A good virtual world is not to much time consuming bcs it is filled with adventure spots that can be played in any amount of time you want to preset as designer.
A virtual world is NOT a monolithic world!
What you are describing is a game, not a virtual world. I'm not sure if you understand what virtual world means.
I'm not sure you understand what a virtual world means. What he describes is spot on.
A virtual world is not a monolithic world. It is filled with adventure spots, long, short, tedious, fun, repetetive, single time, building... It is everything... you know just like the actual world.
A virtual world will have some things that only take a few minutes at a time and are fun. It will have things that need to be done repetitively - yes those farmers will always need rats killed. It will have simple tasks (again the rats) it will have more complex tasks (the evil people taking over the world). There is room for all of them in a virtual world.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
It's a symptom of a larger problem. We're building virtual worlds, and the best thing developers can make for us to do is have us work towards being better at killing things. RPGs have become too synonymous with combat simulators. I'm not saying that it should be a footnote, but there needs to be more to do than simply fight things.
Thank you, I agree. It seems the only thing you can play as is some sort of slayer. Every quest generlaly involves killing some monsters to achieve your goal... yea... that gets old.
I am still looking for a game where crafting is meaningful and can be advanced without combat.
I agree, as well. Viable alternatives to killing things can be done, however I don't think we'll see them until MMO gamers get fed up with playing Kill 10 Rats Online over and over in different settings each year. I had thought we'd reach that point in 2008, but that year - and its disastrous entries to the genre - came and went with not a single indication that MMO gamers wouldn't rush to pre-order the next title as soon as it comes out... again and again and again...
Unfortunately the old adage "there's a sucker born every minute" applies
If the newer sandbox MMOs would stop trying to force non-consentual PvP down my thoat, I'd be far more inclined to actually play them.
Something closer to what SWG did, but with some work, would appeal to far more players than what FFA PvP rulesets do.
All the current sandboxes are either horrible(xyson, mortal etc) or purely pvp focused (darkfall). Whcih makes them both pretty sandless.
FFA pvp works fine when it IS NOT the focus of the game. Sort of like EVE has it but even more so.
Large safe civilized areas where you can go about your crafting and low risk/reward gathering and hunting. Something like large citites and their surounding controled forests are safe.
Higher risk/reward areas are pvp enabled however there is still harsh consequences for nonconsensual pvp. Like if someone kills you you and anyone you party with can kill them without consequences. The murder can be reported in town making them wanted and not able to enter citites for something like 48 hours per kill. If they murder enough people maybe an npc tracking and hit squad can be dispatched which you can accompany. Make anything they steal from you "marked" for a month and unsaleable to npc's and clearly visable to other players. Anyone who posseses your item can be killed by you/your party and anything fo theirs looted without the "mark". Anyone else who kills them can return the marked item to a bin in town for some kind of "good/paladin/holy/light" reputation which returns the item to you and earns them something at the same time. etc.
My point is make it very difficult and undesireable to do but still possbile if someone were very determined. This would cut down on gankers and make the act of killing someone a decision of risk vs rewards. Do I really want to be hunted for a month and be unable to enter towns for hours? etc. make it so nearly everyone would only make the decision to kill another player if they knew they were carrying something very valuable, otherwise it would not be worth the hassle and risk.
If the newer sandbox MMOs would stop trying to force non-consentual PvP down my thoat, I'd be far more inclined to actually play them.
Something closer to what SWG did, but with some work, would appeal to far more players than what FFA PvP rulesets do.
All the current sandboxes are either horrible(xyson, mortal etc) or purely pvp focused (darkfall). Whcih makes them both pretty sandless.
FFA pvp works fine when it IS NOT the focus of the game. Sort of like EVE has it but even more so.
Large safe civilized areas where you can go about your crafting and low risk/reward gathering and hunting. Something like large citites and their surounding controled forests are safe.
Higher risk/reward areas are pvp enabled however there is still harsh consequences for nonconsensual pvp. Like if someone kills you you and anyone you party with can kill them without consequences. The murder can be reported in town making them wanted and not able to enter citites for something like 48 hours per kill. If they murder enough people maybe an npc tracking and hit squad can be dispatched which you can accompany. Make anything they steal from you "marked" for a month and unsaleable to npc's and clearly visable to other players. Anyone who posseses your item can be killed by you/your party and anything fo theirs looted without the "mark". Anyone else who kills them can return the marked item to a bin in town for some kind of "good/paladin/holy/light" reputation which returns the item to you and earns them something at the same time. etc.
My point is make it very difficult and undesireable to do but still possbile if someone were very determined. This would cut down on gankers and make the act of killing someone a decision of risk vs rewards. Do I really want to be hunted for a month and be unable to enter towns for hours? etc. make it so nearly everyone would only make the decision to kill another player if they knew they were carrying something very valuable, otherwise it would not be worth the hassle and risk.
Interesting ideas, many of which echo mechanics UO has used in the past or currently does use.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I agree with fargo's points especially with reference to Eve mechanics. Eve is probably one of the most brutal pvp games out there and has been for many years, but if you know the rules of the game and understand when you become a tasty target and how to remedy that then the risk of ganking is extremely low. Its a strange and wonderfull relationship, everyone does PVE, some only do PVE, other as the bankroll for PVP activities. PVE feeds PVP, and PVP feeds PVE
It really turns PVP into a different beast and removes the emotive elements from ganking and PVP and makes it attractive even to those not normally interested in PVP.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Having tried all of the indie sandboxes, I think the main issue they have is being 'indie'. The games have fantastic ideas, and when you get in and try them you get this feeling of the game being on the edge of creating something special, but they fail to deliver usually due to budget constraints.
