Don't see what the issue is. It's just the term they are using to make sure people understand that it is for the e-sports people just like WoW's battlegrounds are.
When was WoW ever made with e-sports in mind? I don't see where that comparison came from Xzen.
Maybe he has no idea what Esports are
If you think there isn't a group of people that play WoW's battleground as an e-sport and trying to get blizz to put in all the tools to make it easier for them to hold tournaments you are living under a rock.
And there's a reason why Blizz can't be arsed to implement those tools, to make WoW into more of an e-sport. Because the majority of people that are into e-sports don't view WoW as an e-sport. The biggest factor, beyond the whole gear-dependancy issue is that the game is just not interesting to watch. I got into Starcraft 2 by watching the watching well commentated competitive matches and after only watching a few vids I could understand the various strategies these pro players use. Whereas with WoW, no matter how many tournament vids I may watch, it just looks like a mess of numbers and skill icons.
If I can't spectate and learn some pro tactics from a well commentated game and understand why the players are doing what they are doing, then the game just fails as an e-sport.
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
Some mmorpgs call themselve revolutionary and the best... doesn't mean i have to follow suit.
Lets be honest their "competitive pvp" are battlegrounds. But they want to market them otherwise.
I am not one to let others change my thinking or the dialog with rhetoric and marketing. So i ask agian can we just call it instanced pvp or BGs.
If not thats fine, everyone is free to do as they wish; just as i am free to encourage people to reject such marketing ploys.
Semantics games over what a game developer calls a game feature? Seriously? If they called it Battleground PvP, you'd then likely be posting about how unoriginal they are in copying the term Blizzard uses for instanced PvP.
Yes, it's instanced PvP, but it's seperate from the PvE/WvW character progression, everyone has max level, equalized gear and full access to their profession skills. Rather than gear and level grind dictating a large portion of a players competitive advantage, in GW2 competitive PvP, it's all about player skill in an otherwise equalized environment. Yes, there will be access to casual matches so people can play just to have fun, but there will also be formalized, competitive match structures, with the intent of offering ladder based tournaments with cash prizes.
To equate them to WoW BGs, or any other slap on, instanced PvP content is a bit disingenuous. If anything, Arenanet has shown great tact and restraint in not over-hyping the feature with something more grandiose than "competitive PvP".
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
No. It's just a crowd that wants an MMO to be a part of e-sports scene and WoW just happens to be the most well-known MMO they are playing. Doesn't matter if people watch livestreams. I watch and enjoy some Rift PvP videos and yet I know the game's PvP is absolute garbage and should never be considered an e-sport just because it's instanced-based. Yet there are also people playing Rift that want the game to have an e-sports scene.
Quite frankly I just don't see moments like this, happening from people viewing a WoW PvP match. I'll re-iterate that the game is just too hard to understand at a moment's glance.
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
No. It's just a crowd that wants an MMO to be a part of e-sports scene and WoW just happens to be the most well-known MMO they are playing. Doesn't matter if people watch livestreams. I watch and enjoy some Rift PvP videos and yet I know the game's PvP is absolute garbage and should never be considered an e-sport just because it's instanced-based. Yet there are also people playing Rift that want the game to have an e-sports scene.
Quite frankly I just don't see moments like this, happening from people viewing a WoW PvP match. I'll re-iterate that the game is just too hard to understand at a moment's glance.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
No. It's just a crowd that wants an MMO to be a part of e-sports scene and WoW just happens to be the most well-known MMO they are playing. Doesn't matter if people watch livestreams. I watch and enjoy some Rift PvP videos and yet I know the game's PvP is absolute garbage and should never be considered an e-sport just because it's instanced-based. Yet there are also people playing Rift that want the game to have an e-sports scene.
