Originally posted by CalfisWhat;s the point of getting big in a sandbox if you're not allowed to throw that weight around?
What's the point of being pushed around by those who got big?
Power games might be enjoyable for some who wish to play power games, not so much for those who wish not.
That is what sandbox game is about - to be able to find your own path. Once you are forced and pushed around, it is no longer your own path and this principle becomes broken, regardless.
Get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact that there are others who wish to enjoy the game in a different way. From there, you can either try to make the world richer and bigger by supporting variety and diversity or you can become a dick.
The very fact that EVE does allow "events" like Hulkageddon to take place is what makes the game totally unique. I don't care much for Mittens and his antics, but the very fact that the likes of him exist in the game makes it an interesting place.
Has Hulkageddon completely shut down hisec space ? No.
Has the concurrent online player number dropped 30% because of Hulkageddon ? No.
Will Hulkageddon "destroy" EVE ? No.
Will some players unsub from EVE because of Hulkageddon ? Yes.
Will they be replaced by other players ? Yes.
I can make these statements because this is not the first time EVE has seen a Hulkageddon, and none of the previous events "destroyed" the game. CCP will moderate if necessary, they always do.
The world is not static and predictable in EVE, which appeals to a certain group of MMO players. It repels the majority of MMO players, but that's fine, because they have many other games to choose from. If you can't constantly adapt to the changes, you will not like EVE.
The fact that EVE allows events like Hulkageddon is the reason why the game has always been a niche game. It is crystal clear that CCP likes it the way it is. They could easily make hisec space 100% safe and attract a large chunk of players, but they choose not to.
Inexplicably to many observers, EVE has slowly and consistently grown over the years, a feat that has not been matched by any other MMO in the western market. EVE's subscriber numbers now exceed those of many of the AAA themeparks that launched and withered in the last few years. For all the sensationalist press articles, all the high-profile scams and all the controversy, it is still highly successful in it's niche.
What;s the point of getting big in a sandbox if you're not allowed to throw that weight around?
What's the point of being pushed around by those who got big?
Power games might be enjoyable for some who wish to play power games, not so much for those who wish not.
That is what sandbox game is about - to be able to find your own path. Once you are forced and pushed around, it is no longer your own path and this principle becomes broken, regardless.
Get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact that there are others who wish to enjoy the game in a different way. From there, you can either try to make the world richer and bigger by supporting variety and diversity or you can become a dick.
EVE is the ultimate power game, I'd like to think thats part of its lure and what makes it unique. It doesn't try to coddle players by pretending the virtual universe is supposed to be a level playing field. There are plenty of other games that do that, this one chooses to throw everyone in the same ring and see what happens.
The sandbox is about being able to find your own path but its not about making a bubble for you to live in, there are other people in the box and you have to make your own way while interacting with them too.
Putting everyone in a protective bubble so they can "do what they want" without having to "deal" with anyone else in the sandbox is not a true sandbox. It is simply a big box with lots of little boxes inside of it. EVE is a universe not a multiverse, the sooner people realize that the sooner they realize that the sandbox is really just one box, as a sandbox should be.
Its possible to build a functional world with player made rules and order given the tools CCP made for us, its just that the biggest group has decided to be dicks like ya said. They could make something good but they choose not to, that is also in keeping with the sandbox ideal. Just because given a choice between creating order or creating chaos, a group chooses to create chaos is not a reason for divine (dev) intervention to change the sandbox.
The whole idea is that the players are supposed to fix what the players have allowed to happen. There are groups of players that are trying to create order in EVE (Not Red Don't Shoot Coalition/Anti-Pirates), it just happens that they are weak compared to the ones who want to create chaos.
Originally posted by Calfis The sandbox is about being able to find your own path but its not about making a bubble for you to live in, there are other people in the box and you have to make your own way while interacting with them too.
Try to make less contradictory senseless statements please...
Originally posted by Calfis Putting everyone in a protective bubble so they can "do what they want" without having to "deal" with anyone else in the sandbox is not a true sandbox.
Mission runner in NPC corp, never talking to anyone is not less interacting with other players than 0.0 PVPer.
But yeah, tell me more how to play the game "right"...
The sandbox is about being able to find your own path but its not about making a bubble for you to live in, there are other people in the box and you have to make your own way while interacting with them too.
Try to make less contradictory senseless statements please...
Originally posted by Calfis
Putting everyone in a protective bubble so they can "do what they want" without having to "deal" with anyone else in the sandbox is not a true sandbox.
Mission runner in NPC corp, never talking to anyone is not less interacting with other players than 0.0 PVPer.
But yeah, tell me more how to play the game "right"...
I've generally enjoyed your posting in General Discussion so I'm going to try to say this as respectful as possible to you. I'm not saying you can't play this game solo and not interact with anybody. Just don't expect the game to not interact with you.
Because its not designed to be a game in the traditional sense its designed to be a virtual living world with people in that world that will choose to interact with it and its inhabitants however they wish, just like you do (in your case you wish not to interact with them). But your decision to not interact with the them doesn't mean they won't interact with you.
What;s the point of getting big in a sandbox if you're not allowed to throw that weight around?
What's the point of being pushed around by those who got big?
Power games might be enjoyable for some who wish to play power games, not so much for those who wish not.
That is what sandbox game is about - to be able to find your own path. Once you are forced and pushed around, it is no longer your own path and this principle becomes broken, regardless.
Get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact that there are others who wish to enjoy the game in a different way. From there, you can either try to make the world richer and bigger by supporting variety and diversity or you can become a dick.
