The tauren and trolls have become increasingly mistrusting of the antics of Hellscream. Baine approaches the night elves about an alliance between trolls, elves, worgen and tauren, in an effort to stop the bloody war between the horde and the alliance that constantly trashes their beloved world. They call themselves the Protectorate of Azeroth, and vow to guard the way of the Earthmother.
The Alliance goes on with gnomes, dwarves, men, and Draenei, and the Horde with orcs, goblins, blood elves, and the forsaken.
I don't know much about wow lore, but that could probably work, and would offer up some pretty disparate factions.
IMO that would only work if the 3rd faction was a one time opt in. In a game as old and established as WoW, you seriously risk alienating a large part of your playerbase by removing them from the faction that they've grown attached to over years of raising their characters, without giving them the option to keep their loyalties in place.
Perhaps a rebel alliance that allows any race from horde or alliance with a one time betrayal system could work. But I doubt any mainstream developer would go to such radical lengths to force established players into a faction they may not want to be a part of.
MMORPG players aren't particularly fond of being forced to do things against their wishes (then again, who is?)
It appears that 3 faction world pvp is the new trend in mmos. My question is not if 3 faction world pvp will come to WOW but when. And when it comes, how will it look like?
If you were chosen as the manager to oversee the development of 3 faction world pvp in WOW how would you impliment it and what would it look like?
It's not really a new trend, DAOC started a 3 faction pvp mmo years ago. It's just taken companies 10 years to get the idea it's a nice balance for pvp.
It was actually Anarchy Online that started the 3 faction pvp trend(it released about 6 months before DAOC). In my mind it was superior in the fact that you could talk with group with the other factions (note there was a neutral faction), and even defect. It even had FFA areas where there was no "Suppression Gas" and in those areas even pvp between the same faction was allowed.
no AO had 2 factions and neutrals, not the same thing. Also it didnt have pvp at launch, and added it later. Tower wars is very different to RVR/
If blizzard tried adding a third faction they would have to rewrite there whole games history, they can't do it so they won't. They'll most likely wait for Titan to try this and knowing the abysmal way blizzard hacks up pvp they will fail.
GL with a company that hasn't gotten anything right since 2004.
Just saying, they're still the kings of the MMO industry, and possibly other industry's as well. So obviously they have gotten much right since 2004.
I doubt they'll do 3 factions PvP. It would work for regular battlegrounds, but would cause havok in the full world and in the leveling.
Everything in WoW is laid in twos. For every questing area that leans heavily to one side in the vanilla world, there's another that leans to the other side in the same level range, and in cases where the questing is done by both sides in the same area, each one has their own towns and outposts, plus sometimes a neutral one.
Making WoW a 3 factions game would mean redesigning the whole world to create new areas for the third faction in the level ranges where areas are not shared, and new towns/outposts equivalent to the ones that already exist (along with everyhing that implies, for quests line, vendors, auction houses and so on). The location of main cities can be problematic since they're seem to be linked in twos (note that my knowledge of WoW is up to WotLK) as in SW - IF (tram), TB - OG (these are the ones "less" connected but still close to each other), UC - Silvermoon (teleport) and Darnassus - Exodar (boats to both share the same pier), and main city in WotLK is also divided in alliance-horde. So, basically, reorganizing the races on 3 factions (not hard, I always felt that undead - blood elves and probably worgen now could form their own faction) would be easy... remaking the world for the 3 factions to work (not just end game but whole leveling process), not so easy.
If anything, maybe their next MMO would be 3 factions.. WoW, very much doubt it.
Now, what they could do if they wanted to, is a 3 way battleground, maybe when you join you're assigned to one of 3 sides along with people from both factions..
The levelling problem is quickly solved by adding new continent that cater to the third faction. It is quite the work, yes, but less than re-re-tooling the all world again.
So like Pandaria could have been the neutral faction home, level 1-90 zones and home to some neutral races. Either make specific neutral races or permits existing races to be also neutral as many WoW races have spinoff and groups that are not part of Horde or Alliance. (Grimtotem taurens, Goblins, different troll tribes than dark spears, non-gilnean worgens, non-Stormwind humans etc... why would this disparate group band together, however, is another story).
Alternatively, they could reshuffle existing content in three factions. It would not be ideal, but they might succeed. Outlands and Northrend already have less bi-polar content with many regions having common quest hubs.
