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No macros? ok.. no reactive indicator? really?

I can deal and see why people don't want macros. Although I don't see issue with system like rifts macro but again it's not a huge deal to me. What does bug me is why there is no indicator for reactive abilities? No pop-up box, no glowing indicator nothing. This really doesn't make sense to me since pretty much every game released now comes with this feature in one way or another.

For me it takes so much out of combat because either A you miss the ability half the time cause you didn't know it was ready or B you spend way to much time watching your skill bar seeing if the ability is available.

Hate it or not this is one thing I liked about rifts macro system. Allowing less buttons you had to worry about allowed you to focus more on the action and be more aware of whats going on around you. But to not have either just seems ridiculous to me. To not even have something as simple as the border of the skill box glow when its ready is just ridiculous to me.

 

edit: Just wanted to add this goes hand in hand with a customizable UI. it's one of the biggest issues people had with this game during beta and to not allow people to make the UI fit there playstyle in a MMO released this late in the game just really needs to be addressed by bioware in my opinion

 

EDIT going to add three quotes from posters in this thread that help point out my reason for making the OP

FROM rhorn842

"Certain classes, specifically the Operative/Scoundrel AC, work off an ability that procs at different rates from different abilities. You then have a 10s buff that thatcks up to 2 times to activate 2-3 of your most important healing AND damage abilities. It's not immediately obvious when it procs and it's not immediately obvious you have the buff on by looking at your character. While it is possible to play the class as stands, it would definitely be easier if there was some more visible notification.

 

And it isnt necessary to add these features, but they would improve gameplay, and don't need any major game overhaul changes. Something like this I would hope to be added in the first 1-2 months after launch."

and from Draemos

 "There are procs in this game that are randomly applied that have significant affects on abilities. Theses aren't just binary can't or can use them procs. As an example, for Assassins, exploit weakness is a random proc on melee damage that reduces the energy requirements of Maul (backstab) by 50%, as well as adds an armor bypass aspect to the skill. Using Maul outside of exploit weakness is inefficient, but the game in no ways prevents me from using it(nor should it). What this results in is me hawking my buff bar looking for that extremely small little buff icon every 10 seconds to see when that skill procs.

 

This is sloppy game design, it's not fun and it detracts away from the actual battle. Is it really too much to ask for some sort of animation or sound affect on my character? It doesn't have to be big or flashy, but something so I don't have to stare at a damn buff bar"

from sbarra1x

"Yeah I do understand that perspective perfectly fine, but when it comes down to it, I ask myself “what is more important, lower the skill cap of the game by a small % and make it accessible for many more people, potential customers at that, or leave it as it is, making it much harder for people with inherit disadvantages to be competitive?”  What’s the trade off? It’s all about perspective and priority. I personally would rather the game be more accessible. That gap between the average player and the “pro” player would be lowered somewhat as a by-product of this, but which is really more important? The obvious answer would be the latter for some, and the former for others, but broadly speaking which is more valid? Or better put, which is less trivial? I think it’s pretty clear when you look at it from a non-bias standpoint. Basically the affect that such a change would have on the “skill disparity” of the average player would not be too noticeable, but the affect it could have on accessibility could potentially be quite healthy indeed."

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Comments

  • LittlebombLittlebomb Member Posts: 152

    Originally posted by sanosukex

    I can deal and see why people don't want macros. Although I don't see issue with system like rifts macro but again it's not a huge deal to me. What does bug me is why there is no indicator for reactive abilities? No pop-up box, no glowing indicator nothing. This really doesn't make sense to me since pretty much every game released now comes with this feature in one way or another.

    For me it takes so much out of combat because either A you miss the ability half the time cause you didn't know it was ready or B you spend way to much time watching your skill bar seeing if the ability is available.

    Hate it or not this is one thing I liked about rifts macro system. Allowing less buttons you had to worry about allowed you to focus more on the action and be more aware of whats going on around you. But to not have either just seems ridiculous to me. To not even have something as simple as the border of the skill box glow when its ready is just ridiculous to me.

