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Klingon Starbase Screenshots
Rohn
Member UncommonPosts: 3,730
Cryptic added a screenshot of one of the new KDF starbases due to be available with Season 6.
http://www.startrekonline.com/gallery
In the forum, Branflakes added links to a few more pictures, one from each of the 5 tiers. He also went on to say that details about the implementation of starbases will be released sometime early this week.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=4240807&postcount=20
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Comments
Cannot say I find this to be impressive at all. You can tell this tiered system is already a failure.
I would bet small, casual fleets will not be able to afford the larger tiered bases which will in turn hurt their ability to recruit new people. Guaranteed these will cost huge sums of Dilithium, Lobi or whatever other garbage currency Cryptic dreams up to pay for them, leading to fleets recruiting folks to work as "mules" rather than genuinely wanting to grow their fleet.
EDIT: Looks like I was right... http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/04/captains-log-an-exclusive-look-at-stos-season-six-starbases/
Some key excerpts to focus on;
"Fleet advancement has been designed for fleets of all sizes, although there will exist "advantages and disadvantages depending on the size of [the] fleet's membership."
Meaning large fleets will have a clear advantage over smaller ones.
According to Cryptic, starbase development will involve several steps:
This is essentially what Cryptic tried in City of Heroes when they released bases along with City of Villains. It did not work there and this is not going to work here.
Also, item 1 is exactly what I was referring to with fleets recruiting "mules".
Why do small or casual fleets deserve to be on par with larger or more active fleets?
MMOs are supposed to be games in which the community matters. I realize that in most cases these days, that's not the case, but it should be. I've seen an absolute ton of complaints about the "everyone's a winner" mentality pervading today's games, or games that cater to solo or casual players so much that there's no depth left for the more serious player.
Overall, I agree with those complaints.
In just about every game in which a guild/fleet/corps actually matters (there are few that truly fit this category), small, casual organizations are almost always at a disadvantage compared to large guilds/fleets/coprs regarding the resources from which they can draw. As far as I'm concerned, that's the way it should be.
Players are not assigned to fleets, they choose them according to how they want to play. Like everything in life, choices have consequences.
We still don't know all the mechanics, but from the info we have so far, small fleets are not necessarily procluded from building larger bases, but it will likely take them a lot longer. That's not a problem, that's how it should be, and is a consequence of the choice to play in a small fleet, or being a casual player.
Bottom line: Small fleets will be able to participate in fleet content in Season 6. Small fleets aren't going to be on par with large fleets with regard to resources, nor should they be, overdeveloped senses of entitlement notwithstanding.
Dan Stahl gives some confirmation here in the Supplemental Log on Massively.com from today:
Massively: "Making fleets a more central and fundamental part of the Star Trek Onlineexperience" will probably sound a bit foreboding to players who do not currently belong to a fleet or are in a small one. Will this game be turning away from play that will interest them, or will they feel pressured into either joining a fleet or larger fleet just so they can continue to play?
Daniel Stahl: It is not our intention that endgame be based solely around fleets. That said, whether players are in a fleet of one or 500, we hope that they will find something to enjoy about the new fleet system. Some of the missions in Season Six are specifically designed to be played by fleets, but all players will have access to them either through invites or through personal queues. In addition, there are several new missions that are open to all max-level players to play whether they are in a fleet or not. As we move into future seasons, you will see us continue to expand the fleet system while also introducing more gameplay focused on solo gameplay.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/04/captains-log-supplemental-an-exclusive-interview-with-stos-da/
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
How is this any different than games like EVE Online Stations, Age of Conan player Cities and EverQuest 2 Guild Halls?
It gives fleets something to work towards to, together.
It won't be impossible for smaller fleets! Sure it will take longer, but it will be possible!
Small groups are part of the community too, therefore they matter. They matter just as much as the larger groups do to the overall health of a game. The whole concept of "bigger is better" failed in Cryptic's previous attempt with "group content" like bases in City of Villains. STO is not going to be any different.
The failure had already begun when the Cryptic folk (forget who it was in specific) first mentioned starbases "could cost 500 million EC or more". This was just a passing comment about some early level discussions and far before any real work had begun on bases. What did you see in game? Fleets recruiting "mules" and adding a "membership dues/tax" that had to be paid daily/weekly/monthly or you would get kicked from the group.
Be prepared for this to get much worse in STO now.
It's not any different, but it's being propped up here as some sort of aberration.
Small casual guilds aren't prohibited from the content, but it's going to take them a lot longer given their playstyle choice. There's nothing wrong with it.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Ignoring for a second that the idea of "fleets" and where Cryptic is taking this makes zero sense in the Star Trek canon (aren't the Federation and KDF already fleets? can my fleet just do whatever the hell it wants and create its own Prime Directive?), I suspected that it was set up this way in order to encourage the small guilds to buy their way to completion through the C-store anyway.
