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"It's a Trap"

SephastusSephastus Member UncommonPosts: 455

I am utterly dumbfounded at what the hype has done to what would otherwise be a smart community. I will try to put things into a little perspective, and you can flame all you want afterwards, but please hear me out:

1) Pay to Beta test

In all honesty, how many times have most of us complained that once a game is released, it feels like you are paying to beta test it for them because of some irks or outright bugs we find in it... But in GW2 you are ACTUALLY paying in order to beta test it. It's not a PRIVILAGE, it's a service. And I don't know about you, but when I provide a service, I want to be paid, or otherwise compensated for it. But in this case, you are paying THEM in order to test their game out. Just pure ridiculousness...

2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted

My word, who would do such a thing? Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product. The websites that got access to the BETA want traffic, and are also going to attempt to showcase their own talents, either in writing or other aspects. This means they will very much romanticize what they experienced and even without realizing it will sugar coat the experience, which is clear conflict of interests. As for demos, these are the polished versions of a limited scope of the game. I can't tell you how many times I have enjoyed a demo much more than the actual full game. Lets review something: why would you hold something behind your back, and ask people to pay you in full before you give it to them? I will let you draw your own conclusion on that one (even if it does hurt some prides).

I was going to continue adding some more points, but instead of this becoming a warning, it would look like a rant. My sincere advice to my fellow players is to NOT purchase the game outright until the NDA is lifted and the beta crowds give you the real low-down on how things are. You will not loose out on anything since the beta chars get whiped, and you will enjoy your journey much better on launch day. Best case scenerio you will realize the game is not for you and would have saved some cash. Worst case scenario you loose out on some early gameplay, which would get deleted anyways.

This has been a public service announcement :-P

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Comments

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by Sephastus

    2) Pay Full price BEFORE an NDA has been lifted

    My word, who would do such a thing? Please... just think for a moment.

    Blizzard fans did that -- for Starcraft2 and past games

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/starcraft-ii-beta-access-included-with-preorder-6259222

    paying for beta is nothing new

     

    I paid for beta for World of Warcraft back in 2004

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    You're right, I should hold off... hello, what's this? A receipt for the Collector's Edition already paid in full?

     

    SWEET!

     

    It's not a trap if you go in willingly and prefer not to leave.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • ltankltank Member UncommonPosts: 293

    Even UO had a pay to beta test. I think it cost $2 and you had to mail it in since the internet was still basically in its infancy.

  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,336

    97 posts, joined 2009... welcome to the world of mmos :P

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • NeoZcar2NeoZcar2 Member Posts: 136

    Played the game at PAX, played at Gamescom, been waiting for about 5 years... Yep I purchased it because the game was great 2 years ago when I played it... And they have only been making it better ever since. GW 1 was a great game, great lore, great world. Was it a WoW clone? Hell No. But that doesnt make it bad. GW2 is even better. Aesthetically one of the ebst games of all time, smooth, complicated combat. No stand and spam garbage. 

     

    Is it a trap? Not at all. This game is a blessing to those of us who actually know what Arenanet is about, and have been waiting on this game since we finished the storylines in GW1.

  • NasaNasa Member UncommonPosts: 695

    No one is forcing you to anything.

    You can buy the game when you feel you have all the information you need.

    I will pre-purchase because I have faith in Arenanet and I have enough info atm.

  • SephastusSephastus Member UncommonPosts: 455

    Originally posted by Volkon

    ...

    It's not a trap if you go in willingly and prefer not to leave.

    Says the crab when he willingly goes into the crab-trap to eat his fish. lol

    If you are fine with what you are getting, more power to you. Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times. Those are the ones I give the friendly advice.

  • KwintpodKwintpod Member Posts: 262

    They're also handing out beta keys to various sites(I'm guessing to mmorpg.com as well) for the beta weekends, just like they did for the original game(which I didn't pre-order either and still got in every beta event) so I wouldn't worry too much.

  • JesseBFoxJesseBFox Member Posts: 134

    Correction:

    Quote from Martin Kerstein of Arena Net " Our BWEs will not be under NDA,"

    Source: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/gwj-mike-obrien-with-some-t34199.html?p=1311579#post1311579

    I heartily recommend anyone with doubts to wait on prepurchase until they can get their hands on the game or watch someone they know play it live. But it is a decision each person makes on their own.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by Sephastus

    If you are fine with what you are getting, more power to you. Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times. Those are the ones I give the friendly advice.

    ive been burned  (looks at funcom mmos and hellgate)

    you are correct that buying before NDA lifts, etc puts the buyer at jeapardy

     

    but if you like the company enough - you will take the risk

  • NasaNasa Member UncommonPosts: 695

    Originally posted by Sephastus

    Some of us are a bit more cautious after being burned one too many times.

