There may be a case to be made defending this game from unsourced comment on the Internet but the childish language and childlike reasoning of the article's author aren't it.
"To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."
Sounds pretty much like a definition of the article I just read in that link from the OP.
Of course none of this has anything to do with the realities of the game.
Just seems kind of strange to say a poster made themself look like a fool... when they seemed pretty on the mark for the article.
You are claiming that the ambiguity of the internet makes it in itself a straw man (object) because its murkey and undefined.
I hope you see how this makes it impossible to argue with anyone anymore then... since we're all anonymous unidentifyable figures.
The entire debate is over opinion statements, to assume that anyone could be 'right' or 'wrong' about things like "I think the graphics are cool" is entirely silly.
Author does not intend to refute "graphics look bad" claims, he intends to point out that they are pointless. Which I feel he does.
And your statment in response to his statement was a strawman argument.
Strawmanception!
I lawled.
I'll admit that I didn't directly address the argument... AT FIRST.
PS: This post is not directed at the people who have brought up legitimate concerns with the game. Like the article, this was directed at those who have hated TOR from the very beginning and were never going to give it a chance in the first place.
to me at least reading these forums and the official ones the people who were set out to flame this game from the start are a small minority. Most people on here who I see dislike the game for whatever reason can list of 10+ things they dislike about the game and exactly why they feel it ruins the game for them.. I see more "this game rocks!" with no explaination behind it than I see "this game sucks ass" with no explaination behind it. Most people who regularly post here and genuinely dislike the game for whatever reason can tell you exactly why and I would't say that's trolling or having a vendetta against bioware or a consiparcy trying to make the game fail.
Personally, I think the game suffered from some of the worst overhype I have ever seen...
But I called that a long time before launch. People were saying that SWTOR would launch smooth and perfect and pictured it to be flawless. Let's get real though. Bioware has a few people who have done MMOs before on their team... maybe if I were to wager a guess 15% would be a generous amount. The rest have no idea how to make an MMO... but they do know one thing. In order to establish a unique MMO, you absolutely must not be a complete copy of your predecessors. Partial copy? Absolutely. 100% copy? That would fail and fail hard.
That is why SWTOR doesn't have arenas, or flying mounts, or even mods. I get a real sense that this game will grow in a completely different direction from the rest of the genre. If I am right, this will create some really healthy competition between SWTOR, WOW, and Rift... provided nothing too drastic happens to Bioware. Large companies like EA have been known to make permanent decisions in reaction to temporary trends.... so we will have to see.
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Personally, I think the game suffered from some of the worst overhype I have ever seen...
But I called that a long time before launch. People were saying that SWTOR would launch smooth and perfect and pictured it to be flawless. Let's get real though. Bioware has a few people who have done MMOs before on their team... maybe if I were to wager a guess 15% would be a generous amount. The rest have no idea how to make an MMO... but they do know one thing. In order to establish a unique MMO, you absolutely must not be a complete copy of your predecessors. Partial copy? Absolutely. 100% copy? That would fail and fail hard.
That is why SWTOR doesn't have arenas, or flying mounts, or even mods. I get a real sense that this game will grow in a completely different direction from the rest of the genre. If I am right, this will create some really healthy competition between SWTOR, WOW, and Rift... provided nothing too drastic happens to Bioware. Large companies like EA have been known to make permanent decisions in reaction to temporary trends.... so we will have to see.
really? from what i saw most of there dev team has worked on at least one MMO before.. many from mythic and I HIGHLY doubt it was only 15%
PS: This post is not directed at the people who have brought up legitimate concerns with the game. Like the article, this was directed at those who have hated TOR from the very beginning and were never going to give it a chance in the first place.
to me at least reading these forums and the official ones the people who were set out to flame this game from the start are a small minority. Most people on here who I see dislike the game for whatever reason can list of 10+ things they dislike about the game and exactly why they feel it ruins the game for them.. I see more "this game rocks!" with no explaination behind it than I see "this game sucks ass" with no explaination behind it. Most people who regularly post here and genuinely dislike the game for whatever reason can tell you exactly why and I would't say that's trolling or having a vendetta against bioware or a consiparcy trying to make the game fail.
I disagree with this. It's my observation that most people around here are just like your follow-up people who say 'this game rocks' and leave it at that.
