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"The ultraviolence has to stop. We have to stop loving it" Warren Spector

StrangeEyesStrangeEyes Member Posts: 119
in General Gaming

I agree for most part with his statement about violence and silly way we look at sex in games. It has gone way to far these days in many games thats a fact.

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-14-warren-spector-the-ultraviolence-has-to-stop

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Comments

  • korat102korat102 Member Posts: 313

    The games industry is today's scapegoat for society's problems. It used to be the movie industry. Tomorrow, the control freaks willl find something else to whinge about.

  • TerronteTerronte Member Posts: 321
    Originally posted by korat102

    The games industry is today's scapegoat for society's problems. It used to be the movie industry. Tomorrow, the control freaks willl find something else to whinge about.

    That's a cop out. The majority of major studio games/"big ticket" games are over the top violent. At least with music/movies whatever other media you have there is a healthy mix of ideas and art. If you were to compare video games to movies it would be more akin to porn than Vertigo or even Clockwork Orange.

  • dronfwardronfwar Member Posts: 316

    what has to stop is businessmen talking about the game industry.

    I mean, who the fuck is this guy???

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345

    Vote for ultraviolence with your wallet. You get what you pay for. Team Ultraviolence loves you for it! Spend spend spend.

  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    I have been playing violent games for as long as I can remember....

    I have yet to go crazy and kill people.. infact its probally helped stop me from going crazy and killnig people LOL..

    at the end of the day it is a computer game if someone is messed up enough for it to affect their real world judgement then they are messed up simple as.. a crazy killer is a crazy killer computer games did to make them do it..

     

     

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566
    Originally posted by korat102

    The games industry is today's scapegoat for society's problems. It used to be the movie industry. Tomorrow, the control freaks willl find something else to whinge about.

    Yup.

    And before the movie industry it were cartoons and of course unsavory, youth corrupting music. Such as the Beatles. *shakes fist*

    Actual issues with real life violence have more to do with the availability of firearms in some countries and malfunctions in parenting, education and proper counseling to recognize and help young people who might become a problem for themselves and others.

    p.s. @ the OP: Sex in games a problem? In which games again? In my opinion 99% of the industry is avoiding having any in their games just to prevent tempting the rabbid Anti Porn lobby. Compared to violence, the amount of sex in games is astonishingly low in fact.

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254

    Here is some info you might like. There is not neccessarily a correlation, but it does say something.

     

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2221

     

    • In the last decade (since 2000) the homicide rate declined to levels last seen in the mid-1960s.
    •  
    • Based on data from 1980 and 2008, males represented 77% of homicide victims and nearly 90% of offenders. The victimization rate for males (11.6 per 100,000) was 3 times higher than the rate for females (3.4 per 100,000). The offending rate for males (15.1 per 100,000) was almost 9 times higher than the rate for females (1.7 per 100,000).
    •  
    • The average age of both offenders and victims increased slightly in recent years, yet remained lower than they were prior to the late 1980s.

     

    Here is a graph.

     

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Violent_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States.svg

     

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

  • TerronteTerronte Member Posts: 321
    Originally posted by colddog04

    Here is some info you might like. There is not neccessarily a correlation, but it does say something.

     

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2221

     

    • In the last decade (since 2000) the homicide rate declined to levels last seen in the mid-1960s.
    •  
    • Based on data from 1980 and 2008, males represented 77% of homicide victims and nearly 90% of offenders. The victimization rate for males (11.6 per 100,000) was 3 times higher than the rate for females (3.4 per 100,000). The offending rate for males (15.1 per 100,000) was almost 9 times higher than the rate for females (1.7 per 100,000).
    •  
    • The average age of both offenders and victims increased slightly in recent years, yet remained lower than they were prior to the late 1980s.

     

    Here is a graph.

     

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Violent_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States.svg

     

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

    Actually, if I recall from Freakonomics, the decrease in crime in general is due to the legalization of abortion.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566
    Originally posted by colddog04

    Here is some info you might like. There is not neccessarily a correlation, but it does say something.

