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General: Beam Me Up, Please

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  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    Lol...I think that was one of your best works.  So many priceless lines.

    Nice job.

    /thumbs up

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Druid_UKDruid_UK Member Posts: 58

    Originally posted by Adamai

     " Plenty of good stuff "

     

    +10 Internets

    -----
    Pay-to-Win / F2P will be the death of real gaming, Boycott it !!

  • SkeltemSkeltem Member Posts: 68

    Usually I enjoy this column.

     What comes up sour with this is that MMORPG.com seem to be bound by contract to mention at least once in any article a game I don't play, not want to play and really really annoys the sh*t our of me beause of its ubiquity.

     

    And I don't mean WoW.

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  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    You completely missed it with this diatribe Coyote.  It is not space or fantasy or steampunk or whatever, it is the themeparks that hold your hand every step of the way.  There is no challenge in any of these games anymore.  No wonder everyone gets bored with them with just a month or two to play.   Players should never be hitting end game within a few weeks of purchasing the game.  There is no journey anymore.

    Just because a developer uses a space theme instead of a fantasy theme will not fix your problem.

     

  • ammoniteammonite Member Posts: 113

    Hey! Now I have to worry about keeping my phone in my pocket. :D

    Great column and thanks for the laughs.

     

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  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    I'm with Oz on this one.

    I think you've missed the mark on this article, Wolf. I agree with the problem (MMOs becoming watered down). I disagree with your suggestion of what the problem is (too many dragons, not enough laser blasters).

    You talk about needing something to save us from watered down MMOs and then offer up Sci-Fi as the solution.

    The two aren't mutually exclusive. There's no such thing as "it's either Sci-Fi, or it's watered-down". One has no relation to the other.

    Sci-Fi is a genre. Not a gameplay design or playstyle. You can have a watered-down Sci-Fi MMO every bit as much as you can have a watered-down Fantasy MMO. 

    What's going to save the MMO scene from watered-down MMOs is for developers to stop developing them, and return to making them larger, grander, more complex, detailed and many-layered virtual _worlds_ rather than just _games_. 

    They have to cut back on the hand-holding, stop spelling everything out for the player so all that's left to do is connect the brightly colored and clearly marked dots, and put the player back into the equation. Let the player actually become part of the experience again. In their search to create the ultimate "accessible" MMO, developers have all but removed the player from the equation.

    In these newer MMOs, you're not treated as an actual inhabitant of the world anymore. The world is practically superficial in many newer MMOs. It's just a backdrop against which to hoard "loot" and "levels". You're not an active participant. You're a tourist following a virtual tour-guide from point to point, NPC to NPC, quest hub to quest hub. I'm not saying they should remove all indicators or make things vague so players are left aimlessly wandering the landscape... but at least let them be involved beyond pressing 'W' on their keyboard, steering with their mouse, killing the occasional creature and clicking on an item.

    Frankly, there will always be people using online guides to spell out and walk them through every task, fight or quest regardless. But at least it's not the game doing it, and those of us who want to actually feel like active participants in these worlds can do so without feeling like we're fighting the will of the designers every step of the way.

    I say, regardless of the genre, what the MMO scene *really* needs is a return to creating virtual worlds containing a series of activities players can choose to participate in, or not participate in... Stop designing them as just "games". 

    And FFS, stop treating every player like a fragile little child that has to be coddled, hand-held and guided every damn step of the way. Stop feeling compelled to reward the player for every damn little thing they do. Don't be afraid to require players to earn their rewards.

    Here's something to ponder: Why is it that older MMOs could keep players engaged and playing for years, easily, meanwhile most newer MMOs can barely keep players for more than a few months? What gives those older MMOs so much more longevity for their players?

    It has nothing to do with "the scarcity of MMOs back then", so I hope no one tries that argument. People don't stick around for years in MMOs they don't like, and there was always the option to not play any MMO at all. 

    Being someone who has gotten to experience MMOs from both "eras" and seen the differences between them, I can say that it - at least in part - definitely has to do with older MMOs sticking closer to what I described above. They were worlds, not just games. They kept the players more involved in solving their own problems, finding their own paths and accomplishing their own goals; they didn't spell everything out and guide you every step of the way.


