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This needs to be in a sticky not in a locked thread 4 pages back.

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Originally posted by Jimmac

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by Jimmac

    <>

    Who's complaining? Lighten up..

    My post was directed only towards those people who would like more moderation. The people who I consider to be complaining are the ones complaining that the moderators aren't moderating enough.

    I think a bigger issue is that positive no-no's have one line while negative no-no's have over a paragraph. The only positive no-no was what I quoted, there's no snip there, I actually snipped a whole paragraph from the negative part.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DarkholmeDarkholme Member UncommonPosts: 1,212

    Originally posted by returnintor

    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    Translated:

    You can post positive opinions on a game as many times as you like, but a negative one only once.

    Hmm... If those rules were rigidly enforced, mmorpg.com would devolve into a bunch of isolated fanboi game forums where you'd be hard pressed to find anything negative about any given game.

    There should be a rethink of this, I think.

    That is exactly right.

    It's no wonder that mmorpg.com is being referred to as a 'shillsite' in the IGN and Gamasutra sites.

    I'm not a fan of this site's community by any stretch of the imagination, but that statement is simply ridiculous, especially if they are truly sentiments that those two sites have. Pot, kettle, black much? Every site like this on the internet is out for their own self interest. I don't know a single site that I trust for straight up fair news and reviews on MMOGs with the possible exception of massively.com and even there some of their writers aren't capable of being unbiased and don't always represent their biases up front when they do reviews. I certainly wouldn't consider Gamasutra and especially IGN good sources for anything.

    As for the subject at hand. IMO it's a good policy if it was enforced at all, and enforced fairly. I do agree that there are a number of people that troll in the way described in the OP and for the most part have gotten away with it for a long time. It's annoying, and takes away from the community and makes mature, intelligent people not want to participate in the community...

     

    -------------------------
    "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

    Member Since March 2004

  • gandalesgandales Member UncommonPosts: 472

    Funny thing that borderline hypocritical. Most of games released in the last 3 years has been bashed(some of them basically to the death under even kind of crusade for justice to take the specific dev company out of business for desecrating an IP or whatever people take as a flag).

     

    So Now is when some people realize that this is bad, that games should succeed or fail on their own and not because gamers campaigns. Now, when it touch the game that those people like, now that practice happen to be bad. 

  • onthestickonthestick Member Posts: 600

    Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

    Translated:

    You can post positive opinions on a game as many times as you like, but a negative one only once.

    Hmm... If those rules were rigidly enforced, mmorpg.com would devolve into a bunch of isolated fanboi game forums where you'd be hard pressed to find anything negative about any given game.

    There should be a rethink of this, I think.

    I don't know what you read but that is clearly not what Mike B wrote. People see what they want to see. 

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

  • SQTOSQTO Member UncommonPosts: 189

    There is a difference between making a negative comment or review and what happens on this site where every single thread no matter what the topic has the same people posting the same negative things over and over making the thread go off topic.

    The thing is the only reason why they do this is because the game is popular and has a well known ip because look at all the other game forums on this site and they dont go to every single game they have a problem with and do this.

    What I find funny is the amount of time they invest into a game they dont like when they could be focusing on things that they do like but for some reason they feel threatened.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    A brand new, highly anticipated AAA title just launched, and it is clealy controversial on this site due to some of the design decisions.  The fever pitch of posts will die down on its own in a couple days as everyone plays it, or moves on with their lives.  

    No offense to anyone but many have been carrying on the same topics for months, in some cases years. I wonder how they get away with it considering what's in the OP.

    There is a limit to how much you can moderate a forum. Here you would be forced to ban every second poster or so, it just ain't possible.

    But yeah, there are some people that really should be banned for posting the same post over and over.

    Just expressing your opinion is another matter though, if you can't discuss what isn't good in a new game but just what is good it limits the discussing, even the best games have fault in them.

  • onthestickonthestick Member Posts: 600

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    A brand new, highly anticipated AAA title just launched, and it is clealy controversial on this site due to some of the design decisions.  The fever pitch of posts will die down on its own in a couple days as everyone plays it, or moves on with their lives.  