     

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2221

     

    • In the last decade (since 2000) the homicide rate declined to levels last seen in the mid-1960s.
    •  
    • Based on data from 1980 and 2008, males represented 77% of homicide victims and nearly 90% of offenders. The victimization rate for males (11.6 per 100,000) was 3 times higher than the rate for females (3.4 per 100,000). The offending rate for males (15.1 per 100,000) was almost 9 times higher than the rate for females (1.7 per 100,000).
    •  
    • The average age of both offenders and victims increased slightly in recent years, yet remained lower than they were prior to the late 1980s.

     

    Here is a graph.

     

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Violent_Crime_Rates_in_the_United_States.svg

     

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

    ^_^

    Always nice to see someone drag facts into a discussion.

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  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566
    Originally posted by dronfwar

    what has to stop is businessmen talking about the game industry.

    I mean, who the fuck is this guy???

    Well, it's a guy that makes family friendly Disney themed games, so I guess he's preaching for his own parish.

    Or maybe he reasons: "If game violence gets banned my kind of games will sell much better." The selfish soab.

     

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  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by DarkPony
    Originally posted by dronfwar

    what has to stop is businessmen talking about the game industry.

    I mean, who the fuck is this guy???

    Well, it's a guy that makes family friendly Disney themed games, so I guess he's preaching for his own constitution.

    Or maybe he reasons: "If game violence gets banned my kind of games will sell much better." The selfish soab.

     


    but there is violance in his game.. look at the screenshot in the article... they are electrocuting that spider thing that has a missile launcher on its back... now that is violant.. and thats directed at children..

     

    basically tellnig kids its ok to play to electric especially when animals are involved..

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by DarkPony
    Originally posted by dronfwar

    what has to stop is businessmen talking about the game industry.

    I mean, who the fuck is this guy???

    Well, it's a guy that makes family friendly Disney themed games, so I guess he's preaching for his own constitution.

    Or maybe he reasons: "If game violence gets banned my kind of games will sell much better." The selfish soab.

     


    but there is violance in his game.. look at the screenshot in the article... they are electrocuting that spider thing that has a missile launcher on its back... now that is violant.. and thats directed at children..

     

    basically tellnig kids its ok to play to electric especially when animals are involved..

    Wow, yeah, makes it a huge hypocrit too.

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  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505

    check out the end of that vid looks pretty violent to me.. a massive dragon using massive saw blades to try and cut poor micky into little bits.. even tries to squash micky with a massive hammer..

     

    So its ok for kids to play with hammers and massive saw blades as well now..

     

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by DarkPony
    Originally posted by dronfwar

    what has to stop is businessmen talking about the game industry.

    I mean, who the fuck is this guy???

    Well, it's a guy that makes family friendly Disney themed games, so I guess he's preaching for his own parish.

    Or maybe he reasons: "If game violence gets banned my kind of games will sell much better." The selfish soab.

     

    Wow... Please tell me you're both being facetious.

    Not knowing who he is at all is surprising enough, but at least understandable. But even then... did either of you even take 10 seconds to try and look the guy up to see what he's *actually* done? I mean, it's not like we're connected to a massive online resource of information called the World Wide Web or anything.

    So, "who the fuck is this guy?"

    Well, here's a list of games he's worked on.

    You might recognize a couple or three..

    Also listed...

     

    Twenty-Six games, Two of which are Disney related. A rather blatant job of cherry-picking ya did there, DarkPony.

    Warren Spector is highly regarded in the industry. When he talks, people listen.

    "Who the fuck is this guy" indeed.

    That said, I will agree to his point to the degree that gratuitous violence for the sake of violence has gotten pretty ridiculous. It's become something of a gimmick to give more of a "wow" effect to otherwise mediocre games.

  • Lille7Lille7 Member Posts: 301
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by DarkPony
    Originally posted by dronfwar

    what has to stop is businessmen talking about the game industry.

    I mean, who the fuck is this guy???

    Well, it's a guy that makes family friendly Disney themed games, so I guess he's preaching for his own constitution.

    Or maybe he reasons: "If game violence gets banned my kind of games will sell much better." The selfish soab.

     


    but there is violance in his game.. look at the screenshot in the article... they are electrocuting that spider thing that has a missile launcher on its back... now that is violant.. and thats directed at children..

