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interview with egomancer

notalentnotalent Member Posts: 123

did anyone else read this interview?

i dunno it just kinda seems like egomancer isnt too concerned with the game..maybe its just me im really high ::::28::

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Comments

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015

    *Sigh* I just don't understand these guys.

    I've been trying to be somewhat objective towards the Mourning crew, but their current strategy is just bullshit.

    After 3.5 years of developement, the producer basically admits that they are going to be releasing a very buggy game, with many of it's touted features left out.

    Why do this? Why are they so adamant about releasing the game in a matter of days if its obviously in such sad shape? What advantage do they believe it will give them? Sure, their fans have been waiting a long time for it to come out, but releasing it with so many features missing and loaded with bugs will only disappoint them further in my opinion.

    I personally think they are releasing it despite it's condition just to simply quell the scam rumors.

    "Look everybody! Our game really DOES exist! You can't do much with it...but it EXISTS!"

    Well, my hopes for a decent game are pretty much shot. I know it's been said a million times before for various other games, but this time I think it's actually true....I'm not paying for a beta. ::::05::

  • MhorhamMhorham Member Posts: 146

    I really do think there are going to ba alot of demoralized people coming from this new low in mmo game development.

    It looks even worse than I suspected. I really do feel sorry for those fans who kept the faith and stuck by these guys. Ahh well. More games to come this year.

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,356


    Originally posted by darquenblade
    *Sigh* I just don't understand these guys.I've been trying to be somewhat objective towards the Mourning crew, but their current strategy is just bullshit.After 3.5 years of developement, the producer basically admits that they are going to be releasing a very buggy game, with many of it's touted features left out. Why do this? Why are they so adamant about releasing the game in a matter of days if its obviously in such sad shape? What advantage do they believe it will give them? Sure, their fans have been waiting a long time for it to come out, but releasing it with so many features missing and loaded with bugs will only disappoint them further in my opinion. I personally think they are releasing it despite it's condition just to simply quell the scam rumors. "Look everybody! Our game really DOES exist! You can't do much with it...but it EXISTS!"Well, my hopes for a decent game are pretty much shot. I know it's been said a million times before for various other games, but this time I think it's actually true....I'm not paying for a beta. ::::05::

    And the only reason it's going to be released buggy. Is because they know most of the community over on their forums are rabid fanboys. They'll buy the game regardless of how buggy the dev's knew it was. Hoping and praying on a star that some day years down the road. Mourning will actually be 1/10th the game that was promised them. AE/David Bowman did the same thing with Horizons. I can't even fault the dev's. They know they have alot of blind fanatics following thier game that they can cash in on. That's just capitalism at it's best. They've apparently learned the industry well already.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    Well I have said it before and I will say it again. The more I learn about this game the less I understand. If you examine the answers provided by "Egomancer" (that name cracks me up) you can see it is nothing more than a resignation that even they dont have a finished product they are going to release it anyway.

    In my usual broken record fashion I will also repeat for the 100th time, this is not acceptable at this stage of the MMO community's development. This is 2005 not 1998, UO got away with it because EVERYTHING Garriot did was breaking new ground. There is no new ground being broken with this title. There are some interesting ideas about certain systems that frankly I have not seen any conclusive proof will even be in the game. If you take the responses in this interview as evidence it is more likely than not that they will NOT be in the game.

    MP: What is the dev teams attitude towards fixing bugs vs. adding new content to contribute to the overall success of Mourning?

    Egomancer: During the first month our priority will be to fix bugs.

    So again we see the disturbing trend of No Open Beta, so no massive bug fixing or proper stress testing, leading to a pay to play beta for at least the first month... not good enough.

    Egomancer: Well, as a Project Manager (Producer) I have a great responsability for the game so I am constantly doing overtime. As an average I work around 68-70h per week but not all the work is for 'Mourning'.

    Hell I work 2 jobs and more hours than that. How do you expect to develop an MMO from a management position only putting in 70-80 hours. 1 Week out from release you should be collapsing in a feotal position under your desk at 5am.

    MP: What are some of the features that you personally thought would have made the game better, but due to constraints, may have had to do away with?

    Egomancer: Well, first and foremost the feature that I regret that I had to cut out from the release is the city conquering and city sieging. Without it the game is not complete

    But your going to release it anyway.........*sigh*

    MP: In terms of the player made cities, how will it work when submitting plans to the gods? Will there be an in-game toolset or will we have to submit the plans outside of the game? What kind of buildings can we expect to be available for building and who will own them?