    Some of us have not been burned, because we have done the propper research.

  • FalcomithFalcomith Member UncommonPosts: 807

    I'll just talk about number 1, "Pay to Test". This is actually a great idea for ArenaNet and the community. The people who bought in to test will be more likely to test the game. You wont have the issues, like in Tera's last two closed betas, where you have all the kiddies talking about there body parts in chat. It also will give a sense of what the community will be like because the people who are in the weekend tests, will be the people in at launch. Not to say we are not going to see some of the people we saw in Tera, but it will be allot less. Anyway, I think its brilliant and hope more will do this. People who bought early, will be the serious testers.

  • jblahjblah Member UncommonPosts: 368

    I agree as all the red flags are there such as pre-purchase instead of pre-order and no release date etc but what disturbs me the most is that due to how GW2 is doing this it will ensure that the next companies do the same.

     

    From now on instead of paying  5 dollars for access to beta they will just make you buy the whole game before you do. Then if you don't like it they got your money and who cares. This "innovative" way to do preorders or prepurchase as it will now be called removes the ability to vote with your wallet. I would expect this from a company like Funcom but I suppose GW2 is trying to be more "innovative".

     

    $5 was not a huge investment for beta access and allowed the developer to get some money while the consumer was given beta access. Now it will just be buy the game for full price then we will give you access. This new trend is going to be very disturbing for some.

    Playing- Guild Wars 2, SWTOR
    SWTOR Referral Link Get a free Server Transfer and lots of other free stuff for your SWTOR account! Works for both new and previous players.

  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,888

    Originally posted by Sephastus

    Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product.

     

    'Peer reviews' on today's internet are as worthless as any game site review, what with all the professional shilling and reputation management that exists.

    For someone who is so preachy to others on being clever, I am suprised you didn't know that.

     

  • speedymcmanspeedymcman Member UncommonPosts: 24
    ANet is offering a service which allows us to buy the full game (which I was going to do anyways), give us access to the CBT Weekends, & 3 day headstart access. People have preorded all types of games in the past two decades, the only thing that makes this one different is that we get bonuses. Trolololol?
  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by jblah

    I agree as all the red flags are there such as pre-purchase instead of pre-order and no release date etc but what disturbs me the most is that due to how GW2 is doing this it will ensure that the next companies do the same.

    for Diabo3 Blizzard has no nda

    but I bet Blizzard does the same thing for their Titan mmo (just like they did for Starcraft2)

    - pay for full game prior to release, get access to Closed beta

     

    GW2 isnt starting any trend, Blizzard and others have done this for years

     

    only thing that ANET is guilty of, is continuing the old trend

  • jblahjblah Member UncommonPosts: 368

    Originally posted by speedymcman

    ANet is offering a service which allows us to buy the full game (which I was going to do anyways), give us access to the CBT Weekends, & 3 day headstart access. People have preorded all types of games in the past two decades, the only thing that makes this one different is that we get bonuses. Trolololol?

    Very wrong, what is different or "innovative" is that they are the first company that has asked for full price before NDA drop or release date announced. They all give bonuses and beta access now but usually for a $5 pre order price, not a pre-purchase price.

    Playing- Guild Wars 2, SWTOR
    SWTOR Referral Link Get a free Server Transfer and lots of other free stuff for your SWTOR account! Works for both new and previous players.

  • dageezadageeza Member Posts: 578

    Generally speaking i would agree with the OP as a general rule i do not/would not pre-purchase from companies im weary of (which is most of them) but i do make exceptions and GW2 is one of them as i have had hands on play and love the games concepts and design plus i trust arenanet to deliver in style so i did not hesitate to make a pre-purchase here..

    If ever someone was going to jump off the deep end and risk a pre-purchase GW2 would likely be your best bet..

    Playing GW2..

  • asrlohzasrlohz Member Posts: 645

    @Thane Well, let's be fair, you've only made 21 more posts / year than him.

    Whilst I am honestly not in a position to argue here considering my low posting rate I would still like to add that you aren't either. However this is kind of irrelevant to the matter so I'll just throw in my opinion about the beta testing.