Quite frankly I just don't see moments like this, happening from people viewing a WoW PvP match. I'll re-iterate that the game is just too hard to understand at a moment's glance.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
Can moments like those be done in WoW just curious?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
Well you can take my opinion as a grain of salt, but it still won't change the fact that WoW will never be seriously viewed as an e-sport and Blizzard would have done something already if they knew that their game would thrived as an e-sports, as Starcraft 1 & 2 already has. Well I think they tried before but it never really took off. It's really only ArenaNet that are taking the e-sports thing seriously and building their game's combat & PvP mechanics with e-sports in mind and it's shown. Well you can also count CCP, sort've, but those guys are nuts and even have matches of chess-boxing alongside their Eve e-sports matches. ^_^
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
No. It's just a crowd that wants an MMO to be a part of e-sports scene and WoW just happens to be the most well-known MMO they are playing. Doesn't matter if people watch livestreams. I watch and enjoy some Rift PvP videos and yet I know the game's PvP is absolute garbage and should never be considered an e-sport just because it's instanced-based. Yet there are also people playing Rift that want the game to have an e-sports scene.
Quite frankly I just don't see moments like this, happening from people viewing a WoW PvP match. I'll re-iterate that the game is just too hard to understand at a moment's glance.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
Can moments like those be done in WoW just curious?
Well let's be honest. That clip is only impresive to those of us that have played a lot of Street Fighter and understand that pulling off that last counter and having no health is pretty amazing.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
Well you can take my opinion as a grain of salt, but it still won't change the fact that WoW will never be seriously viewed as an e-sport and Blizzard would have done something already if they knew that their game would thrived as an e-sports, as Starcraft 1 & 2 already has. Well I think they tried before but it never really took off. It's really only ArenaNet that are taking the e-sports thing seriously and building their game's combat & PvP mechanics with e-sports in mind and it's shown. Well you can also count CCP, sort've, but those guys are nuts and even have matches of chess-boxing alongside their Eve e-sports matches. ^_^
It would thrive as an e-sport if blizzard would listen to the people that enjoy that type of PvP. I think you don't understand that I'm pretty much on your side and I know that Anet's going to have the tools in place for the e-sports crowd and be head and shoulders above WoW. The only point I was trying to make is that "Competitive PvP' is a good term for it because e-sports are competitive and that's the demographic for this type of PvP.
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
No. It's just a crowd that wants an MMO to be a part of e-sports scene and WoW just happens to be the most well-known MMO they are playing. Doesn't matter if people watch livestreams. I watch and enjoy some Rift PvP videos and yet I know the game's PvP is absolute garbage and should never be considered an e-sport just because it's instanced-based. Yet there are also people playing Rift that want the game to have an e-sports scene.
Quite frankly I just don't see moments like this, happening from people viewing a WoW PvP match. I'll re-iterate that the game is just too hard to understand at a moment's glance.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
Can moments like those be done in WoW just curious?
Well let's be honest. That clip is only impresive to those of us that have played a lot of Street Fighter and understand that pulling off that last counter and having no health is pretty amazing.
Yea it was and I was laughing a lot at peoples reeactions "WHOOOOOAAAAHHH!!!!!" every time that guy did his special move and it seems they disliked the chick for some reason ha ha.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
From what I understand, Guild Wars pioneered instanced pvp, even though SWG had some fumbling around with the idea of battle domes, I don't think those came into play till after CU. If I remember correctly CU came out in May of 05, and I know for a fact that isloated pvp wasn't a part of the patch notes. Now, World of Warcraft didn't release their "Battlegrounds" until June (I believe) of the same year.
So my question is: Why is it that people are comparing other forms of instanced pvp to "Battlegrounds", when in reality you should be comparing them to Guild Wars' "Arenas"?
If I had to guess it would have to be related to the "Hurr-Durr WoW was my first MMO" syndrome.
No..competitive pvp is the name Arenanet have given it, and I think it fits fine. There will be hot-joinable pvp, but Arenanet want to make it an e-sport and there will be no random teams at that level.
Ya, Anet also isn't using the term to be interchangeable with 'instanced pvp'. Their instanced pvp just happens to be designed with competitive players in mind (ie E-sports, guild matches, etc.)
No..competitive pvp is the name Arenanet have given it, and I think it fits fine. There will be hot-joinable pvp, but Arenanet want to make it an e-sport and there will be no random teams at that level.
Ya, Anet also isn't using the term to be interchangeable with 'instanced pvp'. Their instanced pvp just happens to be designed with competitive players in mind (ie E-sports, guild matches, etc.)