    Egomancer: Well, the player made cities will be the next stage after the city siege and city take-over.

    Which isnt done yet so that so called feature is not in either then........ *sigh x 2*

    MP: Also pertaining to player made cities; It has been stated that due to the engine's inefficiency to detect collision, you had to take the realtime player made cities out of the release. Are there any plans to work on a realtime system where players construct the buildings?

    Egomancer: Yes, there are plans as I already described at the previous question.

    So in other words its actually static cities exactly the same as any other MMO on the market..... revolutionary it aint!

    MP: There has been a lot of speculation on the magic system. Some people claim it will be difficult to become a pure caster, but others claim that it will be as easy as assigning points to that school. How rare do you think that pure casters will be?

    Egomancer: It will be the same, at least at the beggining, to become a pure caster. After we balance the combat we may change this.

    This is code for the age old practice of letting the powergamers race off with the beta system and hit level caps just in time to bring in the nerfs (balancing) and disadvantage the rest of the normal community. Gee never seen that happen before... more revolutionary stuff...... NOT!

    MP: What is the next planned set of crafting professions? Can we expect to see some brewers hitting the streets someday in the future?

    Egomancer: Well, we did not look so far in the future. At this point the game has some more pressing things that need to be completed

    That much os pretty obvious to anyone who has been following this game.

    Seriously, I do not see where companies get the hide to keep this up. One day as players we will hopefully wake up and stop pre-ordering these titles and force these companies to lift their game. One day image

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  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015

    Razorback and Roin,

    You guys just pretty much hit the nail on the head in your posts--further extrapolating on what I was venting about in my post.

    I mean, that whole damn interview just pissed me off. I haven't even been anticipating this game, but I feel sorry for those that have.

    For EVERY feature the interviewer asked about, the answer was basically that it was 'unfinished' and wouldn't be there at launch.

    Given that, what the hell have they been doing for the past 4 years?

    Man, if I had actually been anticipating this game, I'd be REALLY pissed. ::::19::

    EDIT: 100th post. Rock on.

  • dgaliendgalien Member Posts: 9

    it seems that they cut out a huge part :/

    I'm a slow walker.
    But newer walk backwards -
    Abe Lincoln

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    I think the main reason I have continued to follow this game and post about it when it only draws personal insults instead of constructive discussion, is that I REALLY wanted this to be everything the devs invisaged.

    The concepts of bloodlines, perma death, heirs, heros, masters, seiging, city building, world interaction, demi gods, etc etc etc all seemed just so great. I am not sugesting for a second that this stuff wont eventually be included as the ideas seemed to fleshed out in enough detail on the forums to get the idea its been thought through.

    But instead we seem to be getting presented with something that lacks so many of the orginal features as to be just another 3rd person MMO release with all the usual promises about how great its going to be in a few months.

    Any heard that before, or is it just me ?

    When you combine this with the fact that I ONLY READ the Mourning forums because I have been so appalled at the behaviour of the moderators, that I did not want to be a part of a community where the information is so totally controlled. I know the the mods from Mourning read these forums and I would bet money that some of the recent one posters that have appeared in here are in some way related to the forums. Its pretty obvious when you read the stuff posted whenever anyone dares question the game in any way.

    I hope the game is the best MMO ever because thats the game I want to play. If a lot f the stuff that has been promised is included then I reckon it might be. But lets face it by the devs own admission now that is at best 1-3 months away. Meanwhile you pay for the development.

    More of the same, when it could have set a new model for releases.

    Who is going to do that I wonder ? Dark and Light ? Vanguard ?

    Or will we be sitting here lamenting the games of 2007 for being released buggy and unfinished ?

    Im just glad my TV works well enough to give an alternative form of entertainment for when I get sick of EQ2 and WoW. My TV didnt need a patch and for 5 years has entertained me faithfully with no extra costs. I guess thats too much to ask of any other product ?

    What a rude, inconsiderate, brainless, flaming, L33T, troll I am for even asking the questions.image

     

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  • stav1stav1 Member Posts: 282

    Razorback,

    Have to (mostly) agree with you on this.

    AS you know i've defended Mourning a number of times on this forum but putting out a game without many of its defining features is not defendable.

    I've preordered so i'll play OB and take a view about how far the game is from being complete. Its a real shame since the ideas and some of the gameplay already implemented (eg. bloodlines) really give Mourning some individual character.

