nor have your emails sent directly to your datapad
nor even socialization
It was... CHOICE!
You had the choice to play the way you wanted to.
You had the choice to kill things like a Nightsister on rampage, or never ever lift a weapon but to put it on sale with a colorized self chosen item name
You had the choice to play your character, not a character on rails from your space ship down to your shirt color.
Yeah it has bugs past redemption and a clueless SoE & LA management, but it was that great. One of the very few MMO world in which even a moisture farmer is respected and needed by others players. I have been spoiled. I will never ever watch a Tatooine sunsrise with a warm feeling anymore... for a long time!
let me start by saying im a huge SWG fan. i dont think it is fair to compare TOR as a SWG 2.0. it never was supposed to be. it is fair to compare SWG and TOR if you are trying to figure out if you want to play TOR. TOR is its own game and if you enjoy it im glad that you do. I wish TOR all the success it can get. i do think there are plenty of us who would love to play SWG 2.0 and i hope someday maybe we will get the chance (though i doubt it will ever happen).
I have heard ( and i dont know much about this title ) that http://www.therepopulation.com/ wil be the "spiritual successor to swg" many of the same coveted SWG features are supposed to be there.
however I have no idea where they are in development or even who they are currently. Worth a look if you are interested in that type of game.
thanks for the link i did see this and it seems interesting will keep an eye on it.
nor have your emails sent directly to your datapad
nor even socialization
It was... CHOICE!
You had the choice to play the way you wanted to you.
You had the choice to kill things like a Nightsister on rampage, or never ever lift a weapon but to put it on sale with a colorized self chosen item name
You had the choice to play your character, not a character on rails from your space ship down to your shirt color.
Yeah it has bugs past redemption and a clueless SoE & LA management, but it was that great. One of the very few MMO world in which even a moisture farmer is respected and needed by others players. I have been spoiled. I will never ever watch a Tatooine sunsrise with a warm feeling anymore... for a long time!
sad thing is, is many feel choice is not a feature of a themepark MMO and they are so wrong.. choice in a themepark mmo is the sign of a good thempark mmo
Right, so even though you can choose to ignore Skyrim's main questline and do what you want, makes it a themepark.
R
Well what do you mean by "do what you want"? IF by do the same thing you'd basically be doing while questing then yes you can. The only things that really set TES apart from traditional MMO's is it's criminal systems, theft, assasination, etc.. that and the fact everything harvestable is harvestable.
Overall though you have the same limitations you find in most traditional MMO's, the game is designed to be played a certain way. You can't really be a creator outside of selected items and potions, there's not much to uniqueness when it comes to crafting either.
I'm probably one of the biggest TES fanboi's around here, yet I can't see all of these choices people seemingly make up (in their head) ironic that it's always done when they're trying to put down another game.
TES has core primary functions and it doesn't deviate really at all from them, Combat, Theft, Exploration, Loot hunting and Lore. There aren't even any mini games like you'd find in other games, gambling etc...
SWG actually had a lot more options than a TES game. A lot more.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In a few months Bioware is going to be hoping they retain 375k subs. If they do not get their act together, and fast, start adding the critical things players are most asking for and addressing certain things like the high res textures, poor performance, customizable UI, guild tools, and combat response time(and a whole slew of other issues that I do not have time to list) - they will wish they had 375k paying subs.
I disagree. Bioware could implement all that you have said better than any other developer has, and it really won't effect player loss that much. Most of the players seem to be having problems with the main design philosophy of the game, not its individual features.
Look, Rift has everything going for it in terms of features and they're implemented quite wel and still many won't play it. Ultimately a game is all about hooks, and UI, guild tools and high res textures are not hooks; SWTOR seems to be lacking the hooks once the storyline is done.
In a few months Bioware is going to be hoping they retain 375k subs. If they do not get their act together, and fast, start adding the critical things players are most asking for and addressing certain things like the high res textures, poor performance, customizable UI, guild tools, and combat response time(and a whole slew of other issues that I do not have time to list) - they will wish they had 375k paying subs.
I disagree. Bioware could implement all that you have said better than any other developer has, and it really won't effect player loss that much. Most of the players seem to be having problems with the main design philosophy of the game, not its individual features.
Look, Rift has everything going for it in terms of features and they're implemented quite wel and still many won't play it. Ultimately a game is all about hooks, and UI, guild tools and high res textures are not hooks; SWTOR seems to be lacking the hooks once the storyline is done.
