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Sadly SWTOR is losing its appeal too fast for me at level 50.

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  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158

    Originally posted by Painlezz

    I'm confused, when/where are nightmare mode Flashpoint/instances?  We cleared/farmed the hardmodes but I have never seen an option for nightmare or otherwise.

    I "think" raids might offer 3 options?  But the standard 4 man instances do not from my experience.  Hell, only a handfull of the current flashpoints even have a hardmode. 

    Nightmare is for operations only. 

     

    I'll agree with dark on the pvp however the rest I was expecting from the moment it was announced. I have plenty of things to do on my level 50. If your not into the whole gearingup/numbers thing then I guess you'd be disappointed however I always enjoy playing RPGs for the loot and numbers. 

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

     

    If TOR with its 10 or so dungeons that have level 50 mode plus hard and nightmare mode with 2 raids and another dungeon coming with content patch AND world PvP that is getting fixed isn't enought to get some people who I will not name to say, "You know what maybe this game won't go the route of WAR." Then what makes those same people think that the 3 games I mention will hold a large portion of peoples interest?

     

    A full answer to that is really a lot more complicated than I want to get into here or now, and there are other people who have been following each of those games a lot more closely than I have, who could answer better than I could, too.  I'm not really big on following games that aren't out, yet.

     

    For starters though, I highly doubt that the open world PvP of each game will be much like TOR's.  You can see, they each have a different sort of spin on it, and from what I can tell, the devs seem more invested in that facet of the game than Bioware is.  TSW is really big on the lore and faction aspect of pitting players against eachother.  GW2 looks like it will excel in gameplay mechanics, using dynamic events and open grouping to bring players together.  AA focuses more on sandbox elements and resources, attempting to get players to feel more invested in the gameworld.

     

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    Well said Vhaln

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,405
    Originally posted by Lazarus71

    I have to agree with Dark Pony on all his points.
    I am in the same situation as San and a couple others also. I have a lvl 30 char and a couple 15+ and I just can't bring myself to log in anymore.  It all feels stale to me already, nothing that can keep me hooked. Oh where is this fresh new MMO we all need to revitalize our love for the genre?

     

    It's not coming because people will just shit on whatever comes out. Look around. It's sad. I mean seriously, the only games people are excited about are the ones that aren't out. Once they do come out, it takes about 1-2 days for the shitting to begin... Or in some cases, in early access...lol. Mmorpg fans are the most jaded there are...lol
  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,081

    Originally posted by Praetalus

    Originally posted by Lazarus71

    I have to agree with Dark Pony on all his points.

    I am in the same situation as San and a couple others also. I have a lvl 30 char and a couple 15+ and I just can't bring myself to log in anymore.  It all feels stale to me already, nothing that can keep me hooked. Oh where is this fresh new MMO we all need to revitalize our love for the genre?

     

    It's not coming because people will just shit on whatever comes out. Look around. It's sad. I mean seriously, he only Ames people are excited about are the ones that aren't out. Once they do come out, it takes about 1-2 days for the shitting to begin... Or in some cases, in early access...lol. Mmorpg fans are the most jaded there are...lol

    Very true sadly Praetalus.......

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • NixlNixl Member Posts: 67

    Wow, I am utterly shocked by this.  I remember your excitement for the game.  I just did not expect this.

     

    Luckily, after beta testing TOR I knew the game was not for me at all and so I saved myself some grief. The game seems okay, but not truly great.  I actually have spent a decent amount of time thinking about what happened to this game.  Ultimately, I think TOR started out an incredibly ambitious product with a lot of ideas that either simply did not work out or Bioware simply ran out of time.  I think the biggest mistake Bioware made was buying the HeroEngine rather than make their own.  A large majority of complaints that I have read about the gamplay stem from either bugs or poor optiization. 

    The more I see TOR, the more I think they went the wrong direction in terms of story, questing, leveling, endgame, and PVP.  This may sound negative, but I just do not think they excelled in any area to be honest.  I wanted this to be an amazing Kotor 3 with PVP battles and the like, but I simply do not know what TOR is anymore. 