We don't deny that there are people who want to play the game "a different way". We know this, and actually embrace it. I've never been told to train any specific skill or to fly any specific ship, no one ever told me I had to fly a combat OP, participate in a mining OP, or that I had to have at least one PI installation.
I was asked to join goons, I said I'm not pvper, I'm just a carebear manufacturer so I wasn't sure I'd fit, and I was told that that's perfect. Goons do EVERYTHING. Wanna just do PvE, goons have a squad for you. Wanna explore a WH, goosn has a squad for you, wanna do indie, goons has a squad for you, wanna pvp, goons has a squad for you.
Month old noob who doesn't know what you're doing. Not a problem, goons will take you in, put you under their wing, give you the ships, teach you how to fit them, take you out and teach you how to fly them in a role that suits you. If you want to do that.
We don't want to ruin the game, not the game itself, not for anyone else. Nor are the goons just a bunch of wolves preying on carebear, in fact most of the ganking isn't even done by goons, we just pay if you for every 10 hulks you manage to blow up.
Goons embraces every sort of player, and every sort of playstyle.
But we also undertand something that a lot of people seem to forget. EVE is not safe place. If you undock you risk your ship, ever, single, time. People get comfy and forget about this.
You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in.
You think that's an exageration, I tell you it's not. As someone that did a LOT of mining, I know first hand what it's like to fly to a system, warp to a belt, and the disapointment of finding it being picked clean by a bunch of AFK miners in T2 barges and mining ships. It's almost enough to make you want to get into a destroyer and suicide gank the lot of them. That is if you could actually mine enough to afford a destroyer to do so.
We're as diverse a group of players and playstyles as you'll find in EVE. The baseless accusations and undeserved credit we get is funny though.
What;s the point of getting big in a sandbox if you're not allowed to throw that weight around?
What's the point of being pushed around by those who got big?
Power games might be enjoyable for some who wish to play power games, not so much for those who wish not.
That is what sandbox game is about - to be able to find your own path. Once you are forced and pushed around, it is no longer your own path and this principle becomes broken, regardless.
Get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact that there are others who wish to enjoy the game in a different way. From there, you can either try to make the world richer and bigger by supporting variety and diversity or you can become a dick.
We don't deny that there are people who want to play the game "a different way". We know this, and actually embrace it. I've never been told to train any specific skill or to fly any specific ship, no one ever told me I had to fly a combat OP, participate in a mining OP, or that I had to have at least one PI installation.
I was asked to join goons, I said I'm not pvper, I'm just a carebear manufacturer so I wasn't sure I'd fit, and I was told that that's perfect. Goons do EVERYTHING. Wanna just do PvE, goons have a squad for you. Wanna explore a WH, goosn has a squad for you, wanna do indie, goons has a squad for you, wanna pvp, goons has a squad for you.
Month old noob who doesn't know what you're doing. Not a problem, goons will take you in, put you under their wing, give you the ships, teach you how to fit them, take you out and teach you how to fly them in a role that suits you. If you want to do that.
We don't want to ruin the game, not the game itself, not for anyone else. Nor are the goons just a bunch of wolves preying on carebear, in fact most of the ganking isn't even done by goons, we just pay if you for every 10 hulks you manage to blow up.
Goons embraces every sort of player, and every sort of playstyle.
But we also undertand something that a lot of people seem to forget. EVE is not safe place. If you undock you risk your ship, ever, single, time. People get comfy and forget about this.
You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in.
You think that's an exageration, I tell you it's not. As someone that did a LOT of mining, I know first hand what it's like to fly to a system, warp to a belt, and the disapointment of finding it being picked clean by a bunch of AFK miners in T2 barges and mining ships. It's almost enough to make you want to get into a destroyer and suicide gank the lot of them. That is if you could actually mine enough to afford a destroyer to do so.
We're as diverse a group of players and playstyles as you'll find in EVE. The baseless accusations and undeserved credit we get is funny though.
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
Welcome to the economic sandbox? We are a corporation afterall.
But let me ask you. What threat does a hulk in a .7 system, stripmining an stroid belt face?
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
Welcome to the economic sandbox? We are a corporation afterall.
But let me ask you. What threat does a hulk in a .7 system, stripmining an stroid belt face?
Not really the point I was making. In communities there is goverment and monopoly commissions etc etc that counteract corporations so they cannot abuse the market and the relatively weak - they are there for a very good reason. A sandbox is no different. Hiding behind disengenious reasoning does not make it right. Eve is a universe for wolves, and better for it, but paying money for people to 'suicide' others - dirty, nasty?
How would goons feel if eve introduced a function to allow 'carebares' to gang up to hire huge NPC armies when attacked in safe space? an army without limit at a price that can literally wipe out the largest of corps - that would be sandbox as well, fair?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Calfis I've generally enjoyed your posting in General Discussion so I'm going to try to say this as respectful as possible to you. I'm not saying you can't play this game solo and not interact with anybody. Just don't expect the game to not interact with you.Because its not designed to be a game in the traditional sense its designed to be a virtual living world with people in that world that will choose to interact with it and its inhabitants however they wish, just like you do (in your case you wish not to interact with them). But your decision to not interact with the them doesn't mean they won't interact with you.
Wile I did write "tell me more how to play the game right", I did not mean it as literally...
You are mistaking PVP for sandbox. Those two are 2 different things - in a PVP game competition is mandatory, in sandbox it is not. It is the rules and restrictions that creates freedom and order and whenever there is something breaking the rules, it is indeed a right time for dev intervention - just like CCP did so many times before.