But see, that's because of our difference of opinions, neither one of us is 'righter'(lol) than the other on an observational level. You're falling away from the game so you unintentionally disregard the real trolls just as much as I glaze over and disregard the avid fans. A person naturally gravitates towrads their own opinion while objection to such opinion will always stick out. I'm sure there's an article on wiki about a theory that covers this concept.
The thing is, though, just because someone can list 10+ reasons "why they feel it ruins the game for them" doesn't make them valid reasons why 'this game sucks' without adding 'for me'. Yes, there is a big difference and the 'this game sucks' tends to be overly critical and doesn't always rate it under what BW set out to do.
BUT! I do agree with you about it not necessarily being trolling or a vendetta. The thing is, in the scope of the internet, that is but a small minority of all the 'hate' this game is getting. There is such a thing as 'this game simply isn't for me' without it having to be 'horrible'.
On top of that, we have posters on these forums, with valid or not reason, continually staying and posting their dislike over and over. This starts to border on trolling and is against the rules of conduct on this site. Let us not forget this is a forum for SWTOR, which implies mostly positive but allowing of negative. There is a forum for "Love or hate the game? Create a thread and let us know why!" and it's not GD.
I also do agree that this game has legitimate faults and grievances against it. IMO, though, they are rarely aired in said 'trashing posts'.
I also agree that there are some logical and reasonable dislikers of this game on these forums. I do not mind them at all as they are logical and reasonable... can't find fault with logic and reason.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
PS: This post is not directed at the people who have brought up legitimate concerns with the game. Like the article, this was directed at those who have hated TOR from the very beginning and were never going to give it a chance in the first place.
to me at least reading these forums and the official ones the people who were set out to flame this game from the start are a small minority. Most people on here who I see dislike the game for whatever reason can list of 10+ things they dislike about the game and exactly why they feel it ruins the game for them.. I see more "this game rocks!" with no explaination behind it than I see "this game sucks ass" with no explaination behind it. Most people who regularly post here and genuinely dislike the game for whatever reason can tell you exactly why and I would't say that's trolling or having a vendetta against bioware or a consiparcy trying to make the game fail.
I disagree with this. It's my observation that most people around here are just like your follow-up people who say 'this game rocks' and leave it at that.
But see, that's because of our difference of opinions, neither one of us is 'righter'(lol) than the other on an observational level. You're falling away from the game so you unintentionally disregard the real trolls just as much as I glaze over and disregard the avid fans. A person naturally gravitates towrads their own opinion while objection to such opinion will always stick out. I'm sure there's an article on wiki about a theory that covers this concept.
The thing is, though, just because someone can list 10+ reasons "why they feel it ruins the game for them" doesn't make them valid reasons why 'this game sucks' without adding 'for me'. Yes, there is a big difference and the 'this game sucks' tends to be overly critical and doesn't always rate it under what BW set out to do.
BUT! I do agree with you about it not necessarily being trolling or a vendetta. The thing is, in the scope of the internet, that is but a small minority of all the 'hate' this game is getting. There is such a thing as 'this game simply isn't for me' without it having to be 'horrible'.
On top of that, we have posters on these forums, with valid or not reason, continually staying and posting their dislike over and over. This starts to border on trolling and is against the rules of conduct on this site. Let us not forget this is a forum for SWTOR, which implies mostly positive but allowing of negative. There is a forum for "Love or hate the game? Create a thread and let us know why!" and it's not GD.
I also do agree that this game has legitimate faults and grievances against it. IMO, though, they are rarely aired in said 'trashing posts'.
I also agree that there are some logical and reasonable dislikers of this game on these forums. I do not mind them at all as they are logical and reasonable... can't find fault with logic and reason.
fair enough I wish most posters would be this logically and straight forward with there responses instead most like to twist my words around and do nothing but bait... hope to get mroe constructive replies like this one.. +1 for you:)
Personally, I think the game suffered from some of the worst overhype I have ever seen...
But I called that a long time before launch. People were saying that SWTOR would launch smooth and perfect and pictured it to be flawless. Let's get real though. Bioware has a few people who have done MMOs before on their team... maybe if I were to wager a guess 15% would be a generous amount. The rest have no idea how to make an MMO... but they do know one thing. In order to establish a unique MMO, you absolutely must not be a complete copy of your predecessors. Partial copy? Absolutely. 100% copy? That would fail and fail hard.
