Alright so we are being accused of being mad now too :?
For the record I play a game its another mmorpgI am happy with it I have been playing it for 4 months almost since I stopped TOR mid subscription and I see myself playing this game for the rest of the year and into next. However I am willing to "try" other ones as they release.
Alright so we are being accused of being mad now too :?
For the record I play a game its another mmorpgI am happy with it I have been playing it for 4 months almost since I stopped TOR mid subscription and I see myself playing this game for the rest of the year and into next. However I am willing to "try" other ones as they release.
Good for you so thats one of my "they must be mad list" thanks
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.
Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.
See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.
Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.
Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.
Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.
Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.
See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.
Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.
Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.
Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.
Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.
See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.
Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.
Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.
Soooo, RPGs cant have:
open world
no quests
constant war
no instances
because?
rofl
Buyers remorse at it's best
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
You hear it time and again, people play a little of the starter worlds quests, they pee vee pee non stop, the planet quests turn grey, they jam through the personal story and hit 50 in a week or two.
................
Well better if you like role playing games anyway.
You're definitely right, to a point, but I think for this game in particular you are overlooking something.
The game has been out for a few months now, and it's insanely easy to lvl. Most of the people still playing have been playing since launch, and have seen the same planet over & over again. Reused & recycled. The only things that are really 'new' are the class quests, which is why a lot of players are only doing those now, and PvPing to fill in the gaps.
Not only is it faster for lvling, but they've already done the same ol' kill X womprats quest too many times. The story is the only 'new' thing holding their interests.
I would call it a very good rpg, cutscenes take the place of the old read the wall of text over the npc's head, that's an improvement by any account.
Name me the rpg you like, I have played many and open world aka sandbox never amounts to more than a niche and everyone damn well knows it.
You can trivialize and be sarcastic, but the fact is many people hate rpgs, have never role played, ridicule those that do and yet flock to rpg games with the veiled hopes of making it a hop and pop persistant first person shooter.
Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.
What? That have nothing to do with it.
The whole point of a massive multiplayer roleplaying game is to play with plenty of other people. Far from all open world games are sandboxes, Lineage was open and so were plenty of other games not that long ago that had nothing to do with sandboxes. Semantics, some people call them one or the other and dont define which is which. Sometimes people say open world meaning pvp everywhere, others mean no construct, just vast spaces with mobs to grind like Lineage.
I don't mind cutscenes myself, but I think TOR have far too many. Some sets the mode but getting constantly interupted is annoying. Personal preference, I love the dialog and cutscenes, it sells the game over any old text scroller, in my opinion.
Don't lecture to me about roleplaying, I had play roleplaying games long before the first MMO released (M59, which I also played). I'm not lecturing you, dont puff up and play tough guy, no where here do I point you out and say all this applies to you.
To me it seems like you think that there only are 2 ways to make a game, TORs way and Halos way. Maybe that's because you are interjecting yourself into what I say, no where in this post do I use you as my reference or example. I am overstating to make a point that we both know to be true however, (many people playing mmorpg's hate mmorpg's and just wont admit it), I do hate asian style open world mob grinders though.
As I see it do roleplay games not tell you how to do stuff all the time. In P&P RPGs you are presented with a problem and solve it yourself. In games like TOR you can choose between a few ways and once you choosed the game tells you exactly what to do. The word for that isn't roleplaying but railroading. Then I excuse you from playing, you may now go back to your favorite game.
FPS games should be about fast reflexes while RPGs should be about brain power. And the old MMOs actually forced you to think once in a while.
I am not saying that TOR is a bad game, but it could be a lot better. Agreed, I know it's been 3 whole months now but I think they have some irons in the fire to help it along.
Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.
Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.
See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.
Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.
Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.
Let me know how fun those planets are on your forth time through since the game revolves around creating alts.
The stories are mediocre at best but the game was some what entertaining the first time through but as I played it just fight like WoW with some glow sticks and movies thrown in. But they were not trying to reinvent anything so I guess overall they succeeded in createing a run of the mill mmo.