    I totally agree.

     

    I'm also amazed they aren't releasing with Dual Speccing. 

    If I hit 50 and don't have dual speccing within a month I'll probably just quit. I'm not going to a trainer and redoing my hotbars because I want to pvp for 30 minutes before a raid.

    Swtor's has actually made me appreciate RIFT alot more.

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,704

    I don't want macros, but I hope they do improve on the combat feel of abilities, and a little bit more responsivness out of the ui for combat....I really dislike the way it is set up. 

     

  • devontedevonte Member UncommonPosts: 39

    I can't believe they didn't make rift 2.0 in space...how dare they

     

    I used to tank or heal instances in rift just by spamming 11111111 or 222222222....wasn't fun

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    feel better?

    not till someone can give me a logical explaination as to why they would not include something like this..:P

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by devonte

    I can't believe they didn't make rift 2.0 in space...how dare they

    who said anything about wanting rift? all I want is some indicator as to when reaction abiltiies are usuable like pretty much every other MMO released nowadays

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Member Posts: 1,277


    Originally posted by sanosukex

    Originally posted by DannyGlover
    feel better?
    not till someone can give me a logical explaination as to why they would not include something like this..:P

    I'm sorry you're so unhappy. Get well soon :)

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    Ability indicators would be pretty cool. Reactive ability indicators would be cool too. Except I would prefer to have combat systems work with minimal UI watching. Instead of watching my button bar or popup indicators, I want to watch my character and what's happening in the environment.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Member UncommonPosts: 1,009

    Wow, man.  I feel your pain.  I mean, actually having to pay attention to things.  The horror.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Ability indicators would be pretty cool. Reactive ability indicators would be cool too. Except I would prefer to have combat systems work with minimal UI watching. Instead of watching my button bar or popup indicators, I want to watch my character and what's happening in the environment.

    exactly but with the current system to keep your reactive or cooldown abilities used in a efficient manner especially in PVP you are required to almost stare at your hotbar

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,744

    I find that my usefulness to the topic is the same as adding to a topic that has been previously covered in this forum MULTIPLE times.  In fact, the most recent was the post yesterday.  Almost the same topic VERBATIM.  Thank you for contributing your post, I will contribute mine.

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by Ikeda

    I find that my usefulness to the topic is the same as adding to a topic that has been previously covered in this forum MULTIPLE times.  In fact, the most recent was the post yesterday.  Almost the same topic VERBATIM.  Thank you for contributing your post, I will contribute mine.

    I read a few topics on macros but not on reactive indicators. This thread is about reactive indicators not macros

  • JyiigaJyiiga Member UncommonPosts: 1,133

    Dual spec'ing gets brought up every other thread. Then every other thread I get to remind people about the polls on the official forums. More people were AGAINST dual spec in those polls. So regardless if they add it or not down the road.. Most of us do not want that feature.

  • demarc01demarc01 Member UncommonPosts: 429

    I agree with you OP.

     

    Played a JK in beta and it was kinda irritating always watching for the reactionary style. Just an indicator of some kinda would be nice. What I see myself doing is macroing that shit to a repeating button and ignoring it since I want to actually enjoy the game and not spend my time looking at the hotbars.

    An indicator would deffinatly be better since I'd be able to tactically use the reactionary (in PvP for example) rather than just have it auto fire.

    Hoping this is on thier to-do list.




  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by jdlamson75

    Wow, man.  I feel your pain.  I mean, actually having to pay attention to things.  The horror.

    hope you enjoy it at 50 with dozens of abilties and no way to tell when you reactives are ready other than spamming the key hoping they are available or stare at your hotbar.. loads of fun there

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Dual spec'ing gets brought up every other thread. Then every other thread I get to remind people about the polls on the official forums. More people were AGAINST dual spec in those polls. So regardless if they add it or not down the road.. Most of us do not want that feature.

    this thread has nothing to do with dual spec.. yea someone brought it up but has nothing to do with OP

  • demarc01demarc01 Member UncommonPosts: 429

    Originally posted by Jyiiga

    Dual spec'ing gets brought up every other thread. Then every other thread I get to remind people about the polls on the official forums. More people were AGAINST dual spec in those polls. So regardless if they add it or not down the road.. Most of us do not want that feature.