That's where the term comes from.
This is good other than it being just wrong.
Anet is using the term compeitive pvp for their ranked team vs team instanced or stuctured pvp.
Thus my point proven. Everyone even after pointed out is still calling GW2 instanced or stuctured pvp competitive, when Anet has clearly defineded that it is no and that their ranked system is.
But lets be honest, once again i got to see people say stuff like if i joined a game of b-ball could it not be conpetitive? YEs i agree that it can.
Then others says well this games instanced pvp is competitive because everyone is equal...
These ideas are oppossing , as no two people are equal in ability in B-ball; yet they game can still be competitive. Thus all other mmos with insatnced pvp is also competitive, by this standard.
And for the other group who maintian the game is competitive due to the equal footing toons get, then they must maintain that any real sport in real life is not by that standard.
This in fact proves that the games competitive nature is not based on any thing to do with the equal footing, but instead the team/matching system, or to a GREAT and more valid point all instanced pvp in every mmorpg is competitive. Thus well establishing my intial point (which was an accident , i orginally just wanted people to stop callign all pvp in gw2 competitve instead of structued) That this is mainly a marketing ploy, or in the least a non-organic a projection of desired effect.
In anycase i would rather reality determine the outcome, which it will indeed, tho words have power.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Has anyone actually argued that the teams don't make it competitive?
Things like equal gear, custom builds, racial equality, and rankings are there for a reason though. Kind of like the difference between Pee Wee Football and the NFL...
There is a difference in gear (medical needs), player selection, rankings based on populated areas, and the amount of plays you can run. The difference in GW2 is the same, and the arguement could be made for any sport. Especially E-Sport, just go ask League of Legends how competitive Summoners Rift is vs Twisted Treeline and Crystal Scar.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Can we stop using the term "competitive pvp" for "instanced pvp" or "group vs group pvp".
Most instanced pvp matchs are adhoc or pugs... i fail to see how that is competitve .
It depends on how you define comepetetive.
Arenas are in many ways the most competitetive form of PvP with long tournaments and so on.
I mean, ganking a noob in a open world isn't particularly competetive either kust like a PUGed battleground if not worse.
GW1 have arther competetive PvP at least with lists of all the best guilds, ranking and so on. Saying that ain't competetive is like saying sports isn't competetive.
Cali59 pretty much answered your question OP. How you make it sound, you also do not think basketball, football, soccer, etc., are also not competitive. Normal, everyday people play those games in their own little areas. Also, they will have major tournies with players fighting for prizes and such. That pretty much defines something being competitive in my book.
So if i am outside playing some B with my bros downing a few brews its competitive?
That answer to this is obviously no.
See it could be competitive, but for vast majority of the "competitive pvp" matches will be pugs just doing w/e.
Thus competitive pvp is not really anything different than a BG system wow currently has.
Lots of things are competitive or can be. Heck you can be a competitive eater. Does that mean every night when you sit down you ask your family are you ready for the competition ? No, once again rhetorical, lets be honest this a re-branding of an long existing game structure.
To use another posters example
"
Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?
If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive."
What happens if the dev of Gears said their next gears game is now an Competitive person shooter (CPS).
They changed nothing really from previous fps structures that allowed them to be competitive, just re-branded existing game-play/system with maybe more ladder display options.
Would you be like yeah we should call it CPS or .. yeah its just an FPS that is attempting to create hype / interest via marketing (it still can be competitve however)?
you need balance to be a sport / eSport, it took 10 years to evolve the metagame and balance starcraft 1 with only 3 races..., warcraft 3 with 4 races never got to the point of balance... sry but I don't see any MMO with 5+ races being an eSport...
it can be competitive, but I don't see it being an eSport
you need balance to be a sport / eSport, it took 10 years to evolve the metagame and balance starcraft 1 with only 3 races..., warcraft 3 with 4 races never got to the point of balance... sry but I don't see any MMO with 5+ races being an eSport...
it can be competitive, but I don't see it being an eSport
Interesting bro eleborate more, I'm all for opinions and would like to know more about balancing?
I'm little off though because racial abilities aren't in the competive PVP? Just a little bit off on what races have to do with the mode we are talking about since everyon gets same stats for the mode we should be talking about.
