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Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Endgame Grind: PvE vs. PvP

MikeBMikeB Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,527

While many of us would like to see MMO developers try something different when it comes to the endgame, we're all familiar with 'the grind' by now. But does Star Wars: The Old Republic offer worthwhile progression in both PvE and PvP? Or is one area stronger than the other? Read on for our thoughts!

It’s hard to think about an MMO that doesn’t present you with some form or another of grind once you reach the game’s level cap (and often before!). Star Wars: The Old Republic is no different in that upon hitting cap you won’t be surprised by the activities available to you. There is an assortment of daily and weekly quests associated with both PvE and PvP content, and you’ll want to complete them (and the relevant content) to continue to progress your character. I’ve accepted the endgame grind at this point, but the disparity between enjoyment of PvP and PvE in the game is a large one.

Read more of Michael Bitton's Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Endgame Grind: PvE vs. PvP.

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Michael "MikeB" Bitton
Community Manager
Twitter: @eMikeB

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Comments

  • SkillCosbySkillCosby Member Posts: 684

    Sometimes I want to shift the engine in neutral and just hang out. I can't do that in SWTOR. However, the lack of Social Tools in SWTOR isn't the only problem. A huge problem is in regards to the lack of immersion and extremely small scale of Huttball, Instanced PvP, and tiny instanced raids.

    The game is just all around bad for the genre. They should bump the monthly fee down to $4.99 per month and consider it a Massive Co'op Game.

    SWTOR is not a Massive Multiplayer Game.

  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637

    I feel this to:

    The worlds are not seamless and come with hefty load times.

    Crafting is a lottery and a companion mission fest.

    And what you do get to do seems to be broken half the time I.E I just loaded into huttball to be afk flagged by the game and stopped by a screen entering the match to then be booted back to the imperial fleet.

    This game does feel more like a co-op single story fest.

    Maybe worth giving this game a year see what they do with it.

  • TheFirst109TheFirst109 Member UncommonPosts: 182

    Well I do agree, I can't really consider SW to be a MMO at the moment. It definitely feels more like a phantasy star online type game (but nowhere near as fun as the original PSO). I don't really know how they can justify charging 15 a month for this game when GW2 and Diablo will be free, and one of the two (Diablo) is much more similar to it in terms of social interaction. If anything a smaller fee would be justified at this point.

    Now, in terms of progression. I think the PvE progression is alright at this point for a newly released game. My only complaint would be that upgrading from columi to rakata gear is very negligible stat wise from my viewpoint as a sorc, and especially from the viewpoint of a few of my raid members who have accuracy all over their gear and don't want/need it.

    The PvP progression on the other hand is terrible until you reach Battlemaster. I don't know who at BW thought random loot bags would be the way to go to obtain pvp epics, but it was a wonderfully terrible idea.

  • nomssnomss Member UncommonPosts: 1,468

    leeching Valor....

  • SoulticeSoultice Member UncommonPosts: 112

    SWTOR is just another gear grind once you hit 50.   I feel like I am playing guildwars with the exception I am paying a monthly fee to do the same thing.  The world is basically empty unless you hit space fleet.  Heck even most instances are on space fleet.  The instances on Ilum are tough when the population in the zone is 15 to 20.

    I feel like I am playing one of Biowares solo RPG PC games to be honest.  This is definitely not a MMORPG, but more like Guildwars with a fee.

    I just play now when my son is on but will not renew. 

    Oh and you better not post it in the SWTOR site those fans are vicious when you point out the games problems.  I thought the WOW forums were bad back in the day.









     




     

  • MacroHardMacroHard Member Posts: 104

    Originally posted by Wicoa

    Maybe worth giving this game a year see what they do with it.


     

    I know $180 doesn't sound like a lot of money but think of playing for a year only to be more disappointed than you are now.. I don't see BioWare delivering anything good for this game that won't feel like rushed attempts.  Good luck, hope I'm wrong.

