So what do you suggest?... play the same gameplay over and over again just because there's such a large community of sheep that will buy anything that's new and popular?
I am suggesting his argument that people want constant innovation is false
I'm tired of hearing negatives about SWTOR. It does not suck at all. It just isn't for everyone. There are plenty of other games out there for you to try. I suggest World of Warcraft. Also I noticed many of the OPs complaints are also present in WoW. Kinda funny. Druids have the same speed advantage for CTF, and priests have power word shield. What is the difference there?
Yeah it is annoying to be knocked into the acid pool or fire. You have to save your CD just to get out of that. I'll agree some classes have advantages for ball carrying right now. How long has the game been out though? Like 2 weeks?
SWTOR may not be the most innovative game but I'm really loving the flashpoints. Once in a while Huttball is nice when I'm bored with the questing. When the server goes down I play Skyrim.
I also do not see this game as a WoW clone. I am happy that some people think it is though, that should get rid of some of the kids from WoW. Maybe the TOR community has a chance to survive after all.
Edit: My only wish is that they add level brackets of some kind to warzones. I don't like how 3 level 50s look happy to see me when I come out of the rez zone. (I'm lvl 28 currently)
BATTLEGROUNDS Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so?
WORLD PVP Would like to see more of it
PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.
Because comparing a game released in 2004 with a game released in 2011 when WoW already has shown the way to others is a good comparison.
That's like giving you the answers to a pop quiz and you still can't get the answers correct on the test.
Swtor will be just another themepark end game raiding mmo with new raids added every few months and nothing else. this is one mmo i wont be paying 15 bucks a month to play. if i wanted to play an mmo like this i would just play wow because wow does this kind of content the best. i cant believe that a star wars mmo end game is raiding, they must have some bright sparks at bioware to come up with this kind of original content. i was giving swtor the benefit of the doubt but now i'll say it...wow clone.
I am suggesting his argument that people want constant innovation is false
The fact that you would use evidence of the "Transformers" movies to debunk his argument makes me question your (awful) train of though.
Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.
It's the same with games.
We're a niche market to begin with. This is an intense hobby for many. Guess what, many don't want the "Transformers" equivalent of an MMO because that is the movie you watch once and only once (unless you're a 13 year old boy).
The evidence speaks for itself - games like EVE have a tight knit community, keep sucking in people repeatedly even if they feel the game isn't right for them, and have steady if slow growth over the years.
Whereas generic games just become revolving doors. Every now and then I read the RIFT forums and I see no familiar faces. It's a revolving door MMO, that's what it is. People enter while the ones inside leave. Then the cycle repeats itself.
I don't expect you to understand any of this so don't feel bad if you don't.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.
Elitist bullshit argument number five thousand eight hundred and twenty three. Movies that are innovative and held in high esteem win awards at film festivals and get slaughtered at the box offce. Companies with any sense at all do not make movies or games almost no one wants to pay for. For every EVE there are a hundred Ryzoms.
That's the risk a creator must take when creating a quality product.
I feel sorry for you that you feel you must settle for something because it is safer and/or more profitable.
Your argument is exactly what is wrong with the world today... it's not about making a quality product anymore, it's solely about raking in $$$.
Those movies that win awards at film festivals? They stand the test of time. People have already forgotten Transformers which is why they flocked to see the 3rd installment.
Anyway, this whole comparison is stupid (as I pointed out to that poster) because these are 2 very different industries. Of course, it clearly slid off you as well, so I will not make a big deal about it.
I understand if you don't.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
BATTLEGROUNDS Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so?
WORLD PVP Would like to see more of it
PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.
Because comparing a game released in 2004 with a game released in 2011 when WoW already has shown the way to others is a good comparison.
That's like giving you the answers to a pop quiz and you still can't get the answers correct on the test.
WoW's PVP in 2004 was far superior to what it is now.
Cause there was no Battlegrounds the world was full of people making their own battlegrounds. From people fighting at Tarren Mill to groups dedicating themselves to protecting lowbies to City Raids every weekend. Then Battlegrounds came in and took all the players away from doing that because Blizzard never gave a reason to world PVP.
Seven years on and world PVP still has no reason to it, they haven't even bothered. Surely they could let people capture contested territory, funny how it is contested and you cannot fight for it :S All MMOs do now is battlegrounds and ignore world PVP, Ilum is just AV from WoW with all PVE objectives and it sucks.
The whole Keep RVR in WAR was amazing in beta, had 600 people fights for objectives that were PVP based and not PVE like SWTOR's Ilum. Problem with that game is they made battlegrounds better than the Keep captures and the world PVP died. Also the world designed sucked, they only needed Tier 4 and to get rid of the rest tbh.
the issue is the easness of getting pro pvp gear at 50 (both faction ignore eachother)it wasnt meant to work this way ,now they ll have to add a condition saying you need to kill 20 of opposite faction or so to force this!only light at the end of the tunnel is world raid pvp this is very intensive (when it work)if they make it spawn at specific time ,this could solve a lot of issue bio has,just put better reward here and issue fixed for end game gear!would slow down progression but it would be way more fun!
So, it's really similar to BGs in every other game, at any given time half of the people are standing around doing nothing? Playing for rewards instead of for competition?
I think you've made a shocking discovery, that MMO players as a group will always seek and use the path of least resistance.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
BATTLEGROUNDS Launching with three is fine for now WOW launched with zero, oh you dont remember? Ya and classes have unique abilities giving them diferent advantages in different situations......so?
WORLD PVP Would like to see more of it
PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting but there are not that many 50's yet so everyone knows everyone maybe it will change when the zerg arrives.
WOW was fun at launch. They are ruining it as they go along though.
All I have to say to the OP is that "I Don't Care!"
PvP is not the focus of this game and IMO PvP ruins most games. The only two games I've played where I felt that PvP was done right was in SWG and DAoC. Also, I could care less about getting the best gear! That's all a mindset that WoW brought into the genre, and I don't care for it.
I only play this game to experience the story-based content.
I'm a Sith Marauder, a class that many considered underpowered, but I do fine in the warzones and I don't find lvl 50's to be that much of a nuisance. Hey, the got to level 50 and earned it. I never had a problem with Jedi being and alpha class in SWG, and I don't have a problem with PvPing with higher levels, since our health and dmg is boosted. Just think of this in RPing terms. You're not as "skilled" in the art of combat or the force as others you're fighting against, so it takes more to take down a more skilled oppenent. Anakin and Obi-wan had to double team a Sith Lord when they weren't as powerful and no one batted an eyelash towards that.
The fact that you would use evidence of the "Transformers" movies to debunk his argument makes me question your (awful) train of though.
Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.
the money of the masses is just as good as the money of the "true hardcorz!!11"
this statement is exactly what is going on on illum
nothing more nothing less it is exploit,what tick me off is when they make change they wont remove pro gear and put everybody =term.it might annoy the end game first but it would equalise change cause when they make change the end game pvp guy will chime in a prevent the other following behind.all because bioware made another mistake by thinking pvp would happen by itself lol.
Illum has some of that, but the majority are about fighting each other. At least on my server. This site is so full of vocal minorities, whining because they cant win a pixelated fight. It s not that bad on Illum or in the warzones.