    Give players more meaningful choice. Now, I don't mean "meaningful" in terms of how they affect the game world around them, etc. etc. That's been tried and, frankly, I just don't think it's truly achievable in MMOs without negatively affecting some other aspect of it. When I say "meaningful choices", I mean meaningful in how they choose to develop their character, and not only in stats, but in reputation, in which paths they choose to take through the world - stop making the games linear. Give players multiple options to choose from and let them decide which one to take.  And so on.


     


    As I said above, put the players back into the equation.


     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

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  • FaelanFaelan Member UncommonPosts: 819

    Hilarious article.

     

    However, I don't think the problem is fantasy being overdone in general. I think the problem is that it's the same subgenre of fantasy (Tolkien inspired) being done in the same way (WoW style themepark) ad nauseam.

     

    The fantasy genre is full of interesting settings that are devoid of elves and dragons. Heck, Star Wars is really just a fantasy setting dressed up to look like scifi.

     

    Still, even if we take a setting that does include elves and other such Tolkien trappings, putting a new gameplay spin on it would make it seem fresh IMHO. Imagine an MMO based on the old Birthright D&D setting. Still pretty much traditional fantasy, but it would feature completely different gameplay where you would rule domains and lead armies against other players. It could basically be a fantasy EVE on stereoids with strong strategy elements with big battles taking place like they do in the Total War series of games. There would still be elves and such, but I bet that would feel completely different from any of the current fantasy MMOs around.

    I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    I'd like nothing more than to see a really great space-based MMO, but there's nothing out there that does it for me.  Aside from Star Trek, which is pretty lame and EVE, which while damned good at what it does, doesn't do what I want it to do, there's nothing else out there really.  Somebody make Traveler Online and I'll be all over it.  Too bad Mechwarrior will be limited to a tactical simulator instead of a full blown MMO.  The Battletech universe would be a perfect backdrop for a good and proper MMORPG.

  • SwankdSwankd Member UncommonPosts: 236

    Elves have not died yet. Period

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  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,839

    More snarky blowhard irreverance!

     

    This one was as difficult as the classic 'shooting fish in a barrel'.   Yet you missed.  Missed by identifying the trappings as what was important, not the substance.   Starship yes, dragon no.  Vulcans yes, elves no.

     

    Many games just don't build a good world, one with internal consistancy, good story, mystery, something worthwhile to do, etc.    Short an already established player base, failing at building an interesting place to be will end up with lack of interest...in being there.

     

    Of course, lots of folks like different aspects, so there's room for a lot of different takes on things in the modern MMOsphere.   But essentially replacing character skins does not suddenly improve a lackluster game.   Bad world building and game design knows no such puny limits.  

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • DamonDamon Member UncommonPosts: 170

    Great article.  Still love the humor.

  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 766

    Droids are the new elves.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564



    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    This one was as difficult as the classic 'shooting fish in a barrel'.   Yet you missed.  Missed by identifying the trappings as what was important, not the substance.   Starship yes, dragon no.  Vulcans yes, elves no.

    Many games just don't build a good world, one with internal consistancy, good story, mystery, something worthwhile to do, etc.    Short an already established player base, failing at building an interesting place to be will end up with lack of interest...in being there.

    Of course, lots of folks like different aspects, so there's room for a lot of different takes on things in the modern MMOsphere.   But essentially replacing character skins does not suddenly improve a lackluster game.   Bad world building and game design knows no such puny limits.  

    Excellent points. Much of what you said (particularly regarding internally consistent world design, etc) are things I've noticed and pointed out for some time now as well. Quite cool to see it echoed by others.

    And I agree... that is part of what is making some of these newer MMOs less compelling in the long term. As I noted in my previous post here, the worlds themselves are little more than pretty backdrops for people to level and loot against.

    Many MMO worlds don't feel very "world-like" these days.


     

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • balduranbgbalduranbg Member Posts: 23

    I miss THAC0 *sob*

  • FierytexFierytex Member Posts: 20

    What I would give to to have Scotty--or anyone--beam me up to my ship in SWTOR...

     

    (aka SWTOR needs Scotty) (and Vulcans)

     

    live long and pr --  erm, I mean may the force be with you.

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