    No offense to anyone but many have been carrying on the same topics for months, in some cases years. I wonder how they get away with it considering what's in the OP.

    There is a limit to how much you can moderate a forum. Here you would be forced to ban every second poster or so, it just ain't possible.

    But yeah, there are some people that really should be banned for posting the same post over and over.

    Just expressing your opinion is another matter though, if you can't discuss what isn't good in a new game but just what is good it limits the discussing, even the best games have fault in them.

    Exactly, there is nothing wrong with posting negative comments people. You are most welcome to say  bad stuff you want to say as long as you explain your point in a mature and reasonable manner. But the problem is that some people here try to derail every single topic with same negativity. Camping forums of a game you dislike just to grief those who enjoy the game is pure trolling.

    And this rule applies to all the games and yes even GW2 and TSW very soon in future.

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Originally posted by Loke666

    O

    There is a limit to how much you can moderate a forum. Here you would be forced to ban every second poster or so, it just ain't possible.

    But yeah, there are some people that really should be banned for posting the same post over and over.

    Just expressing your opinion is another matter though, if you can't discuss what isn't good in a new game but just what is good it limits the discussing, even the best games have fault in them.

    Yeah i agree, it really would limit the discussion and IMO destroy this site. The more I think about these statements the more perplexed I get.

    Looking at these rules just about every thread that starts should be locked or deleted down to a handful of posts. It just seems like an impossible route of moderation, and again I have to ask what's the limit? How many times can something be said by the same person before moderation steps in?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • GuileplayerGuileplayer Member Posts: 418

    i suggest the mmo-champion approach. Every thread goes through a moderator review before appearing on the general chat. The need to implement this system here. Keeps the boards clean and you can actually discuss in- game mechanics.

    Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Member Posts: 1,277

    Positive and negative opinions aside, we all could be doing much better things with our time. We're all just lazy and bored.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • azmundaiazmundai Member UncommonPosts: 1,419

    I like how he misspelled articulates. Irony ftw.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    Positive and negative opinions aside, we all could be doing much better things with our time. We're all just lazy and bored.

    lol, way too goddamn true image

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403

    Originally posted by Jimmac

    Let others converse if they want to converse. Why do you want to stifle conversation? Why do you want to block what people have to say? If you don't like it, then don't engage in the conversation, but don't try to stop other people from engaging in conversation.

    There hasn't been any conversation for months.

    Lot of soapboxing, some preaching, some Crusading.  But does it qualify as conversation, when the same guy says essentially the same thing in virtually every post he makes?

    The trolling is getting worse, the baiting as well.  I know the mods are worn out.  The personal attacks (in the wee hours of the morning) tend to be off the charts.  Early this morning the "Fresh Alt" brigade is out in force ripping on each other.

    Where's the conversation?  Just a bunch of people concentrating on pushing the extremes as far as they possibly can.

    WoW General is in better shape than this forum.

     

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,061
    This site has never been a good one for info on games. Its usually just people whining about what a game doesn't have and the other side defending everything. For real info about a game its best to just use the official forums.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • DarkholmeDarkholme Member UncommonPosts: 1,212

    The site itself is perfectly fine, as long as you ignore 95%-100% of the forums and can read between the lines and are capable of forming your own opinions when reading the blogs and reviews...

    -------------------------
    "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"

    Member Since March 2004

  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,005

    I have noticed the boards become very active during the day when ppl are working and then really slows down to a hand ful of ppl bashing it when others are playing the game. So its quite good to have some forum PVP before you go and play the game at night,

    image

  • GibboniciGibbonici Member UncommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Distopia


    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    A brand new, highly anticipated AAA title just launched, and it is clealy controversial on this site due to some of the design decisions.  The fever pitch of posts will die down on its own in a couple days as everyone plays it, or moves on with their lives.  

    No offense to anyone but many have been carrying on the same topics for months, in some cases years. I wonder how they get away with it considering what's in the OP.

    There is a limit to how much you can moderate a forum. Here you would be forced to ban every second poster or so, it just ain't possible.

    But yeah, there are some people that really should be banned for posting the same post over and over.

