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Perfect World Disappoints | STOked 124

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Comments

  • Falcon760Falcon760 Member Posts: 6

    I wouldnt say it is the "worst" MMO, but it certainly is small compared to others.  If they doubled the content, I think it still wouldn't compare to other midsize MMOs out there.  Fact is, they have no living world.  It's a mission driven, content-driven game, with no content.  I mean, there's nothing wrong with that kind of game, but you need CONTENT for that type of game.  Content is MISSIONS, stories, and interactions with new objectives.  Content is not a lockbox with a ship.  Content is not grinding rocks. 

    I think Fleet Starbases might be one step in the "living, breathing world" direction, which STO is certainly directly the opposite of.  Even the things you have to collect for personal Duty Officer missions  aren't that detailed or clear. 

    Really, they screwed themselves when they decided on a story-based MMO and not an open-world-type like other MMOs because things that make money for Perfect World stand in the way of their "story-based" environment.  They have to create new ships and things to sell and don't have the time to devote to constant content.  If they had made a more immersive environment, where you really have an impact on things, then this MMO might have kept players.     Now-a-days they create whole maps just for players to "experience" for a few weeks without anything sustantial to do at them, like Utopia Plantia.  What a waste of time that was. 

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    Originally posted by Falcon760

     Really, they screwed themselves when they decided on a story-based MMO and not an open-world-type like other MMOs because things that make money for Perfect World stand in the way of their "story-based" environment.  They have to create new ships and things to sell and don't have the time to devote to constant content.  If they had made a more immersive environment, where you really have an impact on things, then this MMO might have kept players.     Now-a-days they create whole maps just for players to "experience" for a few weeks without anything sustantial to do at them, like Utopia Plantia.  What a waste of time that was. 

    Ummm, excuse me, you don't know what you're talking about. PWE told Cryptic they had to make money on this game, before PWE  it was Atari, before that Cryptic was an independant. This is all Cryptic's game design and revenue stream design. This crap that the PWE or Atari made Cryptic do anything has got to stop. This has been Cryptic financial model since day one. Before Atari, if you doubt this , go look at CO. This was a game designed and ready before Atari purchased them.  Cryptic is the design house, PWE makes decision based on the financial performance of said house. If it's not satisfied with it it changes the personel or closes the company. There hasn't been a huge turn over in personnel at Cryptic, at least that is visible.

    image
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph Member UncommonPosts: 1,341

    this game should drop STAR TREK from name , it is not ST game it is crapy space game

    2409. year in timeline,klings are in war against feds but they  had free acces to dock in to DS9,strategic federation space station...seriosly...

    cat peoples owning klingon empire,how sad ...

     

    i am stoped playing after seasson 5,they  ruined good game play way,when making joke from STF(oops...i mean nothing special  task forces grind) , and after they change skill tree 2 times in two week ...

     

     

     

     

  • Falcon760Falcon760 Member Posts: 6

    My point is that Cryptic's original game design doesn't fit with free to play and doesn't really hold a game.  That original design is "story-based".  It's when you pay a fee and they give you constant content to play through.  Well now the model/design has changed completely, except once you eliminate the "story-based" design, there's nothing else to this game.  Nothing substantial anyway. 

    And honestly, when Dan Stahl said that the Cryptic personnel had doubled in size, that must have been an exaggeration or something.   I don't see how they can have more people working on the game but less to do.   Months go by and there is nothing added or changed to the game except superficial specials.  Bugs aren't fixed.  I would have to estimate that there are less people working on STO than before and most of those probably double while working on Neverwinter or something. 

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    Originally posted by Falcon760

    My point is that Cryptic's original game design doesn't fit with free to play and doesn't really hold a game.  That original design is "story-based".  It's when you pay a fee and they give you constant content to play through.  Well now the model/design has changed completely, except once you eliminate the "story-based" design, there's nothing else to this game.  Nothing substantial anyway. 

    And honestly, when Dan Stahl said that the Cryptic personnel had doubled in size, that must have been an exaggeration or something.   I don't see how they can have more people working on the game but less to do.   Months go by and there is nothing added or changed to the game except superficial specials.  Bugs aren't fixed.  I would have to estimate that there are less people working on STO than before and most of those probably double while working on Neverwinter or something. 

