I have seen that video 3 times now and not ones did I get the feeling there was a tank or healer you can see when the engineer drops the turret and then everyone stands near it but the person playing you can also see heals going off in the fight with the boss on a piller and there on a ledge and he roles off a few times having to use his own heal. You seem to not understand how this works any class can do the 3 roles there is no tank and or healer roles there is no dps types ethier you are ethier in the fight fighting or your supporting the group or your controling which is controling the mobs kinda like tanking but not debuffs stuns traps that kind of thing. If the thief wants to take over being upclose he can even take control for a bit so I the Guardian can step back to heal a little then and support him and the ranger can be supporting also and doing damage. Then the Ele can come in and drop Wall of Fire and we can attack through it using the fire as an extra damage to our own attacks. ITs a total group effort instead of person A Tank goes in agros then in a few seconds taunts then everyone runs in and starts attacking and the healer sits back and reads hot bar info. This everyone just plays and watches it all and help any way they can doing all the above.
P.S. Yeah what the guy above me said dame you did it better then me
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Umm... no there is no obvious trinity or healers with added dps.
It is clear you have never read the GW2 website explaining the classes.
No I've read the marketting from the GW2 website. Just the thing is, that what it says on the website doesn't exactly match what I see in gameplay videos.
I see one guy casting out a healing turret that is keeping pretty much everyone alive. I see one dude with a sword standing in front of monsters and hitting them, when I look at the health bars, I only generally see 1 health bar ever changing when all 5 are alive, sometimes a second health bar is changing as well.
So there is no designated healer? No designated tank? Thats not what it looks like to me.
If you dont believe the devs and you dont believe what we say, then why even pose the question on a forurm. You kno better then the people who created it. and better the the countless other videos ive seen. and even in this video.
yes someone has to get hit, taking damage doesnt not equal :"Tanking"
in the case of this video your only watching one person, Fony who is indeed using his self heal. you have to take in account collision detection, most of the stair cases and tight corridors they were fighting in the mob cant walk through whoever is in front.
If healing others is as ineffective as claimed by some posters why do it at all? By what mechanism do NPC's select targets? You're welcome to give a specific example of NPC and support spells.
wtf?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
To the OP. You've obviously not seen enough recent vids, or haven't even got into the CBT, but no, you are wrong. There is no trinity in this game.
There is no taunt in the game, so there is no Tank in the first place. The mobs in GW2 switch targets all the time, especially the bosses or elites. They don't just stand and spank one player the whole fight. The whole Tanking aspect is also useless in GW2, because if you tank and spank, you will literally die in few seconds.
Obviously you have no f**king idea how important dodging is in this game, because even the beefiest classes will literally melt if they tank and spank in this game.
As for the heal, I think many people have already pointed out the fact about support classes having minor heals, but you simply reject to see otherwise. Seems more like a problem of yourself, OP, being in denial more so than actually watching more vids to understand that support heals are insignificant to the amount of health you get back from the personal heal skill.
Have you played the game? Yeah, thought so. You haven't and you have no clue how the whole lack of trinity works in this game.
I personally thought it wasn't possible. But it works in this game, because if you don't dodge, you are dead. Dodge is an extremely crucial aspect of combat in this game, more so than what I had imagined.
Why don't you first try tanking in this game on your own? Then you will know you can't tank in this game, period. After that, try playing healer in this game. You will pull aggro and die, or you will let your whole party die while trying to dodge damage and not actually healing your party. Hence, no actual healer exists in this game, and the best heal in this game is that heal on your hotbar.
Don't get me wrong. The game isn't perfect. I don't like every aspect of it. But you just sound like another hater disguised as some BS liar.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
If healing others is as ineffective as claimed by some posters why do it at all?
By what mechanism do NPC's select targets?
You're welcome to give a specific example of NPC and support spells.
are the healing skills useless, no. they have there uses. but you cannont keep a party up by your self. you cannot effectively be a "Healer" and if you try to only be a dedicated healer you will serverly gimp your team
Umm... no there is no obvious trinity or healers with added dps.
It is clear you have never read the GW2 website explaining the classes.
No I've read the marketting from the GW2 website. Just the thing is, that what it says on the website doesn't exactly match what I see in gameplay videos.
I see one guy casting out a healing turret that is keeping pretty much everyone alive. I see one dude with a sword standing in front of monsters and hitting them, when I look at the health bars, I only generally see 1 health bar ever changing when all 5 are alive, sometimes a second health bar is changing as well.