     

    basically tellnig kids its ok to play to electric especially when animals are involved..

    You're on a video game site and don't know who warren spector is?

    This is the guy behind games like Wing Commander and Deus Ex (the first Deus Ex), hes a game designer and not really a business man.

    Originally posted by Caldrin

    I have been playing violent games for as long as I can remember....

    I have yet to go crazy and kill people.. infact its probally helped stop me from going crazy and killnig people LOL..

    at the end of the day it is a computer game if someone is messed up enough for it to affect their real world judgement then they are messed up simple as.. a crazy killer is a crazy killer computer games did to make them do it..


    Thats not what the article is about, if you read it you would know. He doesn't think violence is bad, it's just that violence for violence sake is bad, violence to get you excited is bad, and new games are exactly like the previous title just MORE violent.

  • pierthpierth Member UncommonPosts: 1,494

    Originally posted by Caldrin
    I have been playing violent games for as long as I can remember....I have yet to go crazy and kill people.. infact its probally helped stop me from going crazy and killnig people LOL..at the end of the day it is a computer game if someone is messed up enough for it to affect their real world judgement then they are messed up simple as.. a crazy killer is a crazy killer computer games did to make them do it...

    Reminds me of something Stephen King wrote

    Originally written by Stephen King
    The mythic horror movie, like the sick joke, has a dirty job to do. It deliberately
    appeals to all that is worst in us. It is morbidity unchained, our most base instincts let
    free, our nastiest fantasies realized . . . and it all happens, fittingly enough, in the dark.
    For those reasons, good liberals often shy away from horror films. For myself, I like to
    see the most aggressive of them – Dawn of the Dead, for instance – as lifting a trap door
    in the civilized forebrain and throwing a basket of raw meat to the hungry alligators
    swimming around in that subterranean river beneath.
    Why bother? Because it keeps them from getting out, man. It keeps them down
    there and me up here.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by Terronte

    Actually, if I recall from Freakonomics, the decrease in crime in general is due to the legalization of abortion.

    Yeah, I've read about that.. it seems like a while back. I think maybe even before crime had such a significant continuous drop. Umm.. here is some stuff from wikipedia about it.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect

    In 2005, Christopher Foote and Christopher Goetz claimed that a computer error in Levitt and Donahue's statistical analysis lead to an artificially inflated relationship between legalized abortion and crime reduction. Once other crime-associated factors were properly controlled for, the effect of abortion on arrests was reduced by about half. Foote and Goetz also criticize Levitt and Donahue's use of arrest totals rather than arrests per capita, which takes population size into account. Using Census Bureau population estimates, Foote and Goetz repeated the analysis using arrest rates in place of simple arrest totals, and found that the effect of abortion disappeared entirely.[6]jferg

     

    Later Levitt published a rebuttal on Freakanomics about it. Is there a possible contribution from abortion? Probably. But he overexaggerated his numbers the first time through a computer error, used flat numbers instead of rates that would adjust for population differences and then later offered a rebuttal only showing, at best, a correlation through statistics.

    http://www.freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/j

     

    To me he just sounds defensive in hs rebuttal and desn

  • skydiver12skydiver12 Member Posts: 432

    The question remains what he is considering ultra- to "normal" violence.
    Takedowns in Deus Ex 2001 sure haven't been "normal" hell the game was 18+ in my country back then.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Lille7

     

    You're on a video game site and don't know who warren spector is?

    LOL. Seriously.

    That was pretty much my first thought.

    "This guy's kidding, right?"

     

  • syntax42syntax42 Member UncommonPosts: 1,378
    Originally posted by colddog04

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

    This is a fallacy.  Drawing a conclusion on two unrelated events is just a way to ignore reality.  It's like saying the potatoes in Idaho grew, so my corn in Indiana will grow too.  Both events may happen, but one does not necessarily affect the other.  A very thorough study would need to be conducted in order to prove your theory.

     

    I enjoy violent games.  However, I do think some games take it too far.  When it becomes a contest of which game can be the most violent, it gets a little disturbing.  Violence has its place in video games, and it should not go far beyond what it takes to make a good story.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534

    i dont agree.

    i can differ between games and reality, that's the whole point of a game.

