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It's the players not the game

Kind of expounding on the "Fourth Pillar", I cant help but point out the real line between happy subscribers and unhappy unsubscribers is play style.

I've said it before, big title mmorpg's brought many new players into the fold, gone are the days of the close knit, die hard "yes M'lady" crowd from rpg games like EQ.

The reoccuring theme with the bulk of unhappy ex players is the way they typically play the game, (a quick caviot) I don't mean every single person fits this mold so use common sense at will.

You hear it time and again, people play a little of the starter worlds quests,  they pee vee pee non stop,  the planet quests turn grey, they jam through the personal story and hit 50 in a week or two.

The same people will tell you how much they hate the planets and the linear quests and so on, open world pvp is all that matters ect. even though most of them haven't seen anymore of the individual worlds outside of the flight paths to the class quests they jammed through.

It's the way I and many others played Warcraft, rip through the levels, get to endgame so you can farm gear in the arena or raids, and then quit because you are bored.

I am utterly content to play my character, fly to a planet and entrench myself in the content, levels happen with a story unfolding from talking, living beings in the worlds.

Sorry if this rpg game didn't meet your fps style, contrary to the silly and typical sky is falling crowd here, the game is still in existence and after a few months now, developement is ongoing to make it better.

Well better if you like role playing games anyway.

 

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Comments

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,713

    It's me...not you!

     

    I guess you are kind of right, I mean, go pay $80 for a updated pong, and if you don't enjoy it, it's your fault!  No game is ever really bad....Just the player doesnt 'get' it.

     

     

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Member Posts: 325

    If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.

  • hurriedcorgihurriedcorgi Member Posts: 16

    Maybe I just don't want games that are afraid to hurt a 2 year olds feelings with no threat of loss? There is no reward without risk and I find the games boring not because of the content but because there is no feeling of accomplishment to me without risk.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Member Posts: 325

    There are great FPS titles out right now, get out of the closet and tell it like it is, Counterstrike, Battlefield, Planetside 2 might be the perfect game for many of you.

    MMOPVP is what you all really want, open world, no rules, perma death? whatever you like, start looking for titles that make you happy and stop trying to change the ones that don't.

  • xmentyxmenty Member UncommonPosts: 716

    You do know this forum where people rant their anger without being censored or permanent banned from BW / EA, right?

    You should have not read about people ranting if you know it will make you piss off.

    What you  should so is just read about the good stuff on SWTOR and you will be happier.

     

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • ThillianThillian Member UncommonPosts: 3,156

    I would not call SWTOR too much of an RPG either. Watching a movie is not Roleplaying. Spending 33% of the time in a cut-scene or dialogue does not make it more RolePlaying. Reading a book is not Roleplaying. In SWTOR, the "roleplaying" is as passive as it can be in a video game. Being you, I wouldn't make much fun of those that wish to play an open world MMORPG, since that is actually much more "roleplaying" that you'll ever get by watching a 3 minute cut-scene.

    REALITY CHECK

  • CothorCothor Member UncommonPosts: 174

    This game is not good because it lacks sandbox elements. It is clear at this point that people are tired of the same game with different graphics, over and over. Newer games need to be half sandbox and half warcraft or they are going to fall into the niche bracket with low numbers.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Member Posts: 325

    Originally posted by xmenty

    You do know this forum where people rant their anger without being censored or permanent banned from BW / EA, right?

    You should have not read about people ranting if you know it will make you piss off.

    What you  should so is just read about the good stuff on SWTOR and you will be happier.

     

    I have no idea what you are talking about,

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,713

    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.

     I wanted a good MMO, so I stopped playing TOR...I got the quit playing it down.

     

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    I agree with you sentiments totally. The problem modern MMO makers have is that the people that play these days are all wanting diferent things, you have your Sanboxers (big whingers), PvP'ers (even bigger whingers), PvE'ers (whinge a bit because its not like certain *insert game*) and so on. All these scramble to the next big release and if it doesn't meet their particular standards the game is rubbish. poor, a waste of time and money, but the sad thing thing is like a swarm of locusts (wonder where I got that term) they move onto the next game devouring all the content in a few weeks with multiple capped toons and rush to the forums with their "critiques". For people with an interest and enjoyment of a game its happy time as they can be left inpeace to play a game they enjoy. I'm so looking forward to the release of GW2 for two reasons one the fallout when players realise its not the second coming and two we will see less bitching about SW:TOR. Though to be fair on the two servers that I play on you do not see any whinging from the players which sort of contradicts the all out holy war fought on these boards.