So there is no designated healer? No designated tank? Thats not what it looks like to me.
Exactly, there is no designated healer? No designated tank?
I'm not sure what you mean by, "thats not what it looks like to me"?
You may want to watch more videos, because everybody heals, everybody fights, each with thier own skills and talents. None of which are soley dedicated to healing or tanking.
But, your welcome to try it when the game is released, I doubt it will go well, in fact Im sure your group will get wiped time after time. But who knows, maybe you can pull it off?
If healing others is as ineffective as claimed by some posters why do it at all?
By what mechanism do NPC's select targets?
You're welcome to give a specific example of NPC and support spells.
Healing isn't ineffective. It's just not spammable direct (or even AoE) healing like in other MMOs. It's meant to counteract AoE damage and provide a buffer for self healing and "aggro" swapping. A single AoE heal may only heal for 100hp a tick while you and other party members have at least 4khp for example. That doesn't mean the heal is pointless.
NPCs have different ways they select targets based on their AI. Ranged based MOBs will select targets differently than melee, though there seems to be more to it than that. For pretty much all the AI types the biggest factor is proximity to the NPC so you can easily swap aggro by moving into melee range while the previous "tank" moves out. This doesn't mean you are safe, and some AI seem to target low health players, so you need to be careful about how you use skills and dodge.
A vast majority of skills in Guild Wars 2 could be categorized as support skills. I'll name a few in Guardian. Keep in mind there are more than this available in Guardian and every profession has tons of support skills not just Guardian:
All Symbol skills, for example:
"Symbol of Wrath" - Symbol. Pierce the ground with a mystic symbol that damages and burns foes while granting retaliation (4s) to allies.
Don't understand where this no trinity business is coming from. In all the videos I've seen, there has been 1 or 2 people dropping down heals, that heal other party, and 1 or 2 guys taking 85% of the damage and agro. Hows that not a trinity? You still have people designated healing, and people designated tanking. Am I missing something here?
Well, sure you can try to be the "designated tank or healer" but you sure as hell won`t be nearly effective enough to heal someone on your own, or keep aggro, or even survive. I´ve seen a lot of beta vids where people tried to fill those roles, but failed. People who tried to tank died like nothing and people who tried to heal weren`t able to keep someone alive on their own. So silmple as that no trinity.
Yeah I lolled when I first saw that vid, especially that part.
Lalala sure I´m the mighty guardian, I´ll tank... crash and burn within 5 seconds, now somebody say, oh his dedicated healer didn`t pay attention... please.
Yeah I lolled when I first saw that vid, especially that part.
Lalala sure I´m the mighty guardian, I´ll tank... crash and burn within 5 seconds, now somebody say, oh his dedicated healer didn`t pay attention... please.
Yeah I lolled when I first saw that vid, especially that part.
Lalala sure I´m the mighty guardian, I´ll tank... crash and burn within 5 seconds, now somebody say, oh his dedicated healer didn`t pay attention... please.
You know the player was like WTF how did I die I am a tank. But like even the devs said people will try to play it like all other mmo's and be smashed in seconds trying to play that way. I think they are on the right path cause I hate the Trinity I want to play a game where I can be what ever and still do dungeons with my 5 man gaming group and not be hows gonna be the healer in this one cause I know I will be a tank. I like warriors can't help it but end up tanking more then I should.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
No I've read the marketting from the GW2 website. Just the thing is, that what it says on the website doesn't exactly match what I see in gameplay videos.
I see one guy casting out a healing turret that is keeping pretty much everyone alive. I see one dude with a sword standing in front of monsters and hitting them, when I look at the health bars, I only generally see 1 health bar ever changing when all 5 are alive, sometimes a second health bar is changing as well.
So there is no designated healer? No designated tank? Thats not what it looks like to me.
You must have not watched very much. Within the first five minute all the players health drop to nearly half. This drop slows down in between fights (obviously) but during fights, nearly everyone takes damage. Will there be parts where only one player takes damage? Yes, of course, getting rid of a solid trinity doesn't mean EVERYONE has to take damage and EVERYONE has to heal. It means, if you stick one guy on tanking... he will die. There is plenty of proof in that very video you pasted. The tank dies VERY easily when he doesn't share the damage with the rest of teh team.