     

    if games are just like mario, i wouldn't play em.

     

    don't get me wrong, in RL i am quite pacifistic, but not in games.

    that's the whjole point of gaming. have an alternate reality.

     

     

     

    wing commander, system shock, dx. they all would have failed if they didn't have the feature to kill your enemies.

    i am FAR beyond the age of mickey mouse, and even when i was a kid, i never really like that mouse, donald always was WAY cooler.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by colddog04

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

    This is a fallacy.  Drawing a conclusion on two unrelated events is just a way to ignore reality.  It's like saying the potatoes in Idaho grew, so my corn in Indiana will grow too.  Both events may happen, but one does not necessarily affect the other.  A very thorough study would need to be conducted in order to prove your theory.

     

    I enjoy violent games.  However, I do think some games take it too far.  When it becomes a contest of which game can be the most violent, it gets a little disturbing.  Violence has its place in video games, and it should not go far beyond what it takes to make a good story.

    If I were to interpret what I wrote as you did, it is a fallacy.

     

    But I want to be clear that I did not say that violent games caused a drop or increase in violence. All I said was that violence has been going down overall during the same time that violence in video games has increased. I even made it a point in my post (a part you conveniently left out) to mention, "There is not neccessarily a correlation, but it does say something."

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by Thane

    i dont agree.

    i can differ between games and reality, that's the whole point of a game.

     

    if games are just like mario, i wouldn't play em.

     

    don't get me wrong, in RL i am quite pacifistic, but not in games.

    that's the whjole point of gaming. have an alternate reality.

     

     

     

    wing commander, system shock, dx. they all would have failed if they didn't have the feature to kill your enemies.

    i am FAR beyond the age of mickey mouse, and even when i was a kid, i never really like that mouse, donald always was WAY cooler.

    Yeah, who knows, maybe it is even healthy to embrace your darker side so that it isn't used where it matters.  Maybe getting out ones aggressions inside a game is far better than getting grumpy in real life.  Arguably much better to get out aggressions inside a game than smoking or drinking. 

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by colddog04

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

    This is a fallacy.  Drawing a conclusion on two unrelated events is just a way to ignore reality.  It's like saying the potatoes in Idaho grew, so my corn in Indiana will grow too.  Both events may happen, but one does not necessarily affect the other.  A very thorough study would need to be conducted in order to prove your theory.

     

    I enjoy violent games.  However, I do think some games take it too far.  When it becomes a contest of which game can be the most violent, it gets a little disturbing.  Violence has its place in video games, and it should not go far beyond what it takes to make a good story.

    If I were to interpret what I wrote as you did, it is a fallacy.

     

    But I want to be clear that I did not say that violent games caused a drop or increase in violence. All I said was that violence has been going down overall during the same time that violence in video games has increased. I even made it a point in my post (a part you conveniently left out) to mention, "There is not neccessarily a correlation, but it does say something."

    So, what is that "does say something"? What does it say?

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by colddog04

    It looks to me like since games became violent, violent crime rates have decreased overall. Not only that, but all crime rates have been going down for almost 15 years. If video games ARE making us more violent, then some other unkown is helping to pacify the violence.

    This is a fallacy.  Drawing a conclusion on two unrelated events is just a way to ignore reality.  It's like saying the potatoes in Idaho grew, so my corn in Indiana will grow too.  Both events may happen, but one does not necessarily affect the other.  A very thorough study would need to be conducted in order to prove your theory.

     

    I enjoy violent games.  However, I do think some games take it too far.  When it becomes a contest of which game can be the most violent, it gets a little disturbing.  Violence has its place in video games, and it should not go far beyond what it takes to make a good story.

    If I were to interpret what I wrote as you did, it is a fallacy.

     

    But I want to be clear that I did not say that violent games caused a drop or increase in violence. All I said was that violence has been going down overall during the same time that violence in video games has increased. I even made it a point in my post (a part you conveniently left out) to mention, "There is not neccessarily a correlation, but it does say something."

    So, what is that "does say something"? What does it say?

    That crime has gone down during the same time period that video game violence has increased.

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