even at a low level, at level 10, just in the cross roads, questing in the barrens, NPC was like you gotta collect 12 bird beaks, I was like DAMNIT, and grinding and questing these birds, I heard the drums of war go off, alliance attacking cross roads, they was every where, I was like aw naw son, aw naw. Even at level 10 I knew I couldnt do much, but whats this? Not just level 60s, not just level 50s, but players of all levels from 10 to 60 attacking the cross roads, knowing the Xroads was a loss cause and running for my life in the distance I saw THE HORDE and not just players but THE HORDE, a whole raid coming in defense of the cross roads, all levels, all races, all classes.
You are talking about Vanilla WoW some 6 years ago.
Since then WoW and the whole MMORPG industry went down the drain.
But I take this chances to explain to people what was the difference between the pre-WoW MMORPG and the post-WoW MMORPG, and your example is crucial.
What you describe is the last hint of a sandbox feature (unintentional of course) you could taste in WoW and any other copycat releaed after it.
Players making their own content like attacking a post (Crossroads) even if that didn't mean anything...............but it was fun, because it was a player created event.
MMORPGs should have more of that and less of the linear microwaved ready-content we have in current MMORPGs.
Before WoW you had plenty of those moments.............now what you have are just GAMES, not MMORPGs, because there is none of that Epic moments.
WoW and Epic? Dunno maybe when u log in the first time and go to orgrimmar or stormwind everything else isnt that special if you played mmorpgs pre wow.
I don't think people understand what world objectives in MMORPG PvP combat are for. While they are an RPG element they have a greater importance. Those things are meant to rally members of all factions into an area so there is a place to fight over. WoW World PvP doesn't have that, so the players make their own. The Alliance held onto the Crossroads to deny the Horde access to the NPCs, but the true objective that the Alliance had was to stir up the nearby beehive, Orgrimmar, without having all the bees come out at once.
Most people actually like Wow, but they tend to dramatise their hate to fit in with the current crowd, or because they cant think of anything else to post.
I played EQ from beta to August 2011. I had 12 years of epic moments.
Raiding fear on dial up with 70 people in the raid not knowning wth is going on and just trying to stay alive.
Raiding The Hole and wiping so deep you and your friends spend a week just to get your corpse back people think that would suck and when it happen it did, but looking back that was some of the best times people had in EQ grouping with friends and guild members to help each other out with stuff like that.
Raiding Karnors and training the zone in and wiping the groupers because they were always to stupid to not fight at the zone in.
I have epic moments from every expansion in HOT we raided for 18 hours one day just to try and be the 1st guild to beat the expansion.
I don't think people understand what world objectives in MMORPG PvP combat are for. While they are an RPG element they have a greater importance. Those things are meant to rally members of all factions into an area so there is a place to fight over. WoW World PvP doesn't have that, so the players make their own. The Alliance held onto the Crossroads to deny the Horde access to the NPCs, but the true objective that the Alliance had was to stir up the nearby beehive, Orgrimmar, without having all the bees come out at once.
I played WoW for three years.. and been part of quite a few Crossroads raids. I was never once stopped from using NPC's. I guess I'm a liittle confused here.
Most people actually like Wow, but they tend to dramatise their hate to fit in with the current crowd, or because they cant think of anything else to post.
Link?
Then this must be true too. Most people don't like WoW, but it's currently played by all of their friends and family, so they haven't left yet. They really dislike WoW, and even though they play it, they spend their time here complaining about it.
See, we can both say random generalized things without any sort of proof behind it. Fun, no?
Should have played UO, stuff like this was a constant minus the kill x birds for my Blue Socks of Doom thing. Many younger people have WoW as there UO. It is what it is.
I did play UO and no.
Must have not played UO after Trammel/Felucca split with the Factions PvP system in place.
I did have some really cool moments in WoW that I'd consider epic, and some really cool moments in UO that I'd consider epic.
But can you really weigh them and decide which was more epic objectively?
