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GW2 already impacting other games with removing the Trinity?
Granrey
Member Posts: 53
in Guild Wars 2
Interesting, DCUO on the next update will buff players when a role is missing. In that game there are four roles : dps, healer, tank and controller.
Developers noticed that few players wanted to play healers and tanks. So, if your squad is missing any role an special buff will be given to compensate but still is not easy accoding to developers, you would prefer to have a full squad with each role in it.
So, when pug happens, the system will try to get full squad squad first with each role, then try to make squad with what is available and give according buffs.
I wonder if other games will follow with similar solutions.
Comments
It just seems people complained a lot, and got what they wanted. That problem with the lack of a role is present in every game like that. So, the devs came up with an idea to fix it. GW2 most likely had no influence over it what so ever. They still have all the common rolls in the common trinity, even with common buggs they will still have the common trouble without the common (or uncommon, in this case) monk or tank. Or pickle.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Maybe other SOE games will follow. They're notorious for adding radical changes post-launch. From NGE in SWG, to closing and overhauling entire capitals in EQ2, to removing any death penalties from Vanguard, they always try to make every single one of their games as casual as possible. I can respect appealing to a mass audience (that's what GW2 is doing, after all), but if you've got a niche product then you've got a niche product. Leave it alone. I dread to even look at what they've done to EQ when it goes F2P.
Anyway, this update is just SOE making one of their games even easier in another weird and hacked together way. It has nothing to do with GW2.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I've said it before, but DCUO is a very interesting game for GW2 fans to watch. Many designs and mechanics in GW2 are present in DCUO already, but in an early, under-developed form.
I'm sure GW2 will influence other games a lot and probably already has.
However, a lot of innovations in GW2 work because they are designed to all work in context with the other features and over all design of the game. I think a lot of things that will get copied piecemeal may not translate very well for many developers that decide to borrow stuff with out great talent and care.
Looking at the trinity, Arenanet didn't just decrease it's importance by allowing any profession to make builds for any role. They have actually removed the assumption of the trinity existing in a group of players when designing encounters. When enemy AI and encounters aren't designed for "Tank, Spank and Heal", the encounters themselves become much more dynamic and require players to think on their feet and take responsibility for themselves as well as doing their part for the party.
If some other developer just said, "Hey, we'll just make every class a Hybrid class and allow everyone to tank/DPS or Heal", while still designing encounters around someone tanking, someone doing damage and someone healing, that would be a very pale imitation of what GW2 will be able to offer as a result of designing the game from the ground up to eliminate Trinity based grouping and encounters.
The sort of bandaid approach cited by the OP is an interesting twist, I guess, but it's just using a buff to make groups missing a role more capable of success. They aren't changing the way the mobs act or the way the encounters play out. It's just a concession to more casual gamers, or a way to address population imbalance. They are just making the game easier for those who have trouble fielding a "balanced" party.
Arenanet's approach will make a lot of group encounters much more interesting than we have become used to and more challenging as well, since the game is no longer about finding a niche role and settling into the repetition of that role. To be successful in challenging group encounters, players are going to have to be good at playing many aspects of their class, have the ability to quickly determine the proper tactics for a given encounter and adjust accordingly. They will have to know when and how to help a team mate in trouble, as well as know when they need to take responsibility for keeping themselves alive, rather than relying on a healer to save them as they just hack and slash, oblivious to their status and health total.
I think it's going to be a fun first couple of weeks for us all as we adjust to the many things that are done differently in this game. I have the impression that the game will grant some concessions to old style thinking at the earlier levels, while gradually introducing more avanced mob tactics as we advance, which hopefully will prevent or lessen the frustration that some players are bound to have during the adjustment period.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
TERA and SWTOR scrambling to add public quests. WoW adding non-trinity content.
they're called first person shooters
that hardly applies to mmos, except its action nature.
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I tried it out, and I actually agree. The action-based combat isn't the same as GW2, but it's a lot closer to it than it is to most other MMOs.