    It was designed as a f2p model from the outset. The story content was provided as a molifier until they could implement the UCG. So your premiss and logic are incorrect. While I agree the game is bare bones, Cryptic's envisioned model is the UCG and p2p . Now that it is f2p , it is all about UCG and C-Store content.

    As for Dstahl , he's a rehire who is incharge of make the UCG tools more useful for the new NW game, STO is a testbed for this . The only link he really has to STO is they trot him out occasionally , because they believe the player base still believes ad respect him . He's is basiscally a department head of a larger section and parts of STO fall under his domain.

    image
  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by Falcon760

     Really, they screwed themselves when they decided on a story-based MMO and not an open-world-type like other MMOs because things that make money for Perfect World stand in the way of their "story-based" environment.  They have to create new ships and things to sell and don't have the time to devote to constant content.  If they had made a more immersive environment, where you really have an impact on things, then this MMO might have kept players.     Now-a-days they create whole maps just for players to "experience" for a few weeks without anything sustantial to do at them, like Utopia Plantia.  What a waste of time that was. 

    Ummm, excuse me, you don't know what you're talking about. PWE told Cryptic they had to make money on this game, before PWE  it was Atari, before that Cryptic was an independant. This is all Cryptic's game design and revenue stream design. This crap that the PWE or Atari made Cryptic do anything has got to stop. This has been Cryptic financial model since day one. Before Atari, if you doubt this , go look at CO. This was a game designed and ready before Atari purchased them.  Cryptic is the design house, PWE makes decision based on the financial performance of said house. If it's not satisfied with it it changes the personel or closes the company. There hasn't been a huge turn over in personnel at Cryptic, at least that is visible.

    From what I heard, Cryptic wanted to make Neverwinter a dungeon crawler or something close to the Neverwinter Nights series, but when PWE gained control, they said to make it more action oriented like RaiderZ.

    Neverwinter was almost ready to be released before this happened.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by JosephJR

    this game should drop STAR TREK from name , it is not ST game it is crapy space game

    2409. year in timeline,klings are in war against feds but they  had free acces to dock in to DS9,strategic federation space station...seriosly...

    cat peoples owning klingon empire,how sad ...

     

    i am stoped playing after seasson 5,they  ruined good game play way,when making joke from STF(oops...i mean nothing special  task forces grind) , and after they change skill tree 2 times in two week ...

     

     

     

     

    DS9 is a strategic space station not agaisnt the Klingons, but against other threats, much bigger threats that one side can't handle alone, like species 8472 or the Borg.  Complaining about DS9 being neutral territory is like complaining about people actually having brains in a war and wanting to make peace with the other side instead of wanting to blow them to kingdom come, which IS THE WHOLE POINT OF IT BEING NEUTRAL TERRITORY.  

    And what "cat peoples owning klingon empire"?  Are you talking about the Caitians, a canon  species that has been part of the Star Trek since the original series (or at least the movies and animated season, all of which are still canon), or the Ferasans, a race that is not canon but made to replace the canon cat like Kzinti in order to avoid legal disputes?  Your wording of that sentence makes it impossible to tell which you are complaining about.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • Falcon760Falcon760 Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by Falcon760

    My point is that Cryptic's original game design doesn't fit with free to play and doesn't really hold a game.  That original design is "story-based".  It's when you pay a fee and they give you constant content to play through.  Well now the model/design has changed completely, except once you eliminate the "story-based" design, there's nothing else to this game.  Nothing substantial anyway. 

    And honestly, when Dan Stahl said that the Cryptic personnel had doubled in size, that must have been an exaggeration or something.   I don't see how they can have more people working on the game but less to do.   Months go by and there is nothing added or changed to the game except superficial specials.  Bugs aren't fixed.  I would have to estimate that there are less people working on STO than before and most of those probably double while working on Neverwinter or something. 

    It was designed as a f2p model from the outset. The story content was provided as a molifier until they could implement the UCG. So your premiss and logic are incorrect. While I agree the game is bare bones, Cryptic's envisioned model is the UCG and p2p . Now that it is f2p , it is all about UCG and C-Store content.

    As for Dstahl , he's a rehire who is incharge of make the UCG tools more useful for the new NW game, STO is a testbed for this . The only link he really has to STO is they trot him out occasionally , because they believe the player base still believes ad respect him . He's is basiscally a department head of a larger section and parts of STO fall under his domain.

