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My biggest problem with this game ...
My biggest problem with this game and I knew it before it even released but playing it certainly brought it home is that I can make a character that feels closer to a Jedi in playstyle in the superhero games than I can in SWTOR.
Now obviously SWTOR has the look and the light saber, but as far as effects and what not; City of Heroes, Champions Online and DC Universe all do a playstyle that feels like what a jedi can do far better than SWTOR. Lunge around, be very mobile and truly fast. Fling people and things around, dodge like a maniac, slice slice up.
And CoH specifically does it all as a traditional tab targeted game.
If I could make a coh character with Katana and the Storm or Gravity control power set they would feel 10 times more jedi like than the jedi of this game. Swap out electric control for gravity control to make a Sith. You want a sith assassin take the stealth power pool. A bane spider villain epic archetype with just a few animation changes be a way better sith assasin than what exists in swotor, just turn gun attack into lightning and mace to light saber.
I mean as a Sith Juggernaut you can force choke someone once every 45 seconds. You can force jump once every 20 sec. I can make a Scrapper in CoH that puts that to so much shame it ridiculous. I can make a melee based Controller that will make that look pathetic and even have animations that would be very similar to Jedi/Sith animation except I would have to use my fists mostly.
Comments
agreed my big gripe with the game is as well combat among other things, but to me it just does not feel like star wars at all feels like very vanilla themepark combat dumb way down to make it super simple for everyone yet very boring imho
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Its actually 15 seconds on Force charge and 15 seconds on Obliterate. You probably don't need any more warp-to attacks than that.
I will agree that the jugg(haven't played a knight) feels a bit sluggish and the damage too low for a lightsaber user. I don't like that Ravage is a slow channeled attack. Neither class really has the animation I want for their main lightsaber attack.
I'd rather they consolidated some attacks just to make the individual lightsaber attacks hit harder. Also a talent tree that reduces overall defense while increasing melee damage. I'd rather play a classic jedi class in medium armor that does more damage than playing a marauder/sentinel.
If COH is all you're making it out to be I might have to try it. Now of course since you've said that my expecations are going to be higher...
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I so agree. The SWTOR combat is alas so damn traditional Everquest-ish. In case of Jedi and Sith it sticks out the most. In these games like CO, DCU or even age old CoH make that better and more actiony.
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I actually like the traditional style of combat in TOR and other such MMOs, but I do see the appeal of more action oriented stuff.
Games like Planetside 2 and Firefall appeal to me, but so does the more standard stuff. I usually am posing one game like TOR and one more action/shooter based game at the same time. Best of both worlds for me.
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Unfortunately...its a standard mmorpg with all the old classes getting reapplied to the IP.
Your not a jedi/sith, your either a tank or a dps warrior with rage building/spending..oh theres the dual saber weilding beserker..they are just diffrent names for the same old classes broken up between diffrent types of jedi/sith
Gun toting classes are done right though...no CC or magic but lots of boom.
My biggest problem with this game right now is the RNG abuse found in pvp loot and reverse engineering. Feckin hate it. Makes me avoid both parts of the game until they fix it.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
One time on the fleet, and I know this is the fault of this moron, but I just have to say it.
He said he could do one of the hardmodes, since he was a "rogue" and the group needed a rogue. I wanted to complain to myself, but then i realized, the Sith and Jedi aren't Sith and Jedi. They are simply pigeon-holed into the same cookie cutter templates of most MMO's.
Then when we were doing heroics leveling, I was a Sith Sorc, and someone said "great, we needed a mage in the group."
Its not that I think the classes are badly made, but that I can't do what I feel a Jedi/Sith should do.
Force speed is kind of atrocious compared to what Anakin and and Obi Wan do in the beginning of #2 in the first part of the movie when they infiltrate that driod ship and just kick in the afterburners. It just feels really weak and clunky.
I actually didn't find Juggernaut or Sith Assassin to be bad classes. In fact you can make a pretty damageing Jugg with the Rage tree.
But the skill design of the classes is pure visual fluff. The backing mechanics and the way the gameplay feels is not very Jedi/Sith like at all.
In KOTOR I could build a Jedi that deflected blaster bolts like a champ even to the extent of actually killing things that shot at him. In SWTOR you can even hurt people with deflections and the best you can hope for is like 60% deflection every 2 minutes for like 10 seconds.
If Jedi actually worked this way they would be complete effing morons to use a melee weapon.
There are a number of MMOs with avoidance tanking. And a number of them have even adjusted for problems such as burstyness with avoidance. Case in point: CoH Super Rflexes corrects for burstyness by also giving you scaling resistances as you take damage so that you don't get two shotted by some crazy random number generator thing.
But SWTOR didn't even have the balls to implement true avoidance tanking. Avoidance exists yes, but you can't get that high. Both Jedi tanks are very much about armor with a modest layering of two kinds of avoidance.
The Sith Assassin does not tank particulary different than the Bounty Hunter, they will both have similar armor. Wierdly the Juggernaut has more avoidance than the assassin and the Sin has more shields.
That's fine it balances out ok. But its nothing like a Jedi/Sith. Nor do you even need a real actiony game like DC Online where you can actually dodge stuff. Tab target stuff works fine. KOTOR was d20 system and it worked ok.
But this MMORPG version of the well it just doesn't fit. At all. I liked the classes just fine comapred to a WoW or LOTRO class. But when I compare to another Star Wars game it kind of disgusts me.
Compared to Jedi Academy or even Lego Star Wars its ... its like its an imposter
Sadly this is sort of more accurate than the way SWTOR terms things.
When I was playing many people who just started did not realize that the Sith Inquisitor specializations are completely different as soon as you specialize.
Your resouces changes completely. SI -> SA keep Rogue-like energy. SI->SS immediately gets a vastly larger force pool and works much different.
SS immediately changes whirlwind from a crappy stun-like affect to a major in combat CC (ie. mage-like CC). SA get a from stealth mez. (ie. sap from WoW rogue). These two CC differences are very important for grouping of course. There is some difference. Having an offtank that can stealth and mez is cool and nice and I appreciated playing it.
Now all this would be OK. We had classes in KOTOR. I am not even a fan of class based system but I tolerated it and I could make something that felt fairly Jedi-like. Except that its taken to such an extreme and to such an tired MMO standard of almost silly concessions for the sake of "balance" that all flavor was lost.
Would have been better if it was like this I agree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UN3Rpgx8AU&feature=related
But hey we can dream cant we
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGwEuBkBBso&feature=related
ROFL I read Company Of Heros does it better and I quit. COH was a lazy boring game just like everything NCSoft ever does. COH was as grindy as any.
ROFL ROFL ROFL
I assume that Company of Heroes thing was a mix up, as that is an isometric Real Time Tactical game made by Relic Entertainment.
But anyway, I don't claim as of those three games are overall better than SWTOR, which in some ways makes it worse, I claim that all thre major super hero games allow you to make a character whose execution in combat feels and plays much more authentic and fun for a Jedi/Sith.
CoH is grindy and the reason people tolerate that grind is because the combat and socialization is more fun than a game like SWTOR.
On my Dual Blades/Willpower Scrapper I grinded out the last two levels to level 50 by "grinding out" XP on the top of the Cimmerorian Wall where ther wer very large spawns of a rather hard villain type. I wasn't actually doing this to grind though. I just wanted to see if I could do it because it was hard. But with combat jumping plus hurdle I could jump 30 feet in the air and cover a god 40 feet forward IN COMBAT whenever I wanted. I had a melee Cone power I could use very roughly 8 seconds that knocked things on their ass. I had a singel target knock up to use every 5 seconds on the bosses who could hit really HARD. I had alot of tools. By moving well and lining up cones and using all my abilities right I could get some pretty cool results. It took skill, it took being alert, and it was a challenge. That made it fun.
I hit level 50 without even realizing it. Doing the same thing in SWTOR is a) not really possible and b) would probably be pretty boring very quickly. With my Sith assassin once i got the healer companion I started soloing two man heroics just for the heck of it. It was fun at first as it was novel. But it quickly got boring. Mez the elite kill the strongs, kill elite. Throw in a few proc effects like lightning with heal. Stand there and beat on them. Wash rinse repeat. Even the classes with cover really have little ability to actually do much with it and gets worse later in the game.
Now these situations are a bit different as I was fighting spawns of like 16 mobs in CoH which consisted of 1-2 bosses, miltuple leutenants and a large amount of minions. Whereas SWTOR is STRICTLY balanced and you will NEVER EVER be allowed to do such a thing.
CoH is not "balanced". People can argue about that as they please, I don't care. The fact of the matter is you can make a very powerful character in CoH using Inventions and not Incarnate powers. You can solo instances "balanced" for 8 people. But this also lets you seek out these extreme situations and actually find a challenge.
In these games like SWTOR there is almost never a challenge they are blandly predicatable. There are a few exceptions and they almost always involve massive use of kiting. Whereas in CoH there are 20 different ways people used to accomplish the Rikti Warzone challenge and for many people it was truly a challenge where one player could execute the same build litteraly 3 times more effectively than a mediocre player.
Edit:
Also you have no idea what you are talking when it comes to NCSoft. Aion was not lazy and boring whether you liked it or not. Guild Wars 1 is not lazy and boring whether you liked it or not.
In point of fact NCSoft has funded/made some the the most innovative games in the MMO industry. And those games innovated in vastly different ways. Guild Wars had one the few quite unique RPG system to come out in a long long time (irregardless of MMO or not even consideriing single player). Auto Assault actually used real physics stuff. Tabula Rasa's Control points were a great experiement dynamic content before Warhammer ever even came close to release public quests.
Sure many of their efforts have failed in one way or another but so what? The statement itself is kind of stupid since NCSoft is a publisher. Even development houses now owned by NCSoft started off independent. Guild Wars was made by Anet before they were owned by NCSoft.
Its made even more stupid by the fact that while NCSoft has actually taken a chance on a number of games and failed they have also had a number of smashing successes that no one can really argue with.
Hmm...I really couldn't agree with that. In fact, that would just make the balance between the classes rather absurd. The population demographic already favors jedi for obvious reason but if it went the way you are stating for jedi/sith...well...why would anyone even both with the other classes at all? I sure as heck wouldn't.
It just sounds like something out of a comic (which of course ironically it kinda is) while Star Wars was built more off the movies, books, etc. They did fling everyone around like rag dolls. If it was that easy so many would never have been loss to Order 66 and to the arena in second prequel, etc. They weren't gods (well maybe Luke in the EU practically but that's a different story *laughs*).
Just think this would be way too much. I like how the combat is now. The pace is fast, especially for a sentinel/marauder and none lack mobility except for a counsular/sorceror to some extent. They shouldn't walk into a room of 16 and take them down. Would it be a fun challenge like you experienced? Yes, definitely. But would be outside of what they are honestly capable of? Yes.
I suspect this is the reasoning that went on when the dev were sitting around trying to come up with how the game would work.
And you know what? Its self defeating reasoning, IMO. A game that is no longer fun isn't a game anymore. They needed to find a way to make both these things work. These decision to reduce fun so that things are predicable are awful. Just awful.
Keep in mind though that DC Universe is not vastly un-balanced like CoH but you can still make a character that will feel far more jedi-like.
I only mentioned balance to communicate the imperfectness of the comparison.
My biggest problem with this game ...
is the unfair removal of social points from Baron while the Sovereign remain unchanged
my wife and i were wandering around hoth last night and i said to her, you know, it's strange. here we are in a star wars universe and we're running everywhere on foot and engaging in basic sword fights that feel exactly like wow.
i think they really needed a little more focus on this one.
the best thing, for me, about star wars movies, was the kind of gritty gunslinger quirkiness. and that's very missing here.
as for the jedi powers. meh. i feel more like a wizard than a jedi. my inquisitor never uses a sword and the lightning's beginning to level out in damage so i feel i spend much more time healing.
i hate healing.
this says it's a dps tree.
what the hell is a sith gonna heal people for?
If you were into star wars for the gritty gunslinger parts why roll a sith? I mean I agree with you to a point (though I say sith warriors feel much more like a wow warrior then an inqusitor to a wizard) I would also suggest specing madness its tons more fun then the lightning tree. Funny side note, the skill to remove the cooldown from force lighting is in the madness tree and not the lightning tree.
But if you wanted to play a gunslinger why not roll one of the cover based classes. I've played through most of the imperial story lines none of them come close to how good the agents was.
As far as I always knew CoH stood for CITY of Heroes, not COMPANY of Heroes. Company is a totally different game.
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Atleast he got the publisher right, granted they didn't actually make the game but its something I suppose.
Well I agree with this. Its irksome and just flat out about as dumb as can be when you are stuck running around a PLANET SIZED CITY on foot at the rate of a jog.
But in the end I expected it and I frankly just don't think they are creative enough to come up with something that makes more sense (even though no one in the movies is really without a very fast moving vehicle of some sort).
If I had felt more like a jedi I would have forgiven this more. And yes Sith sorceror is not even a Jedi they are simply a Lightning mage, why they even have a light saber is beyond me. They even get their main stat changed so that the only melee light saber attack they have does not scale in anyway. Its sad.