I'd like to know more of what you are talking about.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
you need balance to be a sport / eSport, it took 10 years to evolve the metagame and balance starcraft 1 with only 3 races..., warcraft 3 with 4 races never got to the point of balance... sry but I don't see any MMO with 5+ races being an eSport... it can be competitive, but I don't see it being an eSport
Interesting bro eleborate more, I'm all for opinions and would like to know more about balancing?
I'm little off though because racial abilities aren't in the competive PVP? Just a little bit off on what races have to do with the mode we are talking about since everyon gets same stats for the mode we should be talking about.
I'd like to know more of what you are talking about.
I believe that poster is confusing the term Race and Class.
In many real life sports, organizers do the same thing that Anet is planning to do with GW2
It is more common in sports like: Golf, Poker, Dominoes, Karate, Judo, etc. in which there are open qualifiers for everybody that wants to participate to show up and you don’t know who are you competing against. Notice, these qualifiers are full of bad players that need to be screen out prior they can qualify to the Pro tournaments.
If you do good or gain enough points in those qualifiers then you move up and play people at your rank. Otherwise, you stay behind.
Can we stop using the term "competitive pvp" for "instanced pvp" or "group vs group pvp".
Most instanced pvp matchs are adhoc or pugs... i fail to see how that is competitve .
In Guild Wars 1 you have Guild vs Guild with a monthly tournament. You always compete with other guilds for a ranking (if you decide to take part that is, there is also nonranked GvG). And each month certain guilds qualify to take part in a monthly tournament. How is that not competitive pvp?
They already have announced that there will be structured pvp in GW2 too with monthly tournaments (and maybe other periods havent checked lately).
As for the word 'competitive', its already competitive if two teams (or players) compete for a win. I agree though that strictly speaking, calling pvp competitive is like calling water wet.
As interesting as this all is, I just want to point out again that its official name is Structured PVP, not Competitive PVP.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Me too thast why the devs call that hot join not competitive....
The replies in the thread kinda prove my point.
I mean call it w/e but at this rate why change its name in the first place (other than marketing)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Me too thast why the devs call that hot join not competitive....
The replies in the thread kinda prove my point.
I mean call it w/e but at this rate why change its name in the first place (other than marketing)
Did you click on the link. Eric Flannum describes two kinds of PVP. WvWvW and Competitive PVP. Sorry but your not making any sense. They are marketing their Structured PVP as an e-sport because it is competitive.
Comments
While I agree with you that WoW battle grounds does not make for a great e-sport due to the constant balancing of classes and the lack of tools available for them to create private matches and tournaments. The fact remains that instanced battleground type PvP appeals largly to the e-sports crowd and there is a large group of them that do play WoW for the battlegrounds and watch livestreams and recorded matches.
My theme song.
Semantics games over what a game developer calls a game feature? Seriously? If they called it Battleground PvP, you'd then likely be posting about how unoriginal they are in copying the term Blizzard uses for instanced PvP.
Yes, it's instanced PvP, but it's seperate from the PvE/WvW character progression, everyone has max level, equalized gear and full access to their profession skills. Rather than gear and level grind dictating a large portion of a players competitive advantage, in GW2 competitive PvP, it's all about player skill in an otherwise equalized environment. Yes, there will be access to casual matches so people can play just to have fun, but there will also be formalized, competitive match structures, with the intent of offering ladder based tournaments with cash prizes.
To equate them to WoW BGs, or any other slap on, instanced PvP content is a bit disingenuous. If anything, Arenanet has shown great tact and restraint in not over-hyping the feature with something more grandiose than "competitive PvP".
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
No. It's just a crowd that wants an MMO to be a part of e-sports scene and WoW just happens to be the most well-known MMO they are playing. Doesn't matter if people watch livestreams. I watch and enjoy some Rift PvP videos and yet I know the game's PvP is absolute garbage and should never be considered an e-sport just because it's instanced-based. Yet there are also people playing Rift that want the game to have an e-sports scene.
Quite frankly I just don't see moments like this, happening from people viewing a WoW PvP match. I'll re-iterate that the game is just too hard to understand at a moment's glance.
