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"It's a Trap"

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  • EduardoASGEduardoASG Member Posts: 832

    I have to agree with the op.

    Some valid points there. Paying ful price for something still under NDA without beta testing going nada nada nada? Are people that ... haam haaam ?

    People watching red signs all over.. still opt to ignore them.. do they want to believe so much that red is green or is it a sign of times? amazing stuff.

     

    Aion, AoC, AC, AO, DDO, Eve, Eq2, GW, MW3, L1&2, RF, RIFT, SWG, SWTOR, TR, UO, WOW, WAR
  • ariboersmaariboersma Member Posts: 1,802

    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by Sephastus

    2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted

    My word, who would do such a thing? Please... just think for a moment.

    Blizzard fans did that -- for Starcraft2 and past games

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/starcraft-ii-beta-access-included-with-preorder-6259222

    paying for beta is nothing new

     

    I paid for beta for World of Warcraft back in 2004

    so true yet the last time this came up ppl screamed and yelled at me for saying this >.< I also paid for my original WoW beta.. also dont forget the thousands of beta keys for all sorts of games that sell on Ebay...

    image

  • MuntzMuntz Member UncommonPosts: 332

    Originally posted by pathiean

    Personally I think the real trap has yet to be seen, and that is going to be the cash shop 6 months after release. With the way the industry works now, and you all know exactly what I mean or have been living under a rock for the past 8 years. Nearly 99% of cash shops make games completely P2Win. Anybody who thinks this is not going to happen here is either a fool or in total denial  about it. Greed rules the business world and lets face it, GW2 is big business.

    Companies are in it for profits that is true. Do you have a job? If so and you are only in it for the money I pity you. People should have passion for what they do, game developers are no different. So, greed as you call it can't be the only driving factor or the game will not be successful. I guarantee you that these folks want people to play their games and not just for the money. They actually want people to have fun and enjoy their game. If it is P2Win very few will. In order to be a long standing company you can't just strip mine your customers and leave a barren field. Given all that, what you say certainly could happen here but it doesn't have to and it doesn't make anyone a fool or in denial to say otherwise. So lets face it we don't really know what is going to happen with this games cash shop. My vision of the future is based of experience with GW1 and I don't see ANET wanting to allowing the CS to be the demise of their game. 

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by EduardoASG

    I have to agree with the op.

    Some valid points there. Paying ful price for something still under NDA without beta testing going nada nada nada? Are people that ... haam haaam ?

    People watching red signs all over.. still opt to ignore them.. do they want to believe so much that red is green or is it a sign of times? amazing stuff.

     

    NDA or not, there is so much information available about GW2 that you would have to be absolutely oblivious to not have seen it. Not only is there no NDA for the press but there are so many leaks from the last batch of beta testers that there really is no excuse.

    And what "red signs" pray tell?

    image

  • lathaanlathaan Member UncommonPosts: 476

    I have no clue what the OP wants, but even talking about 40-70€ is boring - thats an amount of money you earn in most european countries for one hours work in a decent job .. i mean, come on, id even throw money at gw2 if i had not played the be.. oh wait, good try.  :)

    what i really dislike is threads popping up every second about how WE shouldnt WASTE our money. This NITPICKERY is embarrassing. our hobby is cheap enough. super inexpensive it is.

    And no, i dont care about you having to pay for betas because WE pay for them without thinking twice, at all ;)

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767

    Originally posted by Nasa

    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

  • sassoonsssassoonss Member UncommonPosts: 1,128

    Its not a trap

     

    I have played GW1 and all the expansions and I have enjoyed it throrougly.

     

    I am very much happy I bought the DDE edition

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by Nasa


    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

    YES! Thank you for bringing the CS back onto the forums. These "hype" and "don't pre-purchase" threads are getting old.

    If you pre-purchased, you can actually view the CS right now. It's not a final CS but at least you can check what's currently in it.

    image

  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Member UncommonPosts: 1,350

    If GW2 is a trap, I want to be caught.

    All die, so die well.