I really believe its the combat.. the abilities are stale the skill trees are a joke and the classes are so basic its not even funny.. I now have a level 15+ of evey single advanced class and can't find any fun aside from the story in playing anymore.. theres just really no interesting skills it all plays the same nothing to spice things up.. talents trees are such a joke might as well not even have then... its sad to cause the rest of the game honestly for the most part works pretty well for me but I just can't get past the combal/classes and this makes up a HUGE portion of the game as a whole.
the whole rift soul system had me hooked for months.. all the combos all the roles.. you could go 10 levels then respec to something completely differn't kept things fresh and interesting... in the end once you hit endgame it was to much of the same but till then at least they had that...
In a few months Bioware is going to be hoping they retain 375k subs. If they do not get their act together, and fast, start adding the critical things players are most asking for and addressing certain things like the high res textures, poor performance, customizable UI, guild tools, and combat response time(and a whole slew of other issues that I do not have time to list) - they will wish they had 375k paying subs.
I disagree. Bioware could implement all that you have said better than any other developer has, and it really won't effect player loss that much. Most of the players seem to be having problems with the main design philosophy of the game, not its individual features.
Look, Rift has everything going for it in terms of features and they're implemented quite wel and still many won't play it. Ultimately a game is all about hooks, and UI, guild tools and high res textures are not hooks; SWTOR seems to be lacking the hooks once the storyline is done.
I really believe its the combat.. the abilities are stale the skill trees are a joke and the classes are so basic its not even funny.. I now have a level 15+ of evey single advanced class and can't find any fun aside from the story in playing anymore.. theres just really no interesting skills it all plays the same nothing to spice things up.. talents trees are such a joke might as well not even have then... its sad to cause the rest of the game honestly for the most part works pretty well for me but I just can't get past the combal/classes and this makes up a HUGE portion of the game as a whole.
the whole rift soul system had me hooked for months.. all the combos all the roles.. you could go 10 levels then respec to something completely differn't kept things fresh and interesting... in the end once you hit endgame it was to much of the same but till then at least they had that...
Yeah, the combat ability system is indeed quite hackneyed. Though that's my pet peeve with pretty much all MMOs, almost none has fun combat. And the "magic" is often so un-magical; a mage is practically an "elemental archer" in most games. You know how the Sith Inquisitor opens up the holocron by "just shooting lightning at it"? Well, I guess that's Bioware's answer to how MMOs work. :P
Also, I just find it lacklustre that they've gone with mirror-classes. When you play an Imperial Agent and then a Smuggler, even if you go with different ACs, it doesn't feel distinctive enough for me.
I think the need for balance is what's making MMO combat so dull. We seldom have really "out there" abilities.
When are you going to get you are not part of a market worth catering too. Mainly because it's so small
Truer words were never said. I understand that people of the more sandboxy crafting and selling persuasion want a game to play, but truth be told, you will never make a company a profit. My suggestion is to find one you can deal with and try to live with it OR just quit gaming. I really hope you go for the former instead of the later though.
Lol.
Theres a single player game that has all of the making of a sandbox...you may have heard of it...
Skyrim?
7 million copies sold.
Oh yeah, and thats with torrenting/pirating.
The "Theres no market for sandbox" is a myth. The reason why companies arent making sandbox MMO's is because of the success of WoW, plain and simple. The ultimate irony, being that when players leave WoW they want a different experience, not the same one.
Theres also another sandbox game - its F2P you may have heard of it - called Runescape, and is one of the most successful MMO's of all time.
You forgot about this sandbox game as well.....
Minecraft Hits 20 Million Registered Users
If you're a card-carrying Minecraft player, consider yourself in good company. Markus Persson, the game's mastermind (better known by his online handle, Notch), tweeted that the blocky sandbox game has hit a significant milestone: 20 million registered users.
His first tweet was relatively mild, saying "Minecraft now has 20 million registered users. At 70 kg each, that's 25% of the weight of the Great Pyramid of Giza." He followed it up with a slightly disturbing conversion. "At 4 liters per day, it would take a million years to drink 20 million liquidized humans. Just saying. I'll stop now."
Those registrations didn't all translate to paid users, which Notch noted in a similarly tongue-in-cheek stat. "23.23% also bought the game. Extrapolating, we find that 76.77% of the internet will register for things they don't want."
That's more than 4.6 million paid copies, if you don't feel like crunching the numbers yourself.
Theres a single player game that has all of the making of a sandbox...you may have heard of it...
Skyrim?
7 million copies sold.
Oh yeah, and thats with torrenting/pirating.
The "Theres no market for sandbox" is a myth. The reason why companies arent making sandbox MMO's is because of the success of WoW, plain and simple. The ultimate irony, being that when players leave WoW they want a different experience, not the same one.
Theres also another sandbox game - its F2P you may have heard of it - called Runescape, and is one of the most successful MMO's of all time.