No, you can't say the UO moment was 23.58% more epic.
I deem your argument incorrect because Fansy the Famous Bard. EQ>WoW.
Haha, I remember that joker.
Flowers of Happiness, agoo... Never had many run-ins with them. Our enemies were The Begotten and Hidden Power and Sinister and DDH and The Regulators off and on.
On my lower level it was my mage vs. Alec from Darkenbane back when Darkenbane mattered.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
EQ1 is my favourite game of all time, but got to admit, the weekly battles my guild participated in at XR was immense. Never experienced anything like it. My brother joined WoW in TBC when XR was no longer being raided and regrets never playing earlier to experience the greatness of the original WoW.
Not a fan boy by any means, in fact I'm quite the opposite, but the XR raids leave me with very happy memories.
EQ1 is my favourite game of all time, but got to admit, the weekly battles my guild participated in at XR was immense. Never experienced anything like it. My brother joined WoW in TBC when XR was no longer being raided and regrets never playing earlier to experience the greatness of the original WoW.
Not a fan boy by any means, in fact I'm quite the opposite, but the XR raids leave me with very happy memories.
Yeah, it's kind of sad that Blizzard spent 8 years taking the WORLD and the WAR out of World of Warcraft.
They say they plan on bringing back both the world and the war in MoP, but after Cata I just don't have much faith in Blizz anymore.
even at a low level, at level 10, just in the cross roads, questing in the barrens, NPC was like you gotta collect 12 bird beaks, I was like DAMNIT, and grinding and questing these birds, I heard the drums of war go off, alliance attacking cross roads, they was every where, I was like aw naw son, aw naw. Even at level 10 I knew I couldnt do much, but whats this? Not just level 60s, not just level 50s, but players of all levels from 10 to 60 attacking the cross roads, knowing the Xroads was a loss cause and running for my life in the distance I saw THE HORDE and not just players but THE HORDE, a whole raid coming in defense of the cross roads, all levels, all races, all classes.
It was a brutal war,as I watched from the hills and the sidelines, AOE was every where, bodies every where, the alliance being pushed back from the X-roads to astrannar, thats when the most epic war occured, lasting for hours on end, Astrannar vs Splintertree Post, pushing the alliance back to astrannar, thinking we won, a raid was coming behind us, as my hunter was picking off the level 10s and 12s to the sideline, we soon became fully surrounded by all sides, even though we lost at the end, even though we all died, even though we were all surrounded we did not go down with out a fight, we did not give up, we shown that day the power of the horde on that server was feirce.
LOL, just saying but, you should see a relic raid in DAoC, now that shiz is intense, and it lasts ALL DAY, plus, you got a third realm that can just come in a royally eff you in the A, litterally thats what we call it, AJ (ass jamb) haha, im sure WoW has its moments, i hit lvl 18 and quit, not my play type, but seriously, check out DAoC RvR, intense stuffs right there
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I played EQ from beta to August 2011. I had 12 years of epic moments.
Raiding fear on dial up with 70 people in the raid not knowning wth is going on and just trying to stay alive.
Raiding The Hole and wiping so deep you and your friends spend a week just to get your corpse back people think that would suck and when it happen it did, but looking back that was some of the best times people had in EQ grouping with friends and guild members to help each other out with stuff like that.
Raiding Karnors and training the zone in and wiping the groupers because they were always to stupid to not fight at the zone in.
I have epic moments from every expansion in HOT we raided for 18 hours one day just to try and be the 1st guild to beat the expansion.
Good memories...............
See, people would consider all those thing as unacceptable in modern day MMORPG, but in fact those wacky design features were what made those games so addictive and fun.
They were built towards the community, and things like corpse runs, which might looks something really tedious, was quite fun when you did it with some guild mates or even good samaritans you met along the way.
There were always lots of drama and many laughs, something I miss from modern "plastic" MMORPGs
EQ1 is my favourite game of all time, but got to admit, the weekly battles my guild participated in at XR was immense. Never experienced anything like it. My brother joined WoW in TBC when XR was no longer being raided and regrets never playing earlier to experience the greatness of the original WoW.
Not a fan boy by any means, in fact I'm quite the opposite, but the XR raids leave me with very happy memories.
Yeah, it's kind of sad that Blizzard spent 8 years taking the WORLD and the WAR out of World of Warcraft.
They say they plan on bringing back both the world and the war in MoP, but after Cata I just don't have much faith in Blizz anymore.
Yeah, I know how you feel. Right now I'm waiting on other games. Blizzard finally came up with some ideas for World PvP, such as making two new Horde and Alliance cities that were designed with high level world PvP in mind (probably just weaker guard influence on the PvP) and possibly conquest points for doing some world PvP, but it feels like they should have tried those things so long ago.
Most people actually like Wow, but they tend to dramatise their hate to fit in with the current crowd, or because they cant think of anything else to post.
A lot of people dislike WoW, but tolerate it because most everything else is just a clone of WoW.
WoW, in my opinion, seriously watered-down what is considered "epic"
Epic used to be a word that had real meaning. Now "epic" is just another word for purple.
An "epic" quest in EQ could last for days because it actually lived up to its name. It involved traveling to all corners of the not-tiny-mountain-fenced-in world and often times involved gaining trust of an entire city just so their guards dont chop your head off on sight.
Of course you had more epic moments in WoW. WoW downgraded the meaning of the word.
I agree, but days? Maybe the Rogue Epic. Weeks, Months .. That's more accurate for most. And yes, they were be definition Epic Quests. It made it that much more rewarding when you were carrying around the Duck Skull or whatever, depending on your class.
Because of my extensive time in early EQ, I will always appreciate items more when they were difficult or time consuming to obtain. I will never mind grinding mobs for the sake of grinding mobs. In fact, I find it relaxing.
The two epic quests in Rift are a pleasant turn back in that direction. They aren't nearly as "Epic", but it's a start. It's something.
Also thanks to whoever posted the Fansy reference. I had forgotten about him and his sand giant kiting skills.
And I miss Sullon Zek. Short lived, but great PvP fun. Plus starting fresh at that point of the game was fun. Getting excited when looting fire beetle eyes or anything that sold for more than most trash to the vendor. Fishing and baking, when that was still profitable. Being one of the first in chain.. Dangit, I can't remember the name for it now.. 1p per ac (on normal servers) iirc. Banded! that was it. Banded armor.
Anyway, thanks thread, for the trip down memory lane.
I played EQ from beta to August 2011. I had 12 years of epic moments.
Raiding fear on dial up with 70 people in the raid not knowning wth is going on and just trying to stay alive.
Raiding The Hole and wiping so deep you and your friends spend a week just to get your corpse back people think that would suck and when it happen it did, but looking back that was some of the best times people had in EQ grouping with friends and guild members to help each other out with stuff like that.
Raiding Karnors and training the zone in and wiping the groupers because they were always to stupid to not fight at the zone in.
I have epic moments from every expansion in HOT we raided for 18 hours one day just to try and be the 1st guild to beat the expansion.
Good memories...............
See, people would consider all those thing as unacceptable in modern day MMORPG, but in fact those wacky design features were what made those games so addictive and fun.
They were built towards the community, and things like corpse runs, which might looks something really tedious, was quite fun when you did it with some guild mates or even good samaritans you met along the way.
There were always lots of drama and many laughs, something I miss from modern "plastic" MMORPGs
Absolutely agree. Oh I have so many stories that I won't bore you all with. Corpse runs (and the fear of actually losing your corpse and gear forever, nevermind not getting a rez after 24 hours or w/e) were frustrating, exciting, and most often dangerous.
Thank you for the emphasis on the community. That's a huge difference today. Back then, it was all us "gamers". Most of us had been gaming since they were all text. Jerks were rare. Nice people, helpful people, very common. Soloers were the vast minority (not to say it wasn't fun to do sometimes! Mainly on a Necro or Druid, or pre-40ish with a Fungi Tunic for melee). "Casuals" didn't really exist.
Of course many lost their jobs, spouses, everything important. The new addiction of online gaming was intense. I myself had to cold-turkey EQ at one point, and get my priorities in order. I did this on my own. Now, no game ever grabs me like that. I can enjoy myself immensely, but I can always walk away without a second thought. I'm thankful for that.
Things were a lot different back then. I miss the silent code of ethics we all held.
But, it's a different time, new generation(s). Looking back is fun, but we have to move forward with the times or stop altogether. I choose to move forward and make the best of what we have.
Now that even the old MMOs have been dumbed down, there truly *isn't* any "going home".
Ah well. Feeling my age now. Again, thanks for the thread.
OP was like 12 or something when UO/EQ launched, not surprising he found WOW a better game when he was 20 or so.
Actually, I had a lot of fun at the WOW launch, and those epic open world battles were great...until they killed them off with the introduction of the BG's.
The game could have gone such a different direction and kept my interest for years, unfortunately once BC came around it was obviously going in a direction I didn't enjoy.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There's a reason why WOW is the standard for MMOs and UO and EQ are just footnotes.
Because most gamers are easily fooled by heavily pre-scripted game mechanics that are designed for players to ultimately win in the end.
Completing a raid that countless tens if not hundreds of thousands of player have finished is not epic, despite how many times NPCs parrot it, and no matter how much purple text is thrown at you in loot windows.
There's a reason why WOW is the standard for MMOs and UO and EQ are just footnotes.
Because most gamers are easily fooled by heavily pre-scripted game mechanics that are designed for players to ultimately win in the end.
Completing a raid that countless tens if not hundreds of thousands of player have finished is not epic, despite how many times NPCs parrot it, and no matter how much purple text is thrown at you in loot windows.
Epic is a feeling, a subjective emotion tied to the enjoyment of an experience and the trill of it etc.
Who are you to define what others believe is epic or not?
There's a reason why WOW is the standard for MMOs and UO and EQ are just footnotes.
Because most gamers are easily fooled by heavily pre-scripted game mechanics that are designed for players to ultimately win in the end.
Completing a raid that countless tens if not hundreds of thousands of player have finished is not epic, despite how many times NPCs parrot it, and no matter how much purple text is thrown at you in loot windows.
I think you miss the point....
How many players have beaten xyz encounter hae no bearing on it being epic or not. It only impacts epeen.... EQ raiding never felt epic... neither did DAoC.... WoW's earlier moments were.
There's a reason why WOW is the standard for MMOs and UO and EQ are just footnotes.
Because most gamers are easily fooled by heavily pre-scripted game mechanics that are designed for players to ultimately win in the end.
Completing a raid that countless tens if not hundreds of thousands of player have finished is not epic, despite how many times NPCs parrot it, and no matter how much purple text is thrown at you in loot windows.
Good timing, good marketing, luck, and a pre-existing IP that already had a following, a poor economy thats made trying something new even riskier than before.
Also Vanilla WoW (as well as the Blizzard that created it) was very different than it is today.
Comments
You are talking about Vanilla WoW some 6 years ago.
Since then WoW and the whole MMORPG industry went down the drain.
But I take this chances to explain to people what was the difference between the pre-WoW MMORPG and the post-WoW MMORPG, and your example is crucial.
What you describe is the last hint of a sandbox feature (unintentional of course) you could taste in WoW and any other copycat releaed after it.
Players making their own content like attacking a post (Crossroads) even if that didn't mean anything...............but it was fun, because it was a player created event.
MMORPGs should have more of that and less of the linear microwaved ready-content we have in current MMORPGs.
Before WoW you had plenty of those moments.............now what you have are just GAMES, not MMORPGs, because there is none of that Epic moments.
Are you being serious? UO is the GRANDFATHER of the game you call WoW. Have some respect.