     

    If you want to play GW2 so bad that you'd put up with some bugs and poor graphics (The latest beta did have high settings but the previous ones didn't) I'd say it's quite alright. And it would in any case be better of them to just have press playing their game right now so why would they allow random people who'd most likely just complain about the games flaws because they didn't realise that the game isn't complete. But if these regular people suddenly started paying for it?

    Not that everyone would complain, but point is, money is money and if everyone is desperate enough to play a semi-finished game why not make some money out of it. You're not REQUIRED to send in bug reports anyhow.

    image
  • andre369andre369 Member UncommonPosts: 970

     

    In all honesty, how many times have most of us complained that once a game is released, it feels like you are paying to beta test it for them because of some irks or outright bugs we find in it... But in GW2 you are ACTUALLY paying in order to beta test it. It's not a PRIVILAGE, it's a service. And I don't know about you, but when I provide a service, I want to be paid, or otherwise compensated for it. But in this case, you are paying THEM in order to test their game out. Just pure ridiculousness...


     


    Yea or you can contribute to actually making the game bug free so you can ENJOY the game THEY have made for YOU. Its not charity.

  • speedymcmanspeedymcman Member UncommonPosts: 24
    Well. Pre-purchase is for people who have already decided to buy the game. If you have a problem with not knowing enough info due to NDA not dropping (even though press has released a ton of info about the game) then just wait? Noone is forcing you to pay for the game now.
  • SephastusSephastus Member UncommonPosts: 455

    Originally posted by Vesavius

    Originally posted by Sephastus

    Please... just think for a moment. Peer review is one of the best judges of an item, specially when there is no conflict of interest. News sites and some demo tests are NOT a good judgement of the final product.

     

    'Peer reviews' on today's internet are as worthless as any game site review, what with all the professional shilling and reputation management that exists.

    For someone who is so preachy to others on being clever, I am suprised you didn't know that.

     

    So are you saying that if a few hundred thousand people like something, while only a few hundred dislike it, that it is a failed product that you will not like? Chances are you will like it as well.

    Forgive me if I sounded preachy, but you sound mighty "Higher than though" with your "I am surprised you didn't know that" comment. Isn't that a bigger sin. :-P

    As for the post about my post count, I scoured these forums for years before I made an account, and I mostly read, not comment. Certain things, however, just push my buttons.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,282

    It's a small amount of money, if people have the faith to pre-order despite the NDA being up and no launch date set, more power to them, not like there's much on the line to lose, and they can always cancel.

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • IGBTIGBT Member Posts: 21

    Are you guys for real?  This game only costs four months of WoW play time.

     

    Think what you could do during that four months!  You could play hundreds of AV matches where you would enjoy hours of reporting botters...or you could run around stormwind pulling out your various mounts...or you could join a pug raid and wipe 20 times on the first boss because everyone is in blue pvp gear....so much fun to be had for your $60 instead of buying GW2.

     

    (I bought two copies of DE today :-) )

  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,336

    Originally posted by asrlohz

    @Thane Well, let's be fair, you've only made 21 more posts / year than him.

    Whilst I am honestly not in a position to argue here considering my low posting rate I would still like to add that you aren't either. However this is kind of irrelevant to the matter so I'll just throw in my opinion about the beta testing.

     

    If you want to play GW2 so bad that you'd put up with some bugs and poor graphics (The latest beta did have high settings but the previous ones didn't) I'd say it's quite alright. And it would in any case be better of them to just have press playing their game right now so why would they allow random people who'd most likely just complain about the games flaws because they didn't realise that the game isn't complete. But if these regular people suddenly started paying for it?

    Not that everyone would complain, but point is, money is money and if everyone is desperate enough to play a semi-finished game why not make some money out of it. You're not REQUIRED to send in bug reports anyhow.

    point being, i am playing mmos for ages now, and every release with preorder it's the same "Mimimimimi".

    why do people care how OTHERS spend their money? if we spend it, we obviously have enough to do so ^^

    where is the problem??

     

    people went from "i don't like it, i don't play it" over "i don't like it, but my friends do, so i play it" straight to "iu don't like it! YOU MUST NOT LIKE IT EITHER!"

    i'll never understand that.

     

     

    uh and betas changed over the years.

    after noticing "open beta" phases with like 10k or 100k people to find bugs did not really work out (since everyone thought it's a preview and no "beta"), devs changed their betas abit lately. they take "internal" testers, have testphases more closed and do a "public" / preorder phase just like everyone expected it, a preview phase for potential costumers.

    it's nice that NOW everyone claims to be the perfect beta tester, but seriously... 80% did never ever file a bug report :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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