It's kind of an odd comparison to reference a singleplayer game that is released on console as well. I mean, MW3 sold like 10+ million copies, this doesn't mean that an MMOFPS will automatically reach million+ players. People simply love good games that they're having a great fun time in.
As for sandbox MMO's, I think there's a reason why the themepark or game oriented design gained so much more popularity than the best of sandbox oriented design. Even after WoW, themepark oriented MMO's scored huge numbers of players, many of them even played those games after the first months. In my opinion, a purely sandbox focused design as well as a purely themepark focused design are both wrong, but the latter one appeals to more people than the former one by nature. The best design imo is where an MMO combines both sandbox and themepark focused gameplay elements.
I agree with most of what you said but I still think it was way better how SWG handles Jedi's than how they are handled in this game. There atleast you have to do something to be able to become a Jedi, here every Joe Schmoe can become one which dillutes the whole concept of a Jedi or Sith. They are supposed to be the elite of the elite which means they are relatively rare, compared to other professions. However in this game I can bet that atleast half of the population is either Jedi or Sith.
The way SWG implemented Jedi was a complete disgrace. They put it behind a massive and idiotic grind that destroyed immersion and any RP aspects your character acquired.
So what did you prefer ? Or which way would you have it ?
my take:
SWG did jedi the way they did early because of the LORE. One thing about NGE that really ticked poeple off is they abandoned the LORE of the time, making well less "STAR WARS"
Jedi are fine in the SW Old Republic beacuse there were a plethora of them, so "selecting jedi" makes sense in SWTOR not in SWG.
I saw nothing lore-based about the way SWG added Jedi. What really happened was that they were losing customers due to lack of content and they decided to give the players the option to be Jedi simply to keep subscriptions. However, SOE did not want to put a lot of resources into making becoming Jedi lore-based so instead they just had you grind and then abandom every profession in the game. When they finally replaced that with the Jedi village it was more lore-based but still a pointless grind.
Even with that system there were a lot of Jedi in the game so even that part was not true to the lore.
The simple fact was that Jedi were not a good fit for the world of SWG and SOE shoe-horned them in as a means of keeping subscriptions. In exchange they sacrificed a lot of the RP and immersion elements the early game fostered.
So what would be a better way ? make it so everyone can have one ? I assume you don't want that because you comment on there being too many of them... how do you make this class rare ( which it should be ) without the grind ?
The pie in the sky MMO for me is a hybrid... but one that does both ends well.
Here is an example:
Best leveling i have ever seen: WoW no question, #2 RIFT and a close 2
Best end game(s) - 1. SWG ( pvp, bounty hunting, base control, crafting, housing etc ) 2. Eq2 ( TOS ) pvp server raiding/
Honestly after what we have seen over the last 8-9 years... MMO features seem more like this:
How can we get "game other than classic RPG" or "game that typically is released on consoles" into an MMO $$ model
rather than
How can we expand on what has been done in the MMo space thus far.
========
Here lies my hope for SWTOR ... I feel that sandboxy elements where there are tools ( features ) put into the game to promote community "movement" and "interaction" can keep people long term... while the themepark, storyline leveling process can get people in and to level cap...
I just dont' see what themeparks offer at level cap anymore other than a lobby and dungeon finder... maybe sandoxy features do that ?
OP nobody expected SWG 2.0 because we knew what was coming and how the game was different from SWG...
and answering your last question, some ppl may be disappointed but many are still having a blast. Im enjoying it and the similarities to WoW are few of the reasons ill stay subbed and the few differences are enough to stay here for a while.
if you like the game, have fun. If not, move on...
This game is way to limited to be considered a true mmo. This is nothing more than a console style rpg and nothing more. Doesnt even have half the features other mmo's offer. Sorry, i want ot love TOR, i miss SWG, and i just want a good epic mmo. TOR is not epic, i never played WOW, im not a fan boy or a troll. Just stating the truth, if you guys like limits, confined games, lack of innovation, and a console kiddie rpg with tons of eye candy instead a real mmo, by all means enjoy your game. But as a real gamer, i expected much more.
Back to rift or something different until Archeage comes out
BTW these are my opinions, dont care if you agree or not, thats why they are opinions. We all have one, be civil. But seriously, deep down in your heart you realy think TOR is an epic mmo?
ToR is more "theme parky" than WoW every was, there is litterly not a single thing you can do in the game which was not designed by the developers, heck WoW atleast in the ol' days had loads of exploring to do :P espcially the "illegal" kind, like the end of the earth, troll village, GM island, the underwater part of the tram, the airfield, the top of BRM, and many other places...