    Most people (myself included) were against duel AC spec's. I NEVER think that should be an options. However duel talent spec's with-in an AC were not as unpopular.

    Helps if people clarify what they mean when they say duel spec. If we concider AC's to be classes and not spec lines (Which I believe is Biowares intention) then duel spec obviously means talents only. Duel class would be the appropriate term for an AC respec.




  • Agnostic42Agnostic42 Member UncommonPosts: 405

    I hate macro systems in games, always have. Rifts macro system was by far one of the worst. Macro systems reward lazy players. If someone cannot be bothered with paying attention I have no sympathy for them.

    I know this is a heated debate currently with SW:TOR, but the fact that they do not have these makes me want the game even more.

    Once they allow macro's that helps open the door to flavor of the month classes and constant rerolling of characters when all they have to do is copy/paste a preset macro made by some random joker.

    Maybe it's because of my early EQ days, you couyld tell when someone was an Ebayer the second you invited them to group because they had no knowledge of their character.

    Cleric: Why did we wipe?

    Warrior: The puller pulled too many mobs? 3?

    Monk: Wasnt a problem with the old enchanter... You need to mez adds chanter! Cant single every time!

    Enchanter: Chanters can mez????

    /groupremove Enchanter

     

    Not saying people who use macro's purchase their characters on Ebay, but if you find two equal skill players and both playing  the same class, one uses macro's and the other doesn't. The one with macro's will do more DPS, at least by a little, but the one without macro's will be able to CC, heal, tank and watch for adds while dps'ing/tanking/healing. I want the one with versatility in my group, not the robot programmed to cycle through commands.

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,744

    I can agree with reactive indicators but I can almost gurantee the topic will be hijacked by dual speccers and macro'rs.  I think reactive indicators are a good inclusion but they have a LOT of complications associated with them.  That being said, TOR isn't really next-gen.  It's current gen with a LOT of polish.

    I think that the following games with more dynamic inclusions will be "next gen" and will be more in line with what you're looking for.  It doesn't negate that this could/should be a decent game in its own right and will serve to further MMOs in general.

  • JyiigaJyiiga Member UncommonPosts: 1,133

    I remember using riposte on a rogue in WOW before the game was filled with a bazillion mods and macros.

    It is kinda funny how crippled and useless players can be without all these aids.  -shrug-

     

     

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by Ikeda

    I can agree with reactive indicators but I can almost gurantee the topic will be hijacked by dual speccers and macro'rs.  I think reactive indicators are a good inclusion but they have a LOT of complications associated with them.  That being said, TOR isn't really next-gen.  It's current gen with a LOT of polish.

    I think that the following games with more dynamic inclusions will be "next gen" and will be more in line with what you're looking for.  It doesn't negate that this could/should be a decent game in its own right and will serve to further MMOs in general.

    what are the complications with adding a glowing border around the reactive skill when its avaialble for use? This sort of feature is last gen let alone this gen..

    I could even see past not having rifts or wows "pop up" indicator but at least something to say hey this reactive ability can be used would be nice

  • zephar123zephar123 Member Posts: 70

    Originally posted by agnostic4eve

    I hate macro systems in games, always have. Rifts macro system was by far one of the worst. Macro systems reward lazy players. If someone cannot be bothered with paying attention I have no sympathy for them.

    I know this is a heated debate currently with SW:TOR, but the fact that they do not have these makes me want the game even more.

    Once they allow macro's that helps open the door to flavor of the month classes and constant rerolling of characters when all they have to do is copy/paste a preset macro made by some random joker.