     

     

    I'm not sure what you mean. It was designed as a p2p game with constant "story-based" content. We paid for the game and they gave us "story-based" content in the form of missions. Now it is f2p with the absence of content, which is where the problems have come from. 

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by Falcon760
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by Falcon760

    My point is that Cryptic's original game design doesn't fit with free to play and doesn't really hold a game.  That original design is "story-based".  It's when you pay a fee and they give you constant content to play through.  Well now the model/design has changed completely, except once you eliminate the "story-based" design, there's nothing else to this game.  Nothing substantial anyway. 

    And honestly, when Dan Stahl said that the Cryptic personnel had doubled in size, that must have been an exaggeration or something.   I don't see how they can have more people working on the game but less to do.   Months go by and there is nothing added or changed to the game except superficial specials.  Bugs aren't fixed.  I would have to estimate that there are less people working on STO than before and most of those probably double while working on Neverwinter or something. 

    It was designed as a f2p model from the outset. The story content was provided as a molifier until they could implement the UCG. So your premiss and logic are incorrect. While I agree the game is bare bones, Cryptic's envisioned model is the UCG and p2p . Now that it is f2p , it is all about UCG and C-Store content.

    As for Dstahl , he's a rehire who is incharge of make the UCG tools more useful for the new NW game, STO is a testbed for this . The only link he really has to STO is they trot him out occasionally , because they believe the player base still believes ad respect him . He's is basiscally a department head of a larger section and parts of STO fall under his domain.

     

     

    I'm not sure what you mean. It was designed as a p2p game with constant "story-based" content. We paid for the game and they gave us "story-based" content in the form of missions. Now it is f2p with the absence of content, which is where the problems have come from. 

    And that my friend is why the foundary exists.  If you think there is a lack of content, then make your own content.

    Play A Will and a Barclay.  Trust me, it is hilarious and an excellent example of player generated content..

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior Member Posts: 290



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    And that my friend is why the foundary exists.  If you think there is a lack of content, then make your own content.


    No thank you. I have had the displeasure of trying a few of the UGC missions in STO and was very unimpressed. The decent ones are very few and very far between. Personally, I enjoy a consistent storyline that progresses in an MMO. People/places/races/Trek "history" are handled differently from author to author and is immersion breaking.

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    And that my friend is why the foundary exists.  If you think there is a lack of content, then make your own content.


     


    No thank you. I have had the displeasure of trying a few of the UGC missions in STO and was very unimpressed. The decent ones are very few and very far between. Personally, I enjoy a consistent storyline that progresses in an MMO. People/places/races/Trek "history" are handled differently from author to author and is immersion breaking.

    Which is why I recommended "A Will and a Barclay".  That particular episode uses the history correctly, or at least as correctly as any trekkie would want.  Add to that the fact that it is at times hilarious, and you have an excellent mission.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior Member Posts: 290



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Which is why I recommended "A Will and a Barclay".  That particular episode uses the history correctly, or at least as correctly as any trekkie would want.  Add to that the fact that it is at times hilarious, and you have an excellent mission.
     

    Pass. Not interested in the least.

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Which is why I recommended "A Will and a Barclay".  That particular episode uses the history correctly, or at least as correctly as any trekkie would want.  Add to that the fact that it is at times hilarious, and you have an excellent mission.

     

     

    Pass. Not interested in the least.

    Ok then, but just remember that now that you know that there are foundary missions out there that are being added every day, and that a good chunk of them are of high quality, you and everyone reading this can no longer complain about a lack of (quality) content in the game.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • DragonantisDragonantis Member UncommonPosts: 974

    Thx for posting this, was a great watch.

    Everything said made perfect sense!

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior Member Posts: 290


    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Ok then, but just remember that now that you know that there are foundary missions out there that are being added every day, and that a good chunk of them are of high quality, you and everyone reading this can no longer complain about a lack of (quality) content in the game.
     

    Yes, I can continue to complain. I can still say there is a lack of quality content in STO. "Quality" is a subjective term. One man's quality is the next man's crap. I know from my own personal experience that for every 1 decent mission added to STO via UGC, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of garbage missions added. I do not want nor do I have any desire to spend limited gameplay time sifting through nonsense player created content to find a possible gem. This holds no interest for me. Kudos to those people out there that enjoy UGC and have fun playing it. It is not for everyone.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
     

     

    Ok then, but just remember that now that you know that there are foundary missions out there that are being added every day, and that a good chunk of them are of high quality, you and everyone reading this can no longer complain about a lack of (quality) content in the game.