ToR has nothing of that, yeah there is some "exploring" to do but every peace was put there by the devs and honestly there is nothing to really to explore even legaly, WoW from that point had much more content and during vanilla it was much more exited, they tomb of a blizz employee in the barrens, the statue in duskwood, the "secrete" cove in tanaris, side streets in SW, ashzara and just about every where... the thing i've most hated about cata is that they removed every peace of "uneeded" or "unused" or "were not going there / doing that sorry" peace of realestate in the game and put a very painfully hand crafted quest hub...
I miss the old WoW where quests were miles apart and you could wonder and see somthing cool or find some stupid rare mob, or jsut a dead end that dev's didnt got to finish yet. some how that made the game feel more realistic and cooler...
Ahh went on a side note there, so yeah i don't really know how any one could have tought that ToR would be SWG any thing :P
WoW is the dumbed down version of EQ II ; SWTOR is the dumbed down version of WoW.
WoW is a dumded down version of EQ2, not really, EQ2 wasn't any good at any thing, not to mention it came out after wow :P
EQII > WoW, by far. And at least in europe EQII was released before WoW.
OP nobody expected SWG 2.0 because we knew what was coming and how the game was different from SWG...
and answering your last question, some ppl may be disappointed but many are still having a blast. Im enjoying it and the similarities to WoW are few of the reasons ill stay subbed and the few differences are enough to stay here for a while.
if you like the game, have fun. If not, move on...
Agreed 100%. You know what the best thing about this not being SWG 2.0 is though? It is not ANOTHER crappy game made by SOE that never gets fixed or even really worked on much. That company has just burned too many bridges for me now. Won't even buy their garbage anymore.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Didn't like this game, social aspect was completely missing as the poster said.
Very solo friendly and I guess thats the problem, without fear of whats out there and no consequence of dying (other than a few coin), why make duos, groups etc.
Wasn't really a game for me and cancelled my subscription.
Sure others will enjoy it.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I'm a SWG vet who lost his Master Creature Handler to the effed up decisions made by SOE.
Having said that, ToR feels more like Star Wars than SWG ever did...by a factor of ten. After having been blown away by Coruscant, I didn't think I could be more impressed with the world. That is until I reached Nar Shadaa. I was quite stunned by how amazing that planet is so far. It looks and feels so cool. I was in fact reminded of SWG's pathetic attempt to capture anything Star Wars and failing. Yeah...SWG got some creatures right...some 'classes' right. But I never felt like I was in Star Wars universe.
As for Socializing...I see tons of Socializing in the game. I have no idea what the OP is talking about. Dozens of calls to run Esseles and other Heorics/Flashpoints all night long.
But no...the game doesn't force you to group or socialize. Which is fine by me, because quite frankly, most of you suck. I mean, when I read the post on this forum, I know that I'd never want to group with 90% of you. You're all a bunch of bitter, whiney, complainers.
I wonder what it was with SWG that made people batshit crazy. It wasn't even that popular. How many subs did it have when it was on top ? 200k?
Your statement is out of context and has no frame of reference. There was actually a time when SWG was hugely popular and in a time when 300,000 subscriptions was considered a smash hit.
Only since WoW with it's OMGBAGILLION subscriptions has 300,000 seemed insignificant, and the only reason that happend is because Blizzard made an MMO for non-MMO gamers.
Theres a single player game that has all of the making of a sandbox...you may have heard of it...
Skyrim?
7 million copies sold.
Oh yeah, and thats with torrenting/pirating.
The "Theres no market for sandbox" is a myth. The reason why companies arent making sandbox MMO's is because of the success of WoW, plain and simple. The ultimate irony, being that when players leave WoW they want a different experience, not the same one.
More on this:
Understand though, that I am not an advocate for World of Warcraft, its mention in these statements is to provide context and historical reference.
Blizzard cornered the market when they released World of Warcraft, and they were able to do this because for the first someone created an MMO for non-MMO fans. They took what was perceived to be the best parts of single-player experiences and likewise from the previous generation of MMORPGs and melded them together. However, what they failed to realize is that just like single-player experiences, these games have finite longevity. Eventually players will grow tired of continuously repeating the same content. The slow loss of subscribers that World of Warcraft is experiencing is proof of this.
However, this eventuality has not yet reached the board rooms of developers, publishers, and investment groups. What is really happening is stagnation, which exists because of two problems. Firstly, developers are not sure what the market demand actually is; they are confused. It was assumed for quite some time that the market wanted Warcraft style themeparks. However this cannot be the case since every attempt has failed to reach World of Warcraft’s subscription levels. While the game might be fine on its surface, because it failed to reach those numbers, it is seen as a failure in the eyes of the industry, investors, and other developers. Secondly, they are confused because the majority of players who initially flock to these new themeparks eventually return to World of Warcraft, so it appears that the Warcraft style themeparks holds sway, when it fact it really doesn’t. World of Warcraft alone holds sway, and it is an anomaly in the history of the MMO, and no future MMO will ever garner the subscription numbers that it had at its peak.