    Just expressing your opinion is another matter though, if you can't discuss what isn't good in a new game but just what is good it limits the discussing, even the best games have fault in them.

    You're right, all games do have faults with them and SWTOR is no exception. The problem on these forums is that there'll never be a balanced discussion about it, because even if you enjoy the game any post you make that talks about possible improvements or issues you have will be hijacked by the half-dozen or so haters and used as proof that SWTOR is rubbish - "LOL even fanbois hate TOR!"

     

    So we end up with what we've got; a totally polarised flamefest that's useless to anyone except those with an agenda to push.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,004

    Originally posted by Distopia

    I just wonder where the limit is that's outlined by MIkeB. How do they gauge when a poster has said the same argument too much?

    Now here is the slippery slope, how exactly does a mod judge when someone has posted too often, or too negatively, or made things too personal?  There are probably no hard and fast guidelines, and it would be burdensome for mods to go through the forums trying to find posters by name and count up how many infractions they have, hence why you don't see all that much control.

    And despite the complaints by many in this thread that the forums are of poor quality due to a lack of proper moderation, you will see just as many folks stating the opposite, that the moderation here borders on facisim (yes, I know, hyperbole much) which I also don't agree with.

    See, that's the problem, for free speech to be truly free you can't put any limits on it, you have to take the good with the bad and if someone says something that really offends you, best idea is to just put them on ignore, or not even read the thread to begin with.

    I've seen about 5 or 6 posters on this thread complain bitterly about the forums here being "trash", and it makes me wonder why they bother reading/posting here at all?  I'm here because I enjoy the forums as they are, and I still maintain that trolling is an imaginary concept, there is only discussion regardless how people try to label it to stifle the conversation.

    Remember folks, trolls only exist in fantasy worlds, here on forums its just people enjoying a conversation, forum PVP if you will and it isn't for everyone I realize.

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    basicly no arguing?ok fine mikeb!i suggest this then

    add a an arguing channel for all our favorite mmo and add that live thread at the bottom of the website somewhere.

    so this way you would get regular channel *MENTIONNING IN BIG LETTER NO ARGUING ALLOWED! and a similar bottom channel saying ARGUING ALLOWED!this way everybodys happy!

  • JimmacJimmac Member UncommonPosts: 1,667

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Distopia

    <>

    <>

    See, that's the problem, for free speech to be truly free you can't put any limits on it, you have to take the good with the bad and if someone says something that really offends you, best idea is to just put them on ignore, or not even read the thread to begin with.

    <>

     

    Exactly. I don't understand why when someone is offended by someone else's comments, that instead of just blocking that person, the offended person wants to block that person from everyone else. I don't understand the psychology here. They aren't satisfied by just blocking that person from themselves. They want NO ONE else to hear or read the offending comments either. That just seems crazy to me. I don't want anyone else to decide for me what I should or shouldn't be able to read. 

    If you don't like what someone says, then ignore the individual, block them, or just go somewhere else. But why in the fuck do you want to block that comment for everyone else? That is insanity and insanely controlling. Let others argue and bicker if they want to. Butt the fuck out if you don't like it.

    PS, Kyleran is also right in that every heated argument is still a discussion or debate in some form or another. It will either play itself out and something fruitful will come out of it, or it won't. If it won't, no loss. They are just words. If something comes out of it, then that's great too. Either way, don't try to stop the conversation if you don't like it. Just go somewhere else.

    Oh and of course there are always a few exceptions (such as it's fine to disallow people from posting child porn, etc).

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    Originally posted by Jimmac

    Originally posted by Kyleran


    Originally posted by Distopia

    <>

    <>

    See, that's the problem, for free speech to be truly free you can't put any limits on it, you have to take the good with the bad and if someone says something that really offends you, best idea is to just put them on ignore, or not even read the thread to begin with.

    <>

     

    Exactly. I don't understand why when someone is offended by someone else's comments, that instead of just blocking that person, the offended person wants to block that person from everyone else. If you don't like it, then ignore the individual, block them, or just go somewhere else. But why in the fuck do you want to block that comment for everyone else? That is insanity and insanely controlling. Let others argue and bicker if they want to. Butt the fuck out if you don't like it.