Sadly you did not get(not to say addressed) any point I made. Once you are done with enforcing and pushing through people's throats your own way how the game should be played or perceived, there can be a reasonable discussion...
Originally posted by Uhwop You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion.
Of course...
Originally posted by Gdemami I did not read the article, yet I can imagine how he goes thoroughly explaining how he is actually doing a favor to the game(saving it) and to the players who are either very stupid(read: disagree) or not playing the game "right".Really not worthy the read, it is a typical Mittens hypocrisy and delusion of is egocentric disorder. He does something either very harmful, pointless or pocketing someone else effort or action and then justify it as something heroic. The man is seriously disturbed...
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
Welcome to the economic sandbox? We are a corporation afterall.
But let me ask you. What threat does a hulk in a .7 system, stripmining an stroid belt face?
Not really the point I was making. In communities there is goverment and monopoly commissions etc etc that counteract corporations so they cannot abuse the market and the relatively weak - they are there for a very good reason. A sandbox is no different. Hiding behind disengenious reasoning does not make it right. Eve is a universe for wolves, and better for it, but paying money for people to 'suicide' others - dirty, nasty?
How would goons feel if eve introduced a function to allow 'carebares' to gang up to hire huge NPC armies when attacked in safe space? an army without limit at a price that can literally wipe out the largest of corps - that would be sandbox as well, fair?
Love the idea.
Though wouldn't the goons have that option too? In that case they would just spawn more fleets, because they have more resources anyways?
Maybe based on a criminal reputation system, that is actually voted on by players over time, with a judicial review board managed by gm's to ensure there is no abuse of the system. If over a given time your average reputation falls below a certain level then you may be targeted by the NPC armies for a period
Personally I would remove the facility to suicide Gank, or even better allow you to hire npc bodyguards, that would be interesting.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
Welcome to the economic sandbox? We are a corporation afterall.
But let me ask you. What threat does a hulk in a .7 system, stripmining an stroid belt face?
Not really the point I was making. In communities there is goverment and monopoly commissions etc etc that counteract corporations so they cannot abuse the market and the relatively weak - they are there for a very good reason. A sandbox is no different. Hiding behind disengenious reasoning does not make it right. Eve is a universe for wolves, and better for it, but paying money for people to 'suicide' others - dirty, nasty?
How would goons feel if eve introduced a function to allow 'carebares' to gang up to hire huge NPC armies when attacked in safe space? an army without limit at a price that can literally wipe out the largest of corps - that would be sandbox as well, fair?
The functions you describe are supposed to be provided by other players.
To put it another way, you're effectively asking CCP to take sides in a player dispute. Why should they spawn legions of NPC helpers for you? That's the precise opposite of "sandbox".
Additionally, any reasonably co-ordinated fleet would wipe the floor with NPC helpers.
If you want to spend a boatload of cash to pay someone to attack goons with, I hear Pandemic Legion are for hire.
I suppose CCP blowing player A up because he attacked player B is "taking sides" as well, but that's a reactive measure (responding directly to a specific action) rather than a proactive measure (acting to prevent future attacks), which is qualitatively different IMO.
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
Welcome to the economic sandbox? We are a corporation afterall.
But let me ask you. What threat does a hulk in a .7 system, stripmining an stroid belt face?
Not really the point I was making. In communities there is goverment and monopoly commissions etc etc that counteract corporations so they cannot abuse the market and the relatively weak - they are there for a very good reason. A sandbox is no different. Hiding behind disengenious reasoning does not make it right. Eve is a universe for wolves, and better for it, but paying money for people to 'suicide' others - dirty, nasty?
How would goons feel if eve introduced a function to allow 'carebares' to gang up to hire huge NPC armies when attacked in safe space? an army without limit at a price that can literally wipe out the largest of corps - that would be sandbox as well, fair?
The functions you describe are supposed to be provided by other players.
To put it another way, you're effectively asking CCP to take sides in a player dispute. Why should they spawn legions of NPC helpers for you? That's the precise opposite of "sandbox".
Additionally, any reasonably co-ordinated fleet would wipe the floor with NPC helpers.
If you want to spend a boatload of cash to pay someone to attack goons with, I hear Pandemic Legion are for hire.
Nothing to do with 'sides', as i said you do need an external impartial influence to maintain the balance within a community to counteract monopolisation and to prevent individual entities from becoming powerful to the point where it can try to force behaviour apon the entire community. Thats a normal element of a healthy community.
Better question, what would you recommend to prevent corporations becoming too powerful within a community, something that actually works and cannot be abused in an environment where bullying is allowed?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The functions you describe are supposed to be provided by other players.
To put it another way, you're effectively asking CCP to take sides in a player dispute. Why should they spawn legions of NPC helpers for you? That's the precise opposite of "sandbox".
Additionally, any reasonably co-ordinated fleet would wipe the floor with NPC helpers.
If you want to spend a boatload of cash to pay someone to attack goons with, I hear Pandemic Legion are for hire.
Nothing to do with 'sides', as i said you do need an external impartial influence to maintain the balance within a community to counteract monopolisation and to prevent individual entities from becoming powerful to the point where it can try to force behaviour apon the entire community. Thats a normal element of a healthy community.
Better question, what would you recommend to prevent corporations becoming too powerful within a community, something that actually works and cannot be abused in an environment where bullying is allowed?
External Impartial Influence is provided by Concord and Game Environment in general. If you want UN, go establish one.
I dont know what your other whine is about. There is obvious balance in EVE Community, even with the 0.0 powerblocks and there exist hardly any monopolisation nor is any individual entitiy capable to control "entire" community.
