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Anet taking your money before cash shop is done.

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  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Bhorzo

    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    (quote)

     

    What about Guild Wars 1?

    They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

    And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

     

    As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

  • ButtskiButtski Member UncommonPosts: 187

    hilarious to see how retarded this community is that it fall to every troll.

     

    gj op :D

  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,512

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Bhorzo


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb



    (quote)

     

    What about Guild Wars 1?

    They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

    And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

     

    As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

    And GW1 also didn't allow in-game currency to be shifted to item mall currency which allows for a win-win for both parties who partake in the trade. Keep in mind that you can buy many of the boosts, lockboxes and keys in the shop, from in-game vendors and merchants as well and the only thing a person playing the game could really want from the item mall is a costume or more character slots.

    This is not a game.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by PieRad

     Anet taking your money before cash shop is done.

    should we say the same about Blizzard?

    Blizzard is taking peoples money before the *final* details of how the Diablo3 AH is done?

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4062879314

     

    GW2 is still in beta - people that want to prepurchase are aware of this

     

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Zeroxin

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Bhorzo


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb



    (quote)

     

    What about Guild Wars 1?

    They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

    And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

     

    As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

    And GW1 also didn't allow in-game currency to be shifted to item mall currency which allows for a win-win for both parties who partake in the trade. Keep in mind that you can buy many of the boosts, lockboxes and keys in the shop, from in-game vendors and merchants as well and the only thing a person playing the game could really want from the item mall is a costume or more character slots.

    While it may be win-win for those who partake in the trade, it is a relative loss for the non-item maller that intended to compete with the item maller in terms of wealth, vanity or crafting. The item maller, if he is interested in those competitions, paid to get significant advantage in those competitions.

    The current system is great for anyone who doesn't care about any competitions or only cares about the PvP one.  We are though not sure yet how long grind guilds will need to do to catch up buff-wise with the item mallers in World vs World.

  • DraftbeerDraftbeer Member UncommonPosts: 517

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by Kreedz


    Originally posted by pierth


    Originally posted by aesperus

    This whinning is getting to the point, where I don't think Anet can do any right to some of these people. The saddest thing is some of these posters are grilling Anet for almost nothing, yet their post history shows them posting support in one of the threads for a game made by a company with an actual history of screwing over their players. Kinda funny, in a very sad sorta way.

    Agreed, particularly those that insist that all forms of cash Shop are P2W

    Oh, you mean like NCSoft, oh... wait...

     

    ^ Doesnt understand the difference between Developer and Publisher.

    NcSoft is more then just the publisher, they own ANet and thus can force them to do whatever they want.

    I don't remember that NCsoft forced anything on Anet in the case of GW 1... history tells a different story so far.

  • LucioonLucioon Member UncommonPosts: 818

    Originally posted by PieRad

    If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

     

    After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

     

    There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

     

    This way they get money from both sides.

     

     

     

     

     

    I understand your concerns, and I appreciate that you worry so much about what I spend with my money.

    You were never forced to Pre-Purchase, you can always watch videos once the first Beta Weekend happens, the Pre-Purchase will always be there, its not a limited time event.

    The NDA will be lifted once the Beta Weekend starts, therefore you will get insider reviews on whether or not you should be buying the game, and still you are not forced.

    They were giving away free Beta keys during PAX, and many websites and Blogger sites will be offering them for free, all you have to do is subscribe to them and listen to how to win.

    Don't want to Pre-purchase?? then don't do it, those that did, did it because we wanted to. If you are so afraid of Cash Shops, Don't play WOW or LOL or Diablo 3, or any other game. Because they have Cash Shops in them. Its your Prerogative. In reality, GW2 is so different than other MMO out there, that there is no gear to buy or extra powers that actually makes any differences.

    BTW, if you don't know, PVP is structured so you are always on even footing, how do you Pay to win in structured PVP.

    Besides, W v W will always be off balanced due to population anyways, so how can that be Pay to win, and there is no Open World PVP therefore everyone is helping one another during PVE therefore how can there be Pay To Win, what do you actually Pay to win against.

    I just don't understand the argument.

    Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Member Posts: 1,152

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Zeroxin


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Bhorzo


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb



    (quote)

     

    What about Guild Wars 1?

    They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

    And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

     

    As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

    And GW1 also didn't allow in-game currency to be shifted to item mall currency which allows for a win-win for both parties who partake in the trade. Keep in mind that you can buy many of the boosts, lockboxes and keys in the shop, from in-game vendors and merchants as well and the only thing a person playing the game could really want from the item mall is a costume or more character slots.

    While it may be win-win for those who partake in the trade, it is a relative loss for the non-item maller that intended to compete with the item maller in terms of wealth, vanity or crafting. The item maller, if he is interested in those competitions, paid to get significant advantage in those competitions.

    The current system is great for anyone who doesn't care about any competitions or only cares about the PvP one.  We are though not sure yet how long grind guilds will need to do to catch up buff-wise with the item mallers in World vs World.

     

    You dont want GW2 then.