did you check the game braker video (start at the first dot or so!)you see them each side going their merry way why would they bother they get their max pvp geart without fighting (screw fighting)i would do the same,and then those guys once pvp geared will come and prevent lower level from doing the same.bw should for pvp by forcing each pvp a certain amount i dont mean win but i mean engage say 5 per time you kill one of your needed stuff want to loot it?got to engage 5 enemy!or such thing!i dont mean win but at least make a show of pvp gees
did you check the game braker video (start at the first dot or so!)you see them each side going their merry way why would they bother they get their max pvp geart without fighting (screw fighting)i would do the same,and then those guys once pvp geared will come and prevent lower level from doing the same.bw should for pvp by forcing each pvp a certain amount i dont mean win but i mean engage say 5 per time you kill one of your needed stuff want to loot it?got to engage 5 enemy!or such thing!i dont mean win but at least make a show of pvp gees
I don t need a video, I play it instead. It s not as bad as people are saying, at least not on my server. I m sure I m not on the only server to be this way. Also the pvp gear does not make a huge difference, a difference sure, but not enough to make a good player beat a player who really has no idea how to play his char, except a few buttons. As I said, it s not as bad as people are saying at all, but then again I guess a video knows all.
1. Most would be happier in some form of tab target FPS rather than a RPG
2. Most people who join the PVP server have no intent on open world PVP unless it proves to be better loot and faster leveling than questing...rather than pvp for the enjoyment of it
Im steadily becoming convinced that a large portion of mmorpg players would be far happier playing another multiplayer onine game type, rather than RPG...its seems everything RPG seems to be the enemy these days. This is strange since there are so many other options out there.
SWTOR pvp sucks because its not FPS/CTF/Deathmatch enough is what i have gatherd here.
Yes 10-50 grouping is good.....says who, St. Claus ? Maybe get in and play lvl 15 toon and have more than half of your opponents as lvl 50. You could go afk and it would not change the gameplay round....it is irritating that people defend this . Its not not understandable, since its natural that you would see the flaws here.
Theres nothing wrong with it at all. People make a big deal out of it, As a matter of fact when I was 15 ish I never even looked at the opponents levels. I was fighting. I won my fair share, and it s not hard to beat many higher then you.
The problem is not the level, it's the gear! There is now way you could win a fight against a top geared level 50 that knows what he is doing!
Try playing a level 80 in the 80-85 bracket in Wow and see what happens: you get brutally savaged by level 85 players who have almost double the HP you do and top end gear to boot.
SWTOR PVP is more "fairly" balanced than most games and while I found it more diufficult to beat level 50's it wasn't impossible - at some point most people will be level 50 anyway so it won't matter.
The only advanatge I've seen are with Force users in Huttball - this is true. The ability to force run and jump gives you a clear advantage in this match no doubt.
PVP in SWTOR is the most fun I've had ever and eventually things will even out as people hit level cap. If you still think it's bad - roll a toon in Wow and give those BG's a try for a most "unbalanced" experience
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
The PvP in this game is downright awful from what I have heard. Balance issues aside, BW has been incredibly naive in their approach to PvP.
Blizzard learned in 2008 that servers will co-operate even in PvP and trade the zone back and forth to get the reward. Therefore, they intervened and fixed it by tweaking how the rewards worked.
What you describe in SWTOR is similar in nature -- but BW has the inexpertise or lack of knowledge to not even think their PvP model is broken.
Let's not even touch the Warzone level thing. As I said earlier, some very "special" individual at BioWare head office must have been on something when they decided to lump all players for WZ.
What a downright dumb idea.
Maybe you should actually PLAY the game before making an uninformed and innacurate comment - you'll look smarter
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Comments
I don't need to play to determine that no bracket PvP is the dumbest idea ever.
I don't need to play to determine that Ilum is a hot mess because of its stupid design.
I don't need to play to determine that the clunky combat is an utter hindrance in PvP.
I'm sorry that you have to play to find all of this out. I guess having experience from past MMOs is helpful now and then.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
10-50 grouping is stupid, you just get slaughtered by higher levels.
I am suggesting his argument that people want constant innovation is false
You just dont know what you are talking about thats all
I'm tired of hearing negatives about SWTOR. It does not suck at all. It just isn't for everyone. There are plenty of other games out there for you to try. I suggest World of Warcraft. Also I noticed many of the OPs complaints are also present in WoW. Kinda funny. Druids have the same speed advantage for CTF, and priests have power word shield. What is the difference there?