Goonswarm Federation, a total of dozen alliances, total of hunreds of corporations, consists of maximum and I mean really, top most if every spy, solo despot and religiously PVE highsec alt nut is counted, 10,000 players. It is largest, but out of 350,000 or more its not much. It has access to "federation space" which is less than one tenth of conquerable space, its own space is 1/35th of the total.
For the sake of the argument lets pretend GSF is somehow all one entity. If it would be overpowered, why wouldn't it conquer more space with ease? It should be all over the north and east regions with no hickups. It should win all fleet fights and simply trample over opposition No, cant do it, other powerblocks hold and defend, successfully. Even attack, or did we just not see Drone Region Forces at the gate of Branch? They are providing internal partial influence and counter balance, providing normal element to a healthy communitdf
Your claim that somehow hulkageddon forces behavior on entire community is completely wrong. Not even if we change "entire community" to "those few hundred semiafkers". A certain risk exists when you mine without precaution even in highsec, at certain points in time that risk is realized as event and a death occurs. You are not forced by any means to avoid undocking and taking that risk again. Clear instructions to lower the risk are screamed left and right in all relevant information soures available to anyone without restrictions, but you are not forced to follow them either.
Happy thousands still produce minerals in safety. Shaking group of alliances sent some of its lowest ethic members to pray on the weak to shake things up. Someone ended up on the wrong side and perhaps did not learn. Perhaps its not foulty game mechanics or the game community that was unbalanced or misgoverned, perhaps its simply a player mistake, over confidence of a rookie, lack partaking the slightest to learn how to avoid getting hit by the truck when sleeping on the road.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
The functions you describe are supposed to be provided by other players.
To put it another way, you're effectively asking CCP to take sides in a player dispute. Why should they spawn legions of NPC helpers for you? That's the precise opposite of "sandbox".
Additionally, any reasonably co-ordinated fleet would wipe the floor with NPC helpers.
If you want to spend a boatload of cash to pay someone to attack goons with, I hear Pandemic Legion are for hire.
Nothing to do with 'sides', as i said you do need an external impartial influence to maintain the balance within a community to counteract monopolisation and to prevent individual entities from becoming powerful to the point where it can try to force behaviour apon the entire community. Thats a normal element of a healthy community.
Better question, what would you recommend to prevent corporations becoming too powerful within a community, something that actually works and cannot be abused in an environment where bullying is allowed?
External Impartial Influence is provided by Concord and Game Environment in general. If you want UN, go establish one.
I dont know what your other whine is about. There is obvious balance in EVE Community, even with the 0.0 powerblocks and there exist hardly any monopolisation nor is any individual entitiy capable to control "entire" community.
Goonswarm Federation, a total of dozen alliances, total of hunreds of corporations, consists of maximum and I mean really, top most if every spy, solo despot and religiously PVE highsec alt nut is counted, 10,000 players. It is largest, but out of 350,000 or more its not much. It has access to "federation space" which is less than one tenth of conquerable space, its own space is 1/35th of the total.
For the sake of the argument lets pretend GSF is somehow all one entity. If it would be overpowered, why wouldn't it conquer more space with ease? It should be all over the north and east regions with no hickups. It should win all fleet fights and simply trample over opposition No, cant do it, other powerblocks hold and defend, successfully. Even attack, or did we just not see Drone Region Forces at the gate of Branch? They are providing internal partial influence and counter balance, providing normal element to a healthy communitdf
Your claim that somehow hulkageddon forces behavior on entire community is completely wrong. Not even if we change "entire community" to "those few hundred semiafkers". A certain risk exists when you mine without precaution even in highsec, at certain points in time that risk is realized as event and a death occurs. You are not forced by any means to avoid undocking and taking that risk again. Clear instructions to lower the risk are screamed left and right in all relevant information soures available to anyone without restrictions, but you are not forced to follow them either.
Happy thousands still produce minerals in safety. Shaking group of alliances sent some of its lowest ethic members to pray on the weak to shake things up. Someone ended up on the wrong side and perhaps did not learn. Perhaps its not foulty game mechanics or the game community that was unbalanced or misgoverned, perhaps its simply a player mistake, over confidence of a rookie, lack partaking the slightest to learn how to avoid getting hit by the truck when sleeping on the road.
That is not the true honest motivation for hulkageddon though is it. Im not talking about what it does, im talking about the intent behind the action. I personally find encouraging suicide ganking is anti-community.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Eluwien A certain risk exists when you mine without precaution even in highsec, at certain points in time that risk is realized as event and a death occurs. ...Someone ended up on the wrong side and perhaps did not learn. Perhaps its not foulty game mechanics or the game community that was unbalanced or misgoverned, perhaps its simply a player mistake, over confidence of a rookie, lack partaking the slightest to learn how to avoid getting hit by the truck when sleeping on the road.
Precaution, player mistake or lack of partaking in learning? Oh, really?
I do not think you even understand what you talk about here.
Fundamental principle in EVE and sandbox games in general is choice. You always have a choice how to deal with either environment or other entities. When you will try to engage me in PVP, I will have a handful of tools how to either avoid the engagement or escape. No one will guarantee the result but there is a choice.
Problem is, this does not apply to high-sec mining well.
Mining is by design semi-afk activity requiring little player input over long periods of time, it is not a combat activity, you are locked into specific ships with little to no defense or escape capabilities and no cautiousness can help you in crowded public space such as high-sec.
This represents a problem because you are leaving miners without any viable choice how to protect themselves.