     

    I'm personally loving the stories and VO for me it makes the world come alive and helps me really feel that I'm part of something bigger. But thats me and don't expect everyone to feel that way so I don't make a big song and dance about unless I feel like it as in this thread.  A problem I also see is that its Bioware and its Star Wars and that is playing with players childhoods and you don't fuck with them no matter how much of it is seen through those rosey glasses.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    Originally posted by Cothor

    This game is not good because it lacks sandbox elements. It is clear at this point that people are tired of the same game with different graphics, over and over. Newer games need to be half sandbox and half warcraft or they are going to fall into the niche bracket with low numbers.

     

    Did you get your "clear" information from reading forums?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637

    Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

    No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

    SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    Originally posted by Thillian

    I would not call SWTOR too much of an RPG either. Watching a movie is not Roleplaying. Spending 33% of the time in a cut-scene or dialogue does not make it more RolePlaying. Reading a book is not Roleplaying. In SWTOR, the "roleplaying" is as passive as it can be in a video game. Being you, I wouldn't make much fun of those that wish to play an open world MMORPG, since that is actually much more "roleplaying" that you'll ever get by watching a 3 minute cut-scene.

     

    You forgot IMHO.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Member Posts: 325

    Originally posted by Thillian

    I would not call SWTOR too much of an RPG either. Watching a movie is not Roleplaying. Spending 33% of the time in a cut-scene or dialogue does not make it more RolePlaying. Reading a book is not Roleplaying. In SWTOR, the "roleplaying" is as passive as it can be in a video game. Being you, I wouldn't make much fun of those that wish to play an open world MMORPG, since that is actually much more "roleplaying" that you'll ever get by watching a 3 minute cut-scene.

    I would call it a very good rpg, cutscenes take the place of the old read the wall of text over the npc's head, that's an improvement by any account.

    Name me the rpg you like, I have played many and open world aka sandbox never amounts to more than a niche and everyone damn well knows it.

    You can trivialize and be sarcastic, but the fact is many people hate rpgs, have never role played, ridicule those that do and yet flock to rpg games with the veiled hopes of making it a hop and pop persistant first person shooter.

    Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

    No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

    SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

     

    I'll do the smart remark if you want. So this leaving en mass do you have a source or like other posters you're getting you "information" from these boards?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    If you bought pong and didn't like it, it's your fault, that's the point. Stop playing rpg's if you want fps pvp.

    Yeah, but in that case TORs shouldn't had the PvP in the first case, and the marketting was what lured these people in.

    The golden rule of games is "Do it right or not at all".

    So as I see it are both part to blame, EAs marketting tricked people who shouldn't have played the game to buy it and Bioware added PvP as an afterthought because they think MMOs must have it.

    The same have happened in  PvP based games who added some lame PvE and tried to sell to PvE fans as well. If it ain't good it will hurt your game, no matter if you sell more boxes the first month.

  • GorillaGorilla Member UncommonPosts: 2,234

    Originally posted by Thillian

    I would not call SWTOR too much of an RPG either. Watching a movie is not Roleplaying. Spending 33% of the time in a cut-scene or dialogue does not make it more RolePlaying. Reading a book is not Roleplaying. In SWTOR, the "roleplaying" is as passive as it can be in a video game. Being you, I wouldn't make much fun of those that wish to play an open world MMORPG, since that is actually much more "roleplaying" that you'll ever get by watching a 3 minute cut-scene.

    You could use you argument and substitue 'roleplaying' with 'gaming'. I enjoyed early BW product (who didn't) but SWTOR was the straw that broke the camels back. ME3 just confirmed it. They have gone way over board with the dialogue and completely lost sight of telling the storry through......well gameplay.

    I had fun for a few weeks sure, but I do with most new games. I would turn the OP's argument on its head and say that it's the appeal of the game is to casuals, I would also argue that you have to forgive quite a lot, rather too much actually. 

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Member Posts: 325

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

    No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

    SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

    Thanks for not reading my post, and instead making it up in your head, I pulled this quote out of it so you could skip over it again and continue your disjointed rant. "(a quick caviot) I don't mean every single person fits this mold so use common sense at will. """' "

  • ipekaipeka Member Posts: 222

    Originally posted by Xthos

    It's me...not you!

    I guess you are kind of right, I mean, go pay $80 for a updated pong, and if you don't enjoy it, it's your fault!  No game is ever really bad....Just the player doesnt 'get' it.

    imma supersized it coz i like the sarcasm

  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637

    Originally posted by Calerxes

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

    No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

    SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

     

    So this leaving on mass do you have a source or like other posters you're getting you "information" from these boards?

     

    Im willing to go with released numbers no matter how botchy EA are fudging them.

    They sold 2.2 million boxes

    They last stated when I and my friends were subscribed 1.7 million subscribers.

    That leaves half a million people.