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    GW2 all in all has no end game, its PvP from what I can tell is a lot like SWTOR's is now (Anyone can do it and everyone is thrown in at level 10-50) with the exception of endgame WPvP for SWTOR, heavily casual in that it takes the same amount of time to get from 10-11 as it does 54-55.  People will level find that there is less end game then even SWTOR and leave.

    The difference is that in GW2's structured PvP, everyone, level 1 or 80 will have the EXACT same abilities and stats available to them.  It is completely fair in a leveling sense.  A level 80 character has no advantages over a level 1.

    I don't see this as a good thing personally in terms of longtivity. Good for PvP community though. In SWTOR the only real diference is talents after 1.1.

    Your opinion of course, and I would disagree.  GW2's PvP is trying to be like an "eSport" kind of like how Starcraft is.  Whether this will catch on or not, we'll have to see.  And I also think another difference in GW2 will be that there is no "gear" difference in PvP, I think everyone is essentially "even," though don't quote me on this.

    The same could more or less be said of SWTOR PvP when they cut out the level 50s, in Warzones the only difference between a level 10 and 49 is talent points.

    TSW and AA are sandbox games, AA from the looks of it seems to be a little like WoW  combat wise save for the combo system and it being a sandbox (With no major IP attacht) means that its more then likely to go at best the way of EvE.

    AA is a sandbox/themepark hybrid, and from what I've learned, TSW is kind of like a themepark/adventure-game hybrid.

    AA also appears to be Korean and seeing how AION went I am very wary (as interested as I am in AA), TSW is by FunCom.

    Yeah I'm wary of these two as well, moreso than GW2.  Only because GW2 has more concrete information and demos out there.

    Agreed

    Don't know all to much about TSW.

     

    But as I said before if TOR and RIFT do not (In a year or so) have a good solid playing base of 1mil+ and 300k+ respectivly then the MMO genre is fucked IMO and no game will be able to ever again get over a million subs.

    How do you figure?  Just look at the legion of games that plummeted in subs before SWTOR and Rift came out...MMORPG genre is still trucking on.

    I talked with a gaming buddy of mine about this, SWTOR has the backing of one of the largest gaming puplishers followed by being created by one of the greatest RPG developers followed by having one the largest IPs in the world in its name followed by being a solid game followed by being (compared to every MMO launch and even most MMOs currently) polished.

    And while I am a glass half full type of guy I have to say the MMO genre would be worse off if SWTOR "failed". Because as someone who took AP Bussiness classes in High School you would be retarded to create an high budget MMO without large players like EA creating MMOs other companies would stop creating them thus we would be left with indie companies promising everything like they normally do and we would go into the MMO dark ages.

     

    In Theory...

     

    Well, as someone with an MBA (had to hehe :)), I would say that you may be right or you may be wrong.  It all depends on how in touch the investors are with the "product."  They may look at a SWTOR failure as a sign that the MMORPG market is dying.  Or they may look at it as a product that misjudged the market's needs and see opportunity in segmenting the market in a different way (different feature-set).

     

    Also, bear in mind that the MMORPG industry is still making MAD money (because of WoW), so that's a general sign that the market is itself, healthy.  Oh and one more thing...SWTOR already sold over 2 million copies from what I hear.  So even if it fails to maintain subs, it still shows that lots of people are interested in playing MMORPGs.  Another sign that the market is healthy.  If it fails to maintain subs, I think it should be blamed on the product, not the market in general.  If the market was dying, it wouldn't have sold so many boxes.

    If SWTOR 'fails' then it will be the death of P2P MMOs I can almost promise you that. And that we'll see a rise of what I like to call "Quick buck" mmos like GW1 and D&DO. Little content with high profit margins.

    Post is getting monstrous, so I'm just going to continue it out here :).