Also, dropping a healing turret does not make you healer. Are you new to MMO's? ONE healing skill doesn't equate to being a dedicated healer.
The way the game's system is set up is that you can only have (depending on class) about three skills that even heal. How many dedicated healers run around with three healing skills?
I know you're trying really hard to discredit the game's sytem, but here are some facts...
Watch the video again, you can see that the healing turret heals two or three people about 25% health. This is not speculation, the numbers are all there for you to do the math. This whole process equates to healing 5-10% of the entire team's health. A single characters healing skill (depending on class and said skill) will heal 50-75% of the users health. That is nearly double what the turret can do. With that said, I think it is safe to say, the turret is additional healing, not priority healing.
Here is another thing... Take the elementalist who has plenty of healing ability. Of all their skills they can posess at one time, only half will be healing. The other half is damage/conditions/boons/ and you name it. Also note, there is no mana or global cooldown. Now then, who is a better player, the one who uses half his bar to heal, or the one who uses half his bar to heal and half his bar to dish damage? This is true for all the other classes as well, meaning, every class comes with a permanent ability to do damage. That damage part is absolutely free and does not cost mana or cooldown time. Therefore, it must mean, eveyrone IS DOING DAMAGE. That alone gets rid of a dedicated DPS class, which in turn gets rid of the trinity.
You may have a soft trinity, you may have a half trinity, but you won't have the traditional solid holy trinity.
Another troll thread dropped by someone who can't let go of the Trinity. I don't think ANet intended to remove "a" Trinity, but instead the one most people are familiar with and reliant on, the one that is viable but doesn't fit the dynamic nature of GW2. There's no "HOLY" Trinity, ie: the one people are enamored with after WoW clones. People need to give up this line of thinking, as well as "The game is going to suck because GW1 sucked", "The game is Asian", and "The DE's are just like the timed events in Rift."
I also noticed the ranger was doing a bit of tanking too...haha
ROFLOL, i can see it now..
5man grous go in a dungeon. Party says, Warrior/Guardian go in and build aggro, while we then dps''... All starts to attack mob, few second after, mob starts wailing on the thief, thied cries out... Taunt him off me already, guardian/warrior says i have no taunt skill, mob goes beserk wipes the group.. Group member claims this system is sillly, others in group agree. Group disbands, with some quitting the game or start to flame on GW2 forums on why they feel the system is broken, other join in and then you start hearing this game sucks...
Well I want to see you in front of a boss and screaming '' HEAL ME, HEAL ME " and the guy behing you saying '' I can't heal you noob, dodge'' LMAO
LOL, funny thing, i also see it in Tera. Warrior stay there just wailing on the boss, doin no dodge or moving about, then when the group wipes he claims the healer is a nooob..
Comments
I have seen that video 3 times now and not ones did I get the feeling there was a tank or healer you can see when the engineer drops the turret and then everyone stands near it but the person playing you can also see heals going off in the fight with the boss on a piller and there on a ledge and he roles off a few times having to use his own heal. You seem to not understand how this works any class can do the 3 roles there is no tank and or healer roles there is no dps types ethier you are ethier in the fight fighting or your supporting the group or your controling which is controling the mobs kinda like tanking but not debuffs stuns traps that kind of thing. If the thief wants to take over being upclose he can even take control for a bit so I the Guardian can step back to heal a little then and support him and the ranger can be supporting also and doing damage. Then the Ele can come in and drop Wall of Fire and we can attack through it using the fire as an extra damage to our own attacks. ITs a total group effort instead of person A Tank goes in agros then in a few seconds taunts then everyone runs in and starts attacking and the healer sits back and reads hot bar info. This everyone just plays and watches it all and help any way they can doing all the above.
P.S. Yeah what the guy above me said dame you did it better then me
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
If healing others is as ineffective as claimed by some posters why do it at all?
By what mechanism do NPC's select targets?
You're welcome to give a specific example of NPC and support spells.
If you dont believe the devs and you dont believe what we say, then why even pose the question on a forurm. You kno better then the people who created it. and better the the countless other videos ive seen. and even in this video.
yes someone has to get hit, taking damage doesnt not equal :"Tanking"
in the case of this video your only watching one person, Fony who is indeed using his self heal. you have to take in account collision detection, most of the stair cases and tight corridors they were fighting in the mob cant walk through whoever is in front.
wtf?I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
To the OP. You've obviously not seen enough recent vids, or haven't even got into the CBT, but no, you are wrong. There is no trinity in this game.
There is no taunt in the game, so there is no Tank in the first place. The mobs in GW2 switch targets all the time, especially the bosses or elites. They don't just stand and spank one player the whole fight. The whole Tanking aspect is also useless in GW2, because if you tank and spank, you will literally die in few seconds.
Obviously you have no f**king idea how important dodging is in this game, because even the beefiest classes will literally melt if they tank and spank in this game.
As for the heal, I think many people have already pointed out the fact about support classes having minor heals, but you simply reject to see otherwise. Seems more like a problem of yourself, OP, being in denial more so than actually watching more vids to understand that support heals are insignificant to the amount of health you get back from the personal heal skill.
Have you played the game? Yeah, thought so. You haven't and you have no clue how the whole lack of trinity works in this game.
I personally thought it wasn't possible. But it works in this game, because if you don't dodge, you are dead. Dodge is an extremely crucial aspect of combat in this game, more so than what I had imagined.
Why don't you first try tanking in this game on your own? Then you will know you can't tank in this game, period. After that, try playing healer in this game. You will pull aggro and die, or you will let your whole party die while trying to dodge damage and not actually healing your party. Hence, no actual healer exists in this game, and the best heal in this game is that heal on your hotbar.
Don't get me wrong. The game isn't perfect. I don't like every aspect of it. But you just sound like another hater disguised as some BS liar.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
are the healing skills useless, no. they have there uses. but you cannont keep a party up by your self. you cannot effectively be a "Healer" and if you try to only be a dedicated healer you will serverly gimp your team
Exactly, there is no designated healer? No designated tank?
I'm not sure what you mean by, "thats not what it looks like to me"?
You may want to watch more videos, because everybody heals, everybody fights, each with thier own skills and talents. None of which are soley dedicated to healing or tanking.
But, your welcome to try it when the game is released, I doubt it will go well, in fact Im sure your group will get wiped time after time. But who knows, maybe you can pull it off?
As long as the trinnity is in peoples heads, its in the game...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Healing isn't ineffective. It's just not spammable direct (or even AoE) healing like in other MMOs. It's meant to counteract AoE damage and provide a buffer for self healing and "aggro" swapping. A single AoE heal may only heal for 100hp a tick while you and other party members have at least 4khp for example. That doesn't mean the heal is pointless.
NPCs have different ways they select targets based on their AI. Ranged based MOBs will select targets differently than melee, though there seems to be more to it than that. For pretty much all the AI types the biggest factor is proximity to the NPC so you can easily swap aggro by moving into melee range while the previous "tank" moves out. This doesn't mean you are safe, and some AI seem to target low health players, so you need to be careful about how you use skills and dodge.
A vast majority of skills in Guild Wars 2 could be categorized as support skills. I'll name a few in Guardian. Keep in mind there are more than this available in Guardian and every profession has tons of support skills not just Guardian:
All Symbol skills, for example:
"Symbol of Wrath" - Symbol. Pierce the ground with a mystic symbol that damages and burns foes while granting retaliation (4s) to allies.
Every shout, for example:
"Hold the Line" - Grant protection and regeneration to allies.
Guardians also have lots of condition removal effects:
"Purge Conditions" - Purge up to 5 conditions from nearby allies and burn nearby foes.
"Martyr" - Draw conditions from nearby allies to yourself. Gain fury, might, protection, regeneration, swiftness, and vigor.
They can also block incoming projectiles including ones aimed at allies with abilities like (there are at least 3 of more of these):
"Sanctuary" - Form a protective shelter that prevents foes and projectiles from entering.
Some examples of Control skills:
"Ring of Warding" - Create a Ring that enemies cannot cross. Trapped enemies cannot exit the ring while it's active.
"Banish" - Launch foes with a powerful smash. (Throws the enemy a huge distance away and knocks them down)
"Signet of Wrath" - Passive: Grants you increased condition damage. Active: Immobilize your target.
Keep in mind that the regeneration boon cannot be stacked in effectiveness, only in duration.
The whole point in the game is damage avoidance. If you rely on healing, you have already lost.
Well, sure you can try to be the "designated tank or healer" but you sure as hell won`t be nearly effective enough to heal someone on your own, or keep aggro, or even survive. I´ve seen a lot of beta vids where people tried to fill those roles, but failed. People who tried to tank died like nothing and people who tried to heal weren`t able to keep someone alive on their own. So silmple as that no trinity.
Here is someone trying to "tank" in GW2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWe2PPOjwo&feature=player_detailpage#t=258s
Yeah I lolled when I first saw that vid, especially that part.
Lalala sure I´m the mighty guardian, I´ll tank... crash and burn within 5 seconds, now somebody say, oh his dedicated healer didn`t pay attention... please.
Very Soft Trinity
~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~
where were the heals like wtf :P
You know the player was like WTF how did I die I am a tank. But like even the devs said people will try to play it like all other mmo's and be smashed in seconds trying to play that way. I think they are on the right path cause I hate the Trinity I want to play a game where I can be what ever and still do dungeons with my 5 man gaming group and not be hows gonna be the healer in this one cause I know I will be a tank. I like warriors can't help it but end up tanking more then I should.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
The trinity syestem does NOT ecist in this game.
trinity means one class filling one of three roles
since anyone can fill any roll on the fly its no longer trinity
You must have not watched very much. Within the first five minute all the players health drop to nearly half. This drop slows down in between fights (obviously) but during fights, nearly everyone takes damage. Will there be parts where only one player takes damage? Yes, of course, getting rid of a solid trinity doesn't mean EVERYONE has to take damage and EVERYONE has to heal. It means, if you stick one guy on tanking... he will die. There is plenty of proof in that very video you pasted. The tank dies VERY easily when he doesn't share the damage with the rest of teh team.
Also, dropping a healing turret does not make you healer. Are you new to MMO's? ONE healing skill doesn't equate to being a dedicated healer.
The way the game's system is set up is that you can only have (depending on class) about three skills that even heal. How many dedicated healers run around with three healing skills?
I know you're trying really hard to discredit the game's sytem, but here are some facts...
Watch the video again, you can see that the healing turret heals two or three people about 25% health. This is not speculation, the numbers are all there for you to do the math. This whole process equates to healing 5-10% of the entire team's health. A single characters healing skill (depending on class and said skill) will heal 50-75% of the users health. That is nearly double what the turret can do. With that said, I think it is safe to say, the turret is additional healing, not priority healing.
Here is another thing... Take the elementalist who has plenty of healing ability. Of all their skills they can posess at one time, only half will be healing. The other half is damage/conditions/boons/ and you name it. Also note, there is no mana or global cooldown. Now then, who is a better player, the one who uses half his bar to heal, or the one who uses half his bar to heal and half his bar to dish damage? This is true for all the other classes as well, meaning, every class comes with a permanent ability to do damage. That damage part is absolutely free and does not cost mana or cooldown time. Therefore, it must mean, eveyrone IS DOING DAMAGE. That alone gets rid of a dedicated DPS class, which in turn gets rid of the trinity.
You may have a soft trinity, you may have a half trinity, but you won't have the traditional solid holy trinity.
Thanks for sharing that!
I also noticed the ranger was doing a bit of tanking too...haha
elementalist earth here i come , will outank u all ! /roar ! :P
Thks for posting this, it really made my day.
Tears of noobs at 17:51
Another troll thread dropped by someone who can't let go of the Trinity. I don't think ANet intended to remove "a" Trinity, but instead the one most people are familiar with and reliant on, the one that is viable but doesn't fit the dynamic nature of GW2. There's no "HOLY" Trinity, ie: the one people are enamored with after WoW clones. People need to give up this line of thinking, as well as "The game is going to suck because GW1 sucked", "The game is Asian", and "The DE's are just like the timed events in Rift."
It's embarrassing.
ROFLOL, i can see it now..
5man grous go in a dungeon. Party says, Warrior/Guardian go in and build aggro, while we then dps''... All starts to attack mob, few second after, mob starts wailing on the thief, thied cries out... Taunt him off me already, guardian/warrior says i have no taunt skill, mob goes beserk wipes the group.. Group member claims this system is sillly, others in group agree. Group disbands, with some quitting the game or start to flame on GW2 forums on why they feel the system is broken, other join in and then you start hearing this game sucks...
Well I want to see you in front of a boss and screaming '' HEAL ME, HEAL ME " and the guy behing you saying '' I can't heal you noob, dodge'' LMAO
LOL, funny thing, i also see it in Tera. Warrior stay there just wailing on the boss, doin no dodge or moving about, then when the group wipes he claims the healer is a nooob..
Some person just can't or won't try changes..