Quit SWTOR simply because at best it's a mediocre mmo, with story decisions making little to no impact on progression and distracting from the wider world, the SRPG didn't gel with the multi player aspect and the world feels completely static. I don't PvP and felt the game wasn't worth the sub at all. From my perspective it's just not a very good game.
I can understand your point directed at one particular player base but it's clearly not that simple, very few of my guild of PvE players made it through the first month, probably about 10% and none of them are still playing. I'm glad your enjoying it and other people are but don't lump together all players together who don't like it to fit your agenda.
I think the issue here is a tad more faceted to be fair.
I do accept your argument that people rush to the end and got bored. I basically have to put aside 6-7 hours to play because I always like to finish a planets story before I move on, in some ways it's pretty hardcore timewise. It does mean I go days without playing at times.
There are issues with the game and some of them are genuine. Ability lag, uneven difficulty class quests, VO is great but the quest tasks lack variety, oh and PVP. Yes the PVP is broken, (although why in a game with apparently 200 hours of content you'd want to farm BGs all day is beyond me, but fundamentally if it's this broken it shouldn't be there), and clearly Biowares admission that it needs a complete refub is damaging.
I do think it's a bit rich to claim anyone who doesn't like the PVP is somehow expecting a FPS style arena game. Tab targeting PVP in MMOs are popular with a certain crowd, it's not for me, but a PVP system centred around IIum was advertised as a feature at launch. It doesn't work correctly, so people will complain.
On the other hand, this game will always get a rough ride on these forums for a few reasons. The first is it's not SWG or more precisely SWG 2.0.
Yes there are still people who hang around here and tell everyone that if you can't build a moisture vaporator in a Star Wars game it's vaporware. The bitter pre-NGE vets have found someone else to rat on. SOE must be thrilled for the break, frankly.
Another reason is that it's published by EA, people hate EA with good reason.
But of course on these boards it extends to 'conspricacy' theories about how good reviews were bribed and other such nonsense. The irony is these people are trying to supposedly reveal the, 'truth', while imposing their own, 'reality', that the games dying. This reached even newer heights after the 1.7 million figure came out and the same haters claimed it was a lie, even though that would technically be illegal.
The last reason is the setup isn't radically different.
Yes SWTOR is innovative, it has done things differently, (VO, crewskills, companions etc), but it's essentially a dungeon/raid grinder game. A style of game that has few supporters on these forums, well those who claim they don't support that sort of thing...unless you put the word, 'dynamic', in front of everything then it's all good, sorry couldn't help it :P
That's my view anyway, I still enjoy the game and it was what I expected it to be. In my opinion, Bioware did tell me what style of game they were going for and it's lived up to that mostly. For some that'll never be enough though, for various reasons stated above and there are problems with it that are worthy of criticism.
EDIT: Terrible spelling, punctuation, grammar and to clarify position
If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.
I wanted a good MMO, so I stopped playing TOR...I got the quit playing it down.
LOL! This is sooo true of most of us I think
Steps:
1. quit playing the games you hate
2. stop buying them before they are released
3. stop buying them
4. decide what you want to play other than "MMO"
5. buy that game (MMO or not)
People like MMOs because of the community and the carrot and stick. . . the community is gone, they took the stick out and that same old carrot is getting moldy and starting to upset your stomach when you get a nibble.. even if they paint it purple
SWTOR is the game not the players, as there simply is not enough to do it, and warrant a monnthly fee.
SWG was the players and not the game, there was plenty of stuiff to do in the game, more so than any MMO ever to exist, but people could not get forgive the bugs and the NGE, and then in turn lowered the support the game got. If people stayed faithful to the game, more devs would have worked on it and made it better, but instead as time went on the staff reduced, and were not able to maintain it as it could have done.
