How do you feel about SWTOR's class design? (Poll)

Creslin321

I'm interested to see how people feel the class design in SWTOR stacks up with its peers (themepark MMOs).  By class design, I mean just about everything associated with classes in a typical themepark.  Like...

Abilities, customization options (talent trees), group dynamic, theme, ability animations, etc.

But I'm not talking about things like combat responsiveness or story here.  Just stuff directly associated with class design.

Please answer the poll and feel free to leave a comment explaining your answer.  By "average" I just mean the average AAA themepark MMORPG.  You can use WoW as a reference point.  I'm going to post my comment in a bit, but I want to leave the OP neutral to avoid influencing folks.

oubers

voted average, it isnt better or worse then any of the other mmo's around imho.

the fact that they are mirrored doesnt realy bother me.....altough i would do it different.....but mirrored = easy balance

The skills and all are pretty nice (gfx and animation wise i mean) imo

 

 

astoria

I said average because they are so much like so many other MMOs. They allow hybrid roles better than some but the mechanics are a similar across all classes, except for the cover mechanic,  which is cool if not my style as I don't like stationary combat.

 

Zyllos

I feel the class design is average as they tried to mirror the classes, which I think is a negative for a MMO aspect.

While I know that the average player wants balance as if you have one side that can play a stronger class, players will grow frustrated, having mirrors of each side causes the uniqueness of the game to disappear.

Instead, what developers try to do is give the illusion of difference between mirror classes while keeping the fundamental mechanics the same in the background. I have always hated this but this is the direction the market is going.

DeaconX

"Average", like most of the game.  Not without it's highlights of course, but overall, I find it the vanilla flavored white bread of medicore.

Alders

Worse than average. 

I think i'm just tired of the 3 boring trees concept. Had BW combined all jedi classes and let us pick which tree we want to use for certain things, i think i would have had more fun. Also actually making use of light/dark choices to affect our skill selection would have been so much more interesting as well.

Creslin321

I voted worse than average.

I just felt that most of the classes in SWTOR felt..."generic."  Both the play experience and the "theme" between them just didn't feel all the different.

Compare this with WoW where the player is required to master multiple animal forms as a feral druid and shift between this forms in the middle of combat.  Or the player could be a rogue that plays like a ninja with all sorts of dirty tricks like vanish.  Or a shaman that lays down totems to aid him in battle.  Or a warrior that charges into battle fueled by rage.

DAoC also had great classes like that aborist that laid down shroom turrets or the bonedancer who could summon an entire party of pets!  AoC had some good ones too, like the Herald of Xotli who was basically a melee rage with a huge 2H sword that had an ability to literally rip out their enemy's heart and eat it.

All of these classes felt different in both playstyle and theme.  But I just don't see this in SWTOR.  I played a bunch of different classes and they all just felt pretty similar, and when they are different, they feel exactly like a class in WoW that I'm already familiar with (Jedi Guardian...warrior).  Also, companions make it so EVERY class is a pet class, so they feel even more similar.

I also don't like the whole "advanced class" idea because the two advanced class choices off any base class ALWAYS share a lot of abilities.  So instead of having 8 classes, it feels more like 6.

 

arieste

much worse.  not only are you pigeonholed into one advanced class, but further pigeonholed into one tree on that class.  it's absolutely atrocious.  Just look at Rift's robust and fun class system - and it's also 100% themepark.  Games like AoC and EQ2 are more "average" but still a lot deeper than TOR.  

bobfish

The setting makes the classes feel more exciting than they are. But at the end of the day, like every major MMO since AoC, they are boring.

 

You can dress them up as much as you like, but they all use boring mechanics seen before, or in the case of cover, boring mechanics that the world designers got tired of accomodating after the first world.

 

For reference, I really like Rift's soul system, but underneath it, the mechanics are identical to all other MMOs, there isn't a new idea there. Give me something like AoC or Vanguard, where each class stands out on its own and has interesting mechanics or skill combinations.

teoyaomiqui

I voted avarage. I just don't see anything bad about it, nothing invative or new.

Btw, what games would people rate other classes above avarage or much better than avarage?

RavingRabbid

I voted better than average (just barely) because of the skill selection trees. I dont like the weapon restrictions based to class and that classes are too similar to thier other faction counterparts.

***Darth Rabbid kills Gerada the Hutt over his attempt to ban the plunger esp after the Huttball rules say that weapons, name calling and cheating are okay!***

noncley

Worse than average for the following reasons:

 

- Class binds you to story and some stories are worse than others (frankly, I'd like to have done the SW story as a SI or the IA story as a Mercenary).

- I wish you had been able to change and customise your companion's class when you got them.

 

Kuinn

Better than average for the sole reason the classes having only one main stat in this game, so it gives a lot more freedom to actually pick talents between different builds without gimping your class like the problem many classes in WoW for example has (Druid, Shaman, Paladin off the top of my head). Something that a lot of people do not realize like seen in this topic.

 

It would have been nice if the OP asked people to state which classes and to what level they played, to get perspective if their views has any weight at all. Though, it would require people to be honest, I often see comments about various games on mmorpg.com boards that sounds like the person never even started the game for the first time.