That is why SWTOR doesn't have arenas, or flying mounts, or even mods. I get a real sense that this game will grow in a completely different direction from the rest of the genre. If I am right, this will create some really healthy competition between SWTOR, WOW, and Rift... provided nothing too drastic happens to Bioware. Large companies like EA have been known to make permanent decisions in reaction to temporary trends.... so we will have to see.
really? from what i saw most of there dev team has worked on at least one MMO before.. many from mythic and I HIGHLY doubt it was only 15%
Unfortunately, it's only something that Bioware really knows, but yeah... the 15% I am talking about is Mythic. Mythic was never a massive company. I know, they put out WAR, but you have to think about employees making different transitions over the years, and the fact that Bioware basically dwafed Mythic. If Bioware didn't dwarf them, it would be Mythic's name stamped on SWTOR.
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Very funny but long article. Read it at work or leisure. Thoughts?
So true. And pretty much exactly what I've been saying since release... This game has the biggest hate bandwagon I've seen since WoW.
I don't care who you are, this game does not deserve lower than a 6 by any stretch of the imagination. In my personal opinion, it doesn't deserve below an 8.
Very funny but long article. Read it at work or leisure. Thoughts?
So true. And pretty much exactly what I've been saying since release... This game has the biggest hate bandwagon I've seen since WoW.
I don't care who you are, this game does not deserve lower than a 6 by any stretch of the imagination. In my personal opinion, it doesn't deserve below an 8.
I was at a 7 at launch longer I play the further my score drops though.. it just keeps getting more and more mundane and the serious issues stick out even more the longer I play.. if I was going to score the game today I'd say it's maybe a 5
Star Wars is fine. It's player base is huge and will continue to be so. It's made by BioWare and EA , they will not fail.
The game might not be the most amazing MMO ever in existence, but it is good. Hype killed this game.
Anyway, wait a few months, it will be very, very good then and still do better than every other MMO being released this year.
I agree man this game will go on based on the star wars name alone. I saw almost no change after the first month. And the fact that after increasing server cap most servers are still hitting heavy to full is a good sign. On Juyo we have 200 or so people on the fleet in peak time and about 200 or so on corsucant at peak times (and and average of 60-100 on other planets except for quesh). Empire probably has 2 times that number. So i think SWTOR is doing good and probably had a great retention rate. IMO swtor is here to stay whether you like it or not. And it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Also SWTOR is still the no.1 seller on amazon among non digital box only game.( i am sure it would be no.1 on digital too if you could DL it from amazon.)
If the game was good people wouldn't need to defend it so much.
hahaha no one is defending lol. People smack talk it and fans counter attack them. This is nothing new
true yet on other games that are good or decent I could go on youtube and watch some fun pvp videos or some nice combat videos or some nice videos of people showing the landscapes and such of a game or how much attention to detail the developers put into their world(or worlds) to make the gamers feel more immersed in the game itself. Yet I don't see any for this game and can't seem to find any.. If i could find all this stuff currently in-game I would make my own but I haven't found it yet...
They get their feelings hurt when someone doesn't like their game.
and thats exactly when they attack the so called "haters". again nothing new it happens in every game forum. just go to the WoW forums. Still holding what? 10 mil players? and look at its forum on this site lol
If the game was good people wouldn't need to defend it so much.
hahaha no one is defending lol. People smack talk it and fans counter attack them. This is nothing new
true yet on other games that are good or decent I could go on youtube and watch some fun pvp videos or some nice combat videos or some nice videos of people showing the landscapes and such of a game or how much attention to detail the developers put into their world(or worlds) to make the gamers feel more immersed in the game itself. Yet I don't see any for this game and can't seem to find any.. If i could find all this stuff currently in-game I would make my own but I haven't found it yet...