  • AlotAlot Member Posts: 1,948

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by Nasa


    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

    YES! Thank you for bringing the CS back onto the forums. These "hype" and "don't pre-purchase" threads are getting old.

    If you pre-purchased, you can actually view the CS right now. It's not a final CS but at least you can check what's currently in it.

    Really, where can you see it?

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,192

    Ever bought a book without knowing the whole story? Ever bought a board game without knowing exactly how to play it? Ever bought a film without knowing everything it contains, who the actors are and how long it is? Ever paid into a nightclub without knowing how busy it is inside and what the price of the drinks are?

    Games are no different.

    Thousands of people knew they would be buying GW2 the day it was announced, no matter how it turned out.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • MuntzMuntz Member UncommonPosts: 332

    Originally posted by Vannor

    Ever bought a book without knowing the whole story? Ever bought a board game without knowing exactly how to play it? Ever bought a film without knowing everything it contains, who the actors are and how long it is? Ever paid into a nightclub without knowing how busy it is inside and what the price of the drinks are?

    Games are no different.

    Thousands of people knew they would be buying GW2 the day it was announced, no matter how it turned out.

    Agreed, all of those things would lack entertainment value if you knew everything about them prior to purchase. 

  • UOvetUOvet Member Posts: 514

    Did the OP just wake up to gaming? Been like this for a while. You don't have to preorder you know. Not sure if aware. 3 day headstart is enough for most people I'm sure.

     

    It's not like there isn't any information on Guild Wars 2 out there. Try finding some on the Secret World.

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by Nasa


    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

    If I felt that it might be a deal breaker for me, I would wait.  But it's not.  I'm one of the lucky few who don't care how others play the game, only how I play it.  It could be completely P2W and I wouldn't care because it doesn't affect me.  Why?  Because I don't let it.  My definition of "winning" is based only on whether or not I'm enjoying myself.  How fast someone else is levelling is NOT a factor.

    So, I've already been able to establish (from nearly two years of "researching") that this game has nearly everything I've ever wanted in an MMO and almost none of the stuff I've come to despise.  Why would I wait when I can get my feet wet (FINALLY!!!) in just a couple more weeks?

    Besides, you cautious types should be thanking us early adopters, not trying to dissuade us.  We're the ones that will be bringing you more information about the game over the next couple of months or so.  Remember, WE aren't gagged by the NDA.  We can talk all we want about what we've experienced.  Of course, most of the positive stuff will be summarily dismissed by many of you, but that's your problem.  Others will get to learn a bit more, which may influence their perception of the game, positively or negatively.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by Alot

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by Nasa


    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

    YES! Thank you for bringing the CS back onto the forums. These "hype" and "don't pre-purchase" threads are getting old.

    If you pre-purchased, you can actually view the CS right now. It's not a final CS but at least you can check what's currently in it.

    Really, where can you see it?

    https://gemstore.ncplatform.net/

    If you have registered a GW2 account, you can log in and check this stuff out.

    image

  • MyriaMyria Member UncommonPosts: 698

    Originally posted by heartless

    NDA or not, there is so much information available about GW2 that you would have to be absolutely oblivious to not have seen it.

    I really don't get this argument. How is this any different from WAR, AOC, Rift, ToR, or any other game that has come out in the last god knows how long?

    I played god knows how many hours of Rift in the betas. Not watched controlled demos or any of the rest of that crap, played it myself before buying it. Seemed great, thought it would be my new MMO home for a few years to come. Wasn't until endgame that it all fell apart.

    A bunch of movies tells you jack squat. Beta barely tells you anything. Until release and until people have played it for a good long while all that "information" means nothing. This whole "I've watched videos, I know everything I need to know" argument is so ridiculous it's painful.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767

    Originally posted by Vannor

    Ever bought a book without knowing the whole story? Ever bought a board game without knowing exactly how to play it? Ever bought a film without knowing everything it contains, who the actors are and how long it is? Ever paid into a nightclub without knowing how busy it is inside and what the price of the drinks are?

    Games are no different.

    Thousands of people knew they would be buying GW2 the day it was announced, no matter how it turned out.

    Yes and some of those were pretty good and some were horrid. But I never bought a book that wasn't finished by the author.