Yeah it is annoying to be knocked into the acid pool or fire. You have to save your CD just to get out of that. I'll agree some classes have advantages for ball carrying right now. How long has the game been out though? Like 2 weeks?
SWTOR may not be the most innovative game but I'm really loving the flashpoints. Once in a while Huttball is nice when I'm bored with the questing. When the server goes down I play Skyrim.
I also do not see this game as a WoW clone. I am happy that some people think it is though, that should get rid of some of the kids from WoW. Maybe the TOR community has a chance to survive after all.
Edit: My only wish is that they add level brackets of some kind to warzones. I don't like how 3 level 50s look happy to see me when I come out of the rez zone. (I'm lvl 28 currently)
Because comparing a game released in 2004 with a game released in 2011 when WoW already has shown the way to others is a good comparison.
That's like giving you the answers to a pop quiz and you still can't get the answers correct on the test.
Swtor will be just another themepark end game raiding mmo with new raids added every few months and nothing else. this is one mmo i wont be paying 15 bucks a month to play. if i wanted to play an mmo like this i would just play wow because wow does this kind of content the best. i cant believe that a star wars mmo end game is raiding, they must have some bright sparks at bioware to come up with this kind of original content. i was giving swtor the benefit of the doubt but now i'll say it...wow clone.
The fact that you would use evidence of the "Transformers" movies to debunk his argument makes me question your (awful) train of though.
Here's a clue - the true people who watch movies as a hobbie and not as a throwaway event now and then do watch and typically hold the innovative movies in higher esteem.
It's the same with games.
We're a niche market to begin with. This is an intense hobby for many. Guess what, many don't want the "Transformers" equivalent of an MMO because that is the movie you watch once and only once (unless you're a 13 year old boy).
The evidence speaks for itself - games like EVE have a tight knit community, keep sucking in people repeatedly even if they feel the game isn't right for them, and have steady if slow growth over the years.
Whereas generic games just become revolving doors. Every now and then I read the RIFT forums and I see no familiar faces. It's a revolving door MMO, that's what it is. People enter while the ones inside leave. Then the cycle repeats itself.
I don't expect you to understand any of this so don't feel bad if you don't.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
WoW's PVP in 2004 was far superior to what it is now.
Cause there was no Battlegrounds the world was full of people making their own battlegrounds. From people fighting at Tarren Mill to groups dedicating themselves to protecting lowbies to City Raids every weekend. Then Battlegrounds came in and took all the players away from doing that because Blizzard never gave a reason to world PVP.
Seven years on and world PVP still has no reason to it, they haven't even bothered. Surely they could let people capture contested territory, funny how it is contested and you cannot fight for it :S All MMOs do now is battlegrounds and ignore world PVP, Ilum is just AV from WoW with all PVE objectives and it sucks.
The whole Keep RVR in WAR was amazing in beta, had 600 people fights for objectives that were PVP based and not PVE like SWTOR's Ilum. Problem with that game is they made battlegrounds better than the Keep captures and the world PVP died. Also the world designed sucked, they only needed Tier 4 and to get rid of the rest tbh.
the issue is the easness of getting pro pvp gear at 50 (both faction ignore eachother)it wasnt meant to work this way ,now they ll have to add a condition saying you need to kill 20 of opposite faction or so to force this!only light at the end of the tunnel is world raid pvp this is very intensive (when it work)if they make it spawn at specific time ,this could solve a lot of issue bio has,just put better reward here and issue fixed for end game gear!would slow down progression but it would be way more fun!
So, it's really similar to BGs in every other game, at any given time half of the people are standing around doing nothing? Playing for rewards instead of for competition?
I think you've made a shocking discovery, that MMO players as a group will always seek and use the path of least resistance.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WOW was fun at launch. They are ruining it as they go along though.
