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Will it be revelutionary or just another MMO

Just wondering what everyone thinks. After reading the interviews it seems like this game could be adding a lot of new elments that we've never seen and could greatly enhance the MMO experience. Or could it just be another MMO doomed the same fate? I'm not giving an opinionc ause i don't really have on yet. I'm just curious what everyone else thinks

Comments

  • VertisVertis Member Posts: 5

    I think Vanguard's strong points are going to be many.

    First, it's not trying to be a game for any and all players, and if you read the FAQ for the game ... they make that perfectly clear. It's going to be hard. It's going to be challenging. It is not making any effort to coddle players and smooth the path to higher levels. There will be CRs, there won't be easy methods of mass long distance travel, probably a complete lack of any form of off-line advancement, little to no instancing, and death will have potentially severe consequences. All the things that have dumbed down the current crop of MMOGs to the point of making their longevity questionable because they are just too easy.

    Second, the Dev Team has worked together for quite some time for the most part. Most of the key members from EQ1 are on board. They know the mistakes they made in the past, have watched the mistakes made by others and have a pretty clear vision of what they want to achieve. Having been together for so long means that the dev process can operate much smoother.

    Third, they are unlikely to bend very far from their vision based on forum pressure. Will they listen to the playerbase? Sure. Will they go to pieces (rather like SWG) under pressure? Absolutely not. They will keep their design philosophies intact.

    There are now a ton of MMOGs out there that attempt to be all things to all players. I find these games sacrifice complexity and quality of design and gameplay to appeal to every gameplay style. For those who want easy advancement and rapid ascension to higher levels ... Vanguard is probably not going to be a game they will enjoy. While I doubt revolutionary will be a term used to describe Vanguard, it is going to appeal to those of us who want the challenge put back into MMOGs.

  • TaisharTaishar Member Posts: 13
    I think we all know how it is, it's gonna be good, nothing "ground breaking," just good. I think most games don't have enough customization, items, weapons, and armor wise, the first game that does a good job of changing that will have my applause.
  • KaneKane Member Posts: 780

    If they can follow through on their design decisions (primarily making all parts of the game FUN instead of making them EASY or just plain BORING...see travel in most MMORPGs) it could be a solid game. I'm really hoping for a good tutorial as well as I feel thats the biggest hurdle to getting people really into a game. If you can't figure out what your doing in the first few levels/hours, you probably will not be a long time player.

  • Billius8Billius8 Member Posts: 574

    A lot of players waiting for Vanguard don't want "revolutionary" as much as they want a vamped-up EQ1-like world and gaming experience. Taking old concepts which worked, adding in a couple of new ones and making the overall graphics package better should pretty much fit the bill.

  • SkarsTZSkarsTZ Member Posts: 78


    Originally posted by Billius8
    A lot of players waiting for Vanguard don't want "revolutionary" as much as they want a vamped-up EQ1-like world and gaming experience. Taking old concepts which worked, adding in a couple of new ones and making the overall graphics package better should pretty much fit the bill.

    Bingo (for my case). I love(d) EQ and if they could make something to rival the best times I had on EQ it will be worth every cent for me.

    My favourite part of the whole FAQ is where Brad states that he dislikes how more recent games have "thrown out the baby with the bathwater." There are definately things in EQ that i didn't like and I would much prefer things to be tweaked slightly and improved rather than done away with alltogether.

  • AdrenalNAdrenalN Member Posts: 28

    Craftable player owned boats.
    Craftable houses that can be attacked by mobs if your not carefull where you build.
    Horsed and other mounts that have there own armor slots.
    Group Crafting. Maybe raid crafting? Raid crafting a Castle/ship etc?

    These are a couple of things I've heard of on the official forums that make me think they may have some revolutionary stuff under wraps.

  • MunkaMunka Member UncommonPosts: 252

    I have little to no faith left in MMORPG's. It all sounds great on paper, and in a FAQ but when it comes down to it and the final product, we'll have to see then if VSH will be any good.

  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    Also, as other people have mentioned, we've held back on releasing a lot of information that I think will really make Vanguard stand out and truly be a third generation game.  But the time for holding back, now that EQ 2 and WoW are out and people have played them both quite a bit, is coming to an end.  Look for a LOT of information about Vanguard to come out at E3 and around the E3 period, both on the official site and on major games oriented web pages and in print magazines.  I think many of you, if you're not already excited about the game, will become extremely excited once the floodgates are open.