 

Sniper lvl46 - A lot of abilites to use, defensive and offensive. You can easily see the skill of a player to count with this AC. The bad ones do only high damage, while the good ones can prevent a wipe and poke off pests in emergency situations. I find this class to be a lot more fun than in any other themeparks for a pure ranged dps, it feels like I have more stuff to do in combat and it's fun to do combos like stun + roll to max distance cover, aoe shield buddies in bad spot, and not to mention cluster charges + pew pew *screen shakes*

 

Juggernaut lvl37 - A truckload of abilites to use, mastering the class really has an impact on how the rest of the day looks like. This class feels quite closely to "WoW like" class comparing to warrior, but things like force push and choke really spices things up and little details like force charge being a jump perfectly viable to jump into bridges and high places without the "no path available" message. Also a big bonus is having unique attack animation for every move compared to the WoW "big hit, normal hit, special hit" 3-animation style. Traditional but spiced up.

 

Sorcerer lvl25 - Was a bit of an dissapointment to me, feels like there's only 3 offensive abilites to use at this level for the most part, mostly spamming 2. It could get better at later, but the heal spells are eating ability space and I feel like this class is and will be a two button wonder, DPS wise. Sorcerer felt like the most traditional or "WoW like" class to me since I got used in WoW to spam 2-3 buttons in order to gain maximum profit outside PvP. Very traditional and a tad boring.

ProfRed

Horribly unbalanced, but that made a few of the classes an absolute blast to play. 

77lolmac77

worse than average

I dont like how each class has 1 stat that is useful (all use endurance)

at least in WoW you could get a little benefit from other stats

TheLizardbones

I voted better than average.

The skill trees are not very interesting. But they aren't useless either. You can pick your points based on how you want to play, and it works, but there seems to be a lot of dead space in the trees where you're just filling in points to get to the next level of stuff. I would have gone with a much simpler system...or possibly one that was more complex, but with simpler rules. In any event, the skill trees are 'meh', even if you can pick stuff to play the way you want.

The combat is standard, hot key combat with cooldowns and a global cooldown. It is, however, very functional. Unlike Rift, you don't need macros and it seems like you can pick the abilities to use based on how you want to play the class.

I'm on the fence about Advanced Classes and not being able to change them. In general, I think the idea is good...picking your AC. Even after you pick your AC, if you decide you don't actually want to heal, you still have a viable DPS route you can go, which is important because you can't change your AC once you pick it. Overall, I think this benefits the game...you think about what you're doing and what you might want to do.

I think the equipment choices and having a primary stat is a very good thing. Instead of breaking out a spreadsheet and trying to work out whether or not a new piece of equipment will give you 1 more dps or not, you just check the main stat and the secondary stat and if they are higher numbers, the gear is better. Nice and simple. Unless you want to have modifiable gear. Then it gets considerably harder and more time consuming. You can spend as much time as you want working on gearing your character out with the modifiable gear. Again, a plus. You get much better by putting time into it.

So overall, better than average, but not great. I think the talent trees are the weakest link in the character design. Fix the talent trees, make them interesting and you'd have a huge improvement in the character design.

None of the above would work if I were a min/maxer. A min/maxer would probably rate the character design as poor/bad/obscene. I am not a min/maxer. My priorities are different, so I've rated the character design accordingly.

** edit **
I almost voted 'Average', but the combat choices and gear that is clearly an upgrade or not pushed it to 'Above Average' for me.

teoyaomiqui

Originally posted by Kuinn

It would have been nice if the OP asked people to state which classes and to what level they played, to get perspective if their views has any weight at all. Though, it would require people to be honest, I often see comments about various games on mmorpg.com boards that sounds like the person never even started the game for the first time.

I've played smuggler, rated avarage.

I haven't played as much mmo's as some people here, but let me compare, since the in topic we say avarage, so it means avarage compared to others.

Linage 1, the game was fun, i've enjoyed it at that time, but classes were complete mess, there was no such thing as balance absolutely, there was mage, that transformed into deathknight, and played as a warrior, all other classes were inferior. below avarage

EQ2, the balance was poor, i didn't enjoy it, every class was something of it's own (that was fun), but I didn't really felt like the design was lacking something. avarage

WoW, well that is the best i've seen. Every class is different, every class has it's own playstyle, and the game is actually as balanced as it can be due to the first fact. so far the best

Lineage 2, classes were absolutely different from each other, and no one cared about the balance absolutely, some classes could one shoot people some couldn't do anything but rez and heal, absolutely no DPS (I know that there many chronicles, maybe it was changed later). avarage

Age of connan, I don't remember which class I've played, but at some point I was paralyzed by how much the game sucked, i really couldn't stand it, it was hell, i didn't compare classes, and i don't know if there were any, but the 'thing' i've played was hell, it was pure hell. i don't know? it just sucked. below avarage?

Fallen Earth do I need to comment?

SWTOR same as wow, but with less differences between classes...

 

 

DOGMA1138

The class design by it self is very good, and way above average than in most MMO's all 4/5 archtypes(the JC/SI sub classes are quite unique compaired to the other subclass splits...). That said i think mostly due to time constraints, and the fact that each class "must" have its own origin and progression story the implementation went some where side ways.