Now, SWTOR’s potential failure (failure as in not attaining Warcraft level subscription numbers) could trigger a reassessment of the market demographic and its tendencies. It could also trigger the emergence of an innovative developer which moves away from the Clone Syndrome, due to the realization of market dynamics.
Theres a single player game that has all of the making of a sandbox...you may have heard of it...
Skyrim?
7 million copies sold.
Oh yeah, and thats with torrenting/pirating.
The "Theres no market for sandbox" is a myth. The reason why companies arent making sandbox MMO's is because of the success of WoW, plain and simple. The ultimate irony, being that when players leave WoW they want a different experience, not the same one.
More on this:
Understand though, that I am not an advocate for World of Warcraft, its mention in these statements is to provide context and historical reference.
Blizzard cornered the market when they released World of Warcraft, and they were able to do this because for the first someone created an MMO for non-MMO fans. They took what was perceived to be the best parts of single-player experiences and likewise from the previous generation of MMORPGs and melded them together. However, what they failed to realize is that just like single-player experiences, these games have finite longevity. Eventually players will grow tired of continuously repeating the same content. The slow loss of subscribers that World of Warcraft is experiencing is proof of this.
However, this eventuality has not yet reached the board rooms of developers, publishers, and investment groups. What is really happening is stagnation, which exists because of two problems. Firstly, developers are not sure what the market demand actually is; they are confused. It was assumed for quite some time that the market wanted Warcraft style themeparks. However this cannot be the case since every attempt has failed to reach World of Warcraft’s subscription levels. While the game might be fine on its surface, because it failed to reach those numbers, it is seen as a failure in the eyes of the industry, investors, and other developers. Secondly, they are confused because the majority of players who initially flock to these new themeparks eventually return to World of Warcraft, so it appears that the Warcraft style themeparks holds sway, when it fact it really doesn’t. World of Warcraft alone holds sway, and it is an anomaly in the history of the MMO, and no future MMO will ever garner the subscription numbers that it had at its peak.
Now, SWTOR’s potential failure (failure as in not attaining Warcraft level subscription numbers) could trigger a reassessment of the market demographic and its tendencies. It could also trigger the emergence of an innovative developer which moves away from the Clone Syndrome, due to the realization of market dynamics.
Yep I agree. The fact that games have been out for what, 40 years now? Its still a pretty young industry. Throw in MMO's, which have only been out for a little over a decade now - and you pretty much have a brand new market. Board room suits are still figuring out how the market works and shifts.
I feel people here give these board room suits too much credit. AAA after AAA themepark comes out and fails repeatedly in the eyes of the industry. Look how much money was sunk into TOR - this was not a petty investment.
In reality, the suits know probably as much as we do, as players. They see us as a market, but the market isnt reacting the way they wanted it to. TOR sold what? 2 million, 2.5million max? And you have innovative games like Minecraft running on 32 bit graphics selling 20 million. Anyone see something a little odd here?
And you have Bioware having the audacity saying, "This is how MMO's work, this is the premiere design for all MMOs. We have it all figured out." Clearly, you dont. You dont.
I agree with your assessment royal, I hope swtor fails ( but is still viable for the fans of the game) so it does indeed finally highlight the folly of trying to tailor a game to an existing Market instead of developing a game with integrity and vision.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
While I don't hope SWTOR will fail, it is certainly a possibility. If you create a hugely expensive game like this, you run the risk of leaving the biggest hole ever in EA pockets. The chance it won't ever attain WoW-like subscription numbers is starting to look like it's bordering on certainty. It won't necessarily be a failure if it doesn't match WoW sub numbers. It will be a failure if it doesn't at least break even.
Look, people, step away from the Echo chamber. SWTOR is NOT going to fail, no matter how much a few posters on here post that it is or will.
With a million subs, they make back their investment his year. With a mere 500k subs, they make their money back next year. For a business investment, that is quite good. Box and digital sales have already paid back a large percentage of that investment.
The reality is that SWTOR is, and will be, successful. And I'm not even a fanboy.
Haven't tried WOW 2.0. But I have been playing TOR and it's a hundred times more fun to me than SWG ever was. You couldn't pay me enough to play a reskinned version of that POS. The players like myself weren't stating a dislike for SWG because of any "hype" bug. It was based on genuine dislike for the game based on actual experience. I know this a difficult concept for you SWG fans, but there was many that played it who didn't like it and have no interest in playing it again. You had your game and now we have ours.