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • stav1stav1 Member Posts: 282



    Originally posted by Aradune
    Also, as other people have mentioned, we've held back on releasing a lot of information that I think will really make Vanguard stand out and truly be a third generation game.  But the time for holding back, now that EQ 2 and WoW are out and people have played them both quite a bit, is coming to an end.  Look for a LOT of information about Vanguard to come out at E3 and around the E3 period, both on the official site and on major games oriented web pages and in print magazines.  I think many of you, if you're not already excited about the game, will become extremely excited once the floodgates are open.


    Not if you give us a first generation mmorpg concept like level grind +raiding for uber items.

    First game to break that mould will make millions and earn the respect of the whole mmorpg community.

    I think the whole concept of Vanguard is doing the industry a disservice (unless you have something really innovative under your hat). Bring on the flames.

  • StaunchStaunch Member Posts: 19



    Originally posted by stav1

    First game to break that mould will make millions and earn the respect of the whole mmorpg community.
    I think the whole concept of Vanguard is doing the industry a disservice (unless you have something really innovative under your hat). Bring on the flames.



    I will formally disagree with you, hopefully without comming across as flaming.  First off. I am a casual gamer. 90% of my time in WoW is spent soloing. In fact, only time I do join a group is for PVP vs Alliance or the less than often instanced raid I go on.  I still hit 60 in less than 2 months. My verdict:

    I miss the old days.

     Maybe third generation is a return to the core of why we play these games.  The grind I really miss now and some of the frustration that came with it.  I personally enjoyed having to work at getting what I wanted.  I remember getting my first fbss ten hours after I had started in the group in lguk(prekunark).  It was if I had found real gold.  Years later it still is a experience that has not been duplicated. Mimiced but not duplicated.  Much in my opinion to the fact games have become or been made much easier . 

    Personally, I do not want to spend money every month for a game that has been made to catered to my casual playing style.  It does not make sense.  It gives me the idea that there will truly nothing epic to look forward to or at least nothing about the game to fear; nothing for me to actually spend time in a game to get something that I truly want.

    The mold for the grind/raid was broken a long time ago.  All that remains pretty much is a sheep masquerading as a wolf.  Leveling is easy or simplified, raiding is a shadow of its former self.  I think in the end more people would respect a game that does not cater, but it is a world unto itself that people must adapt to instead of being able to just defeat it in a couple months and move on.

    Simply I just want a reason to spend time in a mmorpg again. Vanguard seems to be it.  Sure I am a "fanboi" at present and have followed it since it was just known as "Sigilquest", and maybe I truly am the minority in my thinking.  In the end, "Vanguard" has been the only game I have looked forward to MMO in a long time.  With its release, I am sure will decide wether or not the game will be accepted by the general mmorpg community. 

    My guess is it will be overwhelming image

     

     

  • stav1stav1 Member Posts: 282

    Staunch-

    I agree with you. I don't play WoW its too dumbed down for me, there is no challenge.

    But i would like to see mmopgs evolve away from raiding/uber loot/levelling.

    What i want is a virtual world where we can do things which we can't do in the real world.

    Maybe i'm being harsh on Sigil. I think they know how to get a raiding/uber loot/levelling game right. I guess i'm disapointed there's no real innovation but that would require a creative spark to rewrite the fundamentals of mmorpg design whch they probably don't posses.

  • StaunchStaunch Member Posts: 19

    Stav1-

    I understand you about wanting a truly virtual world, but I think at present most are still in the mindset of leveling/raiding = progress(this includes me, I know I know I just cant help it).

    One thing I have noticed about Sigil Games is they have always been open to constructive criticism.  Sure some people will flame  others might agree with you. Input is input.  There is always room to disagree.  I was one of the lucky ones who had the opportunity to see it last year.  It has spark, pizzaz, and a dash of mojo.

    This will be the big year at E3 for Vanguard.  A wealth of information will be released and more of the game will be known.  Just keep an open mind you might be suprised what exactly all Sigil Games will have in store for us.

  • iam99xiam99x Member Posts: 2


    Originally posted by Aradune
    Also, as other people have mentioned, we've held back on releasing a lot of information that I think will really make Vanguard stand out and truly be a third generation game. But the time for holding back, now that EQ 2 and WoW are out and people have played them both quite a bit, is coming to an end. Look for a LOT of information about Vanguard to come out at E3 and around the E3 period, both on the official site and on major games oriented web pages and in print magazines. I think many of you, if you're not already excited about the game, will become extremely excited once the floodgates are open.