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 706

    i don't wanna "help them" cause they made an evil game, themepark user-friendly accessible bullshit without the smallest trace of challenge for the player, but they should just conjure up a great RvR political system, a big senate, discussions and battles and a little tool for the player to write their own content.

    Do this and hey presto the game beats any WoW of any multiversus. 

    Bam. It took me 30 seconds to write the secret to MMO success. How hard was it?

  • thamighty213thamighty213 Member UncommonPosts: 1,637

    PVP warzones are fun IMO,   ILUM sucks nuts though weget about 30 mins of pvp per day then it descends into the Daytona 500 and jsut riding in circles fighitng 20 other people for 5 or so spawns I wont even bother heading there now.

     

    PVE I don't really touch anyway.  Still have 15 levels of valor to go for BM so hoping Ilum is somewhat sorted by the time I get there.

  • DinesenDKDinesenDK Member Posts: 3

    No matter how we slice it:

    The game has in the end been rushed by EA - Who probably thought Story would be enough.

    Crafting and pvp is omg bad, and it is scary that the guys from Mythic didn't even have the skill to copy the game they came from, for just a descent pvp system...... 

    1. less random lootbags for pvp.

    2. bring all the planets into play when making openworld objectives.

    3. Make Valor reward you at each lvl - remember renown from WAR?

    It is not that hard... yes I could keep going, but I dont see any paycheck from EA or BW yet.. ;)

     



     

  • Joshua69Joshua69 Member UncommonPosts: 953

    glad Idont PvP. PvP just makes the game stale. WoW's focus was PvE, then PvP. and ever since its a stupid balancing act. I hope swtor doesn't follow this and just sticks to PvE, if you want to PvP, go play WoW or LoL

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    op:your friend might want to spend some time in other pvp !like outlaws den!wait that would mean hopping on a ship getting there and then reaching outlaws den,bah probably better farming just in case one drop in 50 more try .(grin)

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    I'm not enjoying either endgame because it's the same crap I can do in every other themepark MMO since WoW.  I'm tired of the raid or die or pvp or die mentality of endgame mechanics.  I want mechanics the likes of FFXI's dynamis, gardening, mission storylines for each nation, deep crafting, fishing, overarching storyline/campaign encompassing the whole game, low level raids like Garrison, Expeditionary Force.  As well as a plethora of other activities I can't remember at the moment because there are so many.

    I want housing, guild housing/perks, collections, real achievements for me to strive for, not this quasi encyclopedic codex that isn't really rewarding, more class story, more quest variation like bombing runs from vehicles, escorts, king of the hill moments.

    I want PVP in open world areas to matter, I want each valor level or every other valor level to offer me some sort of incentive or reward, I want varying sets of armor to choose from so I don't look like everyone else in my class, I want to dye my armor or at least get it to match, I want to log in and take a jog around my favorite world and discover exotic locations I had never seen before.  I want to go wandering off into the sands of tattooine's desert without dying of exhaustion, I want....

    I'll stop there.  Granted, I realize this is launch and many things will be added over time, but the current game itself....it's not keeping me around long enough for these things to get implemented.  A good mmorpg launches with enough content and addictive qualities that I last long enough for the game to add the above.  SWTOR has not launched with these qualities and it's a shame.

    Wow...sorry for the rant...but all these ideas just kept coming into my head as I thought about what would keep me playing the game and enjoying it now that I've "beat" the game already.

  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575

    In my guild we only had 1 level 50 and he said it was boring and quit.  I'm Almost level 47 now so I guess I'm about to find out.

     

    One thing at level 47 that is irritating though is the load screens.  Once you get on the world it's fine.  But to get there you have to go to the hangar (load screen) run up to your ship (load screen) pick you planet and fly there, disembark to the orbiting station (load screen), run across the station to the planetary shuttle (load screen) land at the planets space port and run over to an elevator (load screen) before getting to see the world.  Now....how many load screens was that....5 load screens, lol. 