    Thing is, EQ2 and WoW just don't do it for me so not sure what to playimage

    Lets just hope DnL is released with all its promised features...

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334

    I personally don't think that it will be so much of a problem as many think. ( Hi, its me defending the game again ::::18:: )

    Really, if you look at it, many of the features -are- there just not to the fullest degree. Compare that to many of the mainstream games and there isn't much of a new story. WoW, for example, did have PvP which by most of the people on this and other forums was WoW's main point. (Remember all the WOW IS FOR PVP GO HOME CAREBEAR! threads) The PvP, still to this day, has no meaning at all. Just kill the guy for the sake of saying you did. Remember all the really cool armor, battlegrounds, special titles, and other things you would get for PvP? They're working on adding all this, yep, after release.

    PvP will be in, Bloodlines will be in, Orders will be in, fame will be in (as far as I know), the player-made economy, really everything but town sieges/ownership - for now. The game has so many 'defining features' that missing one shouldn't be too much of a heartbreak. If the other features can't keep you entertained long enough for them to finish the sieges/town ownership, then I seriously doubt the game would hold you any longer with it.

    Closing, while I don't think the game will be a skyrocket success story, I don't think it will be nearly as bad (if even possible) as some of the horror stories made here make it sound.

  • stav1stav1 Member Posts: 282

    Actually there are quite a few things that won't be in for release (or for some time afterwards):

    1. city sieging

    2. city creation

    3. city management

    4. fame system

    5. master/apprentice system

    6. player made quests

    7. item degradation

    To my mind, Mourning promised political and social interaction which the cookie-cutter mmorpgs don't have. But without the above features its looking like a PvP cookie-cutter mmorpg.

     

     

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334

    Well, I imagine the first three on your list will go in at basically the same time and are the first things they'll be working on. Fame, I believe, was slated to be in with the release or just after along with the complete magic system. The master/apprentice system is said to only affect 5% of people playing and given that you first need to get up to the level of becoming a master, not sure how long before that will show its effects. I haven't read much at all on player-made quests so I can't comment there. Item degredation is a main feature? I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard someone getting mad that their sword of +50 monkey slashing just...won't..break!

    While it is easier to say here, that there is no end-game (which most of these features, I assume, would be considered as in most level based MMOs) to strive for to make these features useful, I imagine that the LGMs, if they're anything they say they'll be, will use the first few months of the game to introduce the game's lore, point in it's story, and its racial, social, and economical tensions. You usually set the mood for the story before you let the characters loose to "bust skulls and break things."

    I do agree that it sucks the game won't be 100% done and complete and final, but it is an MMO, if you can name one that never advanced, or had things promised added after the initial release, I'll mail you my left kidney. I can understand your frusteration if these were the things you most looked forward to and think the game will be nothing like what was expected for the first months due to their not being implemented. But I assure you, the game will most likely last long enough for you to come in later when all of these -are- in the game. If you think playing now would be 'paying to beta,' I suggest you wait until you feel it is more worth your time and money. Aside from the lack of skills compared to others, I doubt you'd notice they released the game 'early.' You'll also save yourself a lot of frustration that could ruin a game you may be able to hold off on, and later find you enjoy more than you would otherwise.

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,356


    Originally posted by darquenblade
    Razorback and Roin,You guys just pretty much hit the nail on the head in your posts--further extrapolating on what I was venting about in my post.I mean, that whole damn interview just pissed me off. I haven't even been anticipating this game, but I feel sorry for those that have.For EVERY feature the interviewer asked about, the answer was basically that it was 'unfinished' and wouldn't be there at launch.Given that, what the hell have they been doing for the past 4 years?Man, if I had actually been anticipating this game, I'd be REALLY pissed. ::::19::EDIT: 100th post. Rock on.

    I have been following Mourning since maybe not more then a week after their site first came up. I've played just about every MMO under the sun. Including WoW and EQ2. I like to PvE I'm also a big fan of PvP. I loved my time in Shadowbane. The game was buggy as hell, but the politics that went on behind the scenes with every guild. Was so damn fun. While I don't think the PvP in WoW is bad. It's not great either. While I don't think people need a reason to kill each other. I do think there should be some goals about it.

    Mournings was supposed to be my new PvP game for next couple of years. But like has been said a few times in this topic. Mourning is turning out to be your standard PvP Lite game that's just like every other cookie cutter MMO already out on market.