Tor isn't perfect, but then again I don't base what game I'm playing on a checklist or in comparison to other games. I base it on how much fun I am having and right now I'm having more fun than I ever had in SWG, which to me was the worse Star Wars game ever. Sorry, but groupinng up to kill the same mobs over and over again isn't my idea of fun. Neither is not being able to play my class because it doesn't work or being a smuggler who can't smuggle or a commando who can't blow stuff up because his skill tree is gimped. I also don't miss alpha class jedi pawning everything in existence.
Far as friends go, I'm having NO problem finding friends in this game. If you are playing it, which I seriouisly doubt based on your post history, you would have no problem finding them. Here's a tip, they don't hang around cantinas gawking at dancers or chatting up in a guild hall about the latest house they decorated. They are out in the field completing missions and group content. You see for many of us, a game needs to have more than just the ability to socialize. I already have facebook and twitter for that, both of which doesn't cost a sub fee.
Now that I've answered your question, answer mine...How much fun are you having with whatever game you are currently playing? Or are you one of those people whose version of gameplay is to complain about every new game not being SWG 2.0?
^
What he said
I am having allot of fun. I enjoy the story line and cut scenes. I watch every cut scene. This brings me into the game and makes me feel a part of the story. Take your time, enjoy the story and by all means, don't rush to level cap.
Both my Sons are playing with me, the difference between my playing and theirs, is that they spacebar through the story and are running to end game. Still, they are enjoying it. This is a very well made game. When I saw the requirements of 30 gigs of space needed....that blew me away. Now I see why.
Comments
SWG best feature wasn't
crafting
nor PvPing (Bounty hunters, Anchorhead)
nor custom classes
nor (Pre-CU) level less
nor 20 players groups
nor Image designer
nor non-combattant classes
nor player made economy
nor housing/player cities
nor house furnishing
nor space combat
nor customizable space ships
nor animal based pet classes
nor social hubs
nor have your emails sent directly to your datapad
nor even socialization
It was... CHOICE!
You had the choice to play the way you wanted to.
You had the choice to kill things like a Nightsister on rampage, or never ever lift a weapon but to put it on sale with a colorized self chosen item name
You had the choice to play your character, not a character on rails from your space ship down to your shirt color.
Yeah it has bugs past redemption and a clueless SoE & LA management, but it was that great. One of the very few MMO world in which even a moisture farmer is respected and needed by others players. I have been spoiled. I will never ever watch a Tatooine sunsrise with a warm feeling anymore... for a long time!
thanks for the link i did see this and it seems interesting will keep an eye on it.
sad thing is, is many feel choice is not a feature of a themepark MMO and they are so wrong.. choice in a themepark mmo is the sign of a good thempark mmo
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Well what do you mean by "do what you want"? IF by do the same thing you'd basically be doing while questing then yes you can. The only things that really set TES apart from traditional MMO's is it's criminal systems, theft, assasination, etc.. that and the fact everything harvestable is harvestable.
Overall though you have the same limitations you find in most traditional MMO's, the game is designed to be played a certain way. You can't really be a creator outside of selected items and potions, there's not much to uniqueness when it comes to crafting either.
I'm probably one of the biggest TES fanboi's around here, yet I can't see all of these choices people seemingly make up (in their head) ironic that it's always done when they're trying to put down another game.
TES has core primary functions and it doesn't deviate really at all from them, Combat, Theft, Exploration, Loot hunting and Lore. There aren't even any mini games like you'd find in other games, gambling etc...
SWG actually had a lot more options than a TES game. A lot more.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I disagree. Bioware could implement all that you have said better than any other developer has, and it really won't effect player loss that much. Most of the players seem to be having problems with the main design philosophy of the game, not its individual features.
Look, Rift has everything going for it in terms of features and they're implemented quite wel and still many won't play it. Ultimately a game is all about hooks, and UI, guild tools and high res textures are not hooks; SWTOR seems to be lacking the hooks once the storyline is done.
I really believe its the combat.. the abilities are stale the skill trees are a joke and the classes are so basic its not even funny.. I now have a level 15+ of evey single advanced class and can't find any fun aside from the story in playing anymore.. theres just really no interesting skills it all plays the same nothing to spice things up.. talents trees are such a joke might as well not even have then... its sad to cause the rest of the game honestly for the most part works pretty well for me but I just can't get past the combal/classes and this makes up a HUGE portion of the game as a whole.
the whole rift soul system had me hooked for months.. all the combos all the roles.. you could go 10 levels then respec to something completely differn't kept things fresh and interesting... in the end once you hit endgame it was to much of the same but till then at least they had that...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Yeah, the combat ability system is indeed quite hackneyed. Though that's my pet peeve with pretty much all MMOs, almost none has fun combat. And the "magic" is often so un-magical; a mage is practically an "elemental archer" in most games. You know how the Sith Inquisitor opens up the holocron by "just shooting lightning at it"? Well, I guess that's Bioware's answer to how MMOs work. :P
Also, I just find it lacklustre that they've gone with mirror-classes. When you play an Imperial Agent and then a Smuggler, even if you go with different ACs, it doesn't feel distinctive enough for me.