    PS, Kyleran is also right in that every heated argument is still a discussion or debate in some form or another. It will either play itself out and something fruitful will come out of it, or it won't. If it won't, no loss. They are just words. If something comes out of it, then that's great too. Either way, don't try to stop the conversation if you don't like it. Just go somewhere else.

    Oh and of course there are always a few exceptions (such as it's fine to disallow people from posting child porn, etc).

    i would agree with you if there was not an industry built around arguing everywhere (IT IS CALLED LOBBYING)

  • JimmacJimmac Member UncommonPosts: 1,667

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    Originally posted by Jimmac


     
    <>

    i would agree with you if there was not an industry built around arguing everywhere (IT IS CALLED LOBBYING)

    Well the existence of such a big and influential lobbying industry in the US is certainly a disgusting problem. I'm not sure lobbying is so much about free speech and the right to argue though as it is about tossing money around. In what way does the existence of the lobbying industry cause you to disagree with what I said above?

    Or did I misunderstand which type of lobbying to which you were referring?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,195

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    See, that's the problem, for free speech to be truly free you can't put any limits on it, you have to take the good with the bad and if someone says something that really offends you, best idea is to just put them on ignore, or not even read the thread to begin with.

    I absolutely agree with that.

    Except, here on the forum, things that get argued really don't come under "Freedom of speech". And if someone DOES say something negative about the government or a political figure then they won't get thrown in jail.

    That's where the Freedom of speech comes in.

    but the reality is a person can't say anything they want to anyone they want without sometimes getting repercussions.

    You can't walk into your locla bank and tell the teller off without getting some sort of repercussions. You can tell your boss off but it's possible you might be fired. I say "it's possible" because then someone is going to post "I tell my boss off all the time and we scream at each all day". Yes, yes but that's between both parties and apparently tha'ts something they both agree to.

    I can insult a person in daily conversation and the cops aren't going to show up at my door. However, if I make a death threat or somethng really intense then it's possible that someone might take it seriously and there might be some "splainin' to do.

     

    On many forums you can't say everything  you want in any way you want. That's just life. There's a time and a place.

    So sure, go to your girlfriend's house, meet her 'nana and then tell that nana that her hairy face makes you sick. Then tell your girlfriend "it's ok, I have freedom of speech! She should just ignore me. Now how about that kiss...."

  • JimmacJimmac Member UncommonPosts: 1,667

    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Originally posted by Jimmac

    <>

    There hasn't been any conversation for months.

    Lot of soapboxing, some preaching, some Crusading.  But does it qualify as conversation, when the same guy says essentially the same thing in virtually every post he makes?

    The trolling is getting worse, the baiting as well.  I know the mods are worn out.  The personal attacks (in the wee hours of the morning) tend to be off the charts.  Early this morning the "Fresh Alt" brigade is out in force ripping on each other.

    Where's the conversation?  Just a bunch of people concentrating on pushing the extremes as far as they possibly can.

    WoW General is in better shape than this forum.

    I honestly think there are some good conversations about SWTOR that take place on these forums. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe you just don't see them, I don't know. Either way, reasonable minds could probably disagree about this. Even if I'm right that there are some good discussions on here, it is certainly true that there are plenty of "bad discussions." My only reply is that, in my opinion, if you personally think some thread or post or indivdual isn't worth replying to, then just don't. Block that asshole(s) and then continue on with the other civil people as politely and sanely as you can.

    There are plenty of very civil people on this site who want to have good conversations. Don't respond to the trolls. Don't respond to any post you think is a trolling post or bait. Ignore the people who use insults and personal attacks. Then bang, everyone who is left is a civil person worth conversing with.

    Also keep in mind that responding to trolls fuels their existence. Baiting is done for a reason. If people wouldn't take bait, then many of the fishermen would go away. The reason I don't want moderators to determine who is or isn't trolling is because different people will have different opinions on who is or isn't trolling, and I don't want some weary moderator who's just read a heated 375 pages of SWTOR v GW2 discussion to have to decide for me. If all the civil people can just decide for themselves, then the moderators won't be needed nearly as much.

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