Good or decent is subjective. What's good for you might not be for others. Billions of beiber fans out there. Are they all wrong? no. none of them are. It's their choice. Same here. Millions and growing subs play TOR, is it a bad game for them? no, is it a bad game for you? yes. What you like/dislike does not reflect what most like/dislike. As a matter of fact you are a minority here
If the game was good people wouldn't need to defend it so much.
hahaha no one is defending lol. People smack talk it and fans counter attack them. This is nothing new
true yet on other games that are good or decent I could go on youtube and watch some fun pvp videos or some nice combat videos or some nice videos of people showing the landscapes and such of a game or how much attention to detail the developers put into their world(or worlds) to make the gamers feel more immersed in the game itself. Yet I don't see any for this game and can't seem to find any.. If i could find all this stuff currently in-game I would make my own but I haven't found it yet...
Good or decent is subjective. What's good for you might not be for others. Billions of beiber fans out there. Are they all wrong? no. none of them are. It's their choioce. Same here. Millions and growing subs play TOR, is it a bad game for them? no, is it a bad game for you? yes. What you like/dislike does not reflect what most like/dislike. As a matter of fact you are a minority here
if they failed to make an enjoyable game to a mmo addict/star wars fanboy who loves bioware games than I say they failed hardcore in so many ways but I said it before but we can play the whose better at predicting MMO failure/success game in couple months... although looking at the past years the odds are more in my favor:P
If the game was good people wouldn't need to defend it so much.
hahaha no one is defending lol. People smack talk it and fans counter attack them. This is nothing new
true yet on other games that are good or decent I could go on youtube and watch some fun pvp videos or some nice combat videos or some nice videos of people showing the landscapes and such of a game or how much attention to detail the developers put into their world(or worlds) to make the gamers feel more immersed in the game itself. Yet I don't see any for this game and can't seem to find any.. If i could find all this stuff currently in-game I would make my own but I haven't found it yet...
Good or decent is subjective. What's good for you might not be for others. Billions of beiber fans out there. Are they all wrong? no. none of them are. It's their choioce. Same here. Millions and growing subs play TOR, is it a bad game for them? no, is it a bad game for you? yes. What you like/dislike does not reflect what most like/dislike. As a matter of fact you are a minority here
if they failed to make an enjoyable game to a mmo addict/star wars fanboy who loves bioware games than I say they failed hardcore in so many ways but I said it before but we can play the whose better at predicting MMO failure/success game in couple months... although looking at the past years the odds are more in my favor:P
I hear what you are saying and so far the retention rate has been really good after free month. And with the upcoming content patches next month i really don't see this game dropping. I was there at warhammer the zones became dead after 15 days and there were server merges within a month or so. TOR is nowhere near that mark. Odds are not in anyone favor my friend
EDIT: not to mention the game is selling like hotcakes everywhere and it is getting new players everyday . And good sir please stop passing opinion as a fact a tad less thank you
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
If the game was good people wouldn't need to defend it so much.
hahaha no one is defending lol. People smack talk it and fans counter attack them. This is nothing new
true yet on other games that are good or decent I could go on youtube and watch some fun pvp videos or some nice combat videos or some nice videos of people showing the landscapes and such of a game or how much attention to detail the developers put into their world(or worlds) to make the gamers feel more immersed in the game itself. Yet I don't see any for this game and can't seem to find any.. If i could find all this stuff currently in-game I would make my own but I haven't found it yet...
Good or decent is subjective. What's good for you might not be for others. Billions of beiber fans out there. Are they all wrong? no. none of them are. It's their choioce. Same here. Millions and growing subs play TOR, is it a bad game for them? no, is it a bad game for you? yes. What you like/dislike does not reflect what most like/dislike. As a matter of fact you are a minority here
if they failed to make an enjoyable game to a mmo addict/star wars fanboy who loves bioware games than I say they failed hardcore in so many ways but I said it before but we can play the whose better at predicting MMO failure/success game in couple months... although looking at the past years the odds are more in my favor:P
I hear what you are saying and so far the retention rate has been really good after free month. And with the upcoming content patches next month i really don't see this game dropping. I was there at warhammer the zones became dead after 15 days and there were server merges within a month or so. TOR is nowhere near that mark. Odds are not in anyone favor my friend
EDIT: not to mention the game is selling like hotcakes everywhere and it is getting new players everyday . And good sir please stop passing opinion as a fact a tad less thank you
where did I say anything about opinion or fact it should be obvious anyones views on here is just opinion... you are the one trying to state opinions as facts.. show me numbers saying this game is thriving and growing.. if not then you are the one passing opinion as fact.