But yeah... while this would seriously rock, I am doubtful Blizzard would see a significant gain for what is a great deal of work.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Three factions could be implemented in the same way Rift plans to do it, basically 3-way battlegrounds. You'd still have the Horde/Alliance factions, but the 3 new factions within the new battlegrounds would represent different causes/reasons/points of view for why they are fighting the battle. Then the player could choose which of these 3 they want to fight for.
Ofcourse this means you'd have Orcs & Humans fighting on the same team vs other orcs/humans/nelfs/etc... but then alot of wow's lore already had the Alliance and Horde working together for the greater good at times.
Overlooking the lore, it would mean you'd finally get 3-way battles, players could "choose" a side they wanted to represent and then these different factions could have a bunch of new items/gear etc to grind for & eventually with time, they would gain their own credibility in the lore the longer they were around.
It could work for sure. Just needs the will to do it.
Wow servers grind to halt when a new raid opens and everyone rushes over to take a look. Wows engine can't cope with large scale pvp. Also they've micromanaged pvp for 1vs1 "balance" which is counter productive to good large scale pvp.
no AO had 2 factions and neutrals, not the same thing. Also it didnt have pvp at launch, and added it later. Tower wars is very different to RVR/
Vov , Neutral is only true faction in AO , when you choose Omlets / Clams you cant swap back to neutral anymore ,ever ,but you can swap as Omlet / Clam till lvl 200.
Exactly copy what rift is doing, gw2 or the secret world.
Or have a permanent fucking massive huge zone like one or 2 daoc frontiers you port to thats cross server always on going. And like rift you would have to join one of 3 factions.
My off the cuff idea is how aboutz blizzard spends some of its banked capital on a completely new faction and blow us all out the water. Though we all know they are not pioneers really they are just copy cats of what works.
Factions are just fail imho, 3 factions, 4 factions, 10 factions, it doesnt matter, factions are a lazy and artificial way of creating a conflict where it might not exist, it also limits player freedom, factionless MMOs with the possibility for factions to be created by the players themselves is where its at, it creates intricate politics and its just generally a lot more fun, than being put in a camp where you have no choice but follow the carrot on the stick.
FFA PvP which is what a factionless system would be has proven itself to be fail.
No that is not what it FFA PvP means at all, not in context of MMOs, this term is associated with attacking anyone without consequence, which is exactly what happens in even most faction based games like WoW, where you can just attack the other faction on a pvp server, if in WoW I move to a contested area which the other faction uses to level then its FFA PVP I can attack the other faction without any consequence, by the same definition factionless would be no different.
Factionless pvp with a chaotic system works a charm and is without a doubt the best system out there, where you can choose to attack someone else, but there is no incentive to attack unless the pros outweight the cons ( i.e. you are at war ), 2 or 3 faction PVP is meaningless, you attack the other faction because the designers told you to attack them, and when you hover over their name they are "red" ( i.e. good to attack ), its pointless and adds nothing.
With persistant objectives within factionless system it means people will band together politically, or just be neutral, and they will actually fight for something.
Lineage 2 is a great example of an MMO with one of the best PVP systems out there, lacked work on everything else, but people created their won alliances, wars, politics and people switching sides at the last minute made it all much more fun, the game didnt have to tell you who to attack or who to be friends with, it also meant that your reputation was very important, you didnt want to be known as a douche basically or if you did you better have the power to back it up. But it didnt mean that everyone was just killing everyone constantly, if you had no part in big politics and were just playing the game without interfering with it then no one would come around and just kill you for no reason, you were assumed neutral until your actions showed otherwise.
It appears that 3 faction world pvp is the new trend in mmos. My question is not if 3 faction world pvp will come to WOW but when. And when it comes, how will it look like?
If you were chosen as the manager to oversee the development of 3 faction world pvp in WOW how would you impliment it and what would it look like?
They would have to do what Trion is doing in Rift.
3 NPC factions, you pick which one you join up with, specific to a particular zone (perhaps like a WG/TB) and they'd have to enable cross-horde/alliance communication specifically within your chosen faction.
It'd work, and MoP would have been a great time to introduce it, but instead they went with a 2 faction system with the Pandaran to match up with Horde/Alliance.
Lineage 2 still had griefing and did not do that great in the West. As soon as you have griefing and ganking the game is back to niche and hard to call a success.
Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by joocheeseIt appears that 3 faction world pvp is the new trend in mmos. My question is not if 3 faction world pvp will come to WOW but when. And when it comes, how will it look like?If you were chosen as the manager to oversee the development of 3 faction world pvp in WOW how would you impliment it and what would it look like?
They would have to do what Trion is doing in Rift.