I'll do the smart remark if you want. So this leaving en mass do you have a source or like other posters you're getting you "information" from these boards?
How else would you explain 41 people online in imperial fleet on a server (basilisk droid) that had 3h queues at launch?
Kind of expounding on the "Fourth Pillar", I cant help but point out the real line between happy subscribers and unhappy unsubscribers is play style.
I've said it before, big title mmorpg's brought many new players into the fold, gone are the days of the close knit, die hard "yes M'lady" crowd from rpg games like EQ.
The reoccuring theme with the bulk of unhappy ex players is the way they typically play the game, (a quick caviot) I don't mean every single person fits this mold so use common sense at will.
You hear it time and again, people play a little of the starter worlds quests, they pee vee pee non stop, the planet quests turn grey, they jam through the personal story and hit 50 in a week or two.
The same people will tell you how much they hate the planets and the linear quests and so on, open world pvp is all that matters ect. even though most of them haven't seen anymore of the individual worlds outside of the flight paths to the class quests they jammed through.
It's the way I and many others played Warcraft, rip through the levels, get to endgame so you can farm gear in the arena or raids, and then quit because you are bored.
I am utterly content to play my character, fly to a planet and entrench myself in the content, levels happen with a story unfolding from talking, living beings in the worlds.
Sorry if this rpg game didn't meet your fps style, contrary to the silly and typical sky is falling crowd here, the game is still in existence and after a few months now, developement is ongoing to make it better.
Well better if you like role playing games anyway.
Its like listening to bioware rep, it aint the game its the players. Swtor should copy right that line.
Truth is that swtor is a short term game, and indeed can be fun for a short time. But it will have 0 lasting power except from sw fans and hugh story fans. We will see in the future how many there are of you.
Most want a good story but also a solid game behind it, sadly swtor dont offer this.
Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product.
Actually it is. People want to run out and buy something without making sure they are going to like it (i.e research) and then rant because it doesn't meet their requirements? Yeah, it's their fault.
I would not call SWTOR too much of an RPG either. Watching a movie is not Roleplaying. Spending 33% of the time in a cut-scene or dialogue does not make it more RolePlaying. Reading a book is not Roleplaying. In SWTOR, the "roleplaying" is as passive as it can be in a video game. Being you, I wouldn't make much fun of those that wish to play an open world MMORPG, since that is actually much more "roleplaying" that you'll ever get by watching a 3 minute cut-scene.
I would call it a very good rpg, cutscenes take the place of the old read the wall of text over the npc's head, that's an improvement by any account.
Name me the rpg you like, I have played many and open world aka sandbox never amounts to more than a niche and everyone damn well knows it.
You can trivialize and be sarcastic, but the fact is many people hate rpgs, have never role played, ridicule those that do and yet flock to rpg games with the veiled hopes of making it a hop and pop persistant first person shooter.
Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.
Since when is 'niche' a bad thing? Just because something is niche doesnt mean it sucks. Actually, its quite the contrary.
Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.
Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.
See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.
Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.
Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.
I just wanted to let you know I am a MMORPG fan, I dont normally play (but have tried) MMOFPS. I played & enjoyed WOW, EQ2 for many years. I have played a lot of MMOS that are out there (AION, Warhammer, AOC, COH/COV, DCUO, LOTRO)
I leveled up with friends purely by quests and instances and only pvp'd once while leveling (At endgame Ipvp daily b/c well theres ot much else to do i had finished all dailies and did the two raids). So I did not skip the questing content. I loved the genre - read Drew's book even before hand and played KOTOR.
SWTOR didnt do it for me, so I am back playing EQ2. I am glad you are enjoying it, but to me (a MMORPG fan) it was lacking in the MMO department.
Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product.
Actually it is. People want to run out and buy something without making sure they are going to like it (i.e research) and then rant because it doesn't meet their requirements? Yeah, it's their fault.
