave to actually make a good well thought out game is gone. Why put the extra effort into when you can make a steaming pile of garbage cheep and sell millions of copies with knowing that you might get an extra month or two of subs, and come out making 1 hell of a profit. The problem isnt the game developers, its the consumers.

If we the consumers as a whole say were not paying for your cheeply made garbage, things will change. On the other hand if you guys keep supporting the crap were getting it will not change only get worse. For example I am hearing rumors of games haveing a cash shop AND subscriptions. wtf people. if you support games like that, others will milk you even more, its a snowball effect. Its like DLC, at first it started with good intentions, now its degraded to leaving content out at launch to make you buy it a week after launch. I knew several years ago when DLC just started that it was going to turn into a fleecing of the gamers, my crystal ball did not dissapoint, unfortunatly......

So to answer your question: it depends on the gamers if and how things will change. I am not holding my breath that it will be for the better.

So keep the current systems and change the game quality to make it worth your money. But you'd have to be an idiot to keep paying for a game you don't enjoy right?

Loktofeit

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

 Like say Blizzard charged you a sub for a Blizzard account which would gain you access to all of their games. Would that be feasible?

That's what SOE does now with the Station Access Pass. You pay one flat fee to access all of their games. This covers both the sub for sub games and the premium access for the premium games. Right now we have a range of some of the more pallatable payment options - sub, tiered service and item malls. There's currently also hourly, but that's not really a Western thing. There's also things like Project Entropia where you pay for necessities, which some may consider pay to win but actually it's really one of the more fair payment systems as your payment is proportional to the content you consume. There's also the Partner Programs where 'free' gametime or points can be obtained by viewing, subscribing to or buying partner products and services. 

So far we haven't explored the more social gameplay in MMOs, as it has been mostly just the themepark and sandbox content. When we do, we'll probably see more payment options arise such as paying to see/attend player run events. This could be anything from watching a player comedy show in-game to joining an online 'tabletop' campaign.

There is a lot more coming to MMOs soon, in both gameplay and business models. Look forward to it! 

GTwander

You are way too open-minded Lok.

We live in a world where EA would like to charge per bullet.

 

~Yes, this is basically what Entropia does, but imagine if it became a standard. We need to stick it to these guys before they sacrifice another goat in the board room and are given new ways to purge us of our moneys.

toddze

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

 

So keep the current systems and change the game quality to make it worth your money. But you'd have to be an idiot to keep paying for a game you don't enjoy right?

Lets look at this from the developer side. Why would they change the game quality? They sell millions of copies, get a couple months sub out of it, then send the game into milk mode. We as gamers always throw out the word fail fail fail. We dont know if the game really fails, to know that we would need to see statements out of the companies finacial dpt. I speculate that these games are not failing on the deveopers end, just the gamers end. With each and every release these games are becoming more streamlined less creative, and even less technically advanced. They are even loosing features that we were once all acustomed too like a housing system, features like this are slowly dissapearing, its to the point now they are gone, and been gone for long enough only the people whose been in the genre a long time know whats happened.  In house engines are not being developed. They choose to use an engine thats they can get realitivly cheep like a hero engine.

You would have to be a big idiot to contiue paying for a game you dont enjoy. I am going to take it a step further than that, you have to be an idiot to buy into MMO hype now a days, and even buy an mmo. TSW will be nothing more than another 90 day'er for most. GWII is different because its b2p, but it still lacks content to keep really playing it for long periods of time. We all know SWTOR turned out to be a joke, But I knew it was that after 1 day in beta. The problem with this genre is the players, they are more than happy to pay for garbage

AlBQuirky

---

Originally posted by toddze
The problem with this genre is the players, they are more than happy to pay for garbage

---

This says it all right here. The companies will charge what the players pay for. So far, players are dancing to their tunes quite nicely.

Sora2810

We're phasing towards F2P; or my favorite term, PayWhenYouWant. I wouldn't be shocked if we moved torwards alternative methods that haven't been thought of yet. We're still wiggling in toddler phase right now on payment models, so why not just try things out.

Once again, it would have to be genre based. I like Blacklight Retributions F2P system, but that would only work for its genre. 

My favorite model is global agenda's. You get a free level, which gives you rewards for dungeons, and pve. An elite level which is to 'buy' the game (Spend $20 once for elite agent status) which gives you improved rewards. Then you can spend a monthly fee to increase your exp/drop rates for $15. It's a great system and could translate to MMORPG's.

FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by GTwander

I think they are going to move unilaterally into even MORE ways to work you for cash... at least from triple-A games.

The sub is going nowhere, lets face it. It proves a sly launch phase method to get guaranteed income in the initial months, and they will only change direction once it proves a sufficient barrier over time. So we will end up seeing a lot more of Box + Sub + CS + Xpacs/DLC in the future.

Smaller games will likely go a more 'honest' route, if only to catch players frustrated by how the big name games are taking it.

The question is, though - what else can they charge you for on top of all that?

Because *that* will be the future of the genre... tacked onto what is.

This is all that needs to be said. First, devs realized players will waste tons in cash shops for cosmetics, so even subs started adding them. Also, if players spend tons in convinience items like boosters, cs's will become 50% cosmetic 50% convinience. And finally, there's expansions and DLC. Whta else is there beyond this? Don't worry, the suits are having meetings at this very moment to come up with something.

Dragonantis

For the years to come I see F2P with cash shop being the main payment medium for MMO's. B2P would be the second, this system I think is worth it the most.

As for subs well, players are migrating away from subs, and developers have started to do the same, give it a couple of years and most MMO's wont have sub payments.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

This is all that needs to be said. First, devs realized players will waste tons in cash shops for cosmetics, so even subs started adding them. Also, if players spend tons in convinience items like boosters, cs's will become 50% cosmetic 50% convinience. And finally, there's expansions and DLC. Whta else is there beyond this? Don't worry, the suits are having meetings at this very moment to come up with something.

There's an interesting view presented in these posts that basically say every other fan or hobbyist (other than them, of course) is stupid and is easily manipulated by 'suits' that come up with nefarious psychological schemes to get people to buy what they don't want. Each one completely overlooks the much more logical scenario, which is that people want to spend more money on the leisure activities that they enjoy and, as a result, the entertainment companies are glad to accommodate them.

FSZ, have you never purchased a concert shirt, sports jersey, movie action figure or live theater playbill? What about popcorn at the cinema?

 

GTwander

Originally posted by Loktofeit

FSZ, have you never purchased a concert shirt, sports jersey, movie action figure or live theater playbill? What about popcorn at the cinema?

Those are all tangible items, though. You can hold them in your hand and remind yourself they actually exist.

It's quite hard for many to justify paying money so that a visual representation of data can get sexy new undies. Especially at prices equal-to, or greater-than, what you would pay for the genuine article. If the prices suited the fact that it's all 'fictional' clothing, like 1-2$ a pop, people would be more inclined to buy, and not only that, they would likely make bulk purchases equal to what would normally be spent on this kind of stuff.

ET3D

Originally posted by Loktofeit

There's an interesting view presented in these posts that basically say every other fan or hobbyist (other than them, of course) is stupid and is easily manipulated by 'suits' that come up with nefarious psychological schemes to get people to buy what they don't want.

That's the internet for you. It's well known that anyone who uses Windows is an idiot, as well as anyone who uses a Mac or any other Apple product, or doesn't accept the greatness of AMD CPU's or that NVIDIA is the only company whose graphics products are worth buying. In short, a large number of people believe that anyone who likes other things has a serious mental problem, probably as a result of brainwashing.