     

    Maybe I'll work on crafting when I hit max.  PVP in SWTOR is not that impressive to me and raiding is not my thing.  Lately I've been thinking of trying out Rift.

  • TerminatusTerminatus Member Posts: 104

    ...Star Wars has Mechs?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?

  • marz.at.playmarz.at.play Member UncommonPosts: 912

    Originally posted by elocke

    I'm not enjoying either endgame because it's the same crap I can do in every other themepark MMO since WoW.  I'm tired of the raid or die or pvp or die mentality of endgame mechanics.  I want mechanics the likes of FFXI's dynamis, gardening, mission storylines for each nation, deep crafting, fishing, overarching storyline/campaign encompassing the whole game, low level raids like Garrison, Expeditionary Force.  As well as a plethora of other activities I can't remember at the moment because there are so many.

    I want housing, guild housing/perks, collections, real achievements for me to strive for, not this quasi encyclopedic codex that isn't really rewarding, more class story, more quest variation like bombing runs from vehicles, escorts, king of the hill moments.

    I want PVP in open world areas to matter, I want each valor level or every other valor level to offer me some sort of incentive or reward, I want varying sets of armor to choose from so I don't look like everyone else in my class, I want to dye my armor or at least get it to match, I want to log in and take a jog around my favorite world and discover exotic locations I had never seen before.  I want to go wandering off into the sands of tattooine's desert without dying of exhaustion, I want....

    I'll stop there.  Granted, I realize this is launch and many things will be added over time, but the current game itself....it's not keeping me around long enough for these things to get implemented.  A good mmorpg launches with enough content and addictive qualities that I last long enough for the game to add the above.  SWTOR has not launched with these qualities and it's a shame.

    Wow...sorry for the rant...but all these ideas just kept coming into my head as I thought about what would keep me playing the game and enjoying it now that I've "beat" the game already.




     

    Well said!

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  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907

    Originally posted by elocke

    I'm not enjoying either endgame because it's the same crap I can do in every other themepark MMO since WoW.  I'm tired of the raid or die or pvp or die mentality of endgame mechanics.  I want mechanics the likes of FFXI's dynamis, gardening, mission storylines for each nation, deep crafting, fishing, overarching storyline/campaign encompassing the whole game, low level raids like Garrison, Expeditionary Force.  As well as a plethora of other activities I can't remember at the moment because there are so many.

    I want housing, guild housing/perks, collections, real achievements for me to strive for, not this quasi encyclopedic codex that isn't really rewarding, more class story, more quest variation like bombing runs from vehicles, escorts, king of the hill moments.

    I want PVP in open world areas to matter, I want each valor level or every other valor level to offer me some sort of incentive or reward, I want varying sets of armor to choose from so I don't look like everyone else in my class, I want to dye my armor or at least get it to match, I want to log in and take a jog around my favorite world and discover exotic locations I had never seen before.  I want to go wandering off into the sands of tattooine's desert without dying of exhaustion, I want....

    I'll stop there.  Granted, I realize this is launch and many things will be added over time, but the current game itself....it's not keeping me around long enough for these things to get implemented.  A good mmorpg launches with enough content and addictive qualities that I last long enough for the game to add the above.  SWTOR has not launched with these qualities and it's a shame.

    Wow...sorry for the rant...but all these ideas just kept coming into my head as I thought about what would keep me playing the game and enjoying it now that I've "beat" the game already.

    Me too elocke, me too.

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    One thing - once I load into the orbital station for a planet, once I take the shuttle to the surface there is a load screen again but no bar it takes like 2-3 seconds and I'm on world.

    Which tells me the planet is loaded during this time not just the station.

    Which makes it confusing as to why the orbital stations even exist at all in the first place.