    I've just lost alot of faith in MMO's in general. Frankly i'm sick of paying to beta test products. It's the reason why i'm not subscribed to a MMO right now. I'm sick of seeing a lack of innovation in games. I'm sick of seeing crap products rushed to market to cash in on gamers. The genre is being killed by the fact that profit is considered better then innovation. EQ2 is fine, but I did it all before in EQ1. WoW is fine, but the PvP needs more of a direction. At least before it will get my blood flowing.

    Maybe it's about time I just give up on MMO's. They've just proven to be nothing more then average games at best lately. That require you to shell out cash each and every month. At least when I buy any other genre of game I can turn it in for store credits or something. The only thing a bad MMO's brings you is an extra cup coaster.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015


    Originally posted by Popori
    Well, I imagine the first three on your list will go in at basically the same time and are the first things they'll be working on. Fame, I believe, was slated to be in with the release or just after along with the complete magic system. The master/apprentice system is said to only affect 5% of people playing and given that you first need to get up to the level of becoming a master, not sure how long before that will show its effects. I haven't read much at all on player-made quests so I can't comment there. Item degredation is a main feature? I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard someone getting mad that their sword of +50 monkey slashing just...won't..break!While it is easier to say here, that there is no end-game (which most of these features, I assume, would be considered as in most level based MMOs) to strive for to make these features useful, I imagine that the LGMs, if they're anything they say they'll be, will use the first few months of the game to introduce the game's lore, point in it's story, and its racial, social, and economical tensions. You usually set the mood for the story before you let the characters loose to "bust skulls and break things."I do agree that it sucks the game won't be 100% done and complete and final, but it is an MMO, if you can name one that never advanced, or had things promised added after the initial release, I'll mail you my left kidney. I can understand your frusteration if these were the things you most looked forward to and think the game will be nothing like what was expected for the first months due to their not being implemented. But I assure you, the game will most likely last long enough for you to come in later when all of these -are- in the game. If you think playing now would be 'paying to beta,' I suggest you wait until you feel it is more worth your time and money. Aside from the lack of skills compared to others, I doubt you'd notice they released the game 'early.' You'll also save yourself a lot of frustration that could ruin a game you may be able to hold off on, and later find you enjoy more than you would otherwise.

    Popori,

    I completely agree with you that there has been no MMO out there that has delivered on all of it's promises upon release. Every one always has features that are left out for one reason or another (sometimes just to have an excuse for an expansion ::::23::).

    However, where I believe Mourning is unacceptably different is that the missing features list of the game is nearly twice as long as that of others, and they are many of the things that promised to make the game unique in the first place. While other games have had missing features, the core of what made their games unique would at least still be in place upon release (well, maybe not unique, but their most touted features). I mean, the only really unique feature I can think that's left in Mourning right now is the whole permadeath/bloodline thing--and with the dodgy condition of the game's other features, who knows if THAT will even work as intended.

    Furthermore, I think one thing that you can probably agree with me on is how releasing the game in it's current state can be in no way good for the game from a success point of view. I think that with MMORPGs (more than any other type of game), first impressions are everything. If a game blows right out of the gate, it's going to do nothing but spread bad press about the game, thus decreasing the chances of it really getting up off the ground. If they want this game to last long enough to even get all of these features into the game, they need to have at least a halfway decent launch, no? Just as an example of what I'm referring to, think about all the MMOs that have come out over the years that had bad launches. Now, think about how many of those same games managed to improve themselves over time and become much better games. Quite a few. HOWEVER, there are so many people who won't ever return to these games to see that because they remember how shitty they were at launch.

    I'm not saying Mourning will be unable to add all their features eventually, but by the time they do, will anyone still care?

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334

    I can agree with every point you made, however, I doubt the list of features not implemented is -that- long.  Sure, there may not be much of a point to the PvP at release, but think of this:

    When WoW hit the shelves, and to this day, nearly three months after release, there is totally NO point to the PvP system.  Not to mention half the side-content of Mourning to back it.  Unless you count millions of repetitive raids and thinly veiled parodies of games, movies, and other things as content.

    DAoC, for a while (too long to remember how long) there was no point to PvP/Keep taking aside from...PvP and keep taking.  The relic system was added...AFTER release.  Heck the Realm Point system was too if I remember correctly.  I played this game since beta, trust me, if any game has less to do than level/PvP its this one.  There is -zero- fluff to DAoC, unless you count their painful quests that help you..level.

    Both games are going strong.  The developers say that there will be towns and things to fight over, just none that are conquerable or player-made.  I seriously doubt that any player or Order would even have the resources to simply start the game up, and start cranking out city materials anyway.

