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38 Studios, you are our only hope...
Comaf
Member UncommonPosts: 1,150
THEM
Mmorpgs are mostly created by developers who have spent their undergrad and graduate degree focus on programming, and business applications. Now add them to the corporate investor. This is a person who has either an MBA, a law degree, both, or is someone who grew up with wealth. Neither of these individuals studied history, understand the basics of human psychology, probably drank through their gen eds in their first year of university until they got to the coursework that interested them, i.e., programming and or business admin.
US, the vocal minority
Meanwhile, we, the consumers, read fantasy fiction by the hundreds of lbs annually (George R.R. Martin and Robert Jordan books make up some pretty heavy weight on my shelves). Some of us are from the old school (those who have not left the mmorpg genre completely), and recall our days in EQ, Ultima, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call). We are a vocal minority however, because there isn't one developing company that looks to our needs, interests, and academic capability, i.e., our level of intellectualism in regards to just what type of mmorpg we would enjoy.
The issue with the genre
Hence it's all easy quest, 2 faction mmorpgs where soloing to end game is the norm if not the expectation since even classes themselves are built for the independent player, i.e., the player who has little interest or capability in grouping with others. Mirrored classes save arguments between the smaller minded consumer and the overworked developer. Basic gratification through familiar entities that remind us of American football, i.e., capture the flag and Huttball, along with red vs blue team pvp in instanced environments where no one but us benefits (I mean, who really cares how xyz guild is doing in pvp these days, the maps will stay the same and your guild will never benefit from your own faction's victories).
The genre died when WoW made a billion dollars a year. Every dev tried to copy this as the cut and paste corporate model of success in the same way the Ford assembly line changed production during American's industrial revolution.
A New Hope
Keep your eyes on 38 Studios (previously, Green Monster Games), however. They are following the Blizzard format of success (i.e., create a very good RPG before you use that same world for an mmorpg). Here you have Tod McFarland on art, R.A. Salvatore on writing (if you don't know this author than you might want to look at the Drizzt Do'urden/Forgotten Realms novels [20 years of product to sift through at your leisure]).
Point is, we have an able company here that will most likely rewrite the corporate model. People will see this company's mmorpg arguably by around 2015-2017. I am guessing these folks are the Messiah of the industry that a pariah people, namely, the better educated consumers of this market, have been waiting for to lead us out of the wilderness of mediocrity.
One can only hope.
Comments
Well, that's what Bioware did too with KOTOR (although KOTOR 2 was handed off). EDIT: Blizzard's Warcraft was a RTS to get technical.
I have more hope for 38 studios because of Kurt Shilling being an EQ player. Of course McFarlane and Salvatore rule too.
_____________________________
"Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"
There are so many levels of arrogance and delusion to this post...but let's skip that.
Do you think a (wannabe) powerhouse company run by Curt Schilling, RA Salvatore and Todd McFarlane is going to raise boatloads of money to make a game that will appeal to...in your words..."a vocal minority".
Well after running through the trail for their offering that is the precursor of 38 studios mmorpg, I got to say "OUCH" I know its all about lore setting but honestly its art direction and its feel as you play, really? How did they take that pool of talent and end up with that.
38 Studios is going to do really well. I can't wait to play the full release of Reckoning.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Yes dreaming is our only hope now.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
The primary mover and shaker of 38 Studios put 35 million dollars of his own personal money into the company. He's not going to risk that on a vocal minority. The only thing that might happen is a game that the vocal minority likes, but at the same time has a broad appeal.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Having played the Kingdoms of Amalur demo, i think 38 will make a good attempt at an mmo.
Unlike a lot of others i had no problems with the demo and really enjoyed playing the game....even though the demo was made from code that is about 3 months behind the release code.
Played a demo of KOA and was loving it. This game will keep my attention for quite some time. Thank god for that seeing the current crop of MMOs is a bunch of trash. I have been watching 38 for some time and I am HOPEFUL for there success. They seem to be doin things right... for now.
Those 3 have MUCH influence and i belive they can get almost anything done. They have such a huge fan base in there respective fields, that i can see them succeeding on that alone. I think that have what it takes to change the look and feel of this genre. Take it away from the current Theampark model and usher in something a little more meaty. Only time will tell though.