    Oh man, I'm so excited!

    The official site seems to be down right now... which is probably why I'm here instead of there... so my guess is they are currently updating it! Whoooh!

    Hopefully we get a taste of some of that "secret sauce" soon!

  • SkarsTZSkarsTZ Member Posts: 78

    I think you are mistaken :(

  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294

    I think we do have some really innovative ideas, many of which we've been keeping underwraps.

    But no, Vanguard is not about fundamentally re-designing what we feel makes MMOGs work.  Does this mean we lack the innovation and ideas to do so?  *shrug*  Perhaps we do and one day an MMOG will come out that is truly a radical paradigm shift and sets a truly new standard.  That's not really our goal right now, especially with Vanguard.  After Vanguard? Who knows :)

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • SkarsTZSkarsTZ Member Posts: 78


    Originally posted by Aradune
    I think we do have some really innovative ideas, many of which we've been keeping underwraps.
    But no, Vanguard is not about fundamentally re-designing what we feel makes MMOGs work. Does this mean we lack the innovation and ideas to do so? *shrug* Perhaps we do and one day an MMOG will come out that is truly a radical paradigm shift and sets a truly new standard. That's not really our goal right now, especially with Vanguard. After Vanguard? Who knows :)

    Good to hear Imo Brad. I can't wait to see the new stuff you are going to release as Vanguard sounds great already. I look forward to playing and enjoying your world you are creating.

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,611

    Vanguard looks to be just another factory produced MMO that in the end does nothing new or special or unique.

    Vanguard wants you to think it's a "third generation" MMORPG but it seems like it's more stuck in the old days of needlessly complex time sinks that go no where.

    People call WoW "dumbed down" but I call it "stream lined". It got rid of the crap that was keeping MMOs down but Vanguard wants to bring that all back and most likely with disasterous results.

    Quite frankly I'm glad the days of week long level grinding, spawn camping, farming and quest repeating are over with.

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194


    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Quite frankly I'm glad the days of week long level grinding, spawn camping, farming and quest repeating are over with.

    That s your opinion.
    My opinion is that the market is missing a game EQ alike.
    Surely I am missing it.

    While you can play and enjoy WoW, people like me is forced to change MMO every month trying to find a suitable game to play.
    Unfortunately there is none around.

    People keeps saying that the market is full of EQ clones.
    I tend to disagree.
    The market is full of bad imitation of EQ.
    Hopefully Vanguard will bring back the magic of EQ, producing a game that has the old appeal of EQ but with an eye to modern gameplay and some new features.
    That should do the trick.

    A game doesn't necessarily need to be too innovative to entertain you, in my personal wish list, innovation comes last, whilst fun comes first. ::::20::

  • SkarsTZSkarsTZ Member Posts: 78


    Originally posted by Xiaoki
    Vanguard looks to be just another factory produced MMO that in the end does nothing new or special or unique.
    Vanguard wants you to think it's a "third generation" MMORPG but it seems like it's more stuck in the old days of needlessly complex time sinks that go no where.
    People call WoW "dumbed down" but I call it "stream lined". It got rid of the crap that was keeping MMOs down but Vanguard wants to bring that all back and most likely with disasterous results.
    Quite frankly I'm glad the days of week long level grinding, spawn camping, farming and quest repeating are over with.

    Well I want to play Vanguard as well so I guess there is more than 1 person willing to play.

    I don't understand why people come to the forums of a game and trash it. I don't go to the WoW forums and talk about how WoW is a easy simplified babies version of an MMORPG that is designed for 14 yr old bnetters and CS players with all the gameplay depth of quake.

  • HymeraHymera Member Posts: 1


    Originally posted by SkarsTZ
    Originally posted by Xiaoki
    Vanguard looks to be just another factory produced MMO that in the end does nothing new or special or unique.
    Vanguard wants you to think it's a "third generation" MMORPG but it seems like it's more stuck in the old days of needlessly complex time sinks that go no where.
    People call WoW "dumbed down" but I call it "stream lined". It got rid of the crap that was keeping MMOs down but Vanguard wants to bring that all back and most likely with disasterous results.
    Quite frankly I'm glad the days of week long level grinding, spawn camping, farming and quest repeating are over with.