No. It is not. If you bring out a product which people dont like it is your fault for not gauging your potential customers before creating the product. You can never say it is the customers fault for not liking your product. It is the responsibility of the producers/developers to create something which people will like, it is never the responsibility of consumers to like a product, ever.
Comments
Alright so we are being accused of being mad now too :?
For the record I play a game its another mmorpgI am happy with it I have been playing it for 4 months almost since I stopped TOR mid subscription and I see myself playing this game for the rest of the year and into next. However I am willing to "try" other ones as they release.
Good for you so thats one of my "they must be mad list" thanks
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Some of you folks are amazing, words and thoughts are just abstract colors for you to paw at.
Try and read the post, break it down into sections and take your time with each sentence, take breaks in between to allow for some retention.
See my point is if you cant name an rpg you like, a favorite so to speak, but instead assault them ad hoc, the problem may ***MAY*** be your taste in games.
Planetside 2 is a persistant first person shooter, open world, no quests, constant war, no instances, all shooting all the time.
Sound good? then you ***MAY*** be an MMOFPS fan and not an MMORPG fan.
Soooo, RPGs cant have:
open world
no quests
constant war
no instances
"all shooting all the time"
because?
rofl
Buyers remorse at it's best
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
You're definitely right, to a point, but I think for this game in particular you are overlooking something.
The game has been out for a few months now, and it's insanely easy to lvl. Most of the people still playing have been playing since launch, and have seen the same planet over & over again. Reused & recycled. The only things that are really 'new' are the class quests, which is why a lot of players are only doing those now, and PvPing to fill in the gaps.
Not only is it faster for lvling, but they've already done the same ol' kill X womprats quest too many times. The story is the only 'new' thing holding their interests.
What's your favorite mmorpg?
Let me know how fun those planets are on your forth time through since the game revolves around creating alts.
The stories are mediocre at best but the game was some what entertaining the first time through but as I played it just fight like WoW with some glow sticks and movies thrown in. But they were not trying to reinvent anything so I guess overall they succeeded in createing a run of the mill mmo.
Favourite online games = GW and AoC
Quit SWTOR simply because at best it's a mediocre mmo, with story decisions making little to no impact on progression and distracting from the wider world, the SRPG didn't gel with the multi player aspect and the world feels completely static. I don't PvP and felt the game wasn't worth the sub at all. From my perspective it's just not a very good game.
I can understand your point directed at one particular player base but it's clearly not that simple, very few of my guild of PvE players made it through the first month, probably about 10% and none of them are still playing. I'm glad your enjoying it and other people are but don't lump together all players together who don't like it to fit your agenda.
Some people like the genre Bioware has created......railpark....some like myself can't stand it besides pressing spacebar is tedious.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I think the issue here is a tad more faceted to be fair.
I do accept your argument that people rush to the end and got bored. I basically have to put aside 6-7 hours to play because I always like to finish a planets story before I move on, in some ways it's pretty hardcore timewise. It does mean I go days without playing at times.
There are issues with the game and some of them are genuine. Ability lag, uneven difficulty class quests, VO is great but the quest tasks lack variety, oh and PVP. Yes the PVP is broken, (although why in a game with apparently 200 hours of content you'd want to farm BGs all day is beyond me, but fundamentally if it's this broken it shouldn't be there), and clearly Biowares admission that it needs a complete refub is damaging.
I do think it's a bit rich to claim anyone who doesn't like the PVP is somehow expecting a FPS style arena game. Tab targeting PVP in MMOs are popular with a certain crowd, it's not for me, but a PVP system centred around IIum was advertised as a feature at launch. It doesn't work correctly, so people will complain.
On the other hand, this game will always get a rough ride on these forums for a few reasons. The first is it's not SWG or more precisely SWG 2.0.
Yes there are still people who hang around here and tell everyone that if you can't build a moisture vaporator in a Star Wars game it's vaporware. The bitter pre-NGE vets have found someone else to rat on. SOE must be thrilled for the break, frankly.