Hell they could completly fuck up there game and be a laughing stock or just another Theampark in the forest of Theamparks. Lets hops thats not the case.
have nothing to back it up with but I bet you the MMO version of kingdoms of Amaleur will be mainly solo questing to max level, if you believe anything else, well....
not saying this one is going to be a bad game, but would be suprised if it is not a singleplayer level up, kill big bad bosses in diiffrent amount of groups, and instanced PvP, gear/title shower....and what else you can think of defining a WoW clone
liked afew things in their singleplayer game, that hopefully will carry over in their MMO....but imo if you expect a sandbox title in this you are setting yoourself up for a disappointment, will stick to that untill they come out with more info about their MMO saying otherwise
I played the demo and I am looking forward to the release of the game, but I don't think their MMO will be any different than what's on the market. Schilling may have played EQ but it's my understanding that he's a big WoW fan and if you look at this game, in reality it's not an open world/sand box game, it basically plays like Fable mixed with WoW with some Elder Scrolls like features thrown in for good measure.
I'm completely fine with that, I am alright with themepark RPG's/MMO's.I don't see any reason to believe that the MMO will be any different... With that said, my brother played the demo and was unimpressed with the 'cartoony' graphics, and he doesn't play MMO's. I informed him that what I played on my PC, radeonpro showed the game is direct X9, I don't know if that's just for the demo but the character models do look like a slightly improved WoW model, the world looks great but neither look as good as they should be if done in direct X 10 or 11.
Enough nitpicking though, I will buy this game in February, but we'll have to wait and see about the MMO.
'Copernicus' has been shuffling around the top 3 on my radar for almost 5 years now (ArchArge and Pathfinder holding the other 2 slots as an alternative to the endless WoW clone template).
I played the demo of the single player 'prelude' to the MMO, but aside from lore it's hard to see how well that would translate well into an MMO. I was unfortunately a bit underwhelmed, but in a post Skyrim market, single player games really need to be amazing to get my attention - I've had a hard time diving into them since EQ, the original MMO that sucked me in anyway I admit.
I had high hopes based on Curt Schillings gaming background (EQ, EQ2, something about a clause in his Baseball contract regarding ensuring there was interentet so he could raid?) but an off the cuff comment made recently, something about 'Hardcore, casual, I don't care about any of that anymore, I just want something fun'. While not an exact quote, it crushed my hopes of an immersive gigantic old school MMO (which was only ever a hope anyway) and replaced it with a multiplayer version of reckoning.
Which would be OK, 'fun' is a great goal afterall, but I found the combat wasn't as fun as it looked, the controls were a bit off, the text choices seemed to be made up of one realistic option and 2 absurd comments no one would ever really pick, the running animations/sceptre animations were actually laughable and most of all the statement seemed to say to me they'd fall back on the old defense against innovation 'if it's not broken, don't fix it'. But that could just be me.
Without specific details on the MMO itself, it's obviously way too soon to judge, but for now Copernicus has been knocked down to slot 2 or maybe even 3 (details on Pathfinder have so far all hit the exact right spot for me) in my top 3 instead of a steady number 1.
To sum up, it might end up being fun, I can only hope, but I don't think it will stray far enough from the WoW model to really be 'the one' I've been waiting for. I sincerely hope I'm wrong though. and I would really love to be surprised, especially as despite the mechanical flaws of the single player prelude (which admittedly is a poor way to gauge an unreleased MMO version based on in the same world), the world certainly had a very nice flavor.
Calling 3 powerhouses "wannabe powerhouses" is funny lol.
After playing KOA - I doubt it.
KOA is not bad , it is just nothing special.
Very mainstream, quite generic ,streamlined action rpg.
Cookie cutter lore and story.
For me it just scream average.
If I would have to judge Copernicus from KOA demo, then Copernicus will be streamlined, mainsteam, casual mmo.
Solid but not revolutionary or exceptional.
Seriously I am not holding my breath, actually I am very sceptical.
Oh and one more thing.
38 is basically EA , I very much doubt they will create game that cater to so called 'vocal miniority'.
stopped reading after: "They are following the Blizzard format"
Next please.