If anything Hulkageddon proved or pointed out it was this:
Suicide ganking is a viable option in EVE and implementation of Concord repercussion is there to ensure it will be rare sight and occasion. But when you can get so organized suicide ganking campaign at a scale of Hulkageddon, something is most likely broken here because suicide ganks are no longer a rare sight and occasion.
There are 2 possible conclusions: You either admit that something is broken or you deny Hulkageddon scale and effect.
First of all... the reason behind events like "Burn Jita" and "Hulkageddon" is to get CCP working on their game and change some of the major flaws that currently exist.
"Burn Jita" is an event that let's CCP know, that EvE shouldn't have a major central trading-hub. EvE should have regional hubs, all equally important. Back in the time there was Yulai as the main-hub, but other important hubs where still existing, due to the fact that there was low-sec seperating the regions. CCP took away the "borders" between the empires and introduced "highways". These highways turned Jita into the trading-hub it is today, as it is reachable very fast from wherever you are im empire.
I think it's a good idea to seperate the faction-space by low-sec-belts again. This way the factional-warfare would gain more importance, and piracy would again become a reasonable profession. People would need to plan and coordinate again to make a run from Amarr to Jita again, driving the community-aspect.
"Hulkageddon" is just another event that shows CCP the flaws of the current game. It's totally unaceptable that ice is available in high-sec. And it's aswell inaceptable, that you can make a fortune by just AFK-mining in high-sec. The formula of "risk vs. reward" doesn't hold true anymore. Ice should only be harvestable in low- and null-sec, where it's needed most and foremost. Ice is needed by the larger entities to run their infrastructure (POS and caps) and therefore they should've to invest more time to sustain it. With the high-sec AFK-miners, the ice is available in masses without any risk involved, and that's why "Hulkageddon" put's the risk back into the game.
In addition to removing ice from high-sec I think it's time to remove loot-drops even more from the NPCs, as this is a major supplier for minerals aswell. CCP did remove the alloys from the drones finally after the community was loudly screaming constantly for it to happen for 4-5 years. If mining should be a viable profession, then the loot-drops from NPCs have to be lowered drastically, and you allready get bounties and salvage out of them.
Yes, ofcourse the changes would make things more expensive in EvE, but then again, things are way too cheap currently. People throw away their ships basically, as they're too easily replacable. This takes away from the PvP imho. Losses should be felt, so that you think twice before engaging in PvP.
With that said, I think there needs to change even more in EvE to make me come back again. The whole Sov-system and distribution of moon-minerals need to change. Moons should deplete and spawn somewhere else from time to time. Sovereignity should be 100% based on activity instead of structures, the true-sec shold change based on activity aswell. This would make the whole 0.0 way more dynamic. Currently 0.0 is 100% static.
EvE Online is still a good MMO, but it was best before they introduced capitals and jump-bridges.
If anything Hulkageddon proved or pointed out it was this:
Suicide ganking is a viable option in EVE and implementation of Concord repercussion is there to ensure it will be rare sight and occasion. But when you can get so organized suicide ganking campaign at a scale of Hulkageddon, something is most likely broken here because suicide ganks are no longer a rare sight and occasion.
There are 2 possible conclusions: You either admit that something is broken or you deny Hulkageddon scale and effect.
I actually believe that this forever hulkageddon is an elaborate mittani troll. He is trying to force CCP to choose between the laissez-faire sandbox ideal that they have always espoused and the practical need to have a functional gaming environment (most MMOs make this happen by having consensual PVP). By pushing his own freedom to act to the limit and causing mass discord he is trolling CCP to see if they will stick by their Laissez-faire guns or intervene and push EVE closer toward the mainstream.
He's trying to force CCP to choose between the hardcore or the more casual crowd. If CCP sticks by its guns and does nothing than Goonswarm is a hero of the sandbox, if they do intervene than they have destroyed this EVE ideal of the sandbox thereby epically pwning EVE. Its a win-win for mittani cuz I don't think he plans to stay at the helm for too much longer. He's gunna go out with a bang.
He is trying to force CCP to choose between the laissez-faire sandbox ideal that they have always espoused
If they ever did, there would be no high sec and many restrictive rules.
On the contrary, what makes EVE sandbox is the "practical need to have a functional gaming environment".
You just still impose your play style and view upon others...such approach is mutually exclusive with sandbox principles.
I personally believe that highsec and restrictive rules are concessions to keep the sheep in the game. Although for obvious PC reasons if you were CCP you can't say this outright.
Either way its part of the sandbox to impose my playstyle and views upon others in the box with me, on the flipside its their right to do the same to me. For example there is a small coalition called the NRDS (anti-pirate) coalition that I philosophically disagree with, they are trying to impose their way of thinking thru artifical player rules that they have invented. They enforce their ideals by blowing up "pirates" that do not agree with their rules. They are doing something about people like goons actively and without CCP intervention, they are miners and industrialists too but with teeth and for this I do respect them much more than someone who simply ask the devs to solve player problems for them.
Originally posted by Calfis For example there is a small coalition called the NRDS (anti-pirate) coalition that I philosophically disagree with, they are trying to impose their way of thinking thru artifical player rules that they have invented. They enforce their ideals by blowing up "pirates" that do not agree with their rules. They are doing something about people like goons actively and without CCP intervention, they are miners and industrialists too but with teeth and for this I do respect them much more than someone who simply ask the devs to solve player problems for them.
We are running in circles within your narrow-minded perception...as I said before you are mistaking PVP for sandbox. Those two are not the same as you make them out to be.
Being sheep or having teeth does not make one more important or valuable over another. They are both different play styles and in order to be a sandbox game, you need to cater them both equally.