    I assume you mean that it wasn't worth learning, and yes, those too. I regretted the waste of money While others I got my money's worth and then some. Never prepurchased a game though.

    Not really

    I've walked rightout of some of those too.

    Games are very different. Each of your examples was based on buying something and paying at the time of service, delivery or entrance.

    Industry wide, consumers are sending a very clear message to the developers.  They can take your money and then they can take their time and be less concerend about releasing a polished product because they already got paid and don't have to worry if you will buy their unfinised crap.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,961

    Originally posted by Myria

    Originally posted by heartless



    NDA or not, there is so much information available about GW2 that you would have to be absolutely oblivious to not have seen it.

    I really don't get this argument. How is this any different from WAR, AOC, Rift, ToR, or any other game that has come out in the last god knows how long?

    I played god knows how many hours of Rift in the betas. Not watched controlled demos or any of the rest of that crap, played it myself before buying it. Seemed great, thought it would be my new MMO home for a few years to come. Wasn't until endgame that it all fell apart.

    A bunch of movies tells you jack squat. Beta barely tells you anything. Until release and until people have played it for a good long while all that "information" means nothing. This whole "I've watched videos, I know everything I need to know" argument is so ridiculous it's painful.

    When the game has a focus on endgame as WAR/AOC/RIFT/ToR all have been, you are 100% right.

    Anet has told us multiple times in multiple ways that there is NO end-game. The game you play on day 1 at level 1 will be pretty much the same game that you'll play at max level.

    PvP is all available on day 1, there is no "end-game" pvp versus "level up" PvP.

    It's a different structure.

    That is why you can look at videos and read articles of early game play and know exactly what GW2 is offering - because it isn't offering some other new/different game at the end.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by Alot


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by Nasa


    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

    YES! Thank you for bringing the CS back onto the forums. These "hype" and "don't pre-purchase" threads are getting old.

    If you pre-purchased, you can actually view the CS right now. It's not a final CS but at least you can check what's currently in it.

    Really, where can you see it?

    https://gemstore.ncplatform.net/

    If you have registered a GW2 account, you can log in and check this stuff out.

    This IS my point. With everything I've seen on YT, I still want to know how this WILL play out, Not how it is now.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by Myria

    Originally posted by heartless



    NDA or not, there is so much information available about GW2 that you would have to be absolutely oblivious to not have seen it.

    I really don't get this argument. How is this any different from WAR, AOC, Rift, ToR, or any other game that has come out in the last god knows how long?

    I played god knows how many hours of Rift in the betas. Not watched controlled demos or any of the rest of that crap, played it myself before buying it. Seemed great, thought it would be my new MMO home for a few years to come. Wasn't until endgame that it all fell apart.

    A bunch of movies tells you jack squat. Beta barely tells you anything. Until release and until people have played it for a good long while all that "information" means nothing. This whole "I've watched videos, I know everything I need to know" argument is so ridiculous it's painful.

    So if watching videos is not enough and playing the game is obviously not enough, since by your own admission you played Rift, liked it enough to purchase it but it turned out to suck... Then how does one make an informed decision? Magic?

    BTW, these are not controlled demos I'm talking about. There are hundreds of videos of people just playing the game without any developer interference.

    image

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,192

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by Vannor

    Ever bought a book without knowing the whole story? Ever bought a board game without knowing exactly how to play it? Ever bought a film without knowing everything it contains, who the actors are and how long it is? Ever paid into a nightclub without knowing how busy it is inside and what the price of the drinks are?

    Games are no different.

    Thousands of people knew they would be buying GW2 the day it was announced, no matter how it turned out.

    Yes and some of those were pretty good and some were horrid. But I never bought a book that wasn't finished by the author.

    I assume you mean that it wasn't worth learning, and yes, those too. I regretted the waste of money While others I got my money's worth and then some. Never prepurchased a game though.

    Not really

    I've walked rightout of some of those too.

    Games are very different. Each of your examples was based on buying something and paying at the time of service, delivery or entrance.