    Well I want to play Vanguard as well so I guess there is more than 1 person willing to play.

    I don't understand why people come to the forums of a game and trash it. I don't go to the WoW forums and talk about how WoW is a easy simplified babies version of an MMORPG that is designed for 14 yr old bnetters and CS players with all the gameplay depth of quake.


    lol nice :). Im kept this point ever about wow, and strongly hope what Vanguard will be more hardly and depthly than many and many today's games, game-notforoneweek. And waiting with impatience start of open-beta and release.
    Think it will great game, really 3-gen mmog, if dev teams making all their promisses.

  • LaneoLaneo Member Posts: 359



    Originally posted by Vertis

    I think Vanguard's strong points are going to be many.
    First, it's not trying to be a game for any and all players, and if you read the FAQ for the game ... they make that perfectly clear. It's going to be hard. It's going to be challenging. It is not making any effort to coddle players and smooth the path to higher levels. There will be CRs, there won't be easy methods of mass long distance travel, probably a complete lack of any form of off-line advancement, little to no instancing, and death will have potentially severe consequences. All the things that have dumbed down the current crop of MMOGs to the point of making their longevity questionable because they are just too easy.
    Second, the Dev Team has worked together for quite some time for the most part. Most of the key members from EQ1 are on board. They know the mistakes they made in the past, have watched the mistakes made by others and have a pretty clear vision of what they want to achieve. Having been together for so long means that the dev process can operate much smoother.
    Third, they are unlikely to bend very far from their vision based on forum pressure. Will they listen to the playerbase? Sure. Will they go to pieces (rather like SWG) under pressure? Absolutely not. They will keep their design philosophies intact.
    There are now a ton of MMOGs out there that attempt to be all things to all players. I find these games sacrifice complexity and quality of design and gameplay to appeal to every gameplay style. For those who want easy advancement and rapid ascension to higher levels ... Vanguard is probably not going to be a game they will enjoy. While I doubt revolutionary will be a term used to describe Vanguard, it is going to appeal to those of us who want the challenge put back into MMOGs.



    You explained it the way it is!

    I could not have said it better myself..but I will also add..

    I'm tired of people who want the "I WIN" button style of play. I hope VG (Vanguard) will piss you off and make you leave if you dont like it. I hope they dont cater to whiners (And I mean the ones that want changes made to their personnal beliefs) because they are the reason the MMO's today are falling off the curb. image

    I do believe that the Adult (21+) community outweighs the minors in MMO's yet all the games cater to the "Kiddies" (There are a few that act mature) and take away the challenge that maybe Veterans and newbies alike want in an MMO.image

    You want easy goto the mall and play Ms Pac Man or something like that.

    I'm tired of people whining on forums about their class/skill ect being to hard or others not a challenge! (Learn the F***ing Class)..this is another topic!

    Vanguard....Bring back the times where it takes more than a day to make a level, Bring back the CR's that piss people off, bring back the real grinding.

    Dont cater to the people that want the easy way out because no matter if they leave, you will still get players that would rather have a challenge.

    True fans of MMO's want to play the game...True fans of the "I WIN" button want the game to play them!!!

    PS. Developers (MMO market) also need to start catering to the playerbase (Adults) that more than likely are willing to pay a fee than worry about an 13+ ESRB rating because parents (That may NOT pay for an MMO) that may or may not get involved in this genre and therefore lowering the income potential.

    Get that M rating for once in your lives for a Fantasy MMORPG with the blood,guts,nudity (No Porn stuff thou). Funny how parents do buy the M rated titles for Xbox/PS2. Whats wrong with MMOs on PC's???

    NOTHING!!!!

    I guarantee you that your M rated Fanbase is bigger than your T based fanbase and you cant tell me that those Teen's dont have an M title somewhere in their gaming collection!

    Want a revolutionary game? Give it an ESRB rated "M", Give it Blood, violence, nudity...but also keep it within the confines of YOUR vision. THAT will draw crouds. but hey..you dont have to listen to one longtime gamer here...You can always listen to those that are just starting to get their feet wet in this genre and have no experience whatsoever other than from the "Toned Downed" MMOs that they had no choice to learn with because they weren't born yet when the REAL MMOS ruled the NET!!

    I'm done here.