    Now you could say that half a million people forgot to put in their codes or were so disgusted by the current state of the game they hung onto it but then again you'd be plugging evidence out of the sky that you accuse most "haters" of making things up.

    I am going to go with this: 10% of half a million people is 50,000 (whey I can do maths) to me that is a "mass" of people. That played the game and didnt like it enough.

    "enmass"  is also my personal opinion from what I have witnessed along with this basic crude evidence, its enough for me to present to court at least.  Judge Judy can settle this.

    Lets wait for the next figures to be  released Im willing to admit then I was wrong and  I have no problem with that. Everything for now points to a bad loss.

     

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    It seems that most posters on these boards are looking for another game a game that ticks all of their personally like boxes and until that day they will not be happy........ And looking into my crystal ball I predict them not being happy for a very long time while the rest of us enjoy the games in the present, shame really, its quite upsetting to see so much angst in the world of gaming but just like a mentally ill person its them and only them that change if they admit they are the problem not the world around them. As this moving from one game to the next expecting something that is not going to happen rather mad OH! yeah this. 

     

    Doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting different results is a sign of madness.

     

    Ever since I starteing reading these boards this has ben happening but the drama is sure entertaining.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product. image

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by rdrpappy

    I would call it a very good rpg, cutscenes take the place of the old read the wall of text over the npc's head, that's an improvement by any account.

    Name me the rpg you like, I have played many and open world aka sandbox never amounts to more than a niche and everyone damn well knows it.

    You can trivialize and be sarcastic, but the fact is many people hate rpgs, have never role played, ridicule those that do and yet flock to rpg games with the veiled hopes of making it a hop and pop persistant first person shooter.

    Open world is the pariah of twitch gamers who just wont let go of trying to convert rpgs into Halo.

    What? That have nothing to do with it.

    The whole point of a massive multiplayer roleplaying game is to play with plenty of other people. Far from all open world games are sandboxes, Lineage was open and so were plenty of other games not that long ago that had nothing to do with sandboxes.

    I don't mind cutscenes myself, but I think TOR have far too many. Some sets the mode but getting constantly interupted is annoying.

    Don't lecture to me about roleplaying, I had play roleplaying games long before the first MMO released (M59, which I also played).

    To me it seems like you think that there only are 2 ways to make a game, TORs way and Halos way.

    As I see it do roleplay games not tell you how to do stuff all the time. In P&P RPGs you are presented with a problem and solve it yourself. In games like TOR you can choose between a few ways and once you choosed the game tells you exactly what to do. The word for that isn't roleplaying but railroading.

    FPS games should be about fast reflexes while RPGs should be about brain power. And the old MMOs actually forced you to think once in a while.

    I am not saying that TOR is a bad game, but it could be a lot better.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Originally posted by Calerxes


    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Thanks for bunching all the quitters up into one label and pretty much stereotyping you are for sure the better person.  Consumers who leave their game do so for their own reasons if it happens enmass then theres a more serious flaw afoot.  Forgive me personally for wanting to spend my money on a game that provides me with mmorpg features and buttons that work when I press them...... sure sure 1.2 is out soon tm yeh well so is guild wars 2, diablo 3, the secret world and tera. Plus *drumroll* please so is the sunshine and the summer fun.

    No doubt you will come back with some smart remark, no matter to me as I choose to spend my money on what I want to and no amount of fanboi drivel (its the player not the game) that I read will change my mind on that.

    SWTOR will settle at around 500k subs the players will be story and roleplaying fans and enjoy the heck out of the game but thats all there is everything else is done better by other games.

     

    So this leaving on mass do you have a source or like other posters you're getting you "information" from these boards?

     

    Im willing to go with released numbers no matter how botchy EA are fudging them.

    They sold 2.2 million boxes

    They last stated when I and my friends were subscribed 1.7 million subscribers.

    That leaves half a million people.

    Now you could say that half a million people forgot to put in their codes or were so disgusted by the current state of the game they hung onto it but then again you'd be plugging evidence out of the sky that you accuse most "haters" of making things up.

    I am going to go with this: 10% of half a million people is 50,000 (whey I can do maths) to me that is a "mass" of people. That played the game and didnt like it enough.

    "enmass"  is also my personal opinion from what I have witnessed along with this basic crude evidence, its enough for me to present to court at least.  Judge Judy can settle this.

    Lets wait for the next figures to be  released Im willing to admit then I was wrong and  I have no problem with that. Everything for now points to a bad loss.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    See the last bit is sensible and thats what I'm doing, but all else is conjecture until then.

     

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • CalerxesCalerxes Member UncommonPosts: 1,641

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Yeah it is the customers fault for not liking the product. image

     

    You still around I thought SW:TOR was not to your liking?

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

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