    When did making missions to fill Cryptic's glaring content deficet become the responsiblity of the paying player base ? Yes , the paying the playerbase. Only Gold members can use the UCG. That means all those LTS that spent $300 or are paying monthly, can create these quality content. WOW ! What a deal in a F2P game! Hard core fanboi's of any particular IP, have to be the dumbest people on the face of the earth. P.T Barnum was correct.

    image
  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
     

     

    Ok then, but just remember that now that you know that there are foundary missions out there that are being added every day, and that a good chunk of them are of high quality, you and everyone reading this can no longer complain about a lack of (quality) content in the game.

    When did making missions to fill Cryptic's glaring content deficet become the responsiblity of the paying player base ? Yes , the paying the playerbase. Only Gold members can use the UCG. That means all those LTS that spent $300 or are paying monthly, can create these quality content. WOW ! What a deal in a F2P game! Hard core fanboi's of any particular IP, have to be the dumbest people on the face of the earth. P.T Barnum was correct.

    You know, that would make a compelling argument if it were actually true.  I am a silver member, and am capable of playing foundary missions.

    Sorry, but you really should actually try playing a game before complaining about it.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    I see reading compression is not your strong suit. Defending the indefensible is not admirable, it's just a waste of time. I'm glad you enjoy the game, have fun. No one mentioned who can or can't play UCG missions, but who can make the missions was the point. UCG without filters and supervision for the most part is garbage and after enough time passes, becomes an even larger pile of garbage one has to wade through. So stand down CDF recruit.

    image
  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    I see reading compression is not your strong suit. Defending the indefensible is not admirable, it's just a waste of time. I'm glad you enjoy the game, have fun. No one mentioned who can or can't play UCG missions, but who can make the missions was the point. UCG without filters and supervision for the most part is garbage and after enough time passes, becomes an even larger pile of garbage one has to wade through. So stand down CDF recruit.

    Again, your complete lack of knowledge about what you are complaining about makes your argument pretty much null and void.

    It is stated quite clear in the f2p matrix that gold players can create up to 8 foundary missions at a time and unlock more slots to make more of them with either real cash or in game currency, and silver players have to buy the slots with either real cash or in game currency in order to start making foundary missions.  It is also stated on the same matrix that both gold and silver players have unlimited access to play foundary missions.

    When accessing foundary missions, you are taken to an available missions tab siilar to the one you normally have with non foundary missions, but with filters that allow you organize foundary missions with stuff like most played, best reviewed, newest, etc.  There is no supervision on making foundary missions, I will give you that, but there are PLENTY of tutorials on how to make foundary missions.

    So, with the exception of the whole "supervision while making foundary missions" issue (and quite frankly who needs that when you have tutorials), I have disproven your ENTIRE argument against foundary missions.

    Now for a little bit of "turnabout is fair play"

    *ahem*

    I see that doing proper research before constructing an argument is not your strong suit.  Making empty claims that are easily disproven is not admirable and a waste of everyone's time, both yours and mine.  I'm sorry you don't enjoy the game, so have fun with whatever games you do enjoy.  Everybody can play UGC missions, and it is as clear as crystal on the f2p matrix that gold players can make them from the get go and that silver players can spend either real money or in game money to start making them.  The tab that allows you to access the UGC has plenty of filters, and people who create UGC have access to plenty of tutorials.  It is easy to avoid the garbage with the filters, and proper use of them filters out any garbage missions you do not want to see, no matter how many of them there are.  So stand down.

    P.S.  It's UGC, not UCG.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,363

    IMO and my opinion only, Star Trek Online never has lived up to my expectations.  I wanted to like the game so much and gave it chance after chance.  Recently I went back because people said its changed and gotten better.  They were small insignificant changes.  The game is still well beyond any reasonable expectations I had for it.   For me STO was a much bigger let down that SWTOR because SWTOR was at least entertaining until the endgame.

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
     

     

    Ok then, but just remember that now that you know that there are foundary missions out there that are being added every day, and that a good chunk of them are of high quality, you and everyone reading this can no longer complain about a lack of (quality) content in the game.

    When did making missions to fill Cryptic's glaring content deficet become the responsiblity of the paying player base ? Yes , the paying the playerbase. Only Gold members can use the UCG. That means all those LTS that spent $300 or are paying monthly, can create these quality content. WOW ! What a deal in a F2P game! Hard core fanboi's of any particular IP, have to be the dumbest people on the face of the earth. P.T Barnum was correct.

    You know, that would make a compelling argument if it were actually true.  I am a silver member, and am capable of playing foundary missions.

    Sorry, but you really should actually try playing a game before complaining about it.

    The red part is important in the context of the statement . So the logic follows , if you are a gold member or LTS you can craft UGC. Since you are silver you can not, fine not specificly pointed out, you are a paying member.  Either way the point being this is a very distasteful practice on the part of Cryptic. To top it off they then are claiming the rights to any stories generated there-in .  Such a wonderful game , how come you aren't a gold member or LTS ? Since, obviously you feel so justified an superior in your position ? Of course you fall back to the default , you've never played the game , or spent enough time in the game to know .  Are you sure about that ? 

    image
  • CacaphonyCacaphony Member Posts: 738

    I thought it worked out that former subscribers who are now silver members after the F2P switch were sort of "grandfathered" in with foundry access but limited on the number of missions they can create, and new players aren't allowed access. Could be wrong, but I thought that its how it was.

  • ShardWarriorShardWarrior Member Posts: 290

     


    Originally posted by MadDemon64 It is stated quite clear in the f2p matrix that gold players can create up to 8 foundary missions at a time and unlock more slots to make more of them with either real cash or in game currency, and silver players have to buy the slots with either real cash or in game currency in order to start making foundary missions.

     

    Underlined for emphasis. Cryptic is still charging money to build content, no matter how you slice it. Why anyone would pay real money to write content for a content starved game is beyond me. Especially those stupid enough to be a gold subber.

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    Originally posted by MadDemon64
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     



    Originally posted by MadDemon64
     

     

    Ok then, but just remember that now that you know that there are foundary missions out there that are being added every day, and that a good chunk of them are of high quality, you and everyone reading this can no longer complain about a lack of (quality) content in the game.

    When did making missions to fill Cryptic's glaring content deficet become the responsiblity of the paying player base ? Yes , the paying the playerbase. Only Gold members can use the UCG. That means all those LTS that spent $300 or are paying monthly, can create these quality content. WOW ! What a deal in a F2P game! Hard core fanboi's of any particular IP, have to be the dumbest people on the face of the earth. P.T Barnum was correct.

    You know, that would make a compelling argument if it were actually true.  I am a silver member, and am capable of playing foundary missions.

    Sorry, but you really should actually try playing a game before complaining about it.

    The red part is important in the context of the statement . So the logic follows , if you are a gold member or LTS you can craft UGC. Since you are silver you can not, fine not specificly pointed out, you are a paying member.  Either way the point being this is a very distasteful practice on the part of Cryptic. To top it off they then are claiming the rights to any stories generated there-in .  Such a wonderful game , how come you aren't a gold member or LTS ? Since, obviously you feel so justified an superior in your position ? Of course you fall back to the default , you've never played the game , or spent enough time in the game to know .  Are you sure about that ? 

    Ah, once again you fail to pay attention.  You can create foundary missions if you have the slots to make them, and you can buy them with in game dilithium.  It is stated quite clearly that this is a viable option.

    And yes I am sure of my belief that you have not played the game, since your argument is full of holes that nobody who actually spent time in the game would make.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Originally posted by ShardWarrior

     


    Originally posted by MadDemon64 It is stated quite clear in the f2p matrix that gold players can create up to 8 foundary missions at a time and unlock more slots to make more of them with either real cash or in game currency, and silver players have to buy the slots with either real cash or in game currency in order to start making foundary missions.

     

    Underlined for emphasis. Cryptic is still charging money to build content, no matter how you slice it. Why anyone would pay real money to write content for a content starved game is beyond me. Especially those stupid enough to be a gold subber.

    In game Dilithium isn't money.  It is possible to create foundary missions by buying slots to create foundary missions with Dilithium.  Therefore, Cryptic isn't forcing you to pay money to create your own content, just making it an alternative option to playing numerous missions to gather enough Dilithium to make your own content.

    Seriously, why is everyone in this thread who complains about the foundary making this simple mistake?  Read the f2p matrix people, it explains this pretty clearly.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

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