Comments
What's the point of being pushed around by those who got big?
Power games might be enjoyable for some who wish to play power games, not so much for those who wish not.
That is what sandbox game is about - to be able to find your own path. Once you are forced and pushed around, it is no longer your own path and this principle becomes broken, regardless.
Get off your high horse and acknowledge the fact that there are others who wish to enjoy the game in a different way. From there, you can either try to make the world richer and bigger by supporting variety and diversity or you can become a dick.
The very fact that EVE does allow "events" like Hulkageddon to take place is what makes the game totally unique. I don't care much for Mittens and his antics, but the very fact that the likes of him exist in the game makes it an interesting place.
Has Hulkageddon completely shut down hisec space ? No.
Has the concurrent online player number dropped 30% because of Hulkageddon ? No.
Will Hulkageddon "destroy" EVE ? No.
Will some players unsub from EVE because of Hulkageddon ? Yes.
Will they be replaced by other players ? Yes.
I can make these statements because this is not the first time EVE has seen a Hulkageddon, and none of the previous events "destroyed" the game. CCP will moderate if necessary, they always do.
The world is not static and predictable in EVE, which appeals to a certain group of MMO players. It repels the majority of MMO players, but that's fine, because they have many other games to choose from. If you can't constantly adapt to the changes, you will not like EVE.
The fact that EVE allows events like Hulkageddon is the reason why the game has always been a niche game. It is crystal clear that CCP likes it the way it is. They could easily make hisec space 100% safe and attract a large chunk of players, but they choose not to.
Inexplicably to many observers, EVE has slowly and consistently grown over the years, a feat that has not been matched by any other MMO in the western market. EVE's subscriber numbers now exceed those of many of the AAA themeparks that launched and withered in the last few years. For all the sensationalist press articles, all the high-profile scams and all the controversy, it is still highly successful in it's niche.
EVE is the ultimate power game, I'd like to think thats part of its lure and what makes it unique. It doesn't try to coddle players by pretending the virtual universe is supposed to be a level playing field. There are plenty of other games that do that, this one chooses to throw everyone in the same ring and see what happens.
The sandbox is about being able to find your own path but its not about making a bubble for you to live in, there are other people in the box and you have to make your own way while interacting with them too.
Putting everyone in a protective bubble so they can "do what they want" without having to "deal" with anyone else in the sandbox is not a true sandbox. It is simply a big box with lots of little boxes inside of it. EVE is a universe not a multiverse, the sooner people realize that the sooner they realize that the sandbox is really just one box, as a sandbox should be.
Its possible to build a functional world with player made rules and order given the tools CCP made for us, its just that the biggest group has decided to be dicks like ya said. They could make something good but they choose not to, that is also in keeping with the sandbox ideal. Just because given a choice between creating order or creating chaos, a group chooses to create chaos is not a reason for divine (dev) intervention to change the sandbox.
The whole idea is that the players are supposed to fix what the players have allowed to happen. There are groups of players that are trying to create order in EVE (Not Red Don't Shoot Coalition/Anti-Pirates), it just happens that they are weak compared to the ones who want to create chaos.
Try to make less contradictory senseless statements please...
Mission runner in NPC corp, never talking to anyone is not less interacting with other players than 0.0 PVPer.
But yeah, tell me more how to play the game "right"...
I've generally enjoyed your posting in General Discussion so I'm going to try to say this as respectful as possible to you. I'm not saying you can't play this game solo and not interact with anybody. Just don't expect the game to not interact with you.
Because its not designed to be a game in the traditional sense its designed to be a virtual living world with people in that world that will choose to interact with it and its inhabitants however they wish, just like you do (in your case you wish not to interact with them). But your decision to not interact with the them doesn't mean they won't interact with you.
We don't deny that there are people who want to play the game "a different way". We know this, and actually embrace it. I've never been told to train any specific skill or to fly any specific ship, no one ever told me I had to fly a combat OP, participate in a mining OP, or that I had to have at least one PI installation.
I was asked to join goons, I said I'm not pvper, I'm just a carebear manufacturer so I wasn't sure I'd fit, and I was told that that's perfect. Goons do EVERYTHING. Wanna just do PvE, goons have a squad for you. Wanna explore a WH, goosn has a squad for you, wanna do indie, goons has a squad for you, wanna pvp, goons has a squad for you.
Month old noob who doesn't know what you're doing. Not a problem, goons will take you in, put you under their wing, give you the ships, teach you how to fit them, take you out and teach you how to fly them in a role that suits you. If you want to do that.
We don't want to ruin the game, not the game itself, not for anyone else. Nor are the goons just a bunch of wolves preying on carebear, in fact most of the ganking isn't even done by goons, we just pay if you for every 10 hulks you manage to blow up.
Goons embraces every sort of player, and every sort of playstyle.
But we also undertand something that a lot of people seem to forget. EVE is not safe place. If you undock you risk your ship, ever, single, time. People get comfy and forget about this.
You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in.
You think that's an exageration, I tell you it's not. As someone that did a LOT of mining, I know first hand what it's like to fly to a system, warp to a belt, and the disapointment of finding it being picked clean by a bunch of AFK miners in T2 barges and mining ships. It's almost enough to make you want to get into a destroyer and suicide gank the lot of them. That is if you could actually mine enough to afford a destroyer to do so.
We're as diverse a group of players and playstyles as you'll find in EVE. The baseless accusations and undeserved credit we get is funny though.
Couldn't care less to spend 5 secs of my life reading anything this tool has to say. The people he's preaching to already now the deal. Like myself.