    Maybe it's because of my early EQ days, you couyld tell when someone was an Ebayer the second you invited them to group because they had no knowledge of their character.

    Cleric: Why did we wipe?

    Warrior: The puller pulled too many mobs? 3?

    Monk: Wasnt a problem with the old enchanter... You need to mez adds chanter! Cant single every time!

    Enchanter: Chanters can mez????

    /groupremove Enchanter

     

    Not saying people who use macro's purchase their characters on Ebay, but if you find two equal skill players and both playing  the same class, one uses macro's and the other doesn't. The one with macro's will do more DPS, at least by a little, but the one without macro's will be able to CC, heal, tank and watch for adds while dps'ing/tanking/healing. I want the one with versatility in my group, not the robot programmed to cycle through commands.

    Toally agree with you.

  • WolfHaartWolfHaart Member UncommonPosts: 216

    Originally posted by zephar123

    Originally posted by agnostic4eve

    I hate macro systems in games, always have. Rifts macro system was by far one of the worst. Macro systems reward lazy players. If someone cannot be bothered with paying attention I have no sympathy for them.

    I know this is a heated debate currently with SW:TOR, but the fact that they do not have these makes me want the game even more.

    Once they allow macro's that helps open the door to flavor of the month classes and constant rerolling of characters when all they have to do is copy/paste a preset macro made by some random joker.

    Maybe it's because of my early EQ days, you couyld tell when someone was an Ebayer the second you invited them to group because they had no knowledge of their character.

    Cleric: Why did we wipe?

    Warrior: The puller pulled too many mobs? 3?

    Monk: Wasnt a problem with the old enchanter... You need to mez adds chanter! Cant single every time!

    Enchanter: Chanters can mez????

    /groupremove Enchanter

     

    Not saying people who use macro's purchase their characters on Ebay, but if you find two equal skill players and both playing  the same class, one uses macro's and the other doesn't. The one with macro's will do more DPS, at least by a little, but the one without macro's will be able to CC, heal, tank and watch for adds while dps'ing/tanking/healing. I want the one with versatility in my group, not the robot programmed to cycle through commands.

    Toally agree with you.

    +1

     

    Besides, whats the fun playing a game if you dont have to work a little? I enjoy a challange. But now a days it seems everything is built for 5 year olds.

  • BlasphimBlasphim Member UncommonPosts: 354

    There are indicators, did you play the game?  if you cannot use an ability till a proc happens, it's greyed, when you can use it...it lights up, indication enough?  or did you want it to play bells and give flashy widgits?

  • LittlebombLittlebomb Member Posts: 152

    "I can't believe they didn't make rift 2.0 in space...how dare they

     

    I used to tank or heal instances in rift just by spamming 11111111 or 222222222....wasn't fun"

     

     

     

     

    such a liar. I played Rift through hammerknell. I had R8 pvp gear and you're telling me you spammed one button to heal?

     

    Such a liar. The only class that could do it's job with a single macro was warrior and that isnt going to work for a tank.

     

    Either you're a liar or a bad player either way you're bad.

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,744

    Originally posted by Saxx0n

     

    Hah!  I see what you did there.  Hilarious.  Yea....

    No seriously, I'm very much a middle of the road kinda person.  This game should be good.  I don't think great.  I think it'll be a good 4 month play or so to cover everything and then people will move on.  I don't know that there is enough meat to take up more time.  I feel the same way about Rift.  They did so much RIGHT but they didn't hold my attention more than a month or two.

    Back to current discussion,

    I think that if you had reactive skills, you would/should animate them.  When you animate them, you have to make sue you animate each different reaction otherwise people would claim sprites weren't animated enough.  It's the "if you give a mouse a cookie" syndrome.

     

    Edit:  I would also like to point out, Rift's macro system was changed in beta because people were LITERALLY macro'ing 30 skills to 1 key.  They changed it to limit that.  I don't know what the current state is.

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