    Regarding PvP:  The differences in SWTOR's PvP 10-49 bracket will be gear, talents, and abilities that you just get by leveling.  The differences in GW2's structured PvP (AFAIK) will be nothing level or gear wise at all.  It's a pretty big distinction when you consider how much of an impact gear can have on PvP.

    Regarding the business implications of an SWTOR failure:  I don't see how you figure.  Business folks aren't going to measure the viability of an entire industry on the success or failure of a single product.  They will judge its viability by ALL the products together.  If WoW is still making tons of money, then why would they think that the MMORPG industry is dead?  Also, SWTOR already sold 2 million units like I said before, so it's clear there is still a lot of consumer interest in MMORPGs.

    I know it's tempting to say if a big project fails then the industry is doomed, but it just doesn't work that way.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    And to that  I say:

     

    We have had tons of MMOs that have "Broken the mold" more then those three (You could make the argument that TOR broke it too not more then GW2 AA TSW(Calling it now SWTOR will be more innovative then TSW.) ) Darkfall, TERA (Its already failing in the East I doubt it will do anybetter over here) and even EvE have all menaged to to something different yet are only able ot retain a fraction of what WoW has and even failures like WAR still have about 1/6th the number of players as EvE and EQIIs severs are all full.

     

    My new question to you is, Is changing the core element of gameplay enough?

     

    BF3 while a poor example still pales when compared to the new COD.

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne Member UncommonPosts: 1,549

    I agree with the OP 100%.

    However, I think all themepark MMOs have a similar problem.

    That's why my long-term favorite game is Eve Online. Mind you, I'm not saying Eve Online is perfect.

  • tank017tank017 Member Posts: 2,192

    Originally posted by Nixl

    Wow, I am utterly shocked by this.  I remember your excitement for the game.  I just did not expect this.

     

    Luckily, after beta testing TOR I knew the game was not for me at all and so I saved myself some grief. The game seems okay, but not truly great.  I actually have spent a decent amount of time thinking about what happened to this game.  Ultimately, I think TOR started out an incredibly ambitious product with a lot of ideas that either simply did not work out or Bioware simply ran out of time.  I think the biggest mistake Bioware made was buying the HeroEngine rather than make their own.  A large majority of complaints that I have read about the gamplay stem from either bugs or poor optiization. 

    The more I see TOR, the more I think they went the wrong direction in terms of story, questing, leveling, endgame, and PVP.  This may sound negative, but I just do not think they excelled in any area to be honest.  I wanted this to be an amazing Kotor 3 with PVP battles and the like, but I simply do not know what TOR is anymore. 

    I really dont think the game excels in any area either really..

     

    the VO and story is just a thin veil trying to mask a mediocre MMO experience.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    And to that  I say:

     

    We have had tons of MMOs that have "Broken the mold" more then those three (You could make the argument that TOR broke it too not more then GW2 AA TSW(Calling it now SWTOR will be more innovative then TSW.) ) Darkfall, TERA (Its already failing in the East I doubt it will do anybetter over here) and even EvE have all menaged to to something different yet are only able ot retain a fraction of what WoW has and even failures like WAR still have about 1/6th the number of players as EvE and EQIIs severs are all full.

     

    My new question to you is, Is changing the core element of gameplay enough?

     

    BF3 while a poor example still pales when compared to the new COD.

    Oh my...having played TSW...Jesus Christ lmao. I don't even know, alright I'll just let you think that, you did make me spill my koolaid a tad bit though ha ha.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,185

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    I could play the "we" told you so card here but I wont. Just saying sad for you that it didn't meet your expectations hopefully you'll find another game which you like in the long run.

    There has been very little worthwhile criticism from people who had actually played it for a long time / made it to level 50 in beta. The little of it that actually did surface was subsequently drowned in the onslaught of unmerrited hate.

     

     

    This isn't true at all. I've been all over BW's nuts about so many things that were obvious for about 4-5 months. Being in beta for that long and seeing the slow progress or sometimes no progress of what i consider pretty basic concepts, really started to pile up. Those that i had the luxury to play with in beta for that long voiced the same exact concerns and we were met with "it's only beta". 