The rest are def ears that could care less. So what's the point? Nothing more than having his name on it.
Sad little man he is.
No, you are diverse within your corporation, but you try to suppress free enterprise and diversity within the overall community at large by using your weight to bully and supress for your corporations own end. It is both a compliment to Eve in that it allows the worst expression of humanity without imploding, and a curse in that it does not encourage and guide the community most hope for (we all hope for community right?) its an interesting question though, will everyone end up being a goon - what then?! repulsive bu interesting to watch for sure.
'You can even go so far as to say that we're actually helping new players in the mining proffesion. Now when they go into an asteroid belt, later in the day, in there miing frigates or their T1 barges, there are actually asteroids there for them to mine. Instead of going into a belt and not being able to mine anything because several T2 barges stripped the belts clean in all the hi sec systems that you wold expect new players to be mining in. '
Compare that point of view to certain events in human history, in a way it is astonishing for a game.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Welcome to the economic sandbox? We are a corporation afterall.
But let me ask you. What threat does a hulk in a .7 system, stripmining an stroid belt face?
Not really the point I was making. In communities there is goverment and monopoly commissions etc etc that counteract corporations so they cannot abuse the market and the relatively weak - they are there for a very good reason. A sandbox is no different. Hiding behind disengenious reasoning does not make it right. Eve is a universe for wolves, and better for it, but paying money for people to 'suicide' others - dirty, nasty?
How would goons feel if eve introduced a function to allow 'carebares' to gang up to hire huge NPC armies when attacked in safe space? an army without limit at a price that can literally wipe out the largest of corps - that would be sandbox as well, fair?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Wile I did write "tell me more how to play the game right", I did not mean it as literally...
You are mistaking PVP for sandbox. Those two are 2 different things - in a PVP game competition is mandatory, in sandbox it is not. It is the rules and restrictions that creates freedom and order and whenever there is something breaking the rules, it is indeed a right time for dev intervention - just like CCP did so many times before.
Sadly you did not get(not to say addressed) any point I made. Once you are done with enforcing and pushing through people's throats your own way how the game should be played or perceived, there can be a reasonable discussion...
Of course...
Love the idea.
Though wouldn't the goons have that option too? In that case they would just spawn more fleets, because they have more resources anyways?
/hypothetical
Maybe based on a criminal reputation system, that is actually voted on by players over time, with a judicial review board managed by gm's to ensure there is no abuse of the system. If over a given time your average reputation falls below a certain level then you may be targeted by the NPC armies for a period
Personally I would remove the facility to suicide Gank, or even better allow you to hire npc bodyguards, that would be interesting.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The functions you describe are supposed to be provided by other players.
To put it another way, you're effectively asking CCP to take sides in a player dispute. Why should they spawn legions of NPC helpers for you? That's the precise opposite of "sandbox".
Additionally, any reasonably co-ordinated fleet would wipe the floor with NPC helpers.
If you want to spend a boatload of cash to pay someone to attack goons with, I hear Pandemic Legion are for hire.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Same goes for suicide ganks and "forced" PVP.
I suppose CCP blowing player A up because he attacked player B is "taking sides" as well, but that's a reactive measure (responding directly to a specific action) rather than a proactive measure (acting to prevent future attacks), which is qualitatively different IMO.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Nothing to do with 'sides', as i said you do need an external impartial influence to maintain the balance within a community to counteract monopolisation and to prevent individual entities from becoming powerful to the point where it can try to force behaviour apon the entire community. Thats a normal element of a healthy community.
Better question, what would you recommend to prevent corporations becoming too powerful within a community, something that actually works and cannot be abused in an environment where bullying is allowed?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
External Impartial Influence is provided by Concord and Game Environment in general. If you want UN, go establish one.
I dont know what your other whine is about. There is obvious balance in EVE Community, even with the 0.0 powerblocks and there exist hardly any monopolisation nor is any individual entitiy capable to control "entire" community.
Goonswarm Federation, a total of dozen alliances, total of hunreds of corporations, consists of maximum and I mean really, top most if every spy, solo despot and religiously PVE highsec alt nut is counted, 10,000 players. It is largest, but out of 350,000 or more its not much. It has access to "federation space" which is less than one tenth of conquerable space, its own space is 1/35th of the total.
For the sake of the argument lets pretend GSF is somehow all one entity. If it would be overpowered, why wouldn't it conquer more space with ease? It should be all over the north and east regions with no hickups. It should win all fleet fights and simply trample over opposition No, cant do it, other powerblocks hold and defend, successfully. Even attack, or did we just not see Drone Region Forces at the gate of Branch? They are providing internal partial influence and counter balance, providing normal element to a healthy communitdf
Your claim that somehow hulkageddon forces behavior on entire community is completely wrong. Not even if we change "entire community" to "those few hundred semiafkers". A certain risk exists when you mine without precaution even in highsec, at certain points in time that risk is realized as event and a death occurs. You are not forced by any means to avoid undocking and taking that risk again. Clear instructions to lower the risk are screamed left and right in all relevant information soures available to anyone without restrictions, but you are not forced to follow them either.
Happy thousands still produce minerals in safety. Shaking group of alliances sent some of its lowest ethic members to pray on the weak to shake things up. Someone ended up on the wrong side and perhaps did not learn. Perhaps its not foulty game mechanics or the game community that was unbalanced or misgoverned, perhaps its simply a player mistake, over confidence of a rookie, lack partaking the slightest to learn how to avoid getting hit by the truck when sleeping on the road.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
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Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
That is not the true honest motivation for hulkageddon though is it. Im not talking about what it does, im talking about the intent behind the action. I personally find encouraging suicide ganking is anti-community.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Precaution, player mistake or lack of partaking in learning? Oh, really?