3 NPC factions, you pick which one you join up with, specific to a particular zone (perhaps like a WG/TB) and they'd have to enable cross-horde/alliance communication specifically within your chosen faction.
It'd work, and MoP would have been a great time to introduce it, but instead they went with a 2 faction system with the Pandaran to match up with Horde/Alliance.
Don't forget land ownership and farms. And Pokemon.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If faction based PvP - or RvR - is a sudden trend who's calling the shots and wants every online game have it?
Leaders of the media corporate culture who wants to condition us players for WW3 scenario?
For most MMOs it makes sense to me but when I read about TESO getting that too I started to wonder if who ever is in charge of controlling the media has it worked up like a do or die plan for game studios.
10 or 20 years down the road and graphics won't be much different than RL distinction between *just a game* and RL will melt away. And who knows maybe we're all fighting against each other for real (aka: wargames) so trend or not it's getting a bit too much.
This isn't related to WoW alone, but I just saw this being discussed on the frontpage after I had those thoughts.
Ofcourse this means you'd have Orcs & Humans fighting on the same team vs other orcs/humans/nelfs/etc... but then alot of wow's lore already had the Alliance and Horde working together for the greater good at times.
Overlooking the lore, it would mean you'd finally get 3-way battles, players could "choose" a side they wanted to represent and then these different factions could have a bunch of new items/gear etc to grind for & eventually with time, they would gain their own credibility in the lore the longer they were around.
It could work for sure. Just needs the will to do it.
This would not be so much of a stretch. In the Argent Crusade Vs Twilight Hammer conflict, for example, you have all races fighting Vs all other races as either group does not place any restriction on who can join beside ideals.
So 3-way battelgrounds using the fringe factions like those would work rather well I think and would also beef up the importance of the side factions in WoW, something that would enrich the game in my opinion.
Like Argent Crusade Vs Twilight Hammer Vs Cult of the Damned. Or add the Scarlets in there (a bit harder though as scarlets' are mostly all humans).
It would be hard to bring this concept outside though :P
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Comments
IMO that would only work if the 3rd faction was a one time opt in. In a game as old and established as WoW, you seriously risk alienating a large part of your playerbase by removing them from the faction that they've grown attached to over years of raising their characters, without giving them the option to keep their loyalties in place.
Perhaps a rebel alliance that allows any race from horde or alliance with a one time betrayal system could work. But I doubt any mainstream developer would go to such radical lengths to force established players into a faction they may not want to be a part of.
MMORPG players aren't particularly fond of being forced to do things against their wishes (then again, who is?)
how is 3 faction pvp a new trend if it has been around since 2001?
no AO had 2 factions and neutrals, not the same thing. Also it didnt have pvp at launch, and added it later. Tower wars is very different to RVR/
Because it hasn't been a "trend" since 2001.
Just saying, they're still the kings of the MMO industry, and possibly other industry's as well. So obviously they have gotten much right since 2004.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
The levelling problem is quickly solved by adding new continent that cater to the third faction. It is quite the work, yes, but less than re-re-tooling the all world again.
So like Pandaria could have been the neutral faction home, level 1-90 zones and home to some neutral races. Either make specific neutral races or permits existing races to be also neutral as many WoW races have spinoff and groups that are not part of Horde or Alliance. (Grimtotem taurens, Goblins, different troll tribes than dark spears, non-gilnean worgens, non-Stormwind humans etc... why would this disparate group band together, however, is another story).
Alternatively, they could reshuffle existing content in three factions. It would not be ideal, but they might succeed. Outlands and Northrend already have less bi-polar content with many regions having common quest hubs.
But yeah... while this would seriously rock, I am doubtful Blizzard would see a significant gain for what is a great deal of work.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Three factions could be implemented in the same way Rift plans to do it, basically 3-way battlegrounds. You'd still have the Horde/Alliance factions, but the 3 new factions within the new battlegrounds would represent different causes/reasons/points of view for why they are fighting the battle. Then the player could choose which of these 3 they want to fight for.
Ofcourse this means you'd have Orcs & Humans fighting on the same team vs other orcs/humans/nelfs/etc... but then alot of wow's lore already had the Alliance and Horde working together for the greater good at times.
Overlooking the lore, it would mean you'd finally get 3-way battles, players could "choose" a side they wanted to represent and then these different factions could have a bunch of new items/gear etc to grind for & eventually with time, they would gain their own credibility in the lore the longer they were around.
It could work for sure. Just needs the will to do it.
Vov , Neutral is only true faction in AO , when you choose Omlets / Clams you cant swap back to neutral anymore ,ever ,but you can swap as Omlet / Clam till lvl 200.