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Post is getting monstrous, so I'm just going to continue it out here :).

    Regarding PvP:  The differences in SWTOR's PvP 10-49 bracket will be gear, talents, and abilities that you just get by leveling.  The differences in GW2's structured PvP (AFAIK) will be nothing level or gear wise at all.  It's a pretty big distinction when you consider how much of an impact gear can have on PvP

    After level 20 or so the diffence (If you fighting someone lower then 50) while great its still possible to kill people your level. Personally I had hoped that they would have said fuck it  and added cross realm WZs.

    Regarding the business implications of an SWTOR failure:  I don't see how you figure.  Business folks aren't going to measure the viability of an entire industry on the success or failure of a single product.  They will judge its viability by ALL the products together.  If WoW is still making tons of money, then why would they think that the MMORPG industry is dead?  Also, SWTOR already sold 2 million units like I said before, so it's clear there is still a lot of consumer interest in MMORPGst

    I think at this point or rather the next few months unless my predictoins are wrong and TOR has major growth, we will truly see if WoW was a major fluke or not.  

    I know it's tempting to say if a big project fails then the industry is doomed, but it just doesn't work that way.

    I'm saying that we won't see a 100 million dollor MMO project by bentheda if TOR fails not that the MMO genre is doomed.

    And there we go.

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • pmaurapmaura Member UncommonPosts: 530

    Originally posted by tank017

    Originally posted by Nixl

    Wow, I am utterly shocked by this.  I remember your excitement for the game.  I just did not expect this.

     

    Luckily, after beta testing TOR I knew the game was not for me at all and so I saved myself some grief. The game seems okay, but not truly great.  I actually have spent a decent amount of time thinking about what happened to this game.  Ultimately, I think TOR started out an incredibly ambitious product with a lot of ideas that either simply did not work out or Bioware simply ran out of time.  I think the biggest mistake Bioware made was buying the HeroEngine rather than make their own.  A large majority of complaints that I have read about the gamplay stem from either bugs or poor optiization. 

    The more I see TOR, the more I think they went the wrong direction in terms of story, questing, leveling, endgame, and PVP.  This may sound negative, but I just do not think they excelled in any area to be honest.  I wanted this to be an amazing Kotor 3 with PVP battles and the like, but I simply do not know what TOR is anymore. 

    I really dont think the game excels in any area either really..

     

    the VO and story is just a thin veil trying to mask a mediocre MMO experience.

    and what is a great MMO experience?

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    Originally posted by Vhaln

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    And to that  I say:

     

    We have had tons of MMOs that have "Broken the mold" more then those three (You could make the argument that TOR broke it too not more then GW2 AA TSW(Calling it now SWTOR will be more innovative then TSW.) ) Darkfall, TERA (Its already failing in the East I doubt it will do anybetter over here) and even EvE have all menaged to to something different yet are only able ot retain a fraction of what WoW has and even failures like WAR still have about 1/6th the number of players as EvE and EQIIs severs are all full.

     

    My new question to you is, Is changing the core element of gameplay enough?

     

    BF3 while a poor example still pales when compared to the new COD.

    Oh my...having played TSW...Jesus Christ lmao. I don't even know, alright I'll just let you think that, you did make me spill my koolaid a tad bit though ha ha.

    Did I say innovative?

    I ment to say better.

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • pmaurapmaura Member UncommonPosts: 530

    Originally posted by Jack_Target

    I agree with the OP 100%.

    However, I think all themepark MMOs have a similar problem.

    That's why my long-term favorite game is Eve Online. Mind you, I'm not saying Eve Online is perfect.

     

    I agree with what you said, infact EVE is the ONLY MMORPG out there as far as I am concerned as its the ony one with a persistent and changing world.

    Its also a massive life sink. I love that game but required too much time. 