==================================================
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
All I have to say to the OP is that "I Don't Care!"
PvP is not the focus of this game and IMO PvP ruins most games. The only two games I've played where I felt that PvP was done right was in SWG and DAoC. Also, I could care less about getting the best gear! That's all a mindset that WoW brought into the genre, and I don't care for it.
I only play this game to experience the story-based content.
I'm a Sith Marauder, a class that many considered underpowered, but I do fine in the warzones and I don't find lvl 50's to be that much of a nuisance. Hey, the got to level 50 and earned it. I never had a problem with Jedi being and alpha class in SWG, and I don't have a problem with PvPing with higher levels, since our health and dmg is boosted. Just think of this in RPing terms. You're not as "skilled" in the art of combat or the force as others you're fighting against, so it takes more to take down a more skilled oppenent. Anakin and Obi-wan had to double team a Sith Lord when they weren't as powerful and no one batted an eyelash towards that.
the money of the masses is just as good as the money of the "true hardcorz!!11"
PVP on ILLUM Sounds like everyones exploiting
this statement is exactly what is going on on illum
nothing more nothing less it is exploit,what tick me off is when they make change they wont remove pro gear and put everybody =term.it might annoy the end game first but it would equalise change cause when they make change the end game pvp guy will chime in a prevent the other following behind.all because bioware made another mistake by thinking pvp would happen by itself lol.
Illum has some of that, but the majority are about fighting each other. At least on my server. This site is so full of vocal minorities, whining because they cant win a pixelated fight. It s not that bad on Illum or in the warzones.
did you check the game braker video (start at the first dot or so!)you see them each side going their merry way why would they bother they get their max pvp geart without fighting (screw fighting)i would do the same,and then those guys once pvp geared will come and prevent lower level from doing the same.bw should for pvp by forcing each pvp a certain amount i dont mean win but i mean engage say 5 per time you kill one of your needed stuff want to loot it?got to engage 5 enemy!or such thing!i dont mean win but at least make a show of pvp gees
I don t need a video, I play it instead. It s not as bad as people are saying, at least not on my server. I m sure I m not on the only server to be this way. Also the pvp gear does not make a huge difference, a difference sure, but not enough to make a good player beat a player who really has no idea how to play his char, except a few buttons. As I said, it s not as bad as people are saying at all, but then again I guess a video knows all.
It's biowares first mmo, give them a break. Will be better next time.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
Imo, there should be no PVP rewards, at least for world PVP, in the first place.
It is a poor design choice.
Two problems with the themepark pvp crowd.
1. Most would be happier in some form of tab target FPS rather than a RPG
2. Most people who join the PVP server have no intent on open world PVP unless it proves to be better loot and faster leveling than questing...rather than pvp for the enjoyment of it
Im steadily becoming convinced that a large portion of mmorpg players would be far happier playing another multiplayer onine game type, rather than RPG...its seems everything RPG seems to be the enemy these days. This is strange since there are so many other options out there.
SWTOR pvp sucks because its not FPS/CTF/Deathmatch enough is what i have gatherd here.
The problem is not the level, it's the gear! There is now way you could win a fight against a top geared level 50 that knows what he is doing!
Try playing a level 80 in the 80-85 bracket in Wow and see what happens: you get brutally savaged by level 85 players who have almost double the HP you do and top end gear to boot.
SWTOR PVP is more "fairly" balanced than most games and while I found it more diufficult to beat level 50's it wasn't impossible - at some point most people will be level 50 anyway so it won't matter.
The only advanatge I've seen are with Force users in Huttball - this is true. The ability to force run and jump gives you a clear advantage in this match no doubt.
PVP in SWTOR is the most fun I've had ever and eventually things will even out as people hit level cap. If you still think it's bad - roll a toon in Wow and give those BG's a try for a most "unbalanced" experience
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Maybe you should actually PLAY the game before making an uninformed and innacurate comment - you'll look smarter
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.