Let's internet
Exactly copy what rift is doing, gw2 or the secret world.
Or have a permanent fucking massive huge zone like one or 2 daoc frontiers you port to thats cross server always on going. And like rift you would have to join one of 3 factions.
My off the cuff idea is how aboutz blizzard spends some of its banked capital on a completely new faction and blow us all out the water. Though we all know they are not pioneers really they are just copy cats of what works.
Factions are just fail imho, 3 factions, 4 factions, 10 factions, it doesnt matter, factions are a lazy and artificial way of creating a conflict where it might not exist, it also limits player freedom, factionless MMOs with the possibility for factions to be created by the players themselves is where its at, it creates intricate politics and its just generally a lot more fun, than being put in a camp where you have no choice but follow the carrot on the stick.
FFA PvP which is what a factionless system would be has proven itself to be fail.
No that is not what it FFA PvP means at all, not in context of MMOs, this term is associated with attacking anyone without consequence, which is exactly what happens in even most faction based games like WoW, where you can just attack the other faction on a pvp server, if in WoW I move to a contested area which the other faction uses to level then its FFA PVP I can attack the other faction without any consequence, by the same definition factionless would be no different.
Factionless pvp with a chaotic system works a charm and is without a doubt the best system out there, where you can choose to attack someone else, but there is no incentive to attack unless the pros outweight the cons ( i.e. you are at war ), 2 or 3 faction PVP is meaningless, you attack the other faction because the designers told you to attack them, and when you hover over their name they are "red" ( i.e. good to attack ), its pointless and adds nothing.
With persistant objectives within factionless system it means people will band together politically, or just be neutral, and they will actually fight for something.
Lineage 2 is a great example of an MMO with one of the best PVP systems out there, lacked work on everything else, but people created their won alliances, wars, politics and people switching sides at the last minute made it all much more fun, the game didnt have to tell you who to attack or who to be friends with, it also meant that your reputation was very important, you didnt want to be known as a douche basically or if you did you better have the power to back it up. But it didnt mean that everyone was just killing everyone constantly, if you had no part in big politics and were just playing the game without interfering with it then no one would come around and just kill you for no reason, you were assumed neutral until your actions showed otherwise.
They would have to do what Trion is doing in Rift.
3 NPC factions, you pick which one you join up with, specific to a particular zone (perhaps like a WG/TB) and they'd have to enable cross-horde/alliance communication specifically within your chosen faction.
It'd work, and MoP would have been a great time to introduce it, but instead they went with a 2 faction system with the Pandaran to match up with Horde/Alliance.
Factionless pvp is fail. Plenty of games for that Darkfall is one go enjoy.
Lineage 2 still had griefing and did not do that great in the West. As soon as you have griefing and ganking the game is back to niche and hard to call a success.
3 NPC factions, you pick which one you join up with, specific to a particular zone (perhaps like a WG/TB) and they'd have to enable cross-horde/alliance communication specifically within your chosen faction.
It'd work, and MoP would have been a great time to introduce it, but instead they went with a 2 faction system with the Pandaran to match up with Horde/Alliance.
Don't forget land ownership and farms. And Pokemon.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If faction based PvP - or RvR - is a sudden trend who's calling the shots and wants every online game have it?
Leaders of the media corporate culture who wants to condition us players for WW3 scenario?
For most MMOs it makes sense to me but when I read about TESO getting that too I started to wonder if who ever is in charge of controlling the media has it worked up like a do or die plan for game studios.
10 or 20 years down the road and graphics won't be much different than RL distinction between *just a game* and RL will melt away. And who knows maybe we're all fighting against each other for real (aka: wargames) so trend or not it's getting a bit too much.
This isn't related to WoW alone, but I just saw this being discussed on the frontpage after I had those thoughts.
Faction 1: Alliance
Faction 2: Horde
Faction 3: Murlocks and Naga!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
daoc faled b/c of this
This would not be so much of a stretch. In the Argent Crusade Vs Twilight Hammer conflict, for example, you have all races fighting Vs all other races as either group does not place any restriction on who can join beside ideals.
So 3-way battelgrounds using the fringe factions like those would work rather well I think and would also beef up the importance of the side factions in WoW, something that would enrich the game in my opinion.
Like Argent Crusade Vs Twilight Hammer Vs Cult of the Damned. Or add the Scarlets in there (a bit harder though as scarlets' are mostly all humans).
It would be hard to bring this concept outside though :P
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"