    Maybe when I am retired I will get back into it full time

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    Originally posted by Vhaln

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    And to that  I say:

     

    We have had tons of MMOs that have "Broken the mold" more then those three (You could make the argument that TOR broke it too not more then GW2 AA TSW(Calling it now SWTOR will be more innovative then TSW.) ) Darkfall, TERA (Its already failing in the East I doubt it will do anybetter over here) and even EvE have all menaged to to something different yet are only able ot retain a fraction of what WoW has and even failures like WAR still have about 1/6th the number of players as EvE and EQIIs severs are all full.

     

    My new question to you is, Is changing the core element of gameplay enough?

     

    BF3 while a poor example still pales when compared to the new COD.

    Oh my...having played TSW...Jesus Christ lmao. I don't even know, alright I'll just let you think that, you did make me spill my koolaid a tad bit though ha ha.

    Did I say innovative?

    I ment to say better.

    Alright that's better lmao you scared me for a minute, I mean I disagree with your arguements between Creslin and Vhalin, but I actually thought you were a tad bit dilusional for a sec ha ha.

     

    Umm Tor might be better than TSW for some people, it wasn't from my experienes but that's just my experiences, neither experiences were better compared to my experiences with GW 2 and the [skill] based PVP in the game as well but how ever it's what ever floats his/her boat.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • NixlNixl Member Posts: 67

    Originally posted by pmaura

    Originally posted by tank017


     

    I really dont think the game excels in any area either really..

     

    the VO and story is just a thin veil trying to mask a mediocre MMO experience.

    and what is a great MMO experience?

    I think the experience depends on what player is looking for (raids, quests, RP, world PVP, etc). However, I feel like games like AOC, War, Rift all had at least some area they excelled in. This may sound like hyperbole sir, but I just do not see what TOR excels at.  I know some say VA or story, but from my own personal experience with TOR, story was my worse experience with it.

     

    I just feel like they took the wrong direction. I realize that is a subjective and TOR may be succesful without it, but something feels off about TOR.

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    Originally posted by Vhaln

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    And to that  I say:

     

    We have had tons of MMOs that have "Broken the mold" more then those three (You could make the argument that TOR broke it too not more then GW2 AA TSW(Calling it now SWTOR will be more innovative then TSW.) ) Darkfall, TERA (Its already failing in the East I doubt it will do anybetter over here) and even EvE have all menaged to to something different yet are only able ot retain a fraction of what WoW has and even failures like WAR still have about 1/6th the number of players as EvE and EQIIs severs are all full.

     

    My new question to you is, Is changing the core element of gameplay enough?

     

    BF3 while a poor example still pales when compared to the new COD.

    Oh my...having played TSW...Jesus Christ lmao. I don't even know, alright I'll just let you think that, you did make me spill my koolaid a tad bit though ha ha.

    Did I say innovative?

    I ment to say better.

    Alright that's better lmao you scared me for a minute, I mean I disagree with your arguements between Creslin and Vhalin, but I actually thought you were a tad bit dilusional for a sec ha ha.

     

    Umm Tor might be better than TSW for some people, it wasn't from my experienes but that's just my experiences, neither experiences were better compared to my experiences with GW 2 and the [skill] based PVP in the game as well but how ever it's what ever floats his/her boat.

    Wait a minute actually watched some videos of TSW game play.

    I take what I said back once again, TOR and TSW  are abou thte same innovatoin wise, sorry but without GW2 combat TSW looks like DCUO with story (not rreally a bad thing but hardly innovative.)

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    For me what kills SWTORs end game is there is nothing to do but battlegrounds and Raids. 

     

    In WoW you had the world PVP which kept me hooked for ages because you could have hundreds of people in one area fighting and it was just fun and unpredictable. Then you had guilds which organised fights out in the world, guilds that projected lowbie zones and City raids on the weekends. In SWTOR there is no seamless world and all the the planets are just big zones with lots of instancing and loading screens and world PVP doens't exist much in the game. It really feels like more of a Small scale multiplayer game as your only option is battlegrounds and no world PVP becuase there is no world, it's more like Guild Wars.