I do not think you even understand what you talk about here.
Fundamental principle in EVE and sandbox games in general is choice. You always have a choice how to deal with either environment or other entities. When you will try to engage me in PVP, I will have a handful of tools how to either avoid the engagement or escape. No one will guarantee the result but there is a choice.
Problem is, this does not apply to high-sec mining well.
Mining is by design semi-afk activity requiring little player input over long periods of time, it is not a combat activity, you are locked into specific ships with little to no defense or escape capabilities and no cautiousness can help you in crowded public space such as high-sec.
This represents a problem because you are leaving miners without any viable choice how to protect themselves.
If anything Hulkageddon proved or pointed out it was this:
Suicide ganking is a viable option in EVE and implementation of Concord repercussion is there to ensure it will be rare sight and occasion. But when you can get so organized suicide ganking campaign at a scale of Hulkageddon, something is most likely broken here because suicide ganks are no longer a rare sight and occasion.
There are 2 possible conclusions: You either admit that something is broken or you deny Hulkageddon scale and effect.
First of all... the reason behind events like "Burn Jita" and "Hulkageddon" is to get CCP working on their game and change some of the major flaws that currently exist.
"Burn Jita" is an event that let's CCP know, that EvE shouldn't have a major central trading-hub. EvE should have regional hubs, all equally important. Back in the time there was Yulai as the main-hub, but other important hubs where still existing, due to the fact that there was low-sec seperating the regions.
CCP took away the "borders" between the empires and introduced "highways". These highways turned Jita into the trading-hub it is today, as it is reachable very fast from wherever you are im empire.
I think it's a good idea to seperate the faction-space by low-sec-belts again. This way the factional-warfare would gain more importance, and piracy would again become a reasonable profession. People would need to plan and coordinate again to make a run from Amarr to Jita again, driving the community-aspect.
"Hulkageddon" is just another event that shows CCP the flaws of the current game. It's totally unaceptable that ice is available in high-sec. And it's aswell inaceptable, that you can make a fortune by just AFK-mining in high-sec. The formula of "risk vs. reward" doesn't hold true anymore.
Ice should only be harvestable in low- and null-sec, where it's needed most and foremost. Ice is needed by the larger entities to run their infrastructure (POS and caps) and therefore they should've to invest more time to sustain it. With the high-sec AFK-miners, the ice is available in masses without any risk involved, and that's why "Hulkageddon" put's the risk back into the game.
In addition to removing ice from high-sec I think it's time to remove loot-drops even more from the NPCs, as this is a major supplier for minerals aswell. CCP did remove the alloys from the drones finally after the community was loudly screaming constantly for it to happen for 4-5 years. If mining should be a viable profession, then the loot-drops from NPCs have to be lowered drastically, and you allready get bounties and salvage out of them.
Yes, ofcourse the changes would make things more expensive in EvE, but then again, things are way too cheap currently. People throw away their ships basically, as they're too easily replacable. This takes away from the PvP imho. Losses should be felt, so that you think twice before engaging in PvP.
With that said, I think there needs to change even more in EvE to make me come back again. The whole Sov-system and distribution of moon-minerals need to change. Moons should deplete and spawn somewhere else from time to time. Sovereignity should be 100% based on activity instead of structures, the true-sec shold change based on activity aswell.
This would make the whole 0.0 way more dynamic. Currently 0.0 is 100% static.
EvE Online is still a good MMO, but it was best before they introduced capitals and jump-bridges.
I actually believe that this forever hulkageddon is an elaborate mittani troll. He is trying to force CCP to choose between the laissez-faire sandbox ideal that they have always espoused and the practical need to have a functional gaming environment (most MMOs make this happen by having consensual PVP). By pushing his own freedom to act to the limit and causing mass discord he is trolling CCP to see if they will stick by their Laissez-faire guns or intervene and push EVE closer toward the mainstream.
He's trying to force CCP to choose between the hardcore or the more casual crowd. If CCP sticks by its guns and does nothing than Goonswarm is a hero of the sandbox, if they do intervene than they have destroyed this EVE ideal of the sandbox thereby epically pwning EVE. Its a win-win for mittani cuz I don't think he plans to stay at the helm for too much longer. He's gunna go out with a bang.
If they ever did, there would be no high sec and many restrictive rules.
On the contrary, what makes EVE sandbox is the "practical need to have a functional gaming environment".
You just still impose your play style and view upon others...such approach is mutually exclusive with sandbox principles.
I personally believe that highsec and restrictive rules are concessions to keep the sheep in the game. Although for obvious PC reasons if you were CCP you can't say this outright.
Either way its part of the sandbox to impose my playstyle and views upon others in the box with me, on the flipside its their right to do the same to me. For example there is a small coalition called the NRDS (anti-pirate) coalition that I philosophically disagree with, they are trying to impose their way of thinking thru artifical player rules that they have invented. They enforce their ideals by blowing up "pirates" that do not agree with their rules. They are doing something about people like goons actively and without CCP intervention, they are miners and industrialists too but with teeth and for this I do respect them much more than someone who simply ask the devs to solve player problems for them.
We are running in circles within your narrow-minded perception...as I said before you are mistaking PVP for sandbox. Those two are not the same as you make them out to be.
Being sheep or having teeth does not make one more important or valuable over another. They are both different play styles and in order to be a sandbox game, you need to cater them both equally.