    All games are not alike, nor should they be. If you are looking for those type of competitions, there are lots of games out there for that.

    Anet has never talked about GW2 that way. It was designed around the idea of esports. In other words teh game is mostly about PvP.

    What your doing, is like buying an apple, then complaining it doesnt taste like an orange.

    image
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Zeroxin


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Bhorzo


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb



    (quote)

     

    What about Guild Wars 1?

    They had a cash shop for many years - and still do. And it never turned into "pay to win". So clearly it CAN be done... don't you think?

    And the great news is, the same company that ran the cash shop in GW1 is doing GW2!

     

    As far as I know, Guild Wars 1 never allowed item mall currency to be traded for ingame currency which could be used in the auction.  By allowing that in Guild Wars 2, competitions regarding wealth, vanity and crafting become Pay-to-Win depending on the form of those competitions. Keep in mind that PvP is not necessarily the only competition people care about.

    And GW1 also didn't allow in-game currency to be shifted to item mall currency which allows for a win-win for both parties who partake in the trade. Keep in mind that you can buy many of the boosts, lockboxes and keys in the shop, from in-game vendors and merchants as well and the only thing a person playing the game could really want from the item mall is a costume or more character slots.

    While it may be win-win for those who partake in the trade, it is a relative loss for the non-item maller that intended to compete with the item maller in terms of wealth, vanity or crafting. The item maller, if he is interested in those competitions, paid to get significant advantage in those competitions.

    The current system is great for anyone who doesn't care about any competitions or only cares about the PvP one.  We are though not sure yet how long grind guilds will need to do to catch up buff-wise with the item mallers in World vs World.

     

    You dont want GW2 then.

    All games are not alike, nor should they be. If you are looking for those type of competitions, there are lots of games out there for that.

    Anet has never talked about GW2 that way. It was designed around the idea of esports. In other words teh game is mostly about PvP.

    What your doing, is like buying an apple, then complaining it doesnt taste like an orange.

     

    When have I stated anything about my personal preferences that would let you draw the conclusion that I wouldn't want GW2?

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    You dont want GW2 then.

    All games are not alike, nor should they be. If you are looking for those type of competitions, there are lots of games out there for that.

    Anet has never talked about GW2 that way. It was designed around the idea of esports. In other words teh game is mostly about PvP.

    What your doing, is like buying an apple, then complaining it doesnt taste like an orange.

    I agree GW2 will have esports but it will offer plenty of PVE in the realms of wealth, vanity, and crafting too

    GW2 is *not* primarily a pvp game despite what you think

     

  • Spaceweed10Spaceweed10 Member Posts: 625

    Originally posted by PieRad

    If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

     

    After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

     

    There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

     

    This way they get money from both sides.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    You make a good point.  My money is staying in my pocket until I see more information.  Some typical MMO underhandedness going on here at the moment, in my opinion.

  • HomituHomitu Member UncommonPosts: 2,030

    Originally posted by GoldenArrow

    Originally posted by Yamota

    This whole cash shop thing is nonsense. Preferred they have gone with subscription fees rather than a cash shop.

    +1

    They would get less profits though ;>

    But it would cost me so much more :(

  • Spaceweed10Spaceweed10 Member Posts: 625

    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    You dont want GW2 then.

    All games are not alike, nor should they be. If you are looking for those type of competitions, there are lots of games out there for that.

    Anet has never talked about GW2 that way. It was designed around the idea of esports. In other words teh game is mostly about PvP.

    What your doing, is like buying an apple, then complaining it doesnt taste like an orange.

    I agree GW2 will have esports but it will offer plenty of PVE in the realms of wealth, vanity, and crafting too

    GW2 is *not* primarily a pvp game despite what you think

     

     

    In other words, GW2 has PvP tacked on and will the usual lagfest on an average PC?  Ok, roger.

  • gothagotha Member UncommonPosts: 1,066

    I am likely going to be playing this MMO anyhow.  If the cash shop is a hinderence to the game i will stop after a month and not buy any expansions.  If its not i will continue playing and buying future content.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,593

    Might surprise you to know... they don't have MY money.

    If someone wants to buy in on total faith, that's their unwise decision to make.  For me, I won't touch an MMO til' I can play it first(always my rule), and since I'm not in beta, I'm not even close to the decision making process yet.

    "Let the fools have their tartar sauce..."  image

    What Anet is doing is not unprecedented.  Matter of fact, you could argue that companies are taking people's money at launch before they know what's in... patch 1.2.  People bought LotRO at launch before knowing what would be in the Turbine store 4 years later.

    If people are concerned about the cash shop being P2W, then they aren't gonna buy til' they know what's in it.  They don't need you to advise them.

     

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Spaceweed10

    Originally posted by Nadia


    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    You dont want GW2 then.

    All games are not alike, nor should they be. If you are looking for those type of competitions, there are lots of games out there for that.

    Anet has never talked about GW2 that way. It was designed around the idea of esports. In other words teh game is mostly about PvP.

    What your doing, is like buying an apple, then complaining it doesnt taste like an orange.