I think Xsyon looks fantastic on paper, and when I tried it out, I immediately started to get that sandbox community feeling and the feeling that I was in danger and needed to be careful everywhere I went. I joined a guild, and we started formulating our plans, and building our camp so we could survive. It was a team effort and two days into the game's life, we were all working together to build something bigger. However, the game was buggy and lacked several key features to make it play like a game, and not just a camping simulator.
Someone is going to get it right one of these times, and it will be the next EVE or maybe even bigger. No, not replacing EVE, but providing a ground-based sandbox for those of us who don't want to play in space as a ship avatar.
As for themeparks, what they are doing wrong now is not evolving. They are lingering under the idea that there is this perpetual market for WoW clones (something they can't even pull off correctly), and they are making these games increasingly shallow and boring.
What I am seeing in a lot of SWTOR post-launch threads is that an increasing number of themepark players are sick of the status quo, and they are demanding evolution. SWTOR will be around a long time. I don't think it will ever be the big giant hit everyone thought it would be, but it will be another MMO for those who like it, just like WoW, Lotro, Rift, etc. Bioware would have to spend more money than the game is ultimately worth to make the sweeping changes required to make it a truly next-gen evolved MMO.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Comments
I'm not sure you understand what a virtual world means. What he describes is spot on.
A virtual world is not a monolithic world. It is filled with adventure spots, long, short, tedious, fun, repetetive, single time, building... It is everything... you know just like the actual world.
A virtual world will have some things that only take a few minutes at a time and are fun. It will have things that need to be done repetitively - yes those farmers will always need rats killed. It will have simple tasks (again the rats) it will have more complex tasks (the evil people taking over the world). There is room for all of them in a virtual world.
Venge
Unfortunately the old adage "there's a sucker born every minute" applies
If the newer sandbox MMOs would stop trying to force non-consentual PvP down my thoat, I'd be far more inclined to actually play them.
Something closer to what SWG did, but with some work, would appeal to far more players than what FFA PvP rulesets do.
All the current sandboxes are either horrible(xyson, mortal etc) or purely pvp focused (darkfall). Whcih makes them both pretty sandless.
FFA pvp works fine when it IS NOT the focus of the game. Sort of like EVE has it but even more so.
Large safe civilized areas where you can go about your crafting and low risk/reward gathering and hunting. Something like large citites and their surounding controled forests are safe.
Higher risk/reward areas are pvp enabled however there is still harsh consequences for nonconsensual pvp. Like if someone kills you you and anyone you party with can kill them without consequences. The murder can be reported in town making them wanted and not able to enter citites for something like 48 hours per kill. If they murder enough people maybe an npc tracking and hit squad can be dispatched which you can accompany. Make anything they steal from you "marked" for a month and unsaleable to npc's and clearly visable to other players. Anyone who posseses your item can be killed by you/your party and anything fo theirs looted without the "mark". Anyone else who kills them can return the marked item to a bin in town for some kind of "good/paladin/holy/light" reputation which returns the item to you and earns them something at the same time. etc.
My point is make it very difficult and undesireable to do but still possbile if someone were very determined. This would cut down on gankers and make the act of killing someone a decision of risk vs rewards. Do I really want to be hunted for a month and be unable to enter towns for hours? etc. make it so nearly everyone would only make the decision to kill another player if they knew they were carrying something very valuable, otherwise it would not be worth the hassle and risk.
Interesting ideas, many of which echo mechanics UO has used in the past or currently does use.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I agree with fargo's points especially with reference to Eve mechanics. Eve is probably one of the most brutal pvp games out there and has been for many years, but if you know the rules of the game and understand when you become a tasty target and how to remedy that then the risk of ganking is extremely low. Its a strange and wonderfull relationship, everyone does PVE, some only do PVE, other as the bankroll for PVP activities. PVE feeds PVP, and PVP feeds PVE
It really turns PVP into a different beast and removes the emotive elements from ganking and PVP and makes it attractive even to those not normally interested in PVP.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Having tried all of the indie sandboxes, I think the main issue they have is being 'indie'. The games have fantastic ideas, and when you get in and try them you get this feeling of the game being on the edge of creating something special, but they fail to deliver usually due to budget constraints.
I think Xsyon looks fantastic on paper, and when I tried it out, I immediately started to get that sandbox community feeling and the feeling that I was in danger and needed to be careful everywhere I went. I joined a guild, and we started formulating our plans, and building our camp so we could survive. It was a team effort and two days into the game's life, we were all working together to build something bigger. However, the game was buggy and lacked several key features to make it play like a game, and not just a camping simulator.
Someone is going to get it right one of these times, and it will be the next EVE or maybe even bigger. No, not replacing EVE, but providing a ground-based sandbox for those of us who don't want to play in space as a ship avatar.
As for themeparks, what they are doing wrong now is not evolving. They are lingering under the idea that there is this perpetual market for WoW clones (something they can't even pull off correctly), and they are making these games increasingly shallow and boring.
What I am seeing in a lot of SWTOR post-launch threads is that an increasing number of themepark players are sick of the status quo, and they are demanding evolution. SWTOR will be around a long time. I don't think it will ever be the big giant hit everyone thought it would be, but it will be another MMO for those who like it, just like WoW, Lotro, Rift, etc. Bioware would have to spend more money than the game is ultimately worth to make the sweeping changes required to make it a truly next-gen evolved MMO.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.