    Once Blizzard killed off world PVP with the 1.6 patch (I think) where you could enter a battlegrounds without having to go out into the world, I lost interest and quit. I really want that feeling of a world or I could be playing any old multiplayer game and I would rather do that because they don't require a subscription.

    The other thing is because WoW's quest design wasn't linear you could go to one of a few zones to level up in. However in SWTOR you'll be playing much of the same quests apart from the class stuff (unless you pick the same class) and it gets so boring and tedious that making an ALT is no fun. Even when you roll the other faction it feels rather mirrored as you're going to the same planets in the same areas. In WoW you didn't share the same quest hubs for the most part so you was different parts of the zones or different zones altogether. There is only one planet (zone) per level range so you'll follow the same path every time making an ALT.

    To me SWTOR feels like a worse WoW Seven years later and I was expecting Bioware to really reinvent the genre as they were saying in the early days of SWTOR. 

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by Snaylor47


    Originally posted by Vhaln

    In each game, these are core elements they seem to be focusing on, integrating into the foundation of what their games are all about, whereas in TOR, it seems much more like 'tacked on' instance based endgame.  I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get.  It doesn't matter how many instances TOR adds, as long as they're just not what some players want out of endgame.. and I'm not sure Ilum or Huttball will ever be substantial enough to make up for it.

     

    And to that  I say:

     

    We have had tons of MMOs that have "Broken the mold" more then those three (You could make the argument that TOR broke it too not more then GW2 AA TSW(Calling it now SWTOR will be more innovative then TSW.) ) Darkfall, TERA (Its already failing in the East I doubt it will do anybetter over here) and even EvE have all menaged to to something different yet are only able ot retain a fraction of what WoW has and even failures like WAR still have about 1/6th the number of players as EvE and EQIIs severs are all full.

     

    My new question to you is, Is changing the core element of gameplay enough?

     

    BF3 while a poor example still pales when compared to the new COD.

    Oh my...having played TSW...Jesus Christ lmao. I don't even know, alright I'll just let you think that, you did make me spill my koolaid a tad bit though ha ha.

    Did I say innovative?

    I ment to say better.

    Alright that's better lmao you scared me for a minute, I mean I disagree with your arguements between Creslin and Vhalin, but I actually thought you were a tad bit dilusional for a sec ha ha.

     

    Umm Tor might be better than TSW for some people, it wasn't from my experienes but that's just my experiences, neither experiences were better compared to my experiences with GW 2 and the [skill] based PVP in the game as well but how ever it's what ever floats his/her boat.

    Wait a minute actually watched some videos of TSW game play.

    I take what I said back once again, TOR and TSW  are abou thte same innovatoin wise, sorry but without GW2 combat TSW looks like DCUO with story (not rreally a bad thing but hardly innovative.)

    All I have to say is may the common sense be with you Snaylor and take care.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • SojhinSojhin Member UncommonPosts: 226

    Originally posted by DarkPony

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    I could play the "we" told you so card here but I wont. Just saying sad for you that it didn't meet your expectations hopefully you'll find another game which you like in the long run.

    I still think a lot of the criticism / flak which Swtor has been getting was either premature, not based on facts or actual experience and inspired by personal bias though.

    There has been very little worthwhile criticism from people who had actually played it for a long time / made it to level 50 in beta. The little of it that actually did surface was subsequently drowned in the onslaught of unmerrited hate.

    The points in the above impression are based on my own experiences though,and I don't regret a minute of playing it or a penny spend on it. Because like I said, I did have a great first month.

     

     

    ***

    I give you that some of the criticism was more based upon a religious disdain for the coupling of a great deal of money with the brand of star wars for the space WoW vision. Many of us in beta desired a different vision. Alongside this much of the criticism was from people such as myself and others on betacake forums etc whom had lvl'd to 50 in beta and desired to contrast the flaws so that these flaws may see redress before lauch.  