Another reason is that it's published by EA, people hate EA with good reason.
But of course on these boards it extends to 'conspricacy' theories about how good reviews were bribed and other such nonsense. The irony is these people are trying to supposedly reveal the, 'truth', while imposing their own, 'reality', that the games dying. This reached even newer heights after the 1.7 million figure came out and the same haters claimed it was a lie, even though that would technically be illegal.
The last reason is the setup isn't radically different.
Yes SWTOR is innovative, it has done things differently, (VO, crewskills, companions etc), but it's essentially a dungeon/raid grinder game. A style of game that has few supporters on these forums, well those who claim they don't support that sort of thing...unless you put the word, 'dynamic', in front of everything then it's all good, sorry couldn't help it :P
That's my view anyway, I still enjoy the game and it was what I expected it to be. In my opinion, Bioware did tell me what style of game they were going for and it's lived up to that mostly. For some that'll never be enough though, for various reasons stated above and there are problems with it that are worthy of criticism.
EDIT: Terrible spelling, punctuation, grammar and to clarify position
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
LOL! This is sooo true of most of us I think
Steps:
1. quit playing the games you hate
2. stop buying them before they are released
3. stop buying them
4. decide what you want to play other than "MMO"
5. buy that game (MMO or not)
People like MMOs because of the community and the carrot and stick. . . the community is gone, they took the stick out and that same old carrot is getting moldy and starting to upset your stomach when you get a nibble.. even if they paint it purple
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
SWTOR is the game not the players, as there simply is not enough to do it, and warrant a monnthly fee.
SWG was the players and not the game, there was plenty of stuiff to do in the game, more so than any MMO ever to exist, but people could not get forgive the bugs and the NGE, and then in turn lowered the support the game got. If people stayed faithful to the game, more devs would have worked on it and made it better, but instead as time went on the staff reduced, and were not able to maintain it as it could have done.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
How else would you explain 41 people online in imperial fleet on a server (basilisk droid) that had 3h queues at launch?
Its like listening to bioware rep, it aint the game its the players. Swtor should copy right that line.
Truth is that swtor is a short term game, and indeed can be fun for a short time. But it will have 0 lasting power except from sw fans and hugh story fans. We will see in the future how many there are of you.
Most want a good story but also a solid game behind it, sadly swtor dont offer this.
Universe: It's not me it's the bloody planets to blame! Look over there, it's the goodyear blimp! Exit stage left.
It is not but these threads show up on the main page and I still have opinions about SW:TOR.
My gaming blog
Did the OP really just say people arent hipster enough to understand SWTOR?
Its not the players it's the game, just saying.
Actually it is. People want to run out and buy something without making sure they are going to like it (i.e research) and then rant because it doesn't meet their requirements? Yeah, it's their fault.
Since when is 'niche' a bad thing? Just because something is niche doesnt mean it sucks. Actually, its quite the contrary.
I just wanted to let you know I am a MMORPG fan, I dont normally play (but have tried) MMOFPS. I played & enjoyed WOW, EQ2 for many years. I have played a lot of MMOS that are out there (AION, Warhammer, AOC, COH/COV, DCUO, LOTRO)
I leveled up with friends purely by quests and instances and only pvp'd once while leveling (At endgame Ipvp daily b/c well theres ot much else to do i had finished all dailies and did the two raids). So I did not skip the questing content. I loved the genre - read Drew's book even before hand and played KOTOR.
SWTOR didnt do it for me, so I am back playing EQ2. I am glad you are enjoying it, but to me (a MMORPG fan) it was lacking in the MMO department.
No. It is not. If you bring out a product which people dont like it is your fault for not gauging your potential customers before creating the product. You can never say it is the customers fault for not liking your product. It is the responsibility of the producers/developers to create something which people will like, it is never the responsibility of consumers to like a product, ever.
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