    I agree GW2 will have esports but it will offer plenty of PVE in the realms of wealth, vanity, and crafting too

    GW2 is *not* primarily a pvp game despite what you think

     

     

    In other words, GW2 has PvP tacked on and will the usual lagfest on an average PC?  Ok, roger.

    Now you are just trolling or being sarcastic. PvP has been a major focus although not the only focus of GW2; it is not an afterthought. As for the lag: that's a good major concern for which we won't know the answer until we have results from large-scale public betas.

  • OnigodOnigod Member UncommonPosts: 756

    Originally posted by PieRad

    If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

     

    After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

     

    There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

     

    This way they get money from both sides.

     

     

     

     

     

    Yea they have no interest in anyone not using the cash shop after buying the box?  only who are they going to sell the games expansions to they will shit out when the game is fully released?

     

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Member UncommonPosts: 629

    Originally posted by Spaceweed10

    Snip..

    In other words, GW2 has PvP tacked on and will the usual lagfest on an average PC?  Ok, roger.

    You don't have to go out of your way to show us you have no clue about what you are talking about...

  • MikkelBMikkelB Member Posts: 240

    Originally posted by Buttski

    hilarious to see how retarded this community is that it fall to every troll.

     

    gj op :D

    I'm not sure as why everything that is brought up that might be slightly negative, should be clarified as "trolling". The cashshop and the pre-purchase of Guild Wars 2 are subjects that some posters seem to have problems with. This forum should be a place to discuss them. At least that's what I believe.

    Then again, by your divine standards everyone here is retarded. But please, even if the OP made an attempt to trolling, you can at least try to contribute to this thread in some sensible way. Sometimes troll attempts start some interesting discussions. More fun that way, as I like to picture the face of the would-be-troll in my mind, shedding his troll-tears.

    Back on topic, something I forgot to mention earlier, I'm curious to see what the trading of these gems will do with the economy. In EVE-Online it turned out in an interesting way, but there you bought gametime, which isn't the case in Guild Wars 2. Difficult to predict the impact it will have here.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Might surprise you to know... they don't have MY money.

    If someone wants to buy in on total faith, that's their unwise decision to make.  For me, I won't touch an MMO til' I can play it first(always my rule), and since I'm not in beta, I'm not even close to the decision making process yet.

    "Let the fools have their tartar sauce..."  image

    What Anet is doing is not unprecedented.  Matter of fact, you could argue that companies are taking people's money at launch before they know what's in... patch 1.2.  People bought LotRO at launch before knowing what would be in the Turbine store 4 years later.

    If people are concerned about the cash shop being P2W, then they aren't gonna buy til' they know what's in it.  They don't need you to advise them.

     

    It is not unprecedented in that even Blizzard did it with WoW.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858

    Originally posted by PieRad

    If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

     

    After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

     

    There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

     

    This way they get money from both sides.

     

     

     

     

     

    Don't play then.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

    The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

    Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

  • MikkelBMikkelB Member Posts: 240

    Originally posted by Amjoco

    Originally posted by PieRad

    If you are agaisnt P2W, then you were never their target anyway, they got your money already before the shop is done, before NDA is lifted, even before a release date, since there will be no revenue from sub, you won't be paying anymore.

     

    After the box you have no value to them, only the cash shoppers will be of interest to Anet, and those who love cash shop won't complain when they add a even more obvious P2W scheme, right now their hiding it behind gems, that doesn't make it any less P2W.

     

    There is a very good reason why they haven't finished the shop yet, they want your money before you know what's gonna be in the shop, because those who dislike 'advantage for money', wouldn't have bothered buying the box if they knew what was gonna be in it.

     

    This way they get money from both sides.

     

     

     

     

     

    Don't play then.

    Who should not play then? The OP? Although he raves against P2W, perhaps he is one who plays games where he can P2W and is tired of people moaning against that system.

    You just can't always use the sentence "Don't play then" to debunke every negative argument.

    You don't agree? Don't post then image

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Member Posts: 1,152

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

    The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

    Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

     

    What reality are you referring? It must be your own special one, because we dont even know whats all in the CS. There is no reason at all to think they will suddenly put P2W items in there.

    Yet you say this is a reality, and expect other people to stop what they are doing.

    Thats some amazing logic you have there.  image

    image
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,593

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    I find it amusing that concerns over the uncertainty of the cash shop and the possible inclusion of P2W are met with such vitriol.

    The worry over the cash shop is legitimate, yet it seems that blind faith and a wasteful consumeristic stance -- "it's my money I'll do what I want with it" -- trumps reality.

    Personally I'm cautiously looking forward to this game. The cash shop is the one thing that can drag this game down... so I'm taking the sane approach and not throwing my money at ANet until I'm satisfied with the final condition of the game.

    Concern is understandable.  Caution is understandable and advised.  But to paint a Snidely Whiplash moustache on Anet for starting preorders before cash shop content is disclosed is... just silly.  Anybody who cares about what's in the shop will wait.

This discussion has been closed.