    Now any such redress if ever will come about many months down the road. 

    ***

     

  • headphonesheadphones Member Posts: 611

    Originally posted by Starpower

    Originally posted by Aguitha

    Game lost it's appeal for me within the first weekend.   Maybe i'm just burned out with MMO's, i dunno but the constant running around go kill 10 of these, get back, only to get send back where you came from to deliever something, it's just plain boring.  And to the OP, i guess if you reach 50 and have nothing to do, i could pretty much understand how boring the game has become to you.    Devs need to think outside the box, we've been playing these games  for almost 10 years now, we need something new and not just the same old, same old only with a new paint on it.

    How would you change it?

     

    I've been thinking about how fed up I am with the kill x quests. The conclusion I have is it's not the kill x quests that's the problem but the whole combat system widely adapted in the genre. If fighting was fun then fighting is what you want to do. If there's a counter up in the corner then it shouldn't matter, because killing things would be fun. .. the fact is it isn't. I can only contribute that to a boring combat system.

    i'm playing an imperial agent. i hunt rebel scum.

    i'm also a sniper.

    i haven't sniped anyone, yet. wouldn't mind the chance to snipe someone. i bet plenty of assassins would want to assassinate someone. and smugglers would like to smuggle. bounty hunters would like to collect bounties. thing is, there's a token effort, but it boils down to: sniper, go kill 10 rats. assassins, go assassinate 10 rats. bounty hunters, go hunt 10 rats. and smugglers? ummm. go shoot some guys.

    what's wrong with a quest to go snipe some guy, but first you have to find the right spot to do it and right time? sure, it may take your time on a quest, but if xp was rewarding enough, wouldn't that make it exciting? and if the skillsets more matched the classes in more than just name, you could get more ideas for quests.

    i should need to go to someone with slicing as a skill to maybe get my mods improved/upgraded. more because of tor's cutscene and story-driven rail engine, there was plenty of opportunity to do something more immersive. but even in most normal mmos - who really feels like the class they're supposed to be? a thief? what do i steal? nothing worthwhile. warrior? what can i kill - my dps is pathetic because i'm just a walking wall. to me, a 2h axe should be doing a lot more damage than the rogue's pocket knife.

    i don't have all the answers to this, but i'll bet you if they started to give more focus on the actual class and their individual flavours rather than just giving themed names to damage output skills, then you'd get a lot more gamers keeping their interest.

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by tixylix

    For me what kills SWTORs end game is there is nothing to do but battlegrounds and Raids. 

     

    In WoW you had the world PVP which kept me hooked for ages because you could have hundreds of people in one area fighting and it was just fun and unpredictable. Then you had guilds which organised fights out in the world, guilds that projected lowbie zones and City raids on the weekends. In SWTOR there is no seamless world and all the the planets are just big zones with lots of instancing and loading screens and world PVP doens't exist much in the game. It really feels like more of a Small scale multiplayer game as your only option is battlegrounds and no world PVP becuase there is no world, it's more like Guild Wars.

    Except for Ilum which is its own PvP World... and while its a bit broken the basic go kill people in an open world still exsist in it. What you're asking for does no exsist in MMOs anymroe save for maybe EvE.

     

    Once Blizzard killed off world PVP with the 1.6 patch (I think) where you could enter a battlegrounds without having to go out into the world, I lost interest and quit. I really want that feeling of a world or I could be playing any old multiplayer game and I would rather do that because they don't require a subscription

    Millions of people would disagree with you.

    The other thing is because WoW's quest design wasn't linear you could go to one of a few zones to level up in.

    On paper you're correct. In practice you're wrong, No one level in Decolend (Spelling) they all went to Badlands this was like this for every leveling bracket because one zone was far to large and had fewer quest then the smaller more compact zones. Also in SWTOR if you do companion quest and the like you are more likely to go back to earlier planets.

    To me SWTOR feels like a worse WoW Seven years later and I was expecting Bioware to really reinvent the genre as they were saying in the early days of SWTOr.