I think the need for balance is what's making MMO combat so dull. We seldom have really "out there" abilities.
You forgot about this sandbox game as well.....
Minecraft Hits 20 Million Registered Users
If you're a card-carrying Minecraft player, consider yourself in good company. Markus Persson, the game's mastermind (better known by his online handle, Notch), tweeted that the blocky sandbox game has hit a significant milestone: 20 million registered users.
His first tweet was relatively mild, saying "Minecraft now has 20 million registered users. At 70 kg each, that's 25% of the weight of the Great Pyramid of Giza." He followed it up with a slightly disturbing conversion. "At 4 liters per day, it would take a million years to drink 20 million liquidized humans. Just saying. I'll stop now."
Those registrations didn't all translate to paid users, which Notch noted in a similarly tongue-in-cheek stat. "23.23% also bought the game. Extrapolating, we find that 76.77% of the internet will register for things they don't want."
That's more than 4.6 million paid copies, if you don't feel like crunching the numbers yourself.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/01/14/minecraft-hits-20-million-registered-users.aspx
That is where Wildstar and ArcheAge come in.
So what would be a better way ? make it so everyone can have one ? I assume you don't want that because you comment on there being too many of them... how do you make this class rare ( which it should be ) without the grind ?
The pie in the sky MMO for me is a hybrid... but one that does both ends well.
Here is an example:
Best leveling i have ever seen: WoW no question, #2 RIFT and a close 2
Best end game(s) - 1. SWG ( pvp, bounty hunting, base control, crafting, housing etc ) 2. Eq2 ( TOS ) pvp server raiding/
Honestly after what we have seen over the last 8-9 years... MMO features seem more like this:
How can we get "game other than classic RPG" or "game that typically is released on consoles" into an MMO $$ model
rather than
How can we expand on what has been done in the MMo space thus far.
========
Here lies my hope for SWTOR ... I feel that sandboxy elements where there are tools ( features ) put into the game to promote community "movement" and "interaction" can keep people long term... while the themepark, storyline leveling process can get people in and to level cap...
I just dont' see what themeparks offer at level cap anymore other than a lobby and dungeon finder... maybe sandoxy features do that ?
OP nobody expected SWG 2.0 because we knew what was coming and how the game was different from SWG...
and answering your last question, some ppl may be disappointed but many are still having a blast. Im enjoying it and the similarities to WoW are few of the reasons ill stay subbed and the few differences are enough to stay here for a while.
if you like the game, have fun. If not, move on...
This game is way to limited to be considered a true mmo. This is nothing more than a console style rpg and nothing more. Doesnt even have half the features other mmo's offer. Sorry, i want ot love TOR, i miss SWG, and i just want a good epic mmo. TOR is not epic, i never played WOW, im not a fan boy or a troll. Just stating the truth, if you guys like limits, confined games, lack of innovation, and a console kiddie rpg with tons of eye candy instead a real mmo, by all means enjoy your game. But as a real gamer, i expected much more.
Back to rift or something different until Archeage comes out
BTW these are my opinions, dont care if you agree or not, thats why they are opinions. We all have one, be civil. But seriously, deep down in your heart you realy think TOR is an epic mmo?
EQII > WoW, by far. And at least in europe EQII was released before WoW.
Agreed 100%. You know what the best thing about this not being SWG 2.0 is though? It is not ANOTHER crappy game made by SOE that never gets fixed or even really worked on much. That company has just burned too many bridges for me now. Won't even buy their garbage anymore.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Didn't like this game, social aspect was completely missing as the poster said.
Very solo friendly and I guess thats the problem, without fear of whats out there and no consequence of dying (other than a few coin), why make duos, groups etc.
Wasn't really a game for me and cancelled my subscription.
Sure others will enjoy it.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I'm a SWG vet who lost his Master Creature Handler to the effed up decisions made by SOE.
Having said that, ToR feels more like Star Wars than SWG ever did...by a factor of ten. After having been blown away by Coruscant, I didn't think I could be more impressed with the world. That is until I reached Nar Shadaa. I was quite stunned by how amazing that planet is so far. It looks and feels so cool. I was in fact reminded of SWG's pathetic attempt to capture anything Star Wars and failing. Yeah...SWG got some creatures right...some 'classes' right. But I never felt like I was in Star Wars universe.