I belive that the Trooper, Smuggler, and the Agent should've been made available to all faction(and not mirrored ofc) while the JK/JS and the SW/SI should have been left as they are, prehaps with a bit more force wielding classes added from the SW:RPG. BW has not "invented" as single class or allmost any charcter for that matter(alltough from hearing from people who played the SW:RPG raped some of them, i.e bastila shan(SP?) which was a sentitnal and not a shadow or w/e).

There are imperial troopers just as there are republic ones i've killed enough to know that, also some smugglers work for the empire just as they do for the republic, both the smuggler and the BH are for hire.

The fact that there are only 4 mirrored classes, which share half of their abilities between their subclasses makes the game seem a tad small, and a bit tad boring. Also some specs for the sub classes seem to be forced due to fact that the design revolves around the holy trinity and there arent enough classes to fill all roles, this is especially apperant in healers and some of the tanks(shadow/assas), dont know about you but throwing kolto granades and shooting people heal them seems abit odd to me. I get the fact that there are "combat" medics but the implmentation could been bit more plausible if there was a fully fleshed out trooper-like support class to fill that roll, tied with another fully fleshed force user healer.

i.e

Jedi Knight(DPS/Tank)

Jedi Consular(Utility/DPS)

Jedi Mystic(Heal/DPS)

Assult Trooper(DPS/Tank)

Support Trooper/Specialits(Support/Heal)

Smuggler(Utility/DPS)

Agent(Utility/DPS)

 

waynejr2

You can blame some of the mirroring on the testers who wanted them to be more "equal" in their counterparts.

Sora2810

 

I voted worse than average; Compared to 'other' MMO's SWTOR's classes are cookie-cutter's, their talent's and specs are far worse. Example; Sage/Sorc only have one healing spec, meaning they are one type of healer. WoW Priests had 3 different specs which did change the gameplay style, RIFT, well, had a good number of choices too. 

For TOR it's good, but compared to other MMO's, I don't feel it offers even baseline what others launched with.

DOGMA1138

Originally posted by waynejr2

You can blame some of the mirroring on the testers who wanted them to be more "equal" in their counterparts.

Every MMO today mirrors most if not all classes, SWTOR actually mirrors the better than most by atleast providing diffrent graphics

You cant blame it on testers since classes were mirrored since the public closed beta started, the only diffrences were and still are present due to bugs and some engine mechanics.

I only blame mirroring on the fact that the class story takes a shitload of time to complete, doest matter what you think of the story or the voice acting it is still required a tenfold more effort than any MMO have put into class stories till date. If there was no class story it would be much easier to increase the class count and "mirror" classes like all other MMO's by just givving all classes to both sides. There is a reason why Blizzard abandoned the little class variation it had and gave shamans and paladins to both faction, it is very hard to ballance PVE and PVP encounters when playing field is not even, heck till TBC they went out of their way to make the Shaman and Paladin buffs even... The horde cried havoc for ages because they didnt had BoS and aggro was a pain to manage in the early days(no dependable threat meters, broken taunt mechanics, and taunt immune bosses were not fun for tanks:)).

There is nothing wrong with mirroring, there is somthing wrong with only playing 4 classes, i could not level a trooper after leveling a bounty hunter, even tho i went a diffrent spec class the mechanics(by that i mean the main rotation, not stand at XM and shoot) atleast till the early 30's was just too much of the same, i could litterly only play the commando as a healer in instances and since it's pretty hard to find people to do instnaces continuasly at 30-50 i just cant bring my self to level my commando

stealthbr

I see the class design as better than average. Firstly, TOR implements a mechanic used previously in Warhammer which I believe is great for its tanking classes called Guard. Basically, it adds another dynamic to tanking and makes tanks more useful in PvP. Another thing I like about the classes, specifically the Gunslinger/Sniper, is the cover mechanic. This makes trenching tactics extremely useful but the character has to always pay attention to his positioning and the flow of battle as it becomes vital for defending points of interest. Another thing I really like is the little to no downtime with the classes and the fact that they each get their own out of combat heal. This makes every character a whole lot more self sufficient and keeps the flow of action going. I also feel the animations are nicely made and fit suprisingly well with the actual combat. Talent tree-wise the game is alright, nothing special. Mechanics-wise, I believe some were well thought out like the Bounty Hunter's heat levels, with heat taking longer to dissipate the more it accumulates. Ability-wise it's quite average as well. I do like the fact that every class gets an out-of-combat resurrection ability.

Wickedjelly

As with many things in this game I find it to be average.

Few classes stand out a bit but frankly I think the smuggler class sucks so overall average for me.

DJJazzy

I put it at average. Nothing really strikes me as out of ordinary and they have pretty much all of bases covered for a trinity based mmo.

Distopia

I voted average mostly because I'm a skill based fan, so any class system is going to fell  limited to me. I do like smuggler in that it reminds me of the witchhunter from WAR, which i had a lot of fun on that class, same goes for smuggler (scoundrel) thus far.

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