WoW and Epic? Dunno maybe when u log in the first time and go to orgrimmar or stormwind everything else isnt that special if you played mmorpgs pre wow.
I don't think people understand what world objectives in MMORPG PvP combat are for. While they are an RPG element they have a greater importance. Those things are meant to rally members of all factions into an area so there is a place to fight over. WoW World PvP doesn't have that, so the players make their own. The Alliance held onto the Crossroads to deny the Horde access to the NPCs, but the true objective that the Alliance had was to stir up the nearby beehive, Orgrimmar, without having all the bees come out at once.
Most people actually like Wow, but they tend to dramatise their hate to fit in with the current crowd, or because they cant think of anything else to post.
I played EQ from beta to August 2011. I had 12 years of epic moments.
Raiding fear on dial up with 70 people in the raid not knowning wth is going on and just trying to stay alive.
Raiding The Hole and wiping so deep you and your friends spend a week just to get your corpse back people think that would suck and when it happen it did, but looking back that was some of the best times people had in EQ grouping with friends and guild members to help each other out with stuff like that.
Raiding Karnors and training the zone in and wiping the groupers because they were always to stupid to not fight at the zone in.
I have epic moments from every expansion in HOT we raided for 18 hours one day just to try and be the 1st guild to beat the expansion.
I played WoW for three years.. and been part of quite a few Crossroads raids. I was never once stopped from using NPC's. I guess I'm a liittle confused here.
Link?
Then this must be true too. Most people don't like WoW, but it's currently played by all of their friends and family, so they haven't left yet. They really dislike WoW, and even though they play it, they spend their time here complaining about it.
See, we can both say random generalized things without any sort of proof behind it. Fun, no?
Must have not played UO after Trammel/Felucca split with the Factions PvP system in place.
I did have some really cool moments in WoW that I'd consider epic, and some really cool moments in UO that I'd consider epic.
But can you really weigh them and decide which was more epic objectively?
No, you can't say the UO moment was 23.58% more epic.
Haha, I remember that joker.
Flowers of Happiness, agoo... Never had many run-ins with them. Our enemies were The Begotten and Hidden Power and Sinister and DDH and The Regulators off and on.
On my lower level it was my mage vs. Alec from Darkenbane back when Darkenbane mattered.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
EQ1 is my favourite game of all time, but got to admit, the weekly battles my guild participated in at XR was immense. Never experienced anything like it. My brother joined WoW in TBC when XR was no longer being raided and regrets never playing earlier to experience the greatness of the original WoW.
Not a fan boy by any means, in fact I'm quite the opposite, but the XR raids leave me with very happy memories.
Playing: Nothing
Played: EQ1, EQ2, VG:SoH, WoW, AoC, LoTRO, Aion, L2, DF, WAR.
Favourites: EQ1, VG:SoH, Original WoW.
Waiting: Pantheon: ROTF
Yeah, it's kind of sad that Blizzard spent 8 years taking the WORLD and the WAR out of World of Warcraft.
They say they plan on bringing back both the world and the war in MoP, but after Cata I just don't have much faith in Blizz anymore.
LOL, just saying but, you should see a relic raid in DAoC, now that shiz is intense, and it lasts ALL DAY, plus, you got a third realm that can just come in a royally eff you in the A, litterally thats what we call it, AJ (ass jamb) haha, im sure WoW has its moments, i hit lvl 18 and quit, not my play type, but seriously, check out DAoC RvR, intense stuffs right there
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Good memories...............
See, people would consider all those thing as unacceptable in modern day MMORPG, but in fact those wacky design features were what made those games so addictive and fun.
They were built towards the community, and things like corpse runs, which might looks something really tedious, was quite fun when you did it with some guild mates or even good samaritans you met along the way.