I'd raised some concerns on the official forums after seeing the demo, and it was explained to me that the material in the demo was 'cut out' of the full game by a 3rd party, which brought in some unintended bugs, and that the demo we're seeing is over 3 months old.
I'll likely still give it a try as I want to see more of the world, and I hope I'm pleasaently surprised to find my concerns have since been taken care of in the release build. We'll have to wait and see.
Well from what i understand, KOA was purchesed from another co that was intended to be a MMO. But was changed to its curent form. Copernicus is independent from KOA.
I don't really see 38 Studio's as anyones "only hope" related to MMO's. There are a few games going off the "golden path" that could be pretty good... or may be crap.
I followed 38 Studio's for a while but really don't anymore. *clarity edit* Some companies I stalk their website etc for Info. I only read about 38 Studio's in news blurbs on gaming sites but I am interested in their MMO when more information becomes available. **end edit*
Yep played the demo and really like it.. was thinking about ordering because it comes out close to my birthday... after the demo I put the order in. So I like the demo alright and its a nice break not having to watch general trash talk or ignore people. I haven't played many single player games to be honest since UO came out back in 1997...
I have no clue what their MMO will be like in regards to this game introducing us to the world. I like a lot of things in the demo..
What I find semi ironic is... beyond the 3 big names (all of whom were known to play EQ among other games) most of the developers I know by name that they hired... were from SOE... to me that's not a bad thing by default but a lot of people don't like SOE. (some rational some not). Personally the ones from EQ2 that left to work for 38 Studios were the ones I liked so I guess that a positive from my point of view.
Mostly what impresses me with 38 Studios is that Schilling went out and got the funding. When someone has that much personally riding on the success of their company... I would hope the crap factor is much lower than someone who sells out to a corporation because they aren't willing to raise the funds or can't convince anyone to back them.
Along with the fact that they can't absorb a loss .. like a giant corporation could.. so their incentive for success has to be very high.
Yeah, this.
Sure, Curt Schilling is a gamer and a fan of the genre and he's got big names attached to KOA, but after putting in his own money he realized he needed more funding than he could provide. Enter EA. They're just as much a part of 38 Studios as Curt is, since they're his publisher and they're footing some of the bills.
Really appreciated the OP's write up but I must say that I think you're betting on the wrong horse. Personally, as with many other posters, I feel this game will be a traditional themepark with a few unique additions but nothing to really break the current mold. Hopefully, I am 100% wrong but having seen the demo I highly doubt it.
I will say this: It's smart for an MMO company (or any gaming company) to hire those who can actually tell stories (if you're going to make a themepark MMO that is). Hiring programmers and expecting them to write the stories (or programmers who think they can write stories) is like hiring a camera operator to shoot your movie while also expecting them to write a screenplay for it. I mean that sounds ludicrous, right? So why do we give game developers a pass when they think they can also write?
Same goes for game mechanics....game companies should hire people who have studied game theory and who have designed successful game mechanics. Not hire programmers and expect them also to be able to design a game system.
Hes mostly right about everything in his post, it obviously pains you for some reason, but its cool.
His main point is that the TYPE of person that enjoys deep fantasy, sci-fi, RPG, immersive story enviornments are the not the people making our games, His point is valid and accurate. There was a time when that guy coud learn to program and make that game. Those days are gone for reasons I dont have to explain and we are now getting what we are getting, business franchise mmo's, yes for the most part wall street is making your next BIG MMO.
We do have to look for the smaller developers to somehow pull it off wihout the 250 million dollar warchest.
A powerhouse MLB pitcher, author and artist do not make a powerhouse gaming company. They have to put something out, and given the money sunk into it (and the brouhaha of relocating out of MA for a more tax-friendly location), they're going to make a game that sells....not something catered to the minority as the OP hopes.
His point isn't valid or accurate. It's load of fluff to which I refer you to my first sentence..."so many levels of arrogance and delusion". No pain, honest.
Well, I have hope, but thats it for their mmo...
I have a decent list, but I cannot say I am going to love any of it....
Next up for me is probably TSW/GW2.
It is nice to see some hybrids in development and coming out though, would now love to see the instanced dungeons cut in half and some open world dungeons being brought back.