    I'm not trying to turn people to the game, or make it seem perfect, simply trying to add a glimpse of positive to all the negative.  Who are any of us to say what condition the game is in?  Ask one of those folks that were barking just a few days ago about the lack of concrete information regarding 90% of the game,  which is apparently not the case with the secret arsenal of negative information and slew of information regarding crappiness and incomplete-itude of the game.

    If the game's lacking in one general area, especially a major area, I'm sure the developers will be on it like animals.  They're a new company, bound to make mistakes.  I personally am willing to invest what faith I can into them delivering a quality game, be it whole or struggling to get there.  I can't count the number of people that claim small companies produce better games than big-rig corporations.  I agree!  Sony let me down with EQ2, they're offering what SHOULD have been in the game at release as some booster pack crap at 5$ a pop after a $80 box(CE).  I got this game for $30!

    Never have I asked people to start liking a game, but why so many death-rants on a game you know as much as the next person about? (Not you directly)  When/If this open beta thing goes through, I may be let down and may not.  I'd gladly step up and tell you all the nitty gritty about my likes/dislikes.  I have preordered the game and plan to keep it regardless of the ups and downs before I play it myself.

    Why do I think they'd release the game in it's current state?  Because it's capable of being played.  Regardless of how important the rest of the features are, they're purely cosmetic.  They can be added while those capable/willing to wait enjoy what the game has to offer at that point.  As stated, you don't have to play before they're in.  The game isn't a day 1 or never thing.

    Call me whatever name you want for defending this game, I just think all the low-talking is preemptive and uncalled for.

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015


    Originally posted by Popori
    I can agree with every point you made, however, I doubt the list of features not implemented is -that- long. Sure, there may not be much of a point to the PvP at release, but think of this:
    When WoW hit the shelves, and to this day, nearly three months after release, there is totally NO point to the PvP system. Not to mention half the side-content of Mourning to back it. Unless you count millions of repetitive raids and thinly veiled parodies of games, movies, and other things as content.
    DAoC, for a while (too long to remember how long) there was no point to PvP/Keep taking aside from...PvP and keep taking. The relic system was added...AFTER release. Heck the Realm Point system was too if I remember correctly. I played this game since beta, trust me, if any game has less to do than level/PvP its this one. There is -zero- fluff to DAoC, unless you count their painful quests that help you..level.
    Both games are going strong. The developers say that there will be towns and things to fight over, just none that are conquerable or player-made. I seriously doubt that any player or Order would even have the resources to simply start the game up, and start cranking out city materials anyway.
    I'm not trying to turn people to the game, or make it seem perfect, simply trying to add a glimpse of positive to all the negative. Who are any of us to say what condition the game is in? Ask one of those folks that were barking just a few days ago about the lack of concrete information regarding 90% of the game, which is apparently not the case with the secret arsenal of negative information and slew of information regarding crappiness and incomplete-itude of the game.
    If the game's lacking in one general area, especially a major area, I'm sure the developers will be on it like animals. They're a new company, bound to make mistakes. I personally am willing to invest what faith I can into them delivering a quality game, be it whole or struggling to get there. I can't count the number of people that claim small companies produce better games than big-rig corporations. I agree! Sony let me down with EQ2, they're offering what SHOULD have been in the game at release as some booster pack crap at 5$ a pop after a $80 box(CE). I got this game for $30!
    Never have I asked people to start liking a game, but why so many death-rants on a game you know as much as the next person about? (Not you directly) When/If this open beta thing goes through, I may be let down and may not. I'd gladly step up and tell you all the nitty gritty about my likes/dislikes. I have preordered the game and plan to keep it regardless of the ups and downs before I play it myself.
    Why do I think they'd release the game in it's current state? Because it's capable of being played. Regardless of how important the rest of the features are, they're purely cosmetic. They can be added while those capable/willing to wait enjoy what the game has to offer at that point. As stated, you don't have to play before they're in. The game isn't a day 1 or never thing.
    Call me whatever name you want for defending this game, I just think all the low-talking is preemptive and uncalled for.

    I don't really believe I'm low-talking here--I just fail to see what the devs believe they can gain by having a weak release. I mean, I'm sure even that in and of itself wouldn't be so bad if the game hadn't gotten so much bad publicity of late (all the official forums nonsense). Due to so many people having a negative opinion about this game already, the developers should have more of a reason than ever for getting the game as polished as possible for release--quite frankly, they need to have a better way to put the game in a positive light. It's been 4 years so far--how would extending the dev time a little longer hurt anything at this point?