There were always lots of drama and many laughs, something I miss from modern "plastic" MMORPGs
Yeah, I know how you feel. Right now I'm waiting on other games. Blizzard finally came up with some ideas for World PvP, such as making two new Horde and Alliance cities that were designed with high level world PvP in mind (probably just weaker guard influence on the PvP) and possibly conquest points for doing some world PvP, but it feels like they should have tried those things so long ago.
A lot of people dislike WoW, but tolerate it because most everything else is just a clone of WoW.
I agree, but days? Maybe the Rogue Epic. Weeks, Months .. That's more accurate for most. And yes, they were be definition Epic Quests. It made it that much more rewarding when you were carrying around the Duck Skull or whatever, depending on your class.
Because of my extensive time in early EQ, I will always appreciate items more when they were difficult or time consuming to obtain. I will never mind grinding mobs for the sake of grinding mobs. In fact, I find it relaxing.
The two epic quests in Rift are a pleasant turn back in that direction. They aren't nearly as "Epic", but it's a start. It's something.
Also thanks to whoever posted the Fansy reference. I had forgotten about him and his sand giant kiting skills.
And I miss Sullon Zek. Short lived, but great PvP fun. Plus starting fresh at that point of the game was fun. Getting excited when looting fire beetle eyes or anything that sold for more than most trash to the vendor. Fishing and baking, when that was still profitable. Being one of the first in chain.. Dangit, I can't remember the name for it now.. 1p per ac (on normal servers) iirc. Banded! that was it. Banded armor.
Anyway, thanks thread, for the trip down memory lane.
The Priest of Discord loves the GOOD GUYS!!!
Absolutely agree. Oh I have so many stories that I won't bore you all with. Corpse runs (and the fear of actually losing your corpse and gear forever, nevermind not getting a rez after 24 hours or w/e) were frustrating, exciting, and most often dangerous.
Thank you for the emphasis on the community. That's a huge difference today. Back then, it was all us "gamers". Most of us had been gaming since they were all text. Jerks were rare. Nice people, helpful people, very common. Soloers were the vast minority (not to say it wasn't fun to do sometimes! Mainly on a Necro or Druid, or pre-40ish with a Fungi Tunic for melee). "Casuals" didn't really exist.
Of course many lost their jobs, spouses, everything important. The new addiction of online gaming was intense. I myself had to cold-turkey EQ at one point, and get my priorities in order. I did this on my own. Now, no game ever grabs me like that. I can enjoy myself immensely, but I can always walk away without a second thought. I'm thankful for that.
Things were a lot different back then. I miss the silent code of ethics we all held.
But, it's a different time, new generation(s). Looking back is fun, but we have to move forward with the times or stop altogether. I choose to move forward and make the best of what we have.
Now that even the old MMOs have been dumbed down, there truly *isn't* any "going home".
Ah well. Feeling my age now. Again, thanks for the thread.
OP was like 12 or something when UO/EQ launched, not surprising he found WOW a better game when he was 20 or so.
Actually, I had a lot of fun at the WOW launch, and those epic open world battles were great...until they killed them off with the introduction of the BG's.
The game could have gone such a different direction and kept my interest for years, unfortunately once BC came around it was obviously going in a direction I didn't enjoy.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Because most gamers are easily fooled by heavily pre-scripted game mechanics that are designed for players to ultimately win in the end.
Completing a raid that countless tens if not hundreds of thousands of player have finished is not epic, despite how many times NPCs parrot it, and no matter how much purple text is thrown at you in loot windows.
Epic is a feeling, a subjective emotion tied to the enjoyment of an experience and the trill of it etc.
Who are you to define what others believe is epic or not?
Ummm EQ and SWG gave me way better moments than WOW did....
I think you miss the point....
How many players have beaten xyz encounter hae no bearing on it being epic or not. It only impacts epeen.... EQ raiding never felt epic... neither did DAoC.... WoW's earlier moments were.
Good timing, good marketing, luck, and a pre-existing IP that already had a following, a poor economy thats made trying something new even riskier than before.
Also Vanilla WoW (as well as the Blizzard that created it) was very different than it is today.