    (Flames expected and invited here)

    Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015


    Originally posted by Laneo
    You explained it the way it is!
    I could not have said it better myself..but I will also add..
    I'm tired of people who want the "I WIN" button style of play. I hope VG (Vanguard) will piss you off and make you leave if you dont like it. I hope they dont cater to whiners (And I mean the ones that want changes made to their personnal beliefs) because they are the reason the MMO's today are falling off the curb. image
    I do believe that the Adult (21+) community outweighs the minors in MMO's yet all the games cater to the "Kiddies" (There are a few that act mature) and take away the challenge that maybe Veterans and newbies alike want in an MMO.image
    You want easy goto the mall and play Ms Pac Man or something like that.
    I'm tired of people whining on forums about their class/skill ect being to hard or others not a challenge! (Learn the F***ing Class)..this is another topic!
    Vanguard....Bring back the times where it takes more than a day to make a level, Bring back the CR's that piss people off, bring back the real grinding.
    Dont cater to the people that want the easy way out because no matter if they leave, you will still get players that would rather have a challenge.
    True fans of MMO's want to play the game...True fans of the "I WIN" button want the game to play them!!!
    PS. Developers (MMO market) also need to start catering to the playerbase (Adults) that more than likely are willing to pay a fee than worry about an 13+ ESRB rating because parents (That may NOT pay for an MMO) that may or may not get involved in this genre and therefore lowering the income potential.
    Get that M rating for once in your lives for a Fantasy MMORPG with the blood,guts,nudity (No Porn stuff thou). Funny how parents do buy the M rated titles for Xbox/PS2. Whats wrong with MMOs on PC's???
    NOTHING!!!!
    I guarantee you that your M rated Fanbase is bigger than your T based fanbase and you cant tell me that those Teen's dont have an M title somewhere in their gaming collection!
    Want a revolutionary game? Give it an ESRB rated "M", Give it Blood, violence, nudity...but also keep it within the confines of YOUR vision. THAT will draw crouds. but hey..you dont have to listen to one longtime gamer here...You can always listen to those that are just starting to get their feet wet in this genre and have no experience whatsoever other than from the "Toned Downed" MMOs that they had no choice to learn with because they weren't born yet when the REAL MMOS ruled the NET!!
    I'm done here.
    (Flames expected and invited here)

    I hate to break it to you, but the "I WIN" crowd has always been around, and Vanguard isn't going to make it go away, either. You seem to think that Vanguard is going to be entirely comprised of mature, 21+ gamers who will accept the game given to them upon release.

    Rest assured, when Vanguard comes out, the forums will be flooded with people whining over this and that, and mark my words, the devs will listen to some of those gripes and make changes to the game (whether it is in line with what they originally had in mind or not). This is a common fault of MMO's, and although devs can promise whatever they want before a game's release, don't kid yourself into thinking Vanguard will be immune to stuff like this. Sadly, the vocal minority always seems to get their way in the end.

  • paltpalt Member Posts: 4



    Originally posted by Vertis

    I think Vanguard's strong points are going to be many.
    First, it's not trying to be a game for any and all players, and if you read the FAQ for the game ... they make that perfectly clear. It's going to be hard. It's going to be challenging. It is not making any effort to coddle players and smooth the path to higher levels. There will be CRs, there won't be easy methods of mass long distance travel, probably a complete lack of any form of off-line advancement, little to no instancing, and death will have potentially severe consequences. All the things that have dumbed down the current crop of MMOGs to the point of making their longevity questionable because they are just too easy.
    Second, the Dev Team has worked together for quite some time for the most part. Most of the key members from EQ1 are on board. They know the mistakes they made in the past, have watched the mistakes made by others and have a pretty clear vision of what they want to achieve. Having been together for so long means that the dev process can operate much smoother.
    Third, they are unlikely to bend very far from their vision based on forum pressure. Will they listen to the playerbase? Sure. Will they go to pieces (rather like SWG) under pressure? Absolutely not. They will keep their design philosophies intact.
    There are now a ton of MMOGs out there that attempt to be all things to all players. I find these games sacrifice complexity and quality of design and gameplay to appeal to every gameplay style. For those who want easy advancement and rapid ascension to higher levels ... Vanguard is probably not going to be a game they will enjoy. While I doubt revolutionary will be a term used to describe Vanguard, it is going to appeal to those of us who want the challenge put back into MMOGs.



    thank you. i agree with you 100%. the reason i quit SWG because they tried to do this and screwed it over. im looking forward for this game to come out a lot. btw anyone know when the expected release date is? ive looked and cant find it, or is there not one?
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