As for Socializing...I see tons of Socializing in the game. I have no idea what the OP is talking about. Dozens of calls to run Esseles and other Heorics/Flashpoints all night long.
But no...the game doesn't force you to group or socialize. Which is fine by me, because quite frankly, most of you suck. I mean, when I read the post on this forum, I know that I'd never want to group with 90% of you. You're all a bunch of bitter, whiney, complainers.
Your statement is out of context and has no frame of reference. There was actually a time when SWG was hugely popular and in a time when 300,000 subscriptions was considered a smash hit.
Only since WoW with it's OMGBAGILLION subscriptions has 300,000 seemed insignificant, and the only reason that happend is because Blizzard made an MMO for non-MMO gamers.
Another sandbox fan trying to destroy the game...
Personally I think SWTOR is MUCH more fun than SWG ever was. I couldn't be happier that it isn't SWG 2.
We get that you don't feel the same. Thanks for sharing. Time to move on with your life...
More on this:
Understand though, that I am not an advocate for World of Warcraft, its mention in these statements is to provide context and historical reference.
Blizzard cornered the market when they released World of Warcraft, and they were able to do this because for the first someone created an MMO for non-MMO fans. They took what was perceived to be the best parts of single-player experiences and likewise from the previous generation of MMORPGs and melded them together. However, what they failed to realize is that just like single-player experiences, these games have finite longevity. Eventually players will grow tired of continuously repeating the same content. The slow loss of subscribers that World of Warcraft is experiencing is proof of this.
However, this eventuality has not yet reached the board rooms of developers, publishers, and investment groups. What is really happening is stagnation, which exists because of two problems. Firstly, developers are not sure what the market demand actually is; they are confused. It was assumed for quite some time that the market wanted Warcraft style themeparks. However this cannot be the case since every attempt has failed to reach World of Warcraft’s subscription levels. While the game might be fine on its surface, because it failed to reach those numbers, it is seen as a failure in the eyes of the industry, investors, and other developers. Secondly, they are confused because the majority of players who initially flock to these new themeparks eventually return to World of Warcraft, so it appears that the Warcraft style themeparks holds sway, when it fact it really doesn’t. World of Warcraft alone holds sway, and it is an anomaly in the history of the MMO, and no future MMO will ever garner the subscription numbers that it had at its peak.
Now, SWTOR’s potential failure (failure as in not attaining Warcraft level subscription numbers) could trigger a reassessment of the market demographic and its tendencies. It could also trigger the emergence of an innovative developer which moves away from the Clone Syndrome, due to the realization of market dynamics.
Yep I agree. The fact that games have been out for what, 40 years now? Its still a pretty young industry. Throw in MMO's, which have only been out for a little over a decade now - and you pretty much have a brand new market. Board room suits are still figuring out how the market works and shifts.
I feel people here give these board room suits too much credit. AAA after AAA themepark comes out and fails repeatedly in the eyes of the industry. Look how much money was sunk into TOR - this was not a petty investment.
In reality, the suits know probably as much as we do, as players. They see us as a market, but the market isnt reacting the way they wanted it to. TOR sold what? 2 million, 2.5million max? And you have innovative games like Minecraft running on 32 bit graphics selling 20 million. Anyone see something a little odd here?
And you have Bioware having the audacity saying, "This is how MMO's work, this is the premiere design for all MMOs. We have it all figured out." Clearly, you dont. You dont.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
While I don't hope SWTOR will fail, it is certainly a possibility. If you create a hugely expensive game like this, you run the risk of leaving the biggest hole ever in EA pockets. The chance it won't ever attain WoW-like subscription numbers is starting to look like it's bordering on certainty. It won't necessarily be a failure if it doesn't match WoW sub numbers. It will be a failure if it doesn't at least break even.
Look, people, step away from the Echo chamber. SWTOR is NOT going to fail, no matter how much a few posters on here post that it is or will.
With a million subs, they make back their investment his year. With a mere 500k subs, they make their money back next year. For a business investment, that is quite good. Box and digital sales have already paid back a large percentage of that investment.
The reality is that SWTOR is, and will be, successful. And I'm not even a fanboy.
^
What he said
I am having allot of fun. I enjoy the story line and cut scenes. I watch every cut scene. This brings me into the game and makes me feel a part of the story. Take your time, enjoy the story and by all means, don't rush to level cap.
Both my Sons are playing with me, the difference between my playing and theirs, is that they spacebar through the story and are running to end game. Still, they are enjoying it. This is a very well made game. When I saw the requirements of 30 gigs of space needed....that blew me away. Now I see why.