shard or server status is no indication of population at all you have no clue what the server population numbers are.. you have no clue what light means you have no clue what heavy means.. also all I see here is a huge drop off in sales http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/Global/ so still not seeing any proof this game is exploding and keeping 80% of its players or anything crazy like people are claiming.. so still not seeing facts here
either way I said it many times I feel this game will do just fine for a few months but at 3-6 month mark many players will hit 50 with a couple characters and unless bioware can bust out some serious miracle patches I just don't see people sticking around till years end
Comments
There may be a case to be made defending this game from unsourced comment on the Internet but the childish language and childlike reasoning of the article's author aren't it.
I lawled.
I'll admit that I didn't directly address the argument... AT FIRST.
However, I certainly did by sentance 4.
to me at least reading these forums and the official ones the people who were set out to flame this game from the start are a small minority. Most people on here who I see dislike the game for whatever reason can list of 10+ things they dislike about the game and exactly why they feel it ruins the game for them.. I see more "this game rocks!" with no explaination behind it than I see "this game sucks ass" with no explaination behind it. Most people who regularly post here and genuinely dislike the game for whatever reason can tell you exactly why and I would't say that's trolling or having a vendetta against bioware or a consiparcy trying to make the game fail.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Personally, I think the game suffered from some of the worst overhype I have ever seen...
But I called that a long time before launch. People were saying that SWTOR would launch smooth and perfect and pictured it to be flawless. Let's get real though. Bioware has a few people who have done MMOs before on their team... maybe if I were to wager a guess 15% would be a generous amount. The rest have no idea how to make an MMO... but they do know one thing. In order to establish a unique MMO, you absolutely must not be a complete copy of your predecessors. Partial copy? Absolutely. 100% copy? That would fail and fail hard.
That is why SWTOR doesn't have arenas, or flying mounts, or even mods. I get a real sense that this game will grow in a completely different direction from the rest of the genre. If I am right, this will create some really healthy competition between SWTOR, WOW, and Rift... provided nothing too drastic happens to Bioware. Large companies like EA have been known to make permanent decisions in reaction to temporary trends.... so we will have to see.
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really? from what i saw most of there dev team has worked on at least one MMO before.. many from mythic and I HIGHLY doubt it was only 15%
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I'll admit, I just wanted to say Strawmanception! and your comment was perfect.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
I disagree with this. It's my observation that most people around here are just like your follow-up people who say 'this game rocks' and leave it at that.
But see, that's because of our difference of opinions, neither one of us is 'righter'(lol) than the other on an observational level. You're falling away from the game so you unintentionally disregard the real trolls just as much as I glaze over and disregard the avid fans. A person naturally gravitates towrads their own opinion while objection to such opinion will always stick out. I'm sure there's an article on wiki about a theory that covers this concept.
The thing is, though, just because someone can list 10+ reasons "why they feel it ruins the game for them" doesn't make them valid reasons why 'this game sucks' without adding 'for me'. Yes, there is a big difference and the 'this game sucks' tends to be overly critical and doesn't always rate it under what BW set out to do.
BUT! I do agree with you about it not necessarily being trolling or a vendetta. The thing is, in the scope of the internet, that is but a small minority of all the 'hate' this game is getting. There is such a thing as 'this game simply isn't for me' without it having to be 'horrible'.
On top of that, we have posters on these forums, with valid or not reason, continually staying and posting their dislike over and over. This starts to border on trolling and is against the rules of conduct on this site. Let us not forget this is a forum for SWTOR, which implies mostly positive but allowing of negative. There is a forum for "Love or hate the game? Create a thread and let us know why!" and it's not GD.
I also do agree that this game has legitimate faults and grievances against it. IMO, though, they are rarely aired in said 'trashing posts'.
I also agree that there are some logical and reasonable dislikers of this game on these forums. I do not mind them at all as they are logical and reasonable... can't find fault with logic and reason.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
fair enough I wish most posters would be this logically and straight forward with there responses instead most like to twist my words around and do nothing but bait... hope to get mroe constructive replies like this one.. +1 for you:)
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Unfortunately, it's only something that Bioware really knows, but yeah... the 15% I am talking about is Mythic. Mythic was never a massive company. I know, they put out WAR, but you have to think about employees making different transitions over the years, and the fact that Bioware basically dwafed Mythic. If Bioware didn't dwarf them, it would be Mythic's name stamped on SWTOR.
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So true. And pretty much exactly what I've been saying since release... This game has the biggest hate bandwagon I've seen since WoW.
I don't care who you are, this game does not deserve lower than a 6 by any stretch of the imagination. In my personal opinion, it doesn't deserve below an 8.
I was at a 7 at launch longer I play the further my score drops though.. it just keeps getting more and more mundane and the serious issues stick out even more the longer I play.. if I was going to score the game today I'd say it's maybe a 5
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Star Wars is fine. It's player base is huge and will continue to be so. It's made by BioWare and EA , they will not fail.
The game might not be the most amazing MMO ever in existence, but it is good. Hype killed this game.
Anyway, wait a few months, it will be very, very good then and still do better than every other MMO being released this year.
I agree man this game will go on based on the star wars name alone. I saw almost no change after the first month. And the fact that after increasing server cap most servers are still hitting heavy to full is a good sign. On Juyo we have 200 or so people on the fleet in peak time and about 200 or so on corsucant at peak times (and and average of 60-100 on other planets except for quesh). Empire probably has 2 times that number. So i think SWTOR is doing good and probably had a great retention rate. IMO swtor is here to stay whether you like it or not. And it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Also SWTOR is still the no.1 seller on amazon among non digital box only game.( i am sure it would be no.1 on digital too if you could DL it from amazon.)
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
If the game was good people wouldn't need to defend it so much.
hahaha no one is defending lol. People smack talk it and fans counter attack them. This is nothing new
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
They get their feelings hurt when someone doesn't like their game.
true yet on other games that are good or decent I could go on youtube and watch some fun pvp videos or some nice combat videos or some nice videos of people showing the landscapes and such of a game or how much attention to detail the developers put into their world(or worlds) to make the gamers feel more immersed in the game itself. Yet I don't see any for this game and can't seem to find any.. If i could find all this stuff currently in-game I would make my own but I haven't found it yet...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
and thats exactly when they attack the so called "haters". again nothing new it happens in every game forum. just go to the WoW forums. Still holding what? 10 mil players? and look at its forum on this site lol
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
Good or decent is subjective. What's good for you might not be for others. Billions of beiber fans out there. Are they all wrong? no. none of them are. It's their choice. Same here. Millions and growing subs play TOR, is it a bad game for them? no, is it a bad game for you? yes. What you like/dislike does not reflect what most like/dislike. As a matter of fact you are a minority here
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
if they failed to make an enjoyable game to a mmo addict/star wars fanboy who loves bioware games than I say they failed hardcore in so many ways but I said it before but we can play the whose better at predicting MMO failure/success game in couple months... although looking at the past years the odds are more in my favor:P
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I hear what you are saying and so far the retention rate has been really good after free month. And with the upcoming content patches next month i really don't see this game dropping. I was there at warhammer the zones became dead after 15 days and there were server merges within a month or so. TOR is nowhere near that mark. Odds are not in anyone favor my friend
EDIT: not to mention the game is selling like hotcakes everywhere and it is getting new players everyday
. And good sir please stop passing opinion as a fact a tad less thank you 
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
I hope BW and SWTOR remember the words of Gandhi,
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
where did I say anything about opinion or fact it should be obvious anyones views on here is just opinion... you are the one trying to state opinions as facts.. show me numbers saying this game is thriving and growing.. if not then you are the one passing opinion as fact.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats at peak time a lot of servers are gaining and some server with very small loss. The game is no.1 seller on amazon, no1 selling pc game worldwide http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/40930/USA/, servers are barely losing players
no i think we are doing ok 
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
shard or server status is no indication of population at all you have no clue what the server population numbers are.. you have no clue what light means you have no clue what heavy means.. also all I see here is a huge drop off in sales http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/Global/ so still not seeing any proof this game is exploding and keeping 80% of its players or anything crazy like people are claiming.. so still not seeing facts here
either way I said it many times I feel this game will do just fine for a few months but at 3-6 month mark many players will hit 50 with a couple characters and unless bioware can bust out some serious miracle patches I just don't see people sticking around till years end
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html