    Unless of course they need to start turning a profit on the game, which is understandable. But even then, that will only get them so far if the initial game isn't fun.

    And once again, I will state that you are right about features missing in other games. However, there are a couple of differences. DAoC was probably missing all of the things you mentioned at release--I've never played it and thus have no reason to doubt you. However, that game was released years ago--there are alot more MMO options out there now, and consumers are going to be less forgiving of things like that. I also agree with you on WoW's weak PVP, and that currently the game 'stops' once you hit the level cap. However, they at least made it fun all the way to the top.

    What I am concerned with (regarding Mourning), is what will the MMO player who jumps right aboard Mourning have to entertain himself with in the beginning? At release, what will be the incentive for subscribers to pay, when they can get the same things out of, say, Shadowbane?

    No Popori, I'm not a Mourning hater. I just feel like these guys are sinking their own ship before it even sets sail. Plus, I'm kind of enjoying having a civil conversation with you, as apposed to what passes for that amongst many of the other thickheads on this site ::::19::

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334

    Hopefully they also understand what you're saying.  The scam/vaporware remarks along with the unfinished things being a strong point of the game should set fire under them enough to have them steamroll to get everything together.

    What really bothers me about a lot of people's attitudes toward this game is that it has to be all or nothing.  There doesn't seem to be any middle-ground that is usually required by small, new companies.  The devs seem to have an ear out for everything the community says.  Which is where I really think they'll come through.  They may not be the most organized or proper bunch, but they're willing to give the community a listen.  However, they're not a big corporation that has dozens of successful titles to back them.  Nor manpower to crank out detail after detail from what I hear.  Perhaps they do need to push the game for funding.  Perhaps they plan to use their system of LGMs to make events that will keep people busy while they finish what is promised. Heck, maybe it won't take them longer than a month to get the stuff in the game.  For $29.99 if they deliver half of what they promised I won't feel cheated of a penny.

    You're right about there being more options for gamers to test.  But I'm sure if those games weren't missing something players looked for, like all others, there wouldn't be a need to swap or try something new. (Off topic but Shadowbane, in my opinion, is basically just Diablo set to Full House reruns, lame.)  I've never played Shadowbane for longer than a month at a time, so I can't really speak for it.

    If by the forums stuff you mean all the bannings, you can look at the banned folk's responses to it and see what sand that holds.  The company is actually tossing customers AWAY to keep the community in their version of order!  If half the companies (Blizzard comes to mind) did that we'd end up with at least 90% less general chat about which mammal has the biggest reproductive organ to body mass ratio (Thank the Proudmoore Alliance guys for that one).

    The way I see it, they're holding off on giving me the ability to get my order a city to defend, and in return are giving me a game that has all of its core components in working order, a (hopefully!) stable world to play in, and a community that won't be filled with inconsiderate pricks that have nothing better to do than talk about people's mothers, sisters, or remind me of how horrible my life is compared to theirs.

    The features they're leaving out are only so bad as the stress you put into them.  You could easily enjoy PvP, gather what resources are required, learn the world, decide on a spot for your uber city, polish your knowledge of the game mechanics, save up what equipment and money is required to fund your venture, learn that nifty new bow or sword technique, and by time you get all that done, bam, you got your city.

    (P.S. Somewhere in there I lost my train of thought so I may have just talked myself in circles or said nothing at all, hehe.)

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    I just lament the lost opportunities to set a new standard.

    I dont understand why company after company starts with such excellent ideas and motivation. Then one by one they all fall in line and accept mediocrity.

    I dont play EQ2 and WoW because I think they are the best games ever. I play them because they are the best of an extremely average bunch.

    I hope I am wrong, but sadly Mourning does not look like it will change that situation anytime soon image

    Maybe Brad Mquaid with his Garriot like experience at this, can pull it off with Vanguard.

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    http://purepwnage.com
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    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334

    Razor, I have to agree that not much innovation is finding it's way into the MMO scene. You would figure with their multitude of successful games to give them financial support and an already bloodthirsty fan-base, many larger companies such as Blizzard or SOE would be the companies to set the high standard with their games in terms of innovation and simply wipe the floor with all competition. But, as it turns out, they're usually the first to settle for mediocrity. Why? They have a multitude of successful games to give them financial support and an already blood-thirsty fan-base.