    Never did they say this.

     

     

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by headphones

    Originally posted by Starpower


    Originally posted by Aguitha

    Game lost it's appeal for me within the first weekend.   Maybe i'm just burned out with MMO's, i dunno but the constant running around go kill 10 of these, get back, only to get send back where you came from to deliever something, it's just plain boring.  And to the OP, i guess if you reach 50 and have nothing to do, i could pretty much understand how boring the game has become to you.    Devs need to think outside the box, we've been playing these games  for almost 10 years now, we need something new and not just the same old, same old only with a new paint on it.

    How would you change it?

     

    I've been thinking about how fed up I am with the kill x quests. The conclusion I have is it's not the kill x quests that's the problem but the whole combat system widely adapted in the genre. If fighting was fun then fighting is what you want to do. If there's a counter up in the corner then it shouldn't matter, because killing things would be fun. .. the fact is it isn't. I can only contribute that to a boring combat system.

    i'm playing an imperial agent. i hunt rebel scum.

    i'm also a sniper.

    i haven't sniped anyone, yet. wouldn't mind the chance to snipe someone. i bet plenty of assassins would want to assassinate someone. and smugglers would like to smuggle. bounty hunters would like to collect bounties. thing is, there's a token effort, but it boils down to: sniper, go kill 10 rats. assassins, go assassinate 10 rats. bounty hunters, go hunt 10 rats. and smugglers? ummm. go shoot some guys.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v3ItzEvNfI

    What is that smuggler doing?

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    Originally posted by Snaylor47

    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Post is getting monstrous, so I'm just going to continue it out here :).

    Regarding PvP:  The differences in SWTOR's PvP 10-49 bracket will be gear, talents, and abilities that you just get by leveling.  The differences in GW2's structured PvP (AFAIK) will be nothing level or gear wise at all.  It's a pretty big distinction when you consider how much of an impact gear can have on PvP

    After level 20 or so the diffence (If you fighting someone lower then 50) while great its still possible to kill people your level. Personally I had hoped that they would have said fuck it  and added cross realm WZs.

    Regarding the business implications of an SWTOR failure:  I don't see how you figure.  Business folks aren't going to measure the viability of an entire industry on the success or failure of a single product.  They will judge its viability by ALL the products together.  If WoW is still making tons of money, then why would they think that the MMORPG industry is dead?  Also, SWTOR already sold 2 million units like I said before, so it's clear there is still a lot of consumer interest in MMORPGst

    I think at this point or rather the next few months unless my predictoins are wrong and TOR has major growth, we will truly see if WoW was a major fluke or not.  

    I know it's tempting to say if a big project fails then the industry is doomed, but it just doesn't work that way.

    I'm saying that we won't see a 100 million dollor MMO project by bentheda if TOR fails not that the MMO genre is doomed.

    And there we go.

    Eh, I still don't agree.

    Just look at the amount of money the MMORPG genre generates.  Here's a very rough and very conservative estimate:

    1.  Let's say there are 16 million active subscriptions to MMORPGs based on the fact that WoW has thereabouts 11 million.  Assume these are all $15 a month.

    2.  Now let's say that there are at least 2 major MMORPG releases a year that sell about 400K copies, and a WoW expansion every two years that sells 10 million.  Assume the major releases sell for $50, and the WoW expansion sells for $30

    So that's...

    (16 million subscriptions * $15 * 12 months) + (2 releases * 400,000 sales * $50) + (1 WoW expansion * 5 million copies sold a year * $30) = 

    3 billion seventy million dollars

    Now just to be conservative, cut that in half because a lot of this money comes from Asia where the price is lower = 

    1.5 billion dollars

    That's a pretty freaking big number.  That means that if your total production costs are $100 million, then you really only need to capture 10 percent (being conservative because of variable retail costs) of the market to make back your investment in a year.

    I don't see how the failure of one game would stop people from investing.  The industry is just too big and profitable.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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