What "YOU" want and like as far as e-sports are concerned doesn't have any thing to do with it. YOUR POV in no way invalidates the POV of the group of people that do want battle grounds in mmorpgs to have more tools for e-sports or the people that enjoy watching the matches as an e-sport.
My theme song.
Can moments like those be done in WoW just curious?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Well you can take my opinion as a grain of salt, but it still won't change the fact that WoW will never be seriously viewed as an e-sport and Blizzard would have done something already if they knew that their game would thrived as an e-sports, as Starcraft 1 & 2 already has. Well I think they tried before but it never really took off. It's really only ArenaNet that are taking the e-sports thing seriously and building their game's combat & PvP mechanics with e-sports in mind and it's shown. Well you can also count CCP, sort've, but those guys are nuts and even have matches of chess-boxing alongside their Eve e-sports matches. ^_^
Well let's be honest. That clip is only impresive to those of us that have played a lot of Street Fighter and understand that pulling off that last counter and having no health is pretty amazing.
My theme song.
It would thrive as an e-sport if blizzard would listen to the people that enjoy that type of PvP. I think you don't understand that I'm pretty much on your side and I know that Anet's going to have the tools in place for the e-sports crowd and be head and shoulders above WoW. The only point I was trying to make is that "Competitive PvP' is a good term for it because e-sports are competitive and that's the demographic for this type of PvP.
My theme song.
Yea it was and I was laughing a lot at peoples reeactions "WHOOOOOAAAAHHH!!!!!" every time that guy did his special move and it seems they disliked the chick for some reason ha ha.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
From what I understand, Guild Wars pioneered instanced pvp, even though SWG had some fumbling around with the idea of battle domes, I don't think those came into play till after CU. If I remember correctly CU came out in May of 05, and I know for a fact that isloated pvp wasn't a part of the patch notes. Now, World of Warcraft didn't release their "Battlegrounds" until June (I believe) of the same year.
So my question is: Why is it that people are comparing other forms of instanced pvp to "Battlegrounds", when in reality you should be comparing them to Guild Wars' "Arenas"?
If I had to guess it would have to be related to the "Hurr-Durr WoW was my first MMO" syndrome.
Ya, Anet also isn't using the term to be interchangeable with 'instanced pvp'. Their instanced pvp just happens to be designed with competitive players in mind (ie E-sports, guild matches, etc.)
That's where the term comes from.
This is good other than it being just wrong.
Anet is using the term compeitive pvp for their ranked team vs team instanced or stuctured pvp.
Thus my point proven. Everyone even after pointed out is still calling GW2 instanced or stuctured pvp competitive, when Anet has clearly defineded that it is no and that their ranked system is.
But lets be honest, once again i got to see people say stuff like if i joined a game of b-ball could it not be conpetitive? YEs i agree that it can.
Then others says well this games instanced pvp is competitive because everyone is equal...
These ideas are oppossing , as no two people are equal in ability in B-ball; yet they game can still be competitive. Thus all other mmos with insatnced pvp is also competitive, by this standard.
And for the other group who maintian the game is competitive due to the equal footing toons get, then they must maintain that any real sport in real life is not by that standard.
This in fact proves that the games competitive nature is not based on any thing to do with the equal footing, but instead the team/matching system, or to a GREAT and more valid point all instanced pvp in every mmorpg is competitive. Thus well establishing my intial point (which was an accident , i orginally just wanted people to stop callign all pvp in gw2 competitve instead of structued) That this is mainly a marketing ploy, or in the least a non-organic a projection of desired effect.
In anycase i would rather reality determine the outcome, which it will indeed, tho words have power.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Has anyone actually argued that the teams don't make it competitive?
Things like equal gear, custom builds, racial equality, and rankings are there for a reason though. Kind of like the difference between Pee Wee Football and the NFL...
There is a difference in gear (medical needs), player selection, rankings based on populated areas, and the amount of plays you can run. The difference in GW2 is the same, and the arguement could be made for any sport. Especially E-Sport, just go ask League of Legends how competitive Summoners Rift is vs Twisted Treeline and Crystal Scar.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
It depends on how you define comepetetive.