Or maybe I'll be able to buy a ticket in the C-store which will enable me to spin the Wheel O'Fleets to get a 9% chance of winning the resources.
So if it were to take the small fleets years to obtain what a large fleet can in months, that is acceptable? I think not.
You are kidding yourselves if you believe this will be anything but another drawn out, overly repetitive grind.
In EVE Online it's easy to establish souvereignity and build your own Station?
In Age of Conan it's easy to build a Player City and Upgrade it all the way to the highest tier?
In EverQuest 2 it's easy to buy a Tier 3 Guild Hall and maintain it?
In Vanguard: Saga of Heroes it's easy to buy a plot and build a Guildhall and maintain it?
Or what about the guild leveling system in WoW, EQ2, Rift, etc? Any idea how long it takes for a casual guild to get to max guild Level in WoW or EQ2 for instance?
/sigh everything in MMO's is a grind one way or the other. So who is kidding who? It's just fact! Nothing New!
The majority of players are member of large and/or established Guilds!
If they start building content to cater to the smallest/casual Guilds, then they are trivializing it for the majority of People!
In case of STO, it would mean that most established fleets will have Tier 4 starbases within days lol. Why even bothering with different tiers then?
If you whiners actually bothered Reading the dev blogs. The reason of the different Tiers is to cater towards fleets of different sizes!What is the point of having a huge Tier 4 starbase as a tiny casual fleet?
Same in EverQuest 2. Lots and lots of smaller casual Guilds are perfectly happy With their more cosy Tier 1 guild halls. They have no need for the huge and expensive Tier 3 guild hall! Same goes for player cities in Age of Conan.
Tjeez!
"Grind" is in the eye of the beholder.
No, I don't think that all players are entitled to the same reward, or same rate of reward, no matter how much or how little they play. Different rates of advancement for different playstyles is not only acceptable, it should be expected.
Game developers catering to that instant-gratification, "everyone's a special snowflake" mentality has been the bane of MMO design for the last several years.
I've seen STO criticized for being too "solo-oriented". Now they'll be criticized for content that isn't solo-oriented. Just goes to show how disingenuous some criticism can be. It's a no-win scenario.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Hey, if you feel that running the Elite STFs thousands of times on the off chance you might get a drop to get a gear set is not a grind, more power to you. Safe bet that Starbases are going to be a similar level of effort. Who knows? Maybe they will offer Tier 5 bases in a lockbox?
Not everyone needs to lord their in-game goodies over others.
So they finally, after three years since release , are adding guild halls ! Wow, count me as excited. /sarcasmoff
The whole debate about the grind , i'm sorry to say, is nonsensical. To build a GH requires a group effort and expense, it's a given and expected. I see nothing wrong with it . What I will find fault with will be the cynical nature and way, Cryptic structures the grind and how they plan to exploit the grind to profit.
I'm sure PWE owners in china have a company on the side expressly devoted to supplying dumb westerns virtual items and products to play games. AKA gold farmers. The system, from what i'm seeing, is taylor made for the gold farmers to exploit the populace. ( yes it's conjecture, but remember China operates under a very different set of rules then the west ) Keep in mind also ,China has the largest/fastest growing group of millionaires/billionaires in the world and most serve or are affiliated with the government.
I see the system being set up in which gold farmers are an integral part of the game experience in STO. Also if you read the interview with Dstahl , he uses the term " may " an aweful lot. More then I'm comfortable with , when describing the resources and items needed to construct these monstrousities. Interestingly , they are releasing a Klingon GH , yet there's no Klingon content . Cart meet horse , now push .
It looks like there will be a variety of actions, currencies, and items required for fleet advancement, which isn't completely known at this point.
Besides, it's a F2P game, not a charity.
But I do agree, there's nothing wrong with requiring a group effort to achieve group-based goals. In an MMO, it should be expected. Hell, it should be desired in an MMO.
They've answered a few questions about this system on the official forum:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=4244319&postcount=124
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
No one said otherwise. The caution is in what size group they are targetting for these. A fleet of 2 or 3 people is a group, just as a fleet of 500 or more. Should these be designed for the latter when the majority of fleets are small in roster, Cryptic made a design mistake.
This is essentially what happened with Supergroup bases in City of Heroes.
I have to give Cryptic credit they talk a great game , but as has been their habit they fail to deliver .
I expect as much from this forray. ShardWarrior is correct. It isn't only that they are recycling things that they've done in previous games , it's that they implement them with the same problems and mistakes. Why, because they modified the CoX engine they were using. Expect twhat ShardWarrior says to come to pass. I'm not sure who to blame any more , regardless the company is ultimately at fault, which I guess is collective. Saddled with poor engine , horrible MMO design decisions and an utter lack of imagination when it comes to mechanics for a game. They just need to drop all pretenses and call this game CoH/V 2 in Space, Retread.