But everyone claiming it's for an even contest are ignoring a few things. Pug vs. premades, fully decked out vs. fresh noobs, bracketing, fake stats (resilience, expertise) and all the other nonsense that goes so on.
The only games that get instanced PvP "right" are the ones that bolster everyone to the same level and give everyone the same sets of gear for their class. But people don't want a fair competition. They want to win.
The end of my rant.
I think Guild Wars had that reasonably well covered. As max tier gear was easy to acquire it's mainly player skill and teamwork and strategy that decided the outcome.
Honestly I don´t understand why people don´t like equal teams PvP. My best PvP experiences thus far were GW random 4 vs 4 and WoW 20-29 bracket CTF. With equal teams a match could last over an hour but it was fun. No real rewards, just for the sake of the challenge and excitement. Even with twinks and such the teams could still be evenly matched.
I really don´t understand that so many people don´t prefer or even like this kind of PvP. Ganking newbs or slaughtering small majorities is very boring imo. Looking for hours for someone to fight with - and then finding your fight that´s over in 5 minutes, I think that´s just a waste of my time. Perhaps if your really don´t have anything better to do but in my opinion it´s just a poor and not very exciting way to spend your time.
Or maybe we do have "better" things to do and we choose to do World PvP anyways. Troll.
I think Guild Wars had that reasonably well covered. As max tier gear was easy to acquire it's mainly player skill and teamwork and strategy that decided the outcome.
Honestly I don´t understand why people don´t like equal teams PvP. My best PvP experiences thus far were GW random 4 vs 4 and WoW 20-29 bracket CTF. With equal teams a match could last over an hour but it was fun. No real rewards, just for the sake of the challenge and excitement. Even with twinks and such the teams could still be evenly matched.
I really don´t understand that so many people don´t prefer or even like this kind of PvP. Ganking newbs or slaughtering small majorities is very boring imo. Looking for hours for someone to fight with - and then finding your fight that´s over in 5 minutes, I think that´s just a waste of my time. Perhaps if your really don´t have anything better to do but in my opinion it´s just a poor and not very exciting way to spend your time.
Or maybe we do have "better" things to do and we choose to do World PvP anyways. Troll.
How on earth can you call "troll" on that?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
2 thing that's interesting is many games can't handle mass pvp. due to all the lag etc.
and another thing is in games with world pvp. the world pvp arn't rewarded as well as instanced pvp. warhammer and fallen earth come to mind. You get more contribution and exp for killing people in instanced pvp to prevent kill trade etc.
I think many people do enjoy world pvp more. It's just that dev need to design it better.
I think Guild Wars had that reasonably well covered. As max tier gear was easy to acquire it's mainly player skill and teamwork and strategy that decided the outcome.
Honestly I don´t understand why people don´t like equal teams PvP. My best PvP experiences thus far were GW random 4 vs 4 and WoW 20-29 bracket CTF. With equal teams a match could last over an hour but it was fun. No real rewards, just for the sake of the challenge and excitement. Even with twinks and such the teams could still be evenly matched.
I really don´t understand that so many people don´t prefer or even like this kind of PvP. Ganking newbs or slaughtering small majorities is very boring imo. Looking for hours for someone to fight with - and then finding your fight that´s over in 5 minutes, I think that´s just a waste of my time. Perhaps if your really don´t have anything better to do but in my opinion it´s just a poor and not very exciting way to spend your time.
Or maybe we do have "better" things to do and we choose to do World PvP anyways. Troll.
How on earth can you call "troll" on that?
He said that people who spend a lot of time on games do so because they can't do "better" things.
You speak like premades against PUGs is a exclusive problem to instanced PvP but I can tell you as a fan of instanced PvP that PvP is at its best with premades against each other. I genuinely love the competition, challenge, dramatic close fights, the chance to improve myself and master something new. I love PvP for PvP's sake, I really do!
World PvP falls short on the "PvP" too many times and becomes a cat 'n' mouse game of who ganks who first and with how many levels and how many friends. Preying on PvE players is not even proper PvP. You can't call it PvP when the other guy is not even putting up a fight. Vast majority of times the fights are all too short and all too predictable. Very anti-climactic. Combat becomes a formality. I have no interest in that.