Arenas are in many ways the most competitetive form of PvP with long tournaments and so on.
I mean, ganking a noob in a open world isn't particularly competetive either kust like a PUGed battleground if not worse.
GW1 have arther competetive PvP at least with lists of all the best guilds, ranking and so on. Saying that ain't competetive is like saying sports isn't competetive.
So if i am outside playing some B with my bros downing a few brews its competitive?
That answer to this is obviously no.
See it could be competitive, but for vast majority of the "competitive pvp" matches will be pugs just doing w/e.
Thus competitive pvp is not really anything different than a BG system wow currently has.
Lots of things are competitive or can be. Heck you can be a competitive eater. Does that mean every night when you sit down you ask your family are you ready for the competition ? No, once again rhetorical, lets be honest this a re-branding of an long existing game structure.
To use another posters example
"
Well I must first ask have you played Gears of War 2-3? And if so do you think it's competitive?
If not, say so then I'll post you a link of some pvp in Gears of War 2 and then ask you do you think it's competitive."
What happens if the dev of Gears said their next gears game is now an Competitive person shooter (CPS).
They changed nothing really from previous fps structures that allowed them to be competitive, just re-branded existing game-play/system with maybe more ladder display options.
Would you be like yeah we should call it CPS or .. yeah its just an FPS that is attempting to create hype / interest via marketing (it still can be competitve however)?
That's called marketingPhilosophy of MMO Game Design
you need balance to be a sport / eSport, it took 10 years to evolve the metagame and balance starcraft 1 with only 3 races..., warcraft 3 with 4 races never got to the point of balance... sry but I don't see any MMO with 5+ races being an eSport...
it can be competitive, but I don't see it being an eSport
Interesting bro eleborate more, I'm all for opinions and would like to know more about balancing?
I'm little off though because racial abilities aren't in the competive PVP? Just a little bit off on what races have to do with the mode we are talking about since everyon gets same stats for the mode we should be talking about.
I'd like to know more of what you are talking about.
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P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
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Interesting bro eleborate more, I'm all for opinions and would like to know more about balancing?
I'm little off though because racial abilities aren't in the competive PVP? Just a little bit off on what races have to do with the mode we are talking about since everyon gets same stats for the mode we should be talking about.
I'd like to know more of what you are talking about.
I believe that poster is confusing the term Race and Class.Philosophy of MMO Game Design
In many real life sports, organizers do the same thing that Anet is planning to do with GW2
It is more common in sports like: Golf, Poker, Dominoes, Karate, Judo, etc. in which there are open qualifiers for everybody that wants to participate to show up and you don’t know who are you competing against. Notice, these qualifiers are full of bad players that need to be screen out prior they can qualify to the Pro tournaments.
If you do good or gain enough points in those qualifiers then you move up and play people at your rank. Otherwise, you stay behind.
That’s exacly what Anet is doing
Is it perfect? No, but it is competitive.
In Guild Wars 1 you have Guild vs Guild with a monthly tournament. You always compete with other guilds for a ranking (if you decide to take part that is, there is also nonranked GvG). And each month certain guilds qualify to take part in a monthly tournament. How is that not competitive pvp?
They already have announced that there will be structured pvp in GW2 too with monthly tournaments (and maybe other periods havent checked lately).
As for the word 'competitive', its already competitive if two teams (or players) compete for a win. I agree though that strictly speaking, calling pvp competitive is like calling water wet.
im guessing youre just not on that level.
As interesting as this all is, I just want to point out again that its official name is Structured PVP, not Competitive PVP.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I fail to see the point of this thread. It's hard to debate other peoples definition of what they want to see or call something.
The OP thinks that "PUG"= not competitive. Some will agree and some will disagree. I am good with how the developer describes it.
http://youtu.be/7r_oAx7zg98?t=10m51s
Me too thast why the devs call that hot join not competitive....
The replies in the thread kinda prove my point.
I mean call it w/e but at this rate why change its name in the first place (other than marketing)
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Did you click on the link. Eric Flannum describes two kinds of PVP. WvWvW and Competitive PVP. Sorry but your not making any sense. They are marketing their Structured PVP as an e-sport because it is competitive.