    As it turns out, many small-time developers, or new-kids in terms of MMOs are generally the ones to bring something new to the market. Funcom had a hellacious rough start with AO, some say it still bites. I've played it and find lots of things in it that many games could learn from. DAoC was Mythic's first try at a large scale game. Though they did have several smaller games that were like Infantry by SOE. SOE...I personally have lost all taste for them. But I won't go into that, hehe. They're the leader in Charge Now, Deliver Later. SOE has a vicious habit of 'borrowing' features from other games to make their games more innovative, if they put that much effort into it. But that is sort of how gaming works. There is only so much that can be altered.

    Sure, Mourning pulled a few things before release to make a self-set deadline. WoW did it with Battlegrounds and PvP rewards (as stated earlier), DAoC did it with their RvR reward systems, and EQ2 cut features like Families and some..other stuff. (I didn't really follow EQ2 long). To say that the game will fail simply because the features aren't in at release is only half true. Sure, they won't attract as many customers who have to have all or nothing, but many people find games months after their release anyway. Some people will simply wait it out, and still others will hold on getting the game 'til it's 'complete.'

    I hope Vangard is able to pull of every hope and promise they make. Maybe they will set the new standard in MMOs, if not, I wonder if it will draw half the rants this vaporware of a scam game is.

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015


    Originally posted by Popori
    Razor, I have to agree that not much innovation is finding it's way into the MMO scene. You would figure with their multitude of successful games to give them financial support and an already bloodthirsty fan-base, many larger companies such as Blizzard or SOE would be the companies to set the high standard with their games in terms of innovation and simply wipe the floor with all competition. But, as it turns out, they're usually the first to settle for mediocrity. Why? They have a multitude of successful games to give them financial support and an already blood-thirsty fan-base.As it turns out, many small-time developers, or new-kids in terms of MMOs are generally the ones to bring something new to the market. Funcom had a hellacious rough start with AO, some say it still bites. I've played it and find lots of things in it that many games could learn from. DAoC was Mythic's first try at a large scale game. Though they did have several smaller games that were like Infantry by SOE. SOE...I personally have lost all taste for them. But I won't go into that, hehe. They're the leader in Charge Now, Deliver Later. SOE has a vicious habit of 'borrowing' features from other games to make their games more innovative, if they put that much effort into it. But that is sort of how gaming works. There is only so much that can be altered.Sure, Mourning pulled a few things before release to make a self-set deadline. WoW did it with Battlegrounds and PvP rewards (as stated earlier), DAoC did it with their RvR reward systems, and EQ2 cut features like Families and some..other stuff. (I didn't really follow EQ2 long). To say that the game will fail simply because the features aren't in at release is only half true. Sure, they won't attract as many customers who have to have all or nothing, but many people find games months after their release anyway. Some people will simply wait it out, and still others will hold on getting the game 'til it's 'complete.'I hope Vangard is able to pull of every hope and promise they make. Maybe they will set the new standard in MMOs, if not, I wonder if it will draw half the rants this vaporware of a scam game is.

    I am sure that Mourning will indeed find it's own niche of fans no matter what--of that I'm certian. But, in my opinion, games such as Mourning have a LOT more to lose by having less than stellar releases than do games made by, say, SOE. Just due to name recognition alone, SOE games will always have a strong player base regardless of the game's quality on release (*cough* SWG *cough*). But with a small dev house, they are under pressure to try a little harder, as they will have small numbers to begin with.

    On a side note, I tend to not get excited by ANY game until I learn about concrete features that interest me THAT I KNOW WILL DEFINITELY BE IN THE GAME. One of the things that annoyed me before this interview (this is not directed at you Popori, just a rant) was the many members of the Mourning community that would vehemently defend the game, when in reality they had no idea what features would be in the game and what wouldn't.

    There are many anticipated games in the works right now whose hype rely on on features that have only been promised or suggested by the devs. Such games would be:

    1. Vanguard
    2. Tablula Rasa
    3. Middle Earth Online
    ...to name a few

    Now, think the concepts presented in all three of these games sound good, but I'm not getting my hopes up. What I just don't get are the legions that end up surrounding these games, swearing that the game would be the next best thing since sliced bread. How do they know this? They don't. I think that getting hyped over games that offer little other than speculation is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Ahh..I ranted again lol ::::18::

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334

    I agree with you on the rabid fan part.  But, for every rabid fan there is his darker half.  The pre-release doomsayer.  Not the ones that offer legitimate arguments about games, the ones that declare the downfall of the game as if they were sent from the future ala Terminator to make us all aware of its unfortunate downfall.