World PvP is all too problematic and inherently bad because while players can make it fun they can also ruin it - and they most certainly will. Even if I look for faults of instanced PvP, it is probably worse in world PvP.
Instanced PvP makes me smile and world PvP makes me yawn.
Sometimes when premades are matched up against each other, one team leaves. Sometimes not. But it happens. And how often are they matched up? I dunno. It depends entirely on the game and the type of matchmaking they employ (if any).
There are very many solid concepts for self-correcting world PvP. 3 factions is a common solution thrown around. Or a bolster system or other mechanics (siege weaponry maybe) for the faction severly outnumbered to at the very least give them a fighting chance. I'm not a fan of population caps in zones, but it does work, however it is at the expense of players not being able to play whenever they want to. I'm no expert, but I'm sure there are check and balances that the experts can come up with if they want to.
But world PvP is not for everyone, just like how instance PvP is not for everyone. There is no perfect system, but there are always ways to improve things and make them more enjoyable.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Sometimes when premades are matched up against each other, one team leaves. Sometimes not. But it happens. And how often are they matched up? I dunno. It depends entirely on the game and the type of matchmaking they employ (if any).
There are very many solid concepts for self-correcting world PvP. 3 factions is a common solution thrown around. Or a bolster system or other mechanics (siege weaponry maybe) for the faction severly outnumbered to at the very least give them a fighting chance. I'm not a fan of population caps in zones, but it does work, however it is at the expense of players not being able to play whenever they want to. I'm no expert, but I'm sure there are check and balances that the experts can come up with if they want to.
But world PvP is not for everyone, just like how instance PvP is not for everyone. There is no perfect system, but there are always ways to improve things and make them more enjoyable.
Very true.
I think any self-respecting game should have both. To attract casual players there should be some PvP system that's easy to get into and doesn't require hours of searching, team composition or preparation.
Having 3 factions is a very good system, I don't understand why some games don't have it since DAOC proved that it works pretty well. I read Star Wars: The Old Republic now has a "mercenary" system where the players can fight for either faction, a smart move imo, for both arena style PvP as world PvP as it reduces arena queue times and balances out world PvP. Also, the closer you get to faction main cities the more fortresses with NPCs, defense mechanisms (burning tar, siege weapons) and the like. A smart game designer should know how to balance it.
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Or maybe we do have "better" things to do and we choose to do World PvP anyways. Troll.
How on earth can you call "troll" on that?
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
2 thing that's interesting is many games can't handle mass pvp. due to all the lag etc.
and another thing is in games with world pvp. the world pvp arn't rewarded as well as instanced pvp. warhammer and fallen earth come to mind. You get more contribution and exp for killing people in instanced pvp to prevent kill trade etc.
I think many people do enjoy world pvp more. It's just that dev need to design it better.
He said that people who spend a lot of time on games do so because they can't do "better" things.
Sometimes when premades are matched up against each other, one team leaves. Sometimes not. But it happens. And how often are they matched up? I dunno. It depends entirely on the game and the type of matchmaking they employ (if any).
There are very many solid concepts for self-correcting world PvP. 3 factions is a common solution thrown around. Or a bolster system or other mechanics (siege weaponry maybe) for the faction severly outnumbered to at the very least give them a fighting chance. I'm not a fan of population caps in zones, but it does work, however it is at the expense of players not being able to play whenever they want to. I'm no expert, but I'm sure there are check and balances that the experts can come up with if they want to.
But world PvP is not for everyone, just like how instance PvP is not for everyone. There is no perfect system, but there are always ways to improve things and make them more enjoyable.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Very true.
I think any self-respecting game should have both. To attract casual players there should be some PvP system that's easy to get into and doesn't require hours of searching, team composition or preparation.
Having 3 factions is a very good system, I don't understand why some games don't have it since DAOC proved that it works pretty well. I read Star Wars: The Old Republic now has a "mercenary" system where the players can fight for either faction, a smart move imo, for both arena style PvP as world PvP as it reduces arena queue times and balances out world PvP. Also, the closer you get to faction main cities the more fortresses with NPCs, defense mechanisms (burning tar, siege weapons) and the like. A smart game designer should know how to balance it.
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