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Pure arrogance will destroy this game
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I agree that when people fail to apply a critical eye to anything, even things that they really really enjoy, they often set themselves up for disappointment.
However, I am not sure what you mean by saying GW2 is a "mostly-traditional MMO". I've played a lot of MMOs, for years, and I just don't see this except in the broadest sense- there are characters doing things, there are static quests at renown hearts and many events that are called dynamic but are more like a pendulum, there is gear you equip and there are swords and magic and mobs to kill etc. Maybe you could clarify what you see, specifically, that leads you to this conclusion?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
First off people like you need to understand this little word called "hyperbole". Second of all some people use terms like savior as a self-serving edifice to describe the severe lack of innovation this genre has shown sine the release of WoW.
Now to refute your claim, I suspect you want to use the term "innovative" instead of revolutionary, as very few people claim GW2 to be the latter, even the Marketing Director used the term Innovative so I will stick to this term so as not to confuse anyone. Here is a list of innovative features in GW2 (I will only use the most basic of features because if I used more it would encompass an extremely large post.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
"Here is a list of innovative features in GW2"
"Removal of the Raid centric model as the only form of end game content."
mmos have already did this,its nothing new
you just dont hear about them because the popular ones are the ones that follow the raiding end game model
"A design concept that allows a friend of 1 server to play with someone from another server, thereby also eliminating the dreaded "hours" long queue to play the game."
this also isnt anything new.i could of did the same thing before i left world of warcraft with realid
Dark Pony ..... this is what I think of your witty, "im sitting on the fence" comments.
[mod edit]
It's getting old.
The only arrgoance that will kill this game is that of the elitest fans who take anything A-net says as the gosphel set in stone that GW2 will be entirely different from other MMOs (such as Wow), and will completely revolutionize and revitialize the genere. I feel those fans are writing a check full of promises GW2 can't cash, and that this will come back to bite what would have otherwise been a decent (not amazing) game on the ass.
AgreedIt might destroy a few people's experiences but overall if you want to play a game like this you find a close knit group of people and you really don't have to worry about the rest of the server.
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
That's what happens if a large chunk of the gaming community gets enthusiastic about a game, and convince their friends etc. which causes a snowball effect in hype level because humans are like sheep following the herd. Look at WoW, that game was/is extremely popular but not thanks to its inventions (rather combining good feats of other games in a convenient way and making it accesible to all types of players, veterans and noobs in the genre alike), and definitely not thanks to its great community (larger numbers of players means more jerks included).
That said I must say that during the BWE I didn't see any trash talk / trolling etc. at all in the regional chat channels, as opposed to any other betas I've participated in where the chat was flowing faster than I could scroll back and read stuffs if I wanted to read that crap.
well then, that makes it very simple for you then, go back to WoW. Obviously thats the only thing you will compare it to, or will only discuss points that do somewhat compare to WoW, so you can call it a "WoW clone". GW2 isn't some life saving game, it's bringing a new edge to the genre, and implementing things that have worked before, that most companies denied existed.
It is very obvious you don't care for GW2, so why do you post on it so so much?
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
First, let's remember that those of us on the forums represent a massive minority in terms of overall community for any game. Stating that the GW2 fanbase is more zealous than any other game in the past or present is a tad silly. We've seen the same blind zeal for numerous games for numerous years now. We're just coming to a point where it's past being old. Secondly, the community in game during the BWE I was in was amazing. It was the only beta event I had been in for years where folks were constantly jabbing on how "WoW did X better", "WoW sucks, go back to WoW", and other numerous and varied ignorant comments. If anything, this was the first time since AC1 I actually felt part of a positive community, and actually wanted to group up with random strangers to do events.
I'd say that is the evolution point, the fact that a positive community can exist because there is basically no competition within the confines of PvE. Any other mmo over the past decade or so now required some form of compeition when it came to mob spawns in PvE. Thankfully, that's mostly coming to an end in GW2.
GW2 isn't revolutionary, I don't really think any mmo can be at this point, unless they really go off the wall. Each game has a chance at being another step in the evolutionary chain though, and GW2 is. I would argue that GW2 is not a traditional mmo, at least in the post WoW era. It simply does enough differently to warrant a distinction that it is not a traditional themepark.
On a quick final note, I would expect some folks from ANet to be arrogant. If you look at the most successful people in the world, the one trait almost all of them share is arrogance. Arrogance isn't a bad trait, it's just if someone allows their arrogance to get in the way of their vision and stagnate, then it becomes a hinderance.
this was very shocking and not to mention everyone was using their rez.. on me on my pet.. people were not talking a whole lot but everyone was being very helpful and this only added to what a great time I hade in the BWE
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I guess it depends if people like the direction of innovation or not.
Personally, out of those features you've listed, I only liked two of them.
I'm not going to try and refute them or debate whether they are good bad or not, because it comes down to personal choice.. but i will say this, I don't understand why the trinity system is so bad. I thought it was perfect. RPG does stand for Role Playing after all. As in, playing a defined role. If there were defined roles in GW2 I would definitely see it in a different light.
