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Mass Effect 3 DLC Day One Apologist
baritone3k
Member Posts: 223
I will start by saying that Bioware is not effectively communicating why it is okay for them to charge more for Mass Effect 3. But I will address that a few inches down.
Facts:
1. Bioware is completely within their rights to ask people to pay whatever they choose for their game (Mass Effect 3). There is no debate there. It is their game. Any contract(s) with distributors or console manufacturers aside, Bioware can put whatever price tag they want on their games.
2. TotalBiscuit and the like-minded are completely within their rights to ask Bioware to charge less for their game. There is no debate there. It is the consumer's money.
3. There is DLC content available day 1 that is playable by people who have pay $80 for the N7 Collector's Edition or who spend $10 on the specific DLC package. That means the content is complete as of launch (regardless of whether it is on the disk).
4. The DLC includes fluff as well as a character viewed by many as integral to the full experience (from a lore perspective).
The REAL debate:
Is a complete Bioware game worth more than $60 (the normal price for a AAA title)?
Bioware is pussy-footing around just saying, "Listen, Mass Effect 3 is better than the other games you have paid $60 for in the past. You bought SWTOR for $60 (some of you the statue edition for $150) and paid another $15 for 30 more days. Many of you paid $60 (or $50 for PC until recently) for FIFA, Madden... let's leave EA titles. You also paid $60 for Darksiders, Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Soul Calibur V.... We have created a fantastic game that leaves them in the dust and allows you a better experience. In order to fully experience our game with the lore party member, you cannot have that for $60. You need to pay at minimum $70. If you want a book too, pay $80."
The argument from Bioware/EA's side may cause nerdrage panic and righteous indignation, but they could make the argument that the person getting the great deal is actually the person who saves $10 on their game and only gives up the lore group mate and the other fluff. That is the real argument to be made.
Let's use the PSP Vita's AT&T data plans as a comparison for price increase for more service/product. To get the 250MB of 3g service for a PSP Vita, AT&T charges $14.99. To get 3GB (12 times as much) is $10 or about a 40% (or 67% depending on how you look at it) difference. That person on the 250MB plan is objectively getting torn open for going with the cheaper option.
Bioware should make the case that this game is better than the competion and therefore is worth $70, but they are making am almost-as-good version available for the traditional $60 pricepoint for those who have a budget and/or do not want the full game.
The debate as it currently exists:
TotalBiscuit's Video
Quotation from Bioware
http://www.gamespot.com/news/bioware-defends-day-one-mass-effect-3-dlc-6350925
TLDR:
Bioware should make the case that this game is better than the competion and therefore is worth $70, but they are making am almost-as-good version available for the traditional $60 pricepoint for those who have a budget and/or do not want the full game. Game prices are NOT fixed. Just because company X charged $60 for their full game doesn't mean each other company has to follow that.
But to pretend that important DLC like this being available day 1 is not a money grab is a tough pill to swallow for the market.
Someone please make a good MMO.
Comments
To say your game is better than most is one thing but for your game to actually be better is what matters. From what I experienced myself playing the demo that simply isn't the case here. I'm not saying ME3 is a bad game by any means but it's not the genre defining title they would lead you to believe either... It's a good game... thats it. Skyrim is a genre defining title and it only cost me $60 on release day. Bethesda also made their first DLC a free download(for PC only). No, I'm sorry but no matter how you try to spin this one it all boils down to pure greed on EA/Bioware's part. You are absolutely correct about one thing though... they can charge whatever they want for their game. I on the other hand can opt to spend my money elsewhere and get my money's worth out of every gaming dollar spent without getting ripped off.
Bren
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Not really.
The $50 price point was almost set in stone for prior generations and stayed there for PC for a long time. Recently (meaning for years) the pricepoint for consoles went up to $60 and more recently PC titles have been sharing that $60 pricepoint.
Who says that $60 is the amount a game should cost? It is what it crept up to.
Shit - Phantasy Star for the Sega Master System was $70 or $80. They said it was due to the cost of the battery in it. That was back in 1988!
NEO-GEO games were $200!
Listen, people buy some SHITTY games for $50/$60. There are some games that are worth more. ME3 could be argued to be one of them.
Now, I am not an EA fan by any means. Skyrim was only $60 and it will be a hard argument to say ME3 is worth more than that, but it's a pretty safe argument to say it is worth more than Star Wars: The Force Unleashed and SWTOR.
Fuck, people on this board have paid $1,000s of dollars to play a particular MMO. I am one of them. $70 just doesn't seem that bad to me in 2012.
For realz tho, I do not think ME3 is worth more than Skyrim.
The point of my post is that there is a different debate to be had here if BW/EA would address it directly.
Someone please make a good MMO.
In my eyes the problem is that the marketing machine of any game will claim that theirs is "teh best evah" regardles of how good the actual product is, the aim is to convince more people to buy their product and the higher the price the better, these people get paid a fortune to do so.
The only evidence i have to support or doubt their claim are the previous mass effect titles and my own opinion of them, then compare them to other games released by the same company and by others. Sadly, whilst i have found the mass effect series to be very good games I cannot justify paying more for them on the basis that most other games in recent years are crap, there is a lot of better games out there. I pay the standard price for a full game in the hope that it will justify the price, which is starting to get expensive, and do not want to pay the standard price for crap games but pay a premium for those that 'may' be decent. A premium for something fantastic and ground breaking? Perhaps i would, but not for something that will likely end up being just another good game that does nothing other than complete a storyline.
OP sorry but your clearly a fan who nomatter what will defend whatever bioware do with there games.
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You may have missed my TLDR - I underlined the part about them being full of shit in their justification for it.
TLDR:
Bioware should make the case that this game is better than the competion and therefore is worth $70, but they are making an almost-as-good version available for the traditional $60 pricepoint for those who have a budget and/or do not want the full game. Game prices are NOT fixed. Just because company X charged $60 for their full game doesn't mean each other company has to follow that.
But to pretend that important DLC like this being available day 1 is not a money grab is a tough pill to swallow for the market.
Whether or not we as the gamer believes them is another point but to say it was not int eh game because it was developed after the disc was send to be made and shipped is a bad argument.
The fact of the matter is, I am torn whether to push back with TB and the others and boycot or just saying that since I have paid more for other games in the past, if I want it in all its glory, then I will buy it and pay the $10 extra for the DLC. Not sure how much it matters to me on either side.
Offtopic -
BTW - Phantasy Star back in 1988 was worth every penny. And the battery still worked over a decade later. I even bought it and played it again on the gameboy when it came back out.
NEO-GEO was not something I could have even stretched to afford, and I was spending those years learning instead of gaming. But I do have a friend who did buy it. Price is flexible.
Someone please make a good MMO.
Me? i won't even waste time pirating that trainwreck, it looks even worse tha DA2, now with more consolitis & Gears of war multiplayer for the dudebro crowd.
ME2 didn't even had an inventory, i don't get how people still somehouw believe that Mass Effect is an RPG series."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
I don't see how Bioware could make the case that their game is worth more.
ME2 .. I'd say the majority of fans would claim it to be worse than ME1.
DA2, hands down worse than DA1 and a blatantly lazy attempt to make a quick buck.
SWTOR... Its in the process of crashing and burning, as soon as competition releases in summer and fall it'll be "Dead" ala WAR
Warhammer Wrath of Heroes ... beating a dead horse.
Wheres the evidence that Bioware can produce a quality game anymore? Especially to label it as deserving a higher price tag, i dont see it. Hell, I don't even see how they can charge $60 for PC games, they dont have to cover any liscensing costs and the majority of it being Digital Download they dont even have a distributor cost. EA is just being rediculous and greedy.
They're pulling a page right out off Kotick's / Activision's book with MW2 and such. They raised the prices because they know they got a bunch of people by the balls. They WANT the game, and so Activision did what they did, knowing people will b*tch and moan, but they still will buy the game.
I never thought much about the ME series, but I know EA / BioWare will rake in cash with ME3, and they will do anything and everything to do so. Remember guys, this is EA we're talking about, and this isn't the BioWare of Baldur's Gate 2 timeframe.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Thanks EA guys. I've already given Kingdoms of Amalur a miss due to being forced to use Origin even if I buy a box copy of the game (same reason I skipped Skyrim and Serious Sam 3, only with Steam).
I think I actually approve of companies doing things like this. The more reason they give me to not buy their games, the more I'm finding I'm not missing playing them and have more free time and more money in the kitty for more worthwhile hobbies.
Such as this:
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
For the longest time i had always supported what Bioware has done. That changed with SWTOR, DA2 was a warning for me and because of that i did not pre-order SWTOR and did not get a collectors edition (have gotten one for every Bioware game since they started making them).
I quit SWTOR a couple of days ago, in fact i have not played it in over a month (paid for 2 extra months with time cards).
Bioware has lost me as a customer, i doubt i will be missed, but the sad fact is if Bioware can say ME3 at $80.00 sold just as well as ME2 at $60.00, well i wonder what you all will think will happen to future EA titles, and then the domino effect with other publishing companies.
The fact that the DLC has a very important aspect of the entire trilogy in it, makes this a cash grab and nothing else. Bioware could have included something else less integral to the story and still asked for that price for colectors and other DLC.
Anyhow, i hope someone realizes the slippery slope that this will lead to.
I just think ME3 should not be purchased, pirating any game is just bad for the industry and bad for us as players because of all the DRM we have all had to suffer through because of it.
Lolipops !
Voiidiin, gaming is not being led to the slippery slope. It's already fallen off the ledge and snowballing down the mountain, hitting every tree on the way down.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
for the msot part games in the past 10 years have gotten progressivly crappier. Its a plain fact games these days just are not made with the care and attention to detail as they once were. Games these days do not suck you into the story or tell the story like they used to do. I think the major budgest in games these days goes more into flashy graphics and not in the story telling and if you ask me is the story is lacking no amount of flash will make up for the lack.
Nowa days I am not much inclined to spend more than $40 on a brand new game no mater what....as a matter of fact I spent about $40 for ME1 and ME2 combined. Heck I might even be willing to pay that much for ME3 but no way will I spend $80 to get the complete game. I'll wait 4-6 months and get it on steam after its marked down half price or more.
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You know you're entitled to your opinion but to claim that games are crappier as fact is just such bullshit. I won't claim it as fact but for myself, every year has been progressively getting better and better in terms of gaming. I play about 2-4 titles a month and I can always find a gem in some genre, on some platform every month.
Not every title needs to be industry shaking revolution but most are good games. Despite all this DLC non sense I'll be buying ME3 as I liked ME1 and I freaken loved ME2.
Disagree. More likely that the majority of fans think ME2 is equal to or better than ME2. It's just that ME wins points for introducing the ME universe to people.I have to agree with the above. Majority of the people I know thought it was just as good or better. IMO the gameplay was far far superior to ME1 but the story wasn't as good. However, character development was still a definite strength of the series. I'm actually about to fire it up to finish my playthough on renegade Shephard >:D
See my point of view has recently become the fact that even 60$ is expensive for a game. i'm not paying that, that is far to expensive. if i do decide to play it, that will be when the price drops. But wait now steam is making games drop their prices slower. Skyrims price has still yet to drop after 3 months of release. the gaming industry is getting greedy, i keep hearing about how Xbox wants to start putting CD keys on their next consoles games to force all games to be new purchase. if they go that far, im done with gaming. and i probubly wont be alone.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
The price drops really depend on how well the game is performing. I see really awesome games drop 10 or 20 dollars rather rapidly, because they were never popular to the mainstream audience. Skyrim on the other hand is extremely popular and it's going to stay strong at 60$ for half a year at minimum.
if i was a fan of the ME series i would pay $60 for mass effect standard edition - full game (not the "almost as good" version the OP mentioned. Since i dont like ME series i wont buy it.
It may be a good game but just because the developers believe it is a masterpiece for them, it doesnt mean it is a masterpiece for the consumer. They can charge whatever they want for their games, it depends on how smart the consumer is to pay a fair price or get their pockets ripped off for being a fan of the series.
Like others have said. Skyrim is the the godsend of open world RPG right now. Anything with RPG (or RPG elements) on its description should be at least the same price.... (at least. definitely not higher because aint worth it)
Like with a lot of things, market will sort itself out by itself. Look at MW3, there isn't that much content to it and certainly not much different compared to previous incarnations of the franchise, yet 10+ million people bought it, bc they enjoy the games in that series. As for ME3, from what I understand it has a MP component, which when it comes to its story and gaming fun in that series is better than a lot of other games. Not every game needs to be a Skyrim or GTA 4 to everyone for people to enjoy and buy those games. Market will show by itself whether people consider what they get enough for them to buy a game, or not.
? Skyrim has already been on sale 2 times on Steam.
First one was during the christmas sale, the other one was a couple of weeks ago when they added the Steam workshop.
"But wait now steam is making games drop their prices slower."
Are you serious?"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Hence the rampant piracy on such games...
On other side the actual good games ( Witcher 2 for example , or Torchlight ) from companies that actually care by consumer,
Are solf for 42$ or 20$ respectively. Without any DRM and still manage to sell millions - even without the ridicilous press campains that cost almost as the whole game.
Dont even get me started on Humble Bundle games, where you get up to 10 awesome games - for anything you want to pay for them. Last time they made over 20 million dollars.
We're soon probably going to see the day bastards like these will try to sell games for $80 USD for a regular edition that has cut out content.
Nickle and Diming the consumer. And you guys support this sh*t? Making excuses for them trying to fleece gamers? Please...
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Well I am ok with their reasoning as long as it goes both ways. In other words, they should charge $30 from here on for TOR since it's so much worse than the competition.
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Since games (especially digital versions) virtually has no inherent cost it doesn't matter what they sell them for (within reason) as long as there is a big enough consumer base.
So any "this game is worth at least 70 dollars" is really BS If you sell 1 million at 70 dollars or 10 million at 40 dollars guess what gives more profit.