A lot of the quests even feel more like events. You even share credit for things pretty well. I noticed that most of the time, though not consistently enough, if there's an interactable with an enemy guarding it and you attack the enemy and somebody else gets the interactable, you still get credit for it, even when ungrouped.
Unfortunately, the objectives are tied to players, meaning that they're still actually quests, instead of tied to a location, which would make them events. The difference is that players move on when their own goals are fulfilled instead of continuing to work together.
It's a shame, too, because the game would have benefited better than most from having an event system in place of the quest one. Batman pops up on the screen, tells you where something is happening, and everyone runs there to stop the bad guys. It would have been great.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I don't see this emulating GW2's design at all. This is more like SWTOR or GW1 which provided companions that could fill a missing role for you. In this case they just buff a player instead, but he or she still has to fill the traditional role.
My understanding is that GW2 combat is nothing like that.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Even in GW2 to do hard content you are going to have to run the Trinity. The removal of Trinity is the removal of any challenging content in the game. This will never happen in an MMO.
However, they did set it up so you can PvP without being stuck with a class that isn't PvP oriented.
But there's no threat system or dedicated healers or tanks so there's no classic holy trinity. You can totally base encounters to be a challenge without relying on the holy trinity.
Yes there is you just don't have to play it all the time.
I don't think it has to do with GW2 at all. Over the years in games I've played with tank/heals/dps set up there was always less tanks and heals, IMO the shortage has gotten worse as the years have gone on. Just seems like it's being addressed here in some capacity.
No there's no healer at all in the game and there's no skill in the whole game that targets an ally directly. The threat system isn't there either mob ai is more intelligent then to just attack a ''tank'' type character. Also you can have challenge based on how well your team can use their abilites together just like how pvp teams distinguish themselves by working together in perfect harmony. Finally some real strategy in PvE instead of pull/heal tank/dps boss down.
No. Holy Trinity is strict, specialized combination of healer, tank and dps, enforced by certain mechanics and set in stone. GW2 doesn't work like that - you have certain roles (control, dps, support), but you can't just pick one for your character and ignore others - in fact, you have to mix all of them and switch between them in the middle of combat to be most effective. That's no Holy Trinity, this is simple role system (or just trinity, if you prefer).
No there really isn't. There are no taunt type abilities, you cannot target allies to try to heal them plus all of the heals are fairly weak by design (except for the self heal). Explain how you would do the trinity from that?
No one has any idea how the lack of the trinity is going to be received by the general gaming community once the "this is new" phase ends. We have all seen things that we all thought we would like or sounded great on paper but when we actually played it was either bad, lack luster or simply not to our liking. I am very sure that for ***some**** the lack of rolls will end up being a big turn off even if they think they like the idea now.
Many players took great pride in being a good tank, a good healer, a good dpser who could play the class better than anyone else. The lack of this could end up being a significant negative long turn. Have to wait and see how it plays out past the new phase.
You lose xp if you die in Vanguard,yes you get most of it back if you collect your tomb but their is still a penalty for dyingGW fanboys are making the removal of the trinity to be like some revolutionary amazing concept. Big deal.
No, we just are excited that they have removed it. No one is claiming it's revolutionary.
Everquest added mercenaries in 2008 which made grouping without a healer or tank a bit easier. Not comparing it to what gw2 is doing, but obviously gw2 was not the cause of this effect.
Even though I cringe when I say it, GW2 is NOT the end all/ begin all when it comes to the holy trinity.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
You mean like in the original GW?
There is no lack of roles. Support, crowd control, damage, etc are all in the game. What was taken out is the ability to be the tank or healer that the rest of the group relied on.
Now people actually have to work together rather than just have a couple of people do most of the work.
I think you missed his point. Hes not comparing an MMO to a FPS hes eluding to the further dumbing down of MMO's, fracturing the community and the need to work together as a team. Company's are bringing simple minded game mechanics to what used to be a model that required many moving and complext pieces to make a party work.