    At about 47 1/2 right now, will hopefully be hitting 50 this week (depends on work) but then will see how good/bad the end game is. I'm more looking forward to PvE flashpoints and Operations than the PvP side - will probably only do my Illum stuff when guildies are on, but fully plan on starting PvP roams on high level planets and Illum.

    I will never allow an Imperial to kill me so that they can get their points. Bastards going to have to work for it. Even if I am alone and the rest of my Op standing around, I'll be fighting to the bitter end.

  • gorgogorngorgogorn Member Posts: 29

    "Some will argue that SW:TOR is a PvE game, but I stubbornly refuse to accept that." This commnet baffles me. Why can't you accept a game isn't what you want it to be? I don't play Batmna: Arkham City and say "some would say its a stealth game not a fps but i refuse to accept that. "

    The game is what is and it is clearly meant to be pve with pvp thrown in for either "ned" or as a diversion.

  • NeopaganNeopagan Member Posts: 34

    Boy have I heard this SOO many times before but you are entitled to your own opinion and so here is mine.

    I understand you do not like the PvP fine thats hard luck, personally I detest PvP with a passion. I am PvE or RP through and through. I am not a fan boy and I was frankly dubious about the game when I partook in beta. However I play it everyday now and I am enjoying every element of it. I agree there are some tweaks to be made but it is a pretty sound game from release. My highest toon is 32 and like I said I play a good 3 hours every day and am having a blast.

    The PvE is right on the mark and that will be the success of the game which whether you agree with it or not is where the majority of the players sit. Bioware like any good company out to make money should cater for the player base that dominates and no criticism to you guys but PvP is a vocal minority with MMO's. That is not a slam but the statistics do speak for themselves.

    My only concern is that granted it sounds like PvP functions need some love I just hope they do not outweigh that love with additional content in the PvE bread and butter elements as ultimately thats where they will be making their money.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The angel of death has been abroad throughout the land; you may almost hear the beating of his wings.

    House of Commons, 23 Feb. 1855

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    as i mentionned in other thread static content is nice for leveling but after that treating player like squirel at end game because the game doesnt want organise dynamic event via say gm doesnt merit the player bothering to try to support the game via buying and monthly

  • BrodterBrodter Member Posts: 73
    Grind is unavoidable. I just hope we get several areas or specialties to grind.

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  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,221

    Using the word "Grind" and this game doesn't seem to make sense.  This is a game in which you hit the level cap, playing very casually, in one month and get the rest of the PvE gear in another couple months. 

    Why does everyone want to finish a game in three months and then complain that it took too long?  Do you want to buy another MMO every few months????

     

    Also I'm starting to see that the PvP community is either much larger than I thought (30%) or they are by far the most vocal.  It seems all I hear about anymore are PvP this and PvP that. 

  • CandombleCandomble Member UncommonPosts: 164

    This game is as much MMO as the vast majority of the other available MMOs out there.

    That said, I am tired of gear grinding as an endgame goal. Other alternatives are more than known and that was not the path Bioware chose. Unfortunately. I would even say that probably the majority of players prefer this kind of route...

    I will stay in SWTOR until I get tired of leveling some alts or until TSW is out. At this moment I am having fun, but it will stop when I reach that same old story second job endgame.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne Member UncommonPosts: 1,549
    SWTOR's spaceship combat could be 1 server for all PvP, like Eve Online.

    If the combat was 1st person perspective for dog fights, this might improve upon Eve.
  • TalinTalin Member Posts: 824

    PVP just wasn't well-developed and was never intended as the strong-suit for the game. Adding open-world PVP was a bad idea, and the instanced games are as a fun diversion but are not intended as a core component of the game.

    This IS a PVE game primarily; the Warzones and other PVP aspects are just not enough to make it anything other than that. I can imagine a huge PVP expansion in the future, but would personally (my preference) rank that behind expanded 50+ storylines for PVE, a "real"  Space flying/combat system, and additional social (non-combat) functionality.

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