    Industry wide, consumers are sending a very clear message to the developers.  They can take your money and then they can take their time and be less concerend about releasing a polished product because they already got paid and don't have to worry if you will buy their unfinised crap.

    My point was that we don't learn everything about everything we spend money on before we spend money on it...

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767

    Originally posted by Vannor

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by Vannor

    Ever bought a book without knowing the whole story? Ever bought a board game without knowing exactly how to play it? Ever bought a film without knowing everything it contains, who the actors are and how long it is? Ever paid into a nightclub without knowing how busy it is inside and what the price of the drinks are?

    Games are no different.

    Thousands of people knew they would be buying GW2 the day it was announced, no matter how it turned out.

    Yes and some of those were pretty good and some were horrid. But I never bought a book that wasn't finished by the author.

    I assume you mean that it wasn't worth learning, and yes, those too. I regretted the waste of money While others I got my money's worth and then some. Never prepurchased a game though.

    Not really

    I've walked rightout of some of those too.

    Games are very different. Each of your examples was based on buying something and paying at the time of service, delivery or entrance.

    Industry wide, consumers are sending a very clear message to the developers.  They can take your money and then they can take their time and be less concerend about releasing a polished product because they already got paid and don't have to worry if you will buy their unfinised crap.

    My point was that we don't learn everything about everything we spend money on before we spend money on it...

    OK, That's fair enough. But for me, the contents of that shop are not something I will make an exception for. I am all for this game, but until i see with my own eyes, how everything about that shop works and effects the game, I'm not in yet. I'm not an Anti CS nut. but in my experiecne, they can make or break a game and if it's not done correctly, it can be a deal breaker. This is just something I have decided to do and that is to wait and see. No arguements, not "It's gonna be P2W" nothing like that. I just want to wait and see.

     

    Edit: And for the record, I really do want you guys to be able to come back to me down the road and say "See our faith was not misplaced"

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by Alot


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by GeezerGamer


    Originally posted by Nasa


    Originally posted by Sephastus



    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

    No, some of you haven't been burned because you have been lucky. 

    Research? Under NDA?

    Have you researched the final contents of the cash shop?

    NOTE: Please don't get the idea that this is now a CS thread derail, I don't want to carry on with that. It's just an example of where research is limited.

    YES! Thank you for bringing the CS back onto the forums. These "hype" and "don't pre-purchase" threads are getting old.

    If you pre-purchased, you can actually view the CS right now. It's not a final CS but at least you can check what's currently in it.

    Really, where can you see it?

    https://gemstore.ncplatform.net/

    If you have registered a GW2 account, you can log in and check this stuff out.

    This IS my point. With everything I've seen on YT, I still want to know how this WILL play out, Not how it is now.

    The fact is that you will never truly know. The contents of the cash shop are not final now nor will they be at launch. The very nature of the beast means that ANet will add and remove stuff and change prices all the time, even after the game launches.

    It could be the most benign cash shop at launch and then 5 months from now turn into a greedy, cash grubbing, P2W abomination that some forum posters already believe it to be.

    Basically, it all comes down to trust. The cash shop is there and will continue to change and evolve. You have to decide if you trust ANet to not introduce any P2W features now or post launch.

    image

  • DjildjameshDjildjamesh Member UncommonPosts: 406

    guess that means im trapped and wasted my money yes :) we'll i'll let the people know how the beta weekends will be if your interested :)

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,192

    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Originally posted by Vannor


    /snip

    My point was that we don't learn everything about everything we spend money on before we spend money on it...

    OK, That's fair enough. But for me, the contents of that shop are not something I will make an exception for. I am all for this game, but until i see with my own eyes, how everything about that shop works and effects the game, I'm not in yet. I'm not an Anti CS nut. but in my experiecne, they can make or break a game and if it's not done correctly, it can be a deal breaker. This is just something I have decided to do and that is to wait and see. No arguements, not "It's gonna be P2W" nothing like that. I just want to wait and see.

    I understand that, you want to avoid a P2W game.. if that's what it becomes.

    Problem is that all MMOs are constant works in progress even after release. Just about everything is subject to change.

    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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