    I can't help but put a little faith, be it blind or not, into the small guys that are trying to make their way through the shadows of the tyrannical companies.  It just irks me to no end to see people come to a forum to yell at people defending made up facts using made up facts.  Or people that, for some reason, think that the moderators of forums have a hand in the game's devlopment..they're volunteers.  I can understand if they mention the community having an impact on the game, but they usually don't aim at that.

    Sometimes, hype is all you have to go on.  And one day, hype will be all that is left to differ between game A and game B.  I can understand your views though.  It's the ones that have to come here and make sure everyone knows the game 'blows' that I have to mentally slap around.  Much as you would do with those that would come to let you know that their Savior bestowed his blessing on this game and all associated with it.

    Counter-Ranted to keep the spirit of the Forum alive.

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015


    Originally posted by Popori
    I agree with you on the rabid fan part. But, for every rabid fan there is his darker half. The pre-release doomsayer. Not the ones that offer legitimate arguments about games, the ones that declare the downfall of the game as if they were sent from the future ala Terminator to make us all aware of its unfortunate downfall.
    I can't help but put a little faith, be it blind or not, into the small guys that are trying to make their way through the shadows of the tyrannical companies. It just irks me to no end to see people come to a forum to yell at people defending made up facts using made up facts. Or people that, for some reason, think that the moderators of forums have a hand in the game's devlopment..they're volunteers. I can understand if they mention the community having an impact on the game, but they usually don't aim at that.
    Sometimes, hype is all you have to go on. And one day, hype will be all that is left to differ between game A and game B. I can understand your views though. It's the ones that have to come here and make sure everyone knows the game 'blows' that I have to mentally slap around. Much as you would do with those that would come to let you know that their Savior bestowed his blessing on this game and all associated with it.
    Counter-Ranted to keep the spirit of the Forum alive.

    You know what, Popori? I originally wasn't going to, but I think I'll go ahead and try out Mourning upon release, and give it a fair shake--if for no other reason than you put up some intelligent discussion on the subject ::::24::

  • PoporiPopori Member UncommonPosts: 334
    Lol, well I try.  Maybe we'll run into eachother and you can club me if you're disappointed.  If not, it'll be good to have someone to play with/against!
  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,356


    Originally posted by Popori
    Lol, well I try. Maybe we'll run into eachother and you can club me if you're disappointed. If not, it'll be good to have someone to play with/against!

    lol

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253

    Yeah I hear all of that... I played AO from Beta 4 and DAoC from release. I was blown away by AO even when you could only play for 10 mins between 1 hour server crashes. (most of the first 2 weeks). It was so revolutionary in so many ways that it was almost easy to overlook the horrendous bugs just to gasp in wonder at the landscapes and content. But instead of building on an amazing (if rocky) start they just did their best to make it as much of an EQ like grind as possible.

    In fact I was so let down by AO that I still carry the scars to this day in the form of my little avatar that I made lol. The day patch 12.5 came out and the devs hit the forums and basically told the community to get the hell out of their game and let tem run it the way they wanted. Guess what, most people did.

    DAoC was also a very cutting edge game in its day. The early days of RvR in DAoC are still easily the most fun I have had playing an MMO. Some of the battles with 20-30 players or more on each side of an area fighting over a tower or keep and some of the seiging was just pricelessly entertaining. I was only turned off by the level grind after 40 and my guild splitting up making it hard to find a team to keep leveling. If I wasnt playing anything right now and felt like I wanted to go back to any MMO then it would be DAoC.

    Maybe my expectations are just too high. But I wouldnt expect them to be as high as those of the develpers of new games. Yet I still find myself coming on here and looking like a troll because I want to state that these companies should be aiming higher.

    Personally I dont see the point of even releasing another EQ1 clone. There are more than enough of them right now. The only game even remotely making an effort to break the mold that I can see would be Auto Assault and I admit I dont know enough about it to even know if thats true.

    If Mourning lives up to the hype of people like Egomancer then I wont be around to read the "hahaha Razor you suck" posts because I will be too busy playing it.

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    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
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    "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon

  • darquenbladedarquenblade Member Posts: 1,015

    Hey Popori and Raz,

    At the risk of going totally off topic (well, no risk about it, it IS off topic), is DAoC a game still worth trying out this late in the game's life? Is it totally different than it was in it's 'glory days'?

    I've never played it and have always been curious--and it seems that the both of you have spent some quality time with it =)

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