I think that because so many companies have tried to copy WoW and have failed, the community has created this fallacy of if it is similar to WoW it is bad. If WoW vanilla 2.0 came out, with updated features and graphics, I think it could out do the success of the orginal.
Cherry picking is the term that comes to mind here. However name me one game that encompasses all the features I listed?
Im still waiting! Me thinks some one needs to consult their handy dictionary to see what the word innovative means. Yet another hater thatfurther proves my point.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Arrogance is when people, player and developer equally, seam to think that a mold or game design formula constitute a genre.
Trinity, WoW raids, "tab targeting" combat, xp/gear grind, when i see them come to say those are the genre, and that nothing can possibly exist for this gaming genre than those, to the point that any other possibility should not even be envisaged, when its in fact proven wrong in history, i think this is pure arrogance. Be it by ignorance from the player or greediness or lazyness from the developers.
Taken directly from the first online dictionary
ar·ro·gant (
r
-g
nt)adj.
I couldnt care less if you "like" them or not, I was refuting your claim that GW2 wasnt innovative to which I did a mastrful job of doing. Now you turn the tables and say I dont like those innovations. Furthering my evidence that I refuted your original argument. You can either play the game or not. You are also entitled to your own opinions but you are not entitled to your own truths.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Lol yeah,makes me wonder where he saw all these over zealous fans that were ruining his experience because most of my time in the BWE I didnt hear much chat on either end of the spectrum.
How hard is it to scroll past forum posts if that is what is bugging him.
I play games that I like,I do not care if anyone else likes them or hates them with or without a passion.
Oh my...
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
And considering the thread title, we've officially come full circle. Well done, folks.
on the trinity --
pvp - many people have noticed the same problems have plagued us from game to game for many years. often when a game releases we are faced with unkillable healers and tanks that are for the most part considered inneffectual or situational at best. the trinity causes many pvp balance problems that simply don't exist under more homogenized systems.
this is why we so often see the phrases "the game is balanced around XvX combat not YvY." a more homogenized system of classes could theoretically be much easier to balance around any assortment of numbers of players fighting from very few to much larger numbers.
pve - i'm a tank, do as i say or i drop group.. have fun replacing me. <- this is one problem.. there are ways to solve it for sure but it is just one issue people are having trouble with in many games right now.
another being that some people like the excitement of not knowing exactly who the monster is going to attack next. going into every fight knowing who the monsters will attack and what you must do to prevent the death of that person is a thing many find boring and repetitive.
--- i am aware there are positives to the trinity system, but there are absolutely drawbacks as well. some of us simply do not enjoy paying the drawback costs in our games and are very eager to dispose of the trinity system for this reason.
I read that article - I don't believe that he was dis-regarding other innovations such as Rift's as much as pointing out the lack of it in some other MMO's - RIFT IMO would be one of the few that have taken some risks that worked out well since WoW . Yeah he didn't go into names post WoW but he didn't need to, to get his point across. I didn't think he came across as arrogant.
I've played Rift - it was good and I hope they continue but I need a bigger difference between WoW mechanics and Rift and GW2 is spot on for ME. I think its very clear he was pointing the finger at SWTOR and others without naming it in terms of a lack of innovation. SWTOR has some new features but it plays much the same as WOW and left much of us underwhelmed.
GW2 has enough changes to be innovative IMO without changing it up so much as to be unrecognizable in terms of what an MMO is in 2012.
Most of us like to pretend that Rift never happened.
The dynamic events in GW2 are lightyears ahead of the stagnant DEs in Rift. And the combat in Rift is a snoozefest. I managed to top the DPS parse constantly by pressing 1 button. So boring. So yeah, its a fair call that GW2 is the most exciting thing to happen in the genre since WoW.
Also, I am pretty sure it is the job of the Global Brand Director of a company to hype its product. What did you expect?
I thought that everything he said was pretty self evident and something that most in the MMO community have been saying for years now. I'm a little shocked that anyone would find any of those statements untoward or arrogant.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Sorry my friend, but I think you may be confusing me with someone else. I never said GW2 wasn't innovative. : ) Infact I frequently applaud GW2 for being a strong decent game, which I'm kind of on the fence about. I just jumped in to give my own opinion on the points you listed. I apologise for any confusion.
Doubtful. GW2 delivers on its promises for a large portion of its inteded audience. You'll never please everyone, but it's gotten ridiculously good reviews so far.
I agree it's the same thing that gets spewed here on the forums after every single MMO release since wow.. but now because a developer says it it's arrogant and uncalled for or whatever..... right
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I don't see any more arrogance in that post than in pretty much any MMO developer blog I've read for any game since...well ever. Before WoW, people said the same things, but used EQ as the benchmark.
As for Rift...Rift's events were a step in the right direction, but horribly flawed. The ONE good thing about that game was a brilliantly inventive class system that I think more games could benefit from.
I agree I dunno why people get so stuck on the rift aspect of Rift heh.. The real "feature" i enjoyed the most from Rift was the soul system.. such a great idea and